Are you still working with this project?

[matubaum]

Hi, I wanna know What happened with this project. Are you still
working on it?? Did you decided to start again with Symfony2??

[Alexandru-Emil Lupu]

Hello!
we have not started yet a sf2 version ... but i think that i will start one  in the next weeks.
For the moment i just wait for symfony to become more stable, and maybe to make some time to put toghether some specs, before going open source.

Alecs

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:08 AM, matubaum <matiasmm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, I wanna know What happened with this project. Are you still
working on it?? Did you decided to start again with Symfony2??

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Have a nice day!

Alecs
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P.S. If you are on a list, please don't contact me privately, unless i have allowed to. Further messages will be ignored.

There are no cannibals alive! I have ate the last one yesterday ... 
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[Richard Shank]

There is some ecommerce effort on Symfony2.

The main collection right now is
https://github.com/docteurklein/Symfony2-e-commerce. There is also a
payment bundle https://github.com/schmittjoh/PaymentBundle with a
paypal Bundle to accompany it
https://github.com/schmittjoh/PayPalPaymentBundle I will be releasing
a Monetary and Currency Bundle late next week that will work with work
with both projects.

[Alexandru-Emil Lupu]

Well.
Then would be nice to have a discussion, maybe we would unify the both projects in just one. Being open source i think no one has the time to make the project fast from scratch.
I think that instead of having 2-3  symfony 2 based ecommerce solutions, we could have just one, much better and much faster than working each of us on one version.

Let's try to put toghether some documentation, and a strategy. We (Me and Andreas) could come up with a vps server (The one where sfshop1 is) where to make the daily builds for the project (i hope you have tests for them).

On the server is allready configured a Redmine (with git module) / Php 5.3.2 /  Mysql , and it won't be hard to add a phpUnit and cron to run the tests.

A

[Richard Shank]

I would absolutely agree that we should combine efforts. I will make
some time this week to put together some better documentation to
describe what vision I have for an ecommerce project so you can see my
perspective and give some feedback. I'm not stuck on any particular
way of doing this. My main thing is having Bundles that can work
independently and inter-dependently, somewhat in the way the Symfony
CMF project http://cmf.symfony-project.org/ is being designed. All of
the components are in place so you can build any type of ecommerce
system you need.

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 2:15 AM, Alexandru-Emil Lupu

[Alexandru-Emil Lupu]

True, and i agree with that.
however, i have saw during the time, that any shop project would be breakable in just fewer parts due to the big interdependency between pages. What i have found is:

- A "catalog" Bundle that would manage the "product" ( product details / product listing / product search ) the "category" ( category page )
- A "complete" Bundle that would manage up the taxes ( even though this could work in catalog bundle), addressbook, basket & wishlist, order, basic delivery, basic payment, invoicing functionalities.
- Some Bundles that manage specific Payment and Delivery functionality. (ie. PaypalBundle, UpsBundle etc)
- An "extended" Bundle that would manage things like member Authentication, Account management and other things

Here is why i think we could have only those types of bundles, and why i would not recommend more:

- The catalog bundle would be the basic Bundle that would handle the product and the categories. This would allow the user to easily create a "presentation"  / "catalog" website without being mandatory to install delivery and other modules. Also the catalog and shop functionality is based on the product and category interdependency, meaning the User Story would be something like: 
An user hits your homepage, browses the categories, where he can see a lot of products, to which he can see the details. But also he could easily return to the category listing.

- The complete bundle is the advanced part of the shop. If you would install this Bundle you could gain ecommerce capabilities over your catalog. I was saying upper that this bundle should have all the things embeded, because you cannot have a ecommerce if you do not have all the upper modules i have mentioned. I have not seen yet any e-commerce platform to have only the billing module, but no delivery. Also, the billing and the delivery is done based on a order, and the order itself is based on a basket. Also, the delivery usually is done after the payment confirmation (but not always). I think the addressbook is needed here because the billing and delivery has to be done on an address.
 
- I skip the Payment and Delivery explanation because is obvious

- During the development we might see that we need some specific pages like "register" / "forgot password" or any other page that is complementary to the website process. This is why i would let this one separate, because it can be easily externalized to other projects

I have also a lot of things in my mind but i dunno how i will handle them when i will implement it. One of the ideas would be the possibility to allow the site owners to create / define their own type of products (take the case of an online computer shop that needs to sell from CD-ROM, Monitors, etc). Based on the same example, would be nice to allow owners to setup their own filters, but, here would be a problem as well ... (i would elaborate in a future email). I know that some of you have allready thought that would be suitable for mongoDb, but personally, i would not keep those types of information in mongo. It would be suitable for EAV db model, but this is a SQL antipattern.


Let's start down the documentation somewhere, and put all the ideas together.

Alecs

[Richard Shank]

I think by defining good interfaces, implementation can be handled in
what ever way. Personally, as I'm sure you've gathered, I would never
use a relational db for products/inventory. However, if you have an
interface that is agnostic, I can have my MongoDB products, you have
your relational based and someone else can have a CouchDB
implementation.

But beyond just that, I think by having a ProductBundle, it makes it
have any number of products and how that is implemented can be a very
personal choice. I'm talking with someone right now who would like to
see this in more of an SAP type environment (a product could be an
part in inventory that could get sold to a distributor or somewhere
internal to the company), which is very different from my current need
of selling digital products, or selling a seat for an event or the
obvious physical widget. However, with a common interface, you could
have a common way of dealing with any of products and you could have
an Amazon like store that sells any type of product.

For example in your CatelogBundle, your CatalogInterface would have a
dependency on the ProductInterface and both the CatalogInterface and
ProductInterface would have a depenceny on a CategoryInteface. By
using Dependency Injection you can configure which Product and
Category implementation you want to use in your CatalogBundle. If you
wanted to package three of those Models in your Bundle you could, but
having the flexibility to configure these in from independent an
ProductBundle and CategoryBundle is very powerful. Of course, with a
set CatalogInterface you could have different implementations of a
Catalog.

Basically, I see it as anything that is a component in the ecommerce
system, put a good interface on it, then you open the door for people
to cherry pick what they need. This is what happened on the
PaymentBundle. I saw Johannes was working on a PaymentBundle,
approached him about making it work with a larger system. I don't
know what he needs it for, doesn't matter, we can build an Auth.net or
Amazon Payment Bundle on top of it. He based his interface of
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wchelp/v6r0m0/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.commerce.api.doc/overview-summary.html
which I have started looking at to put things together. The interface
for the payment branch
https://github.com/IamPersistent/Symfony2-e-commerce/tree/payment I
am putting together is based on what I found here.

I'm thinking right now, that you have to have some type of workflow
listener/handler to handle the various steps involved in the commerce
experience. This would facilitate the various steps and rules that
you have for your specific situation. That is part of what I have
been working toward on my fork with the Order branch.

Much of this has been evolving by talking to various people so I'm
very open on all of this. I just want a system flexible enough that I
can use parts of it, literally, for any situation that come up.

I haven't talked to Florian
http://github.com/docteurklein/Symfony2-e-commerce about this yet, but
I would like to see the bundles pulled out of the main
Symfony2-e-commerce site and moved into individual bundles that are
submodules in the Symfony2-e-commerce system. I think this would help
with developers being able to implement the bigger picture. But
really the biggest thing right now is the interfaces that can work
between all of the various components in the system.

Richard

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 3:51 AM, Alexandru-Emil Lupu

[Florian Klein]

Hi,

I totally agree with what Richard said.

By using well interfaced components and DependencyInjection, we can build some flexible solution, as you said by permitting easy integration of different types of products ( virtual, downloadable, physical, ... ).

The persitence of data is hidden behind adapters, which lets the bundle author the liberty to choose between noSQL/RDBM's solutions (as in DoctrineUserBundle).

One of the things I planned to do is to move the ECommerce Bundles in submodules, as you said, but for convenience reasons ( it's easier to keep things synchronised ), I keep them in the main project for the moment.

I'm currently working on the ProductBundle ( it could be renamed to CatalogBundle, but here is not the problem ).

I'm following what you (IamPersistent) are doing on the order branch, and I'm planning to wrap Product management in an agnostic manner, if it is useful for better bundle interoperability.

And finally, (I repeat what IamPersistent and I discussed in private), I also think it's better to concentrate our efforts on base Bundles, and then try to use them to create a final, fully integrated solution). It's maybe not the best solution to think of lost passwords and registration stuff, this stuff is for final application integration.

Florian.

2010/12/12 Richard Shank <iamper...@gmail.com>

[Florian]

Ha, forgot to mention the available tools to facilitate discussion about this project:

https://github.com/docteurklein/Symfony2-e-commerce/issues : please fill in tickets in order to have a list of wanted features, bugs, ...

https://github.com/docteurklein/Symfony2-e-commerce/wiki the wiki is forkable and everybody can write for it.

github itself permits to comment on commits.

there is a continous integartion server http://ks358168.kimsufi.com:8080/ (hudson)

[Alexandru-Emil Lupu]

Hello!
Is it possible that tonight to get some people on sfshop channel, on freenode in order to setup some things regarding the project ?

Mainly it would be nice to have on all the people that have developed something for a e-commerce project  wrote on sf2, or want to get involved in this action.If we see how many we are and how many of us have a codebase or requirements, we could try to setup a development road for this project ... and at the end to have an application that would satisfy most of the needs for  an ecommerce project.

I am GMT + 2, and tonight i will be online on that channel 'till around 22 GMT + 0 (4 hours)

Alecs

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[Richard Shank]

Sorry, I couldn't get on in time. I'm staying in the #sfshop channel now

Richard

[Florian]

I'll be present on #sfshop on freenode today.

Le 14/12/2010 01:04, Richard Shank a �crit :