What gear for fixed gear brevets?

[Reed Kennedy]

I've seen a few SFR members ride a brevet on a fixed gear and have been quite impressed each time. A fellow tall person has offered to trade me a fixed gear frameset, and now I'm wondering if I might be able to finish one of the easier 200ks on a fixed gear myself. Worth a shot!

Anyone with experience have a gear to recommend? The last time I rode fixed was a decade ago when I was quite out of shape and only riding to commute. Rather than blindly using the same ratio I'm hoping to learn from those who have done more serious riding.

Pictures of the frame in question for the curious:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26383479@N04/sets/72157659915755909/

Best,

Reed

[Eric Larsen]

72”

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[Rob Hawks]

While Eric is a fellow tall person to Reed, perhaps a little reasoning behind the choice would help everyone following this thread?

Eric's, and almost certainly others will be different than mine:

On the few single speed rides I've done with fixed gear riders I noticed how our very slightly different gearing affected our group pacing. I was using a 48x18 on 28mm 700c tires which was barely above 71". The other riders had slightly higher gear ratios.

My choice of gearing however was actually dictated by the frame and the crankset I bought. My single speed bike is/was my main commute bike, and is a regular road frame with long horizontal drop outs, not track fork ends and I also have fenders on the bike. And on top of that the crankset I bought came with a 48 tooth ring and cheapness factored in and I didn't change the chain ring in order to fuss with the ratio. I suspect that with a true fixed gear frame one would have way more flexibility than I had. 

Wheel			Chainring	Cog
Rim Size	28inch    (635mm) 27inch    (630mm) 700c/29er (622mm) 650b/27.5 (584mm) 650c      (571mm) 26inch (559mm-mtb) 24inch (547mm-S5) 24inch (540mm-E6) 24inch (520mm-Terry) 24inch (507mm-MTB/BMX) 20inch (451mm-Recumbent) 20inch (419mm-Schwinn) 20inch (406mm-BMX/Recumb) 17inch (369mm) 16inch (349mm-Brompton)	min:	20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75	8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60
Tire Size:	20mm 23 25 26 27 28 30 32 35 37 38 40 42 44 45 50 56 1.00inch 1.25 1.35 1.40 1.50 1.75 1.90 1.95 2.00 2.10 2.125 2.20 2.25 2.30 2.35 2.40 2.50 2.60 2.75 2.80 3.00 3.80 4.00 4.25 4.50 4.60 4.70 4.80 4.90	max:	20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75	8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60

Gear Inches for this wheel in these gears

RingCog	48	Ring  Cog
18	71.27	18

Colors group similar values. 80+ is green, 50ish-80, blue, and below 50, red.

[Ely]

I did a few 200k's with 46x18 or 19 around 67" this is when i worked at the top of nob hill and needed help. I tried 46x16 but couldnt turn over the gears on climbs. 

[Robert Sexton]

I've got my fixed-gear rando bike set up for a nice cadence (for me) at 17-18mph.   

Thats 90 rpm with a 39x16 = 17.5mph

I have a slightly larger cog on the other side so I can flip it over if the climbing gets too hard.

http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence

- Robert

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[Eric Norris]

Reed:

Gear choice is going to be greatly affected by the terrain and your ability to push the pedals. That being said, when I rode an entire brevet series and PBP in 2007, I was pushing a 74-inch gear.

--Eric N

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[Drew Carlson]

Fixies are fun! I think there are many training benefits, too.  I enjoy my fixie for shorter rides in rolling terrain, to take advantage of the "momentum effect," but I'll likely never do an SR series on a fixed-gear bike again.  A 200K is my limit for fun on a fixed-gear bike, and populaires are even better.   

My takeaway from learning to ride a fixed-gear bike:  Start with an easier gear, and work toward a harder gear.  Basically, the "right" gear for hilly terrain is the one you can barely crank on whatever grade is steepest, and still complete the ride.  

I started at 68 gear inches, and quickly moved up to 71.  While that worked fine for many rides, the routes with sustained fast downhills are toughest for me, so I've experimented with a bigger gear.  I've found I can ride a bigger gear than I thought, and that makes downhills (and flats if you're not a fast spinner) much better.  I met a guy (Brandon?) on the DBC 600K several years ago who was riding 84 gear inches on that ride, and many other experienced fixie riders have indicated to me that bigger gears work best for longer rides.  I'm currently at 81 gear inches, but I think it's too big for me, so I'm planning to dial back to something in the mid-70s.  

--

Drew

[Metin Uz]

Reed,

First, I think that's a very nice looking frame. You're not likely to see another one in your size, the flip side being it will be hard to get rid of if you decide fixed gear is not for you.

Back to the question at hand: ask 3 riders what's ideal fixed gearing, and you will likely get 4 answers... I have used between 68 and 81 inches on different brevets, and find 70 to 72 inches as the most versatile gear for me. You are also not limited to a single gearing. I did a 1200K with 15K of climbing on the first day, and pancake flat on the third day, where I switched between 68 and 76 inches.

I think the general rule is: if you want to ride fast, pick the largest gear you can turn on the steepest climb. If you just want to have a good time, pick a compromise gear that won't be too hard on the climbs, but may require to brake often on descents. I had my fastest time on a brevet when I accidentally rode 49x16 (81 inches) when I thought I was riding 49x17 (76 inches). Fortunately this was on Healdsburg - Napa 200k with moderate grades.

--Metin

[Reed Kennedy]

Thanks for the thoughts and advice folks! I know all this is highly personal, but I got exactly what I wanted: A decent idea of the gears fairly strong riders use on local terrain. That'll give me a nice place to start.

I used to use a 69 inch gear for around town, and it sounds like that's more or less in the hunt. For this next bike I'm planning to stick an old 170mm Campy road crank on there with a 42 tooth chainring simply because I have it laying around. I was able to lay hands on a Surly Dingle cog with 18 and 16 tooth cogs, so I'll use that for starters. I figure the 42x16 will give me a nice mainstream 70 inch gear to start with, and the 42x18 will give me a stump-pulling 63 inch gear to bail to or ride trails on if I decide to do that fixed again.

Once I've gotten a feel for it I'm looking forward to pulling the Dingle off and having it be a "real" fixed gear, but I'll feel better having a backup plan while I get started. And I like the idea of working toward higher gearing. 42x15 would give me a 75 incher. Might be worth a shot after a while!

Best,

Reed

[Rob Hawks]

>  I'm planning to stick an old 170mm Campy road crank on there  

If you are talking about the NR cranks, you might rather spend a little money and get a new crank instead. The old campy cranks have a history of breaking, and I know that from experience. Sugino makes an ok one and you can find those for ~$100+-. Those come with a 48 tooth ring. (beware of online 'stores' that offer them for huge discounts! There were scam stores that offered popular items and unbelievable prices.) 

rob

[Eric Larsen]

Reed et al,

I have a bunch of 3/32 cogs I don’t use if you want to try different combinations - let me know.

Metin - Vinnie says if you want to ride fast, ride alone; if you want to ride far, ride with friends.

e

[Reed Kennedy]

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 6:49 AM Rob Hawks <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

>  I'm planning to stick an old 170mm Campy road crank on there  

If you are talking about the NR cranks, you might rather spend a little money and get a new crank instead. The old campy cranks have a history of breaking, and I know that from experience. Sugino makes an ok one and you can find those for ~$100+-. Those come with a 48 tooth ring. (beware of online 'stores' that offer them for huge discounts! There were scam stores that offered popular items and unbelievable prices.) 

It's a Triomphe, I belive? This one:

I don't think they have the stress riser that lead to problems with the earlier Campagnolo cranks. Can anyone confirm? I've always had a strange affection for this particular crank, so I'm hoping to get to use it on this build. (And yes, I promise to invest in a set of crank bolts.)

It'd look cooler with a bigger ring, but I'm willing to suffer that particular indignity. 

Reed

 

[Metin Uz]

On Friday, November 9, 2018 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-8, Eric Larsen wrote:

Metin - Vinnie says if you want to ride fast, ride alone; if you want to ride far, ride with friends.

Ha!  When I ride fixed, my friends ride faster so I ride slow and alone!

Reed - I think those cranks are fine, but they have a weird BCD so you can't find replacement chainrings. Once you know the gearing you like, you will probably like a chainring in the 48t range so you can make finer adjustments. With a 42t chainring, there will be a bigger change going from 15t to 16t cog, for instance.

--Metin

[Eric Larsen]

...With a 42t chainring, there will be a bigger change going from 15t to 16t cog, for instance...

Ya, and you'll wear through narrow chains and chainrings, but it's a place to start.

[Eric Norris]

Reed:

Campagnolo’s classic “Nuovo Record” and “Record” cranksets had a design that included a very thin “web” where the drive side arm met the spider. That very thin area could crack, and the crack would then propagate into the thicker part of the arm/spider junction. A common fix was to take a small file and remove the very thin area.

FWIW, I’ve broken one Campy NR crankset, but in that case the non-drive crankarm broke in two right in the middle. I’ve never had a classic Campy crankset fail as described above.

P.S. The last versions of the classic Record crankset, which had flatter crankarms and a laser-etched logo, also increased the thickness of the web area. They are reputed to be stronger than the earlier versions.

--Eric N

[Reed Kennedy]

Another question, this time for folks who ride both fixed and multi-speed:

Do you use the same fit for your fixed gears and derailleur-equipped bikes? Or do you find that some sort of saddle setback, bar height, reach, or other change is helpful on one or the other?

Best,

Reed

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:00 AM Reed Kennedy <re...@notfine.com> wrote:

[Jon Spangler]

Reed, Metin, and all,

As a committed gear-changing,stump-pulling-triple-crank user, I think *all* of you randonneur-on-a-fixie riders are 

more than a little crazy, myself… ;-)

I would like to try a single speed for riding on the flats some day. but cannot imagine doing 25 miles with a single gear,

much less 200K or more. (At least my knees sure can’t…) ;-)

More power to you all if you can, though…

Reed, I may have a new 1/8-inch Miche track crank (130 or 135mm BCD) available for cheap if you are interested…

Jon Spangler

Alameda, CA 94501

Jon Spangler
Writer/editor
Linda Hudson Writing
Member, BART Bicycle Advisory Task Force

League Cycling Instructor #3175
TEL  510-864-2144
CEL 510-846-5356
goldco...@gmail.com
www.LindaHudsonWriting.net 
www.linkedin.com/in/jonmspangler

[Mark]

I rode a 76" gear (46x16) on several 200K brevets and regular training rides  SF-PRS and back. Now, being a number of years older, I'm at 72 now (44x16) on the road, which is a bit bigger than the 70 inches a lot of people seen to like. For commuting and tooling around I ride 44x18, but I do find that too small for road riding. Regarding frames, I like the road geometry on my Wabi Lightning SE, definitely more comfortable that the more vertical set-up on my first fixie. 

Mark

[Mark Eastman]

Hi Metin,

Thanks for sharing your fixed gear tips. I have often wondered how you guys do brevets on fixed gear, awesome. I commute on a single speed with 48x17 that works well. But don't like switching back and forth between fixed and freewheel so have stuck with freewheel.
Best,
Mark

[Zach Morvant]

When I did long distance fixie things (ALC, a 200k here and there, Death Ride) I had the bike set up almost identically to my road bike fit.

For a Death Ride-type of ride (where you expect to climb for a long time, then descend for a long time) I had a double fixed/fixed hub. I ran 46x19 for the climbs, stopped, flipped the wheel, and descended in 46x15. Made the descent a bit more enjoyable. It's important, of course, to make sure your chain length works with your chosen gear range. :)

Even if you're not doing something as dramatic terrain-wise, having a "bailout" gear with another tooth or two isn't a bad idea. (I.e. if you got tired of pushing a 46x17 on a long day, which was a favored gear of mine, you could flip to a 46x18).

[j...@bitingduckpress.com]

I'm a Southern California fixie rider, and so I usually run a 49/17 or 48/17 for everything, including the 508, Heartbreak Double, etc.

This gear is a bit on the big side for Northern California, which tends to have shorter but steeper climbs and more seriously steep pitches. Not that I change it when I'm up there, but I always regret not changing it, lol.

If a ride is dead flat I'll do a 48/16.

Basically it should suck both up and down equally.