Chris McCormack: Embrace The Suck

[G B]

Friday reads. 

Great article, IMO also applicable to randonneuring (or any endurance event).

Chris McCormack: Embrace The Suck
http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/05/training/chris-mccormack-embrace-the-suck_76419

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iGB

[Kellie Stapleton]

What would be great here is for veterans to share their strategies with us newbies. How do they embrace the suck?

[Rob Hawks]

I'm certainly not the most veteran, nor the most successful randonneur. That said, here is my strategy. (No offence Gintautas, but ...) Ignore 'advice' from blog postings such as this one and avoid 'the suck' as best as one can. The latter may be quite easy and simple.

The author of the blog posting is, as I understand it, a tri-athelete. Drawing useful parallels between 'tri' events and randonneuring is tricky. Both niche sports select their bicycles with purpose in mind and I would venture to say that many randonneurs would suffer trying to use a Tri bike for randonneuring and to maybe even the same degree the opposite would be true as well. The non-interchangeability doesn't end there. (true, most of the bikes used by the fastest randonneurs are not completely like those used by less speedy randonneurs, but I would think there is more in common there than between randonneuring and triathlon bikes.)

The main topic of the blog posting is 'the suck', which I take to mean a state where one is performing *well* below par and enjoyment at that moment of the activity may be non-existent. Why would you expect that this state would be common in randonneuring? The author was describing an experience where he essentially changed the game he was playing, going for short course events to Ironman events. I would not fault a reader for inferring that the author was suggesting it was the distance, and not him that was the cause. At that point he had no previous experience with the longer events. Perhaps his training was not much more than 'more of the same' of what he used to prepare for short course tri events. Is that a recipe for success? Is what ever the author used to prepare for longer events a recipe for success? I would suggest maybe not given what happened to him.

If you believe that experiencing 'the suck' is inevitable. then maybe you made the wrong choice picking randonneuring if that is where you went to find it.

rob hawks

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[C. Duque]

What I got from the article is something very similar to what I do when I'm bonking or cooked or whatever one calls that; the author just used Suck as his way of describing a state of mind and body. I often talk to the boddy when it does not want to cooperate with what I want to do. Most of the time I laugh and I allow the bonk to be part of the moment, not the enemy, just slow down or stop if needed, regroup and continue. I'm not saying I enjoy it but is definitively there waiting to sneak if I make mistakes or bad choices in preparation or during the ride.

IMO any sport has the potential for "the suck", bonking or whatever way you want to describe what happens to you when you reach a limit. I actually enjoy finding my limits and then when I think there is no way I can get out of it, most of the time I find a way. If one participates in randonneuring, triathlons or any other endurance sport the bonk, suck or whatever is always a very strong possibility. I embrace it when it visits me. 

Carlos

[Rob Hawks]

Carlos,

I'd argue strongly that what you describe you are doing is avoiding 'the suck', as I was suggesting from the outset of my post. By the author's own description, he dove head first into it. I would distinguish between rough patches that are part of any long event, and what the author is describing. I think there is a world of difference between the two.

rob

[alex plumb]

Kellie, This may not be what you want to hear, but I have never embraced the suck. I hate the suck. The suck takes all the fun out of randonneuring. This is probably why I'm a randonneur and not a triathlete or serious racer of any kind.  I've devoted all my training, equipment, and skills towards avoiding the suck altogether. I eat a lot on rides and have developed methods that allow me to eat even more without discomfort. 90% of the suck I've encountered on long brevets was a direct result of forgetting to eat enough, or my souring stomach not allowing me to eat enough. I wear the most comfortable bike shorts I can find on the most comfortable saddle I can find. If my ass hurts it's an exception these days. but when it does, I ride out of the saddle a lot till I can stop and apply a pain relieving salve to the tender area. I've dialed in my bike fit so that hand, shoulder, and knee pain is kept well under the level of SUCK. At stops and while riding I rotate my wrists, knees, and neck to keep them happy.  I ride with my handlebars nearly at seat level so that my neck is still working after days of riding. I have cushy handlebar tape that is a sofa for my hands.  I raise my feet up and take my shoes off at stops to keep hot foot at bay, plus stick "cookies" on my insoles to soothe the metatarsals.   Remembering that it's not a race and stopping for a while when something does suck often solves the problem. 30 minutes off the bike will slow you down but it often puts a stop to things that suck in the night.   When all my avoidance techniques have failed and the suck is well upon me, I still don't embrace it. I pretend it's a bad practical joke played on me by God and get even by ignoring the immature Lord's little punk.  I taunt it by yelling something like "come on pain, is that all you got!?!"  I'll get mad, tell the suck to fuck off, and ride even harder (this has occasionally scared other riders that don't understand my motives). But when I can, I just slow down, find some fellow randonneurs to chat with and then, like Julie Andrews, I don't feel so bad. My number one goal as a randonneur is not to finish fast, but to finish well.  Don't get me wrong, I'm always happy to finish with a personal best time and I do train a bit for speed, but I will not sacrifice one for the other.  I've spent many hours in total agony on brevets and nearly quit the sport because of it.  So now I always remember the words of Willie Nevin when things start getting grim, "What's the point of doing this if you're not having fun?  Alex Plumb --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Kellie Stapleton <kellie.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Metin Uz]

Rob,

Chris McCormack is one of the most successful Ironman triathletes in the world, Kona and world champion.We are talking about 8:15 Ironman time, 2:42 marathon after 112 miles on the bike. No wonder he experiences "suck" at every race. I agree with your premise, no reason a randonneur needs to feel that, but still good to be mentally prepared.

--Metin

[Koss, Brian R. (ARC-RE)]

I think everybody draws their own conclusions as to what helps them accomplish a goal. I understand the, this shouldn't hurt, mentality but I have to agree with Carlos's view point. There are high and low points on any ride and learning how to work through them can be rewarding. What I got most out of the article and I think is most important is not dwelling on the negative but looking towards the positive. I don't know how many time I have been riding with a group (not so much with randonneurs but definitely with the club rides) and there is a lot of negative talk just before a big climb.I tell newer riders not to dwell on the "pain" of climbing but to think about the accomplishment that is coming with cresting the top. I find it much easier to climb with a positive outcome. The article really resonated with me but it is just one opinion or approach.

Brian
________________________________________
From: sfra...@googlegroups.com [sfra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Metin Uz [uz.m...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:20 PM
To: sfra...@googlegroups.com
Cc: C. Duque; Kellie Stapleton
Subject: Re: [SFRandon] Re: Chris McCormack: Embrace The Suck

Rob,

Chris McCormack is one of the most successful Ironman triathletes in the world, Kona and world champion.We are talking about 8:15 Ironman time, 2:42 marathon after 112 miles on the bike. No wonder he experiences "suck" at every race. I agree with your premise, no reason a randonneur needs to feel that, but still good to be mentally prepared.

--Metin

On Friday, May 24, 2013 6:00:15 PM UTC-7, rob hawks wrote:
Carlos,

I'd argue strongly that what you describe you are doing is avoiding 'the suck', as I was suggesting from the outset of my post. By the author's own description, he dove head first into it. I would distinguish between rough patches that are part of any long event, and what the author is describing. I think there is a world of difference between the two.

rob

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 5:42 PM, C. Duque <cduq...@gmail.com<javascript:>> wrote:
What I got from the article is something very similar to what I do when I'm bonking or cooked or whatever one calls that; the author just used Suck as his way of describing a state of mind and body. I often talk to the boddy when it does not want to cooperate with what I want to do. Most of the time I laugh and I allow the bonk to be part of the moment, not the enemy, just slow down or stop if needed, regroup and continue. I'm not saying I enjoy it but is definitively there waiting to sneak if I make mistakes or bad choices in preparation or during the ride.

IMO any sport has the potential for "the suck", bonking or whatever way you want to describe what happens to you when you reach a limit. I actually enjoy finding my limits and then when I think there is no way I can get out of it, most of the time I find a way. If one participates in randonneuring, triathlons or any other endurance sport the bonk, suck or whatever is always a very strong possibility. I embrace it when it visits me.

Carlos

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Rob Hawks <rob....@gmail.com<javascript:>> wrote:
I'm certainly not the most veteran, nor the most successful randonneur. That said, here is my strategy. (No offence Gintautas, but ...) Ignore 'advice' from blog postings such as this one and avoid 'the suck' as best as one can. The latter may be quite easy and simple.

The author of the blog posting is, as I understand it, a tri-athelete. Drawing useful parallels between 'tri' events and randonneuring is tricky. Both niche sports select their bicycles with purpose in mind and I would venture to say that many randonneurs would suffer trying to use a Tri bike for randonneuring and to maybe even the same degree the opposite would be true as well. The non-interchangeability doesn't end there. (true, most of the bikes used by the fastest randonneurs are not completely like those used by less speedy randonneurs, but I would think there is more in common there than between randonneuring and triathlon bikes.)

The main topic of the blog posting is 'the suck', which I take to mean a state where one is performing *well* below par and enjoyment at that moment of the activity may be non-existent. Why would you expect that this state would be common in randonneuring? The author was describing an experience where he essentially changed the game he was playing, going for short course events to Ironman events. I would not fault a reader for inferring that the author was suggesting it was the distance, and not him that was the cause. At that point he had no previous experience with the longer events. Perhaps his training was not much more than 'more of the same' of what he used to prepare for short course tri events. Is that a recipe for success? Is what ever the author used to prepare for longer events a recipe for success? I would suggest maybe not given what happened to him.

If you believe that experiencing 'the suck' is inevitable. then maybe you made the wrong choice picking randonneuring if that is where you went to find it.

rob hawks

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Kellie Stapleton <kellie.s...@gmail.com<javascript:>> wrote:
What would be great here is for veterans to share their strategies with us newbies. How do they embrace the suck?

On Friday, May 24, 2013 1:20:43 PM UTC-7, Gintautas Budvytis wrote:
Friday reads.
Great article, IMO also applicable to randonneuring (or any endurance event).

Chris McCormack: Embrace The Suck
http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/05/training/chris-mccormack-embrace-the-suck_76419

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iGB

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[Rob Hawks]

Respectfully, I think you and Carlos are missing the point. The kind of pain the author is talking about is simply not the kind of pain 99% of randonneurs ever have to face. The author does what he does for a living, and the events he participates in are on a scale far beyond what we do, even including The Gold Rush, PBP, The Cascade 1200 etc. We don't ride brevets to put food on the table and pay the bills and we don't do it with world class athletes.  

On the recent 600km I said to the person I was riding along with that no one will ever experience a perfect 600k, that the ride is made up of high points and low points and high points always come after low points. I've done rides during and after which I was weary. Very weary. I've finished rides completely exhausted. I've done rides that in the end didn't come close to what I had hoped for. I've done rides where my muscles were cramping from previous efforts. I would *never* compare what I went through and what I felt to what the author of this article is trying to explain. My experiences just don't come close.

When I first started riding Doubles and brevets, I would never be able to sleep the night before and I'd arrive at the start quite nervous. I feel that if you read this article and extrapolate from it " the cocktail of pain is so horrible that it exposes any weakness in your character", "a point of absolute panic", and live through " the experience [that] was horrific", and expect that "at some point a race [brevet] is going to really suck", because you'll have to "manage the (inevitable) pain" then you'll end up always dreading the event and you may just turn your worries into reality. I really don't think this article is a lesson for those approaching our sport. I sleep a lot better before rides now and I don't show up nervous and anxious. I learned that as an aging, overweight, less than fit person (this is me and I'm not projecting this description on to anyone else) could do these events and find enjoyment long before the end. There was no suffering that was inevitable and if I found myself headed toward suffering, I could do something about that. As Metin says, it is good to be mentally prepared (which is one reason behind the past "preparing for big ride" seminars, and the current Beerside Chat get togethers).

rob hawks

[Klguzik]

Rob,

Much of what you say is true whether you are riding brevets or participating in Ironman triathlons. 

I started doing tri's shortly after I started biking. I did a super short distance tri, followed by longer, and then longer again. Each time, I found myself asking "What else can I do?"

My experience with Rando rides has been similar. I finished a 400k. Could I do a 600k?

It wasn't until an extreme athlete looked at me enthusiastically and asked "Oh, you compete in triathlons?" That I found myself struggling to explain the difference. Luckily an experienced friend came to the rescue. I "participate". I don't compete for the podium. I don't push to the point that I'm against the wall, and I've hit that big "suck". I am just competing/riding for my own personal challenge and enjoyment.

I agree with you in so many ways. We are not professionally competing. There are highs and lows on any ride, but when it comes to dealing with what "sucks", it's usually me clinging to John's wheel!

Kimber

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch

[Koss, Brian R. (ARC-RE)]

Hi Rob,

I would NEVER! consider myself to be in the same class as Chris McCormack. But "the suck" is relative to ones point of view. Even and aging, out of prime, never competitive rider like myself can get in spots that really SUCK but know that I will get through them if I just grit my teeth and move forward. Another article I found interesting several year ago was about the Ultra endurance rider Jure Robic and how he felt when he was in "the Suck". He thought he had no power and was incredibly slow but when they instrumented him they found that his actual power was only decrease by about 10-15%. When he came out of the suck his performance came up to and many times improved compared to before the low point. I forget which brevet I was hanging with the lead group and got dropped in Nicasio. I thought i was creeping and I would finsih at least 45 minute to an hour behind the lead group when in actuality I was only 12 minutes behind. The point being, I do not compare myself to Jure other than sharing a respectively similar experience where my perceived performance was significantly different than actual performance. I think a similar comparison can be made about The McCormack article.

I completely agree with Metin about being as mentally prepared as one can be. Often that includes working up near a personal suck zone to push it out further as Carlos suggested.

I would LOVE to prepare by using the beer side chats. I just have to find somebody to help my grandmother out on Sundays.

Brian
________________________________________
From: Rob Hawks [rob....@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 11:33 PM
To: Koss, Brian R. (ARC-RE)
Cc: uz.m...@gmail.com; sfra...@googlegroups.com; C. Duque; Kellie Stapleton

Subject: Re: [SFRandon] Re: Chris McCormack: Embrace The Suck

Respectfully, I think you and Carlos are missing the point. The kind of pain the author is talking about is simply not the kind of pain 99% of randonneurs ever have to face. The author does what he does for a living, and the events he participates in are on a scale far beyond what we do, even including The Gold Rush, PBP, The Cascade 1200 etc. We don't ride brevets to put food on the table and pay the bills and we don't do it with world class athletes.

On the recent 600km I said to the person I was riding along with that no one will ever experience a perfect 600k, that the ride is made up of high points and low points and high points always come after low points. I've done rides during and after which I was weary. Very weary. I've finished rides completely exhausted. I've done rides that in the end didn't come close to what I had hoped for. I've done rides where my muscles were cramping from previous efforts. I would *never* compare what I went through and what I felt to what the author of this article is trying to explain. My experiences just don't come close.

When I first started riding Doubles and brevets, I would never be able to sleep the night before and I'd arrive at the start quite nervous. I feel that if you read this article and extrapolate from it " the cocktail of pain is so horrible that it exposes any weakness in your character", "a point of absolute panic", and live through " the experience [that] was horrific", and expect that "at some point a race [brevet] is going to really suck", because you'll have to "manage the (inevitable) pain" then you'll end up always dreading the event and you may just turn your worries into reality. I really don't think this article is a lesson for those approaching our sport. I sleep a lot better before rides now and I don't show up nervous and anxious. I learned that as an aging, overweight, less than fit person (this is me and I'm not projecting this description on to anyone else) could do these events and find enjoyment long before the end. There was no suffering that was inevitable and if I found myself headed toward suffering, I could do something about that. As Metin says, it is good to be mentally prepared (which is one reason behind the past "preparing for big ride" seminars, and the current Beerside Chat get togethers).

rob hawks

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Koss, Brian R. (ARC-RE) <brian....@nasa.gov<mailto:brian....@nasa.gov>> wrote:
I think everybody draws their own conclusions as to what helps them accomplish a goal. I understand the, this shouldn't hurt, mentality but I have to agree with Carlos's view point. There are high and low points on any ride and learning how to work through them can be rewarding. What I got most out of the article and I think is most important is not dwelling on the negative but looking towards the positive. I don't know how many time I have been riding with a group (not so much with randonneurs but definitely with the club rides) and there is a lot of negative talk just before a big climb.I tell newer riders not to dwell on the "pain" of climbing but to think about the accomplishment that is coming with cresting the top. I find it much easier to climb with a positive outcome. The article really resonated with me but it is just one opinion or approach.

Brian
________________________________________

From: sfra...@googlegroups.com<mailto:sfra...@googlegroups.com> [sfra...@googlegroups.com<mailto:sfra...@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Metin Uz [uz.m...@gmail.com<mailto:uz.m...@gmail.com>]

Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:20 PM

To: sfra...@googlegroups.com<mailto:sfra...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: C. Duque; Kellie Stapleton
Subject: Re: [SFRandon] Re: Chris McCormack: Embrace The Suck

Rob,

Chris McCormack is one of the most successful Ironman triathletes in the world, Kona and world champion.We are talking about 8:15 Ironman time, 2:42 marathon after 112 miles on the bike. No wonder he experiences "suck" at every race. I agree with your premise, no reason a randonneur needs to feel that, but still good to be mentally prepared.

--Metin

On Friday, May 24, 2013 6:00:15 PM UTC-7, rob hawks wrote:
Carlos,

I'd argue strongly that what you describe you are doing is avoiding 'the suck', as I was suggesting from the outset of my post. By the author's own description, he dove head first into it. I would distinguish between rough patches that are part of any long event, and what the author is describing. I think there is a world of difference between the two.

rob

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 5:42 PM, C. Duque <cduq...@gmail.com<mailto:cduq...@gmail.com><javascript:>> wrote:
What I got from the article is something very similar to what I do when I'm bonking or cooked or whatever one calls that; the author just used Suck as his way of describing a state of mind and body. I often talk to the boddy when it does not want to cooperate with what I want to do. Most of the time I laugh and I allow the bonk to be part of the moment, not the enemy, just slow down or stop if needed, regroup and continue. I'm not saying I enjoy it but is definitively there waiting to sneak if I make mistakes or bad choices in preparation or during the ride.

IMO any sport has the potential for "the suck", bonking or whatever way you want to describe what happens to you when you reach a limit. I actually enjoy finding my limits and then when I think there is no way I can get out of it, most of the time I find a way. If one participates in randonneuring, triathlons or any other endurance sport the bonk, suck or whatever is always a very strong possibility. I embrace it when it visits me.

Carlos

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Rob Hawks <rob....@gmail.com<mailto:rob....@gmail.com><javascript:>> wrote:
I'm certainly not the most veteran, nor the most successful randonneur. That said, here is my strategy. (No offence Gintautas, but ...) Ignore 'advice' from blog postings such as this one and avoid 'the suck' as best as one can. The latter may be quite easy and simple.

The author of the blog posting is, as I understand it, a tri-athelete. Drawing useful parallels between 'tri' events and randonneuring is tricky. Both niche sports select their bicycles with purpose in mind and I would venture to say that many randonneurs would suffer trying to use a Tri bike for randonneuring and to maybe even the same degree the opposite would be true as well. The non-interchangeability doesn't end there. (true, most of the bikes used by the fastest randonneurs are not completely like those used by less speedy randonneurs, but I would think there is more in common there than between randonneuring and triathlon bikes.)

The main topic of the blog posting is 'the suck', which I take to mean a state where one is performing *well* below par and enjoyment at that moment of the activity may be non-existent. Why would you expect that this state would be common in randonneuring? The author was describing an experience where he essentially changed the game he was playing, going for short course events to Ironman events. I would not fault a reader for inferring that the author was suggesting it was the distance, and not him that was the cause. At that point he had no previous experience with the longer events. Perhaps his training was not much more than 'more of the same' of what he used to prepare for short course tri events. Is that a recipe for success? Is what ever the author used to prepare for longer events a recipe for success? I would suggest maybe not given what happened to him.

If you believe that experiencing 'the suck' is inevitable. then maybe you made the wrong choice picking randonneuring if that is where you went to find it.

rob hawks

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Kellie Stapleton <kellie.s...@gmail.com<mailto:kellie.s...@gmail.com><javascript:>> wrote:
What would be great here is for veterans to share their strategies with us newbies. How do they embrace the suck?

On Friday, May 24, 2013 1:20:43 PM UTC-7, Gintautas Budvytis wrote:
Friday reads.
Great article, IMO also applicable to randonneuring (or any endurance event).

Chris McCormack: Embrace The Suck
http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/05/training/chris-mccormack-embrace-the-suck_76419

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[Joan Deitchman]

True - the "suck" that Chris McCormack experiences is a different kind of "suck" than you're likely to find on a brevet, but the point remains that randonneuring and riding one's bike very long distances can be mentally draining/challenging, especially to a new comer to the distance.  While the article's author may be applying techniques to a different kind of "suck", there are similar principles that apply to what we do.  The biggest is the aspect of staying mentally positive.  Like someone said, there will be highs and lows during the course of a long ride - it will never be 100% the same throughout.  Learning to get through those lows without getting sucked further into them is a huge part of riding longer.  It's amazing how slippery that slope is if you're feeling low and start dwelling on that.  A mantra that a friend (Michele Santilhano) told me she uses, and which I've found to be very helpful, is "this too shall pass".  It helps to keep things in perspective - if you're feeling a little low because you fell behind on your nutrition, or you just did a climb that was a little harder than you're used to, or it's really hot, or there's a fierce headwind, or you're cold and wet, etc., etc. - if you start to fixate on that negative feeling, you'll perpetuate it.  Instead, focus on how you felt when you didn't feel that way, and amazingly it will help you to get back to that "happier place" quicker.  "This too shall pass".  Likewise, if you're feeling great, soak up that moment and enjoy it and cache it away in your memory so that you can pull it out of your mental bag of tricks when you're going through one of those lows - because again, even with the "highs", "this too shall pass".  

Anyway, I do think that the article's main point is to address the mental attitude that you put forth toward highs and lows in events (regardless of what kind they are - heck, even with regard to life itself!), and the gist of the coping methods can be put to good use in randonneuring.  Of course if you're 100% happy on all your rides and never experience any lows, then maybe this won't apply to you, but in that case, I want to know how the heck you manage that!!! :)

Joan

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www.joandeitchman.com

[Jenny Oh Hatfield]

There was a similar discussion on the general randonneuring forum about whether running a marathon or riding the longer brevets were more difficult. And while it's interesting to compare different types of sporting events and draw parallels -- in the end, I think suffering is suffering, no matter what you're doing. There have been some 45-minute CX races I've competing in where I was calling for the wahmbulance after 20 minutes. 

As a newcomer this year, the hardest thing was that it was all...new. People can describe to you various highs/lows you might encounter, but you don't really know how you'll handle a particular situation until you're in it. The furthest I had ridden up until this point in one time period was 110 miles, so anything beyond that was mysterious territory. So I definitely encountered a lot of lows since I didn't know how to prepare for or mentally deal with these new challenges. (And maybe other newcomers won't encounter any.)

But I did learn as I went along what helped me personally survive: companionship, figuring out what worked for me specifically nutrition-wise for long distance riding, training -- then asking lots of questions once I had some frame of reference for brevets. (If I had to put one thing above all others that prevented me from quitting during a ride, however, I would say its companionship.)

So my advice to my fellow newbies would be to just try it, see if you like it and set your goals accordingly. When I decided to sign up and try randonneuring this year, I thought, "Well, if I sign up for one - I might as well sign up for the whole series!" (Then I only have to hit PayPal once, ha!) But that's just me - when I try something, I like to go all out. But now I've reached the point where I'm like, "What do I want to do next?" And I'm more hesitant to commit to the next level -- 1200km, whoa! -- because I'm back in the land of the unknown. But at least now I have better sense of what I'm getting into, and the great moments I've had on the bike this year greatly outweigh the worst ones I've faced (and for me, it was definitely the last segment of this year's 300k, even more so than the knee pain of the 600k). 

And I still love my friend Clayton's words, "Remember, it doesn't have to be fun to be fun." 

Cheers,

Jenny

[bmcquinn]

Well, said, Jenny.

As a triathlete of the "complete not compete" (except with myself) level, I can say that everybody has their own definition of suck.  There's the making peace with the discomfort of extreme intensity (I think tri pros like Macca -- or the House of Pain cycle racer guys -- experience this), and there's the suck of finishing a 200K despite saddle sores.  Philosophically, in smart randonneuring, you try to avoid the latter type of suck, which seems to come with learning from all you great folks out there.  Thank goodness we have the luxury, as non-pro cyclists, of avoiding the former type, unless we purposefully seek out it as a personal challenge.  I find myself using Macca's suck embracement psychology a lot more during running races than SFR rides -- but it does kinda work!  :-)

Barb McQuinn-----Original Message----- 

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