600k registration deadline

[Eric Walstad]

Hi all,

First question is probably for Rob: what is the deadline for registering for the Fort Bragg 600k?

I'm also looking for advice re: a knee injury...

On the 400k I was feeling great: my legs felt strong, my nutrition seemed just right.  However, my left knee started hurting on the climb out of Petaluma.  It got progressively worse for the remainder of the ride.  I was pedaling home on one leg after leaving the finish control.  I haven't been back on the bike since - I'm babying my knee hoping it'll heal in time for me to ride the 600k but I'm starting to have my doubts if it's a good idea for me to try it.  The knee is feeling a little better each day. Getting around on the flat is painless (up to a few blocks long) but walking downhill or down stairs causes pain and a general feeling that things just aren't right yet.  I haven't made a decision yet about attempting the 600k.  March 2012 I had a similar overuse injury that took a few weeks to heal.  I'm wondering if the more experienced riders in the group have a strong opinion about this.   If I don't ride the 600k, I want to volunteer to help out.

Thanks in advance,

Eric.

[Rob Hawks]

The deadline for signups for the 600k is May 8th, at 9pm.

Many people on this list have consulted Anthony Gilbert regarding knee and other issues and have had great success with that. Perhaps someone has a current contact number for Anthony Gilbert?

rob hawks

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[Gintautas Budvytis]

I'm not a specialist in knee injuries but in the past had some.

Incorrect saddle height MIGHT BE a cause of your knee pain.

In my case: saddle to low - tendons in front hurt; saddle too high - tendons in the back of the knee hurt. Once I found out "the sweet spot" all the pain gone. Also it comes out on a longer distances. As Deb said, anything in this sport beyond 200k is difficult.

Some people tend to put knee inward or ourward while pedaling causing one or another side of knee tendos too hurt. This can be partially fixed by playing with cleat positioning.

I hope it helps (and as effective as "Google Doctor" my primary care MD hates :).

 

GB

[Willie Hunt]

I have no idea if this is your problem, but it's a very common problem for ultra distance runners and cyclists alike:

I had knee issues in 2009 when I starting do ultra distance rides.  My doctors were worthless, "It's a overuse injury".  I nursed them along through 2009 trying to stretch muscles out and took it easy when they hurt.  Finally in early 2010, I went to see a physical therapist.  She took one look at my knees and then felt my IT bands.  "Your IT's are as tight as guitar strings and they are pulling your knee caps off side".  She got me started using a foam roller, and various other stretches and simple leg exercises.  Within a week things were better, within 2 much better, and within a month I had no issue at all.  Since 2010 my key has been using the foam roller on my IT bands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9aJtO0VCqw

Willie

[C. Duque]

Eric,

I think this is going to be your first 600k. The SFR 600k has significant climbing, I would pass on this one and do another 600k later on. You may be ok by May 11 but would be pushing your luck. My 2¢.

Here is Anthony Gilbert's contact. He has seen many bay area randonneurs (including me) he is a cyclist himself, nice guy. He is in San Mateo www.theathletesedge.com/ 

Carlos

[Eric Walstad]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and advice, I sure appreciate it.  I'm going to give myself another week to see how I'm doing.  In the mean time I'm going to continue with the ice packs, leg massages and exercises.  I'll reevaluate then and decide whether to ride or volunteer on the SFR 600k.

Eric.

[Megan Arnold]

Besides tight IT band as someone mentioned, tight piriformis can also cause knee discomfort by pulling things out of alignment. The body is truly amazing in what it can do and adapt to, and everything is connected. Sometimes cause is one place and we feel the effect elsewhere. +1 to bike fit and finding PT/bodyworker who knows the issues of distance cycling. Funny how we may spend the $ on new gear but be reluctant about spending the $ and going to get worked on ourselves. Life is too short to ride in pain.

Have an awesome time whether you ride or volunteer, Eric.

- Megan

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[Aaron]

I'd recommend not attempting the 600k based on your comments, unless you have someone eager to come pick you up if you bail.  In my limited experience I need my knees to completely heal before getting back on the bike. 

I've found that everyone's knee issues seem to be unique.  I definitely struggled with my knees as I started into randonneuring in 2008.  I actually spent most of 2007 slowly building up knee strength so that I could complete an SR series in 2008.  After my first 200k attempt in 2007 I was off the bike for 3 months, then realized I needed to take it slow.  Slowly increase mileage, climbing, etc. building up strength in knees, adjusting bike fit, etc.

Bike fit was a big help for me.  Eventually decided to get a custom frame to really make my attempt at anything over 600k.

But over the years, my knees are getting stronger and less prone to issues.  I'm down to only 1-2 vitamin I per 200k in a brevet, and many times much less.

--
Aaron

On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 2:31:07 PM UTC-7, Eric Walstad wrote:

[Jenny Oh Hatfield]

I was just asking some folks about this the other day; I don't have any knee problems while pedaling on the longer rides (300k+), but the day after I can barely walk up and down stairs due to my sore knees (nothing else hurts). But then it passes after a day, so I figured it must just be from exertion (I hope.)

Cheers,

Jenny

[Rob Hawks]

It might be useful in this discussion to distinguish between the different leg/knee issues. Perhaps the original poster can describe more precisely where the knee pain is coming from and what actions trigger the pain. Can the pain be triggered by applying pressure using your hands? Is it in the muscle, joint or tendons/ligaments, etc?

One reason to do this was suggested to me when a response suggested the issue might be ITBS (Ilio tibial band syndrome). One can have knee pain that is chondromalacia and knee pain that is ITBS (among many other types). The two would be different and felt in different places. Over the years, I have had both. The former was felt 'behind the kneecap', the latter on the outside of the knee. Treatment for either was different.

Then there is the general 'day after' pains one might feel. Over the years these have changed for me so that a) overall it has lessened a great deal, and b) depends a lot on the training/distance ratio (ie have I trained enough for this distance?). For the most part I don't consider the typical day after soreness to be 'knee pain'. To me knee pain is something that doesn't go away by the wednesday after a long and challenging ride (but that is my own yardstick).

rob hawks

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[Jenny Oh Hatfield]

For me, it's the frontal region of my knee caps that hurt (and only after super long rides; I rode 125 miles on Sat and 55 miles on Sun with no knee pain afterwards). So I'm chalking it up to when I ride distances of 300k+ that make them sore after a day, and this is the first year that I've ridden over 125 miles in one long consecutive time period as well. I should probably roller/stretch more as well. Ice baths are the best and most horrible treatment I've found for sore legs.

Cheers,

Jenny

[Alice Stribling]

I had knee pain due to a slight leg length difference (in the femur). The pain was sharp and intermittent on the outside front of the knee, I occasionally felt it while climbing out of the saddle and off the bike.

It's a common issue, but one that I didn't know about until I had a bike fit and subsequent physical therapy evaluation. It doesn't always cause problems/pain until you repeat the same motion thousands and thousands of times. Meaning, people can go their entire lives without knowing about it.

It can be genetic, so ask your parents. My mother would have saved me some time if she had told me...

A good bike fit guru can shim the cleat if needed. I can recommend Ari at Bespoke in SF.

Alice

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This summer I'm riding my bike 545 miles from SF to LA. I want to break past the mental hurdle of what I currently think is possible on my bike, I also want to give back to the vibrant San Francisco community. All funds go to HIV/AIDS awareness, prevention and people living with the HIV and AIDS.

If you want to help, you can donate here: http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/AliceStribling

Thank you,

Alice Stribling
www.alicestribling.com

[Greg Merritt]

So many ways knees can complain, and so many different approaches for
addressing the problems.

For me, I observe the following:

--------------------------------------------------------
Morning, just before ride: typical weight
Morning, day after ride: typical weight, maybe down one pound
Morning, two days after ride: weight up four to six POUNDS over the
previous day (*)
Morning, three days after ride: weight still up (*)
Morning, four days after ride: weight back to typical
--------------------------------------------------------

On these higher-weight days (*), my legs are tight and my knees may
hurt. It is a very "external" pain. Jeans fit more tightly. I am
clearly holding fluid (no way I've eaten that much weight in food, and
no way I've ingested 15,000 calories the day after a ride!) and a lot
of that fluid is pretty clearly in my legs. My uneducated assumption
is that my body is repairing, and using water to transport materials.
I'm just guessing, though.

(I believe I've heard Rob Hawks and Lisa-Susan McPhate talk about
similar post-ride weight swings.)

*If* I am good and do an easy recovery ride -- very gentle pedaling
for the better part of an hour -- it seems that I can often "flush"
some of this fluid sooner.

Going for a nice walk feels very good, too.

Also! Putting my legs up (lying on my back with my legs totally
vertical against a wall) any time after a ride -- immediately, next
day, etc., can help.

I now expect this whole process to happen, and don't fight it. Note
that descending stairs facing backwards, for me, can be done
pain-free. Also, ibuprofen can help, but I prefer to do the other
things -- recovery ride/walk, putting legs up, stretching, rollers,
and just taking it easy.

Good luck!

-Greg

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Jenny Oh Hatfield <plat...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Eric Walstad]

My pain is only on my left knee, slightly to the left (from my eyes perspective) of the kneecap, from the kneecap down for a few inches.  I feel pain only after walking more than a few city blocks on the flat or a very short distance *down* a hill or stairs.  It doesn't feel like the behind-the-kneecap pain I had at the beginning of 2012, which had me at the Dr's office a few times, x-rays (wasn't sure if a minor fall may have damaged any bone), to the Physical Therapist for checkout and advice on proper recovery and to the bike shop for adjusting bike and shoe fit.  The consensus then was that, because I was just starting out with longer and more intense rides, my muscles were pulling the kneecap out of place and the misalignment was resulting in friction, etc.  I've been pain free for the last year until now. My current issue feels related to muscle or tendon or some-other-stretchy-bits in the pain area.

A friend/coworker/sfrmember keeps a foam roller at the office so I borrowed it last night and gave it a try along with some stretches in the video that Willie posted. Wow, did that roller hurt - felt like I was giving myself charlie-horses on my legs. But, I slept without pain and woke up feeling great.  I had much less pain getting to work today, none actually, until descending the BART station stairs.

Eric.

[Greg Merritt]

Le Apr 25, 2013 à 10:54, Eric Walstad <ewal...@gmail.com> a écrit :

> A friend/coworker/sfrmember keeps a foam roller at the office

Doesn't everybody? ;)

-Greg

[Eric Walstad]

Yep, that's the one! I'll be shopping for one of my own tonight.

 

[Alice Stribling]

This is not normal. ;-)

A

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This summer I'm riding my bike 545 miles from SF to LA. I want to break past the mental hurdle of what I currently think is possible on my bike, I also want to give back to the vibrant San Francisco community. All funds go to HIV/AIDS awareness, prevention and people living with the HIV and AIDS.

If you want to help, you can donate here: http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/AliceStribling

Thank you,

Alice Stribling
www.alicestribling.com

[Roland Bevan]

Oh, did we say we were normal? ;-)

  -Roland

[Willie Hunt]

I not only have foam rollers at home, office, in the car, but I also carry one with me on ALL my rides!  :)  Seriously, I have a 10 inch piece that I use as a jack stand for the Quest Velomobile, and I've used many times on long rides half way through to roll out stiff IT's, even quads. 

And yes, anyone with knee problem should go see a medical exercise specialist and or a physical therapist, because each person needs to understand which of the many issues is causing his/her knee pain.

Willie

[Greg Merritt]

On a Lighthouse 200k, I once bought a 28oz. can of pinto beans at
Perry's Deli in Inverness to roll out my IT bands. It
was...effective.

I left it, unopened, on a table outside when I was done.

-Greg

[Alice Stribling]

I learn something new from you people every day. Yesterday it was nipples, today it's 'how to use beans to work out your musk-les'.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This summer I'm riding my bike 545 miles from SF to LA. I want to break past the mental hurdle of what I currently think is possible on my bike, I also want to give back to the vibrant San Francisco community. All funds go to HIV/AIDS awareness, prevention and people living with the HIV and AIDS.

If you want to help, you can donate here: http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/AliceStribling

Thank you,

Alice Stribling
www.alicestribling.com