Fri 06/14 Friendly Skyline 6:30 AM RRR Style 2 or 3

[Ramesh]

May is over. ALC is over. A relaxed Skyline is all I need to start my first June commute. 

A friendly Skyline ride with re-groups where it is necessary but not a NRLB type. Rolling average speed will be in 16ish mph with the elevation. If the group gets bigger we can do rollers instead of SCT.

Route: Alemany - JD/Skyline - SCT - Sand Hill - Foothill - Apple

Rollout: Ritual Roasters @ 6:30 AM 

JD/Skyline Intercept: 7:05 AM

Who will join me?

Ramesh.

[Felix]

+1 from JD/Skyline Intercept to Google.

Felix

[Jeffrey Skokan]

+1  I drop at Crystal Springs

[Jeffrey Axelrod]

+1 to Crystal Springs / 

[Marion Silies]

+2

[Jacky Schuler]

+1

-- jacky

I'm riding my bicycle across Zambia to fight AIDS and poverty. Please support me with a donation.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Marion Silies <masi...@gmail.com> wrote:

+2

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[Michel]

+1 at Ritual.

[Jeffrey Skokan]

-1  I have a 9:00 AM meeting in MV so I have to be in Foster City by 7:30.

[Russ]

+1 until SCT. Will be doing rollers with repeats

[Guilherme Germoglio]

sort of +1 

I'm doing the hippie version and might intercept or be intercepted at some point. 

[Jacky Schuler]

-1 I have to get into work early tomorrow...

-- jacky

I'm riding my bicycle across Zambia to fight AIDS and poverty. Please support me with a donation.

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[bonnie]

+.8

Will likely get dropped and II'm fine with that ( still recovering).

Also if there is no fog nor extreme winds I will probably turn off at Sneath and ride up to Sweeney Ridge

-Bonnie

[T. Allan Shortlidge]

+1

On Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:51:30 PM UTC-7, Ramesh G wrote:

[djconnel]

+1

[Stephen Grenholm]

+1 RRR What better way to start Friday? SCT a nice bonus

[Rob]

+ 0.4.  will join if awake and will spilt at the SCT to hit the rollers.

[Felix]

-1

Alas, I've got too much work tomorrow.

[Marion Silies]

-2, more sleep and less climbing is needed.

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--
Marion Silies
Dept. of Neurobiology, Clandinin lab
Fairchild Bldg. D249
299 Campus Drive West
Stanford, CA 94305
USA

email: msi...@stanford.edu

[Michel]

-1 -- I need some flat to flush alcohol out of my blood.

[djconnel]

I also plan to split off @ SCT

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 9:22:54 PM UTC-7, Rob wrote:

[djconnel]

Ironically I was planning on splitting off @ SCT because I consider that too dangerous but it was SAT which did me in.

I was ahead of the others, planning on a quick stop at the toilet on SAT, when I came across a group of 3 women walking side-by-side taking up 75% of the trail.  This I found a bit annoying, as it's a multi-use trail and they were using 75% of it, but there was 25% on the left and nobody was coming so I went to pass them.  I don't have a bell and "on your left!" is often counter-productive so I didn't announce my approach, but at the worst possible time the women on the left suddenly changed trajectory blocking my way.

My first thought was I was going to plow right into her,  but I managed to avoid this with instead a glancing impact with my right hip.  This threw me off balance and I ended up landing on the pavement on my right side.  She seemed okay, at least.

In retrospect I should have just stopped and not tried to pass and part of passing was honestly due to my annoyance at them taking up so much of the trail.  A more pragmatic approach would have been to just stop.  This is the sort of encounter which has happened at least 100 times before on pedestrian trails (people walking multi-abreast taking up most of the trail), and it's no surprise walkers aren't reliably predictable, and test your luck enough times and eventually there's a good chance you lose.

Everyone stopped to make sure I was okay, including the 3 women, and John, another pedestrian trail user.  When I was able to stand up and put weight on my right leg, Russ and John stayed with me, while the others went off after I assured everyone I was okay.  John kindly offered me a ride back home, while Russ made sure I was able to get back to the north head of the trail where John's car was parked.

 Thanks to everyone for making sure I was okay.  The hip hurts,  but it's bruised, and I'm going to stay home today and ice it.  Hopefully it improves during the day or I'll need to go get it X-rayed. I had a similar incident in September 2001 which ended up being a minor pelvis fracture, but that was a higher speed crash on a mountain road (descending Parnitha, north of Athens).

[Jason Thorpe]

Ugh, sorry to hear that Dan.  Hope you heal up fast.

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-- thorpej

[Nathan Dushman]

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 09:13:24AM -0700, djconnel wrote:
> I don't have a bell and "on your left!" is often counter-productive so I
> didn't announce my approach, but at the worst possible time the women on
> the left suddenly changed trajectory blocking my way.

One lesson here is that even though pedestrians don't always know the
difference between "on your left" and "move to the left" you should still
say/yell something to announce your presence.

Hope the injury isn't too serious.

Nathan

[Carlin Eng]

Yikes, glad to hear the injuries aren't more serious. I've only taken the 280 bypass of SAT once, but I'm inclined to start taking it more often, since this type of incident seems inevitable on multi-use paths.

[Peter Chang]

2013/6/14 Nathan Dushman <n...@abtech.org>:

i think you should willing/planning to come to a crawl/stop until they
acknowledge your presence and then pass. just announcing is (as dan
noted) often counter productive.

\p

[Stephen Grenholm]

I'm not sure what the lesson is here - I was about 100feet behind.
So many times I have seen bells and shouts simply startle people to do the irrational.
I bet the same would have happened in this case.
The woman almost darted left across the path quite suddenly upon becoming aware of Dan's approach.

Dan - to the layman, the localized shaking was very disturbing to us all.
See someone if you have any doubt (especially if you've had a hip fracture before)

[Michel Tu]

That sucks, hope you'll heal up fast.

2013/6/14 djconnel <djco...@gmail.com>

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[Stephen Grenholm]

And I agree with Nathan that we should plan to stop (or actually do so) on these multi-use stops, until acknowledgment.
But doing so consistently would almost rule out SCT - lots of headphone users out there.

[Jason Thorpe]

On Jun 14, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Stephen Grenholm <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote:

Not only that, so many people on the trails are wearing headphones that announcing your presence is pointless.  I have called out "ON YOUR LEFT" or "PASSING ON YOUR LEFT" to many times and been unheard it's ridiculous.

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-- thorpej

[Jeffrey Axelrod]

Dan, hope you’re ok.  Rest is good!

Russ, thanks for accompanying Dan out ..

And Ramesh, thanks for calling and leading a calm ride, especially after the fall.

 

JAx.

[Nathan Dushman]

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:15:23AM -0700, Jason Thorpe wrote:
> Not only that, so many people on the trails are wearing headphones that
> announcing your presence is pointless. I have called out "ON YOUR LEFT"
> or "PASSING ON YOUR LEFT" to many times and been unheard it's ridiculous.

True but I don't think this absolves cyclists of the responsibility to
announce their presence. Also, I assume in this case that three people
walking together were talking to each other, not listening to headphones.

Obviously I didn't see what happened here. I just think it's a reminder that
we need to be considerate trail users and let people know we're approaching.
This comes up on the High Voltage Dash, too, and I admit I'm not always
good about saying something to pedestrians - the other day a jogger yelled
"Aren't you going to say something?" as we passed him.

Nathan

[djconnel]

Thanks, all! I'm resting now.... I'll probably get it checked out tomorrow. If it is fractured, they'll just give me pain killers and tell me to RICE anyway, then take their $5000. Definitely lesson is to slow to pedestrian pace on that scenario, ring bell or whatever, wait for reaction, then go.

[David Goldsmith]

Dan, I hope you wake up tomorrow morning feeling great. Sorry to hear
about the fall.

In general, I am all for avoiding as many multi-purpose paths as
possible. That's four wrecks on them in 3 years that I can remember, one
taking out 3 riders, and given that they comprise maybe 15-20% of our
total miles, that's a lot. I think we do better on roads.

David

[Russ]

Glad you are home safe. Hope you heal quickly. I definitely gave peds more time and space for the rest of the ride. Will think about the 280 bypass next time.

[Peter Chang]

2013/6/14 djconnel <djco...@gmail.com>:

> Thanks, all! I'm resting now.... I'll probably get it checked out tomorrow.

well, at least if you're not in agonny right now it's probably not broken.

still seems that the delay might not be the bestest but then again any
hospital voyage is to be avoided (even if you're pretty sure of the
diagnosis/treatment) what w/ all of the staph/super-bugs/zombies.

\p

[Peter Colijn]

Hm, really not sure on the statistics there.

Anyway, I agree that trails are more conducive to slower riding and smaller groups. Today I took FCF with 2 other folks, we rode super chill, and it was very pleasant. I've also been on FCF with a larger group wanting to do 20mph and it's pretty terrifying for all involved.

Dan, hope you heal up quick and glad you made it back safely.

Peter

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[murphstahoe]

And as for the FCF -

 

Be careful there too. Yesterday I was headed down to SF to do Carlin's skyline ride. This involves leaving my house at about 4:30 AM to ride to Santa Rosa where I catch the bus to SF. I have something like 900 lumens going, with a helmet light for light where I am looking and a steady light on my handlebars.

 

At about 5 AM, somewhere in the more remote part of Larkfield/Wikiup, I see a cat crossing the road from left to right, I first see it at about the double yellow. I am following it across the road with my eyes (so the helmet light is following it). Then I see a second cat, on the far left side of my peripheral vision, headed straight towards my front wheel and maybe 2 yards from it. Next thing I know I am on the ground in a heap. I didn't even really "see" the cat was going to hit my wheel for sure because that moved into an unlighted spot. I *might* have had better reaction time if I wasn't sort of half-awake, but basically I got unlucky.

 

Be careful with those cats and geese!

 

Somehow I convinced myself I was OK and rode to the bus stop. I missed the bus and clearly there was no Skyline in my future but I figured I would go to work. 20 minutes later I figured differently. I rode 13 miles home. I definitely felt sort but figured I'd get a massage and maybe visit a chiropractor. When I got home, it took me 5 minutes to walk about 10 yards from my bike to the door.- cycling is so nuetral position and non-weight bearing I didn't notice myself stiffening up.

 

I finagled a chiro appointment by basically calling the entire yelp directory.- consider who is the most likely to be able to see someone on an emergency basis, hint: this guy was not Brian in the Castro with the magic hands whom David G recommended to me. He managed a few adjustments and I'm on the way to recovery.

 

So I'm with you dan.... get well soon.

 

Murph

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[Rob Manchester]

That sucks.  Hope you feel better Dan.

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:13 AM, djconnel <djco...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Rob Manchester]

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Carlin Eng <carl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yikes, glad to hear the injuries aren't more serious. I've only taken the 280 bypass of SAT once, but I'm inclined to start taking it more often, since this type of incident seems inevitable on multi-use paths.

yeah, the multi-use paths really aren't designed for cyclists like us.  plus they have a 15 mph speed limit. 

[Mark Kahn]

I try to use the verbal "On your left" approach, at least with anyone who is not hugging the right shoulder...doesn't always work thanks to headphones and general obliviousness.  Yelling it from a fair distance away seems to be helpful because it's less likely to startle and it also gives time for me to adjust.

[Ramesh]

Glad to know that you are OK Dan. Please let us know if you need anything. Thanks to Russ for bailing on the ride to make sure you got on car OK.

Yeah, as Rob mentioned there are signs everywhere in SCT & SAT that the bicycle speed limit must be <15mph which is essentially a style 4 ride in our standards. I do SCT only for chill friendly rides like today & even opt out of that if the group gets bigger. For faster rides I am always on the rollers side. From now on I am more inclined towards the two legal 280 detour for fast Skyline rides.

[Thomas Haggerty]

Actually those paths were put in to accommodate commuting cyclists.  Of course they became the refuge of those who enjoy a tad bit of exercise only after a nice long drive.  That was why and how Darryl Skrabak was able to fight for cyclists to gain legal access to certain segments on 280 in 1978, as relayed by him.  Photo 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Rob Manchester <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:

[Scott Crosby]

how often when you say "on your LEFT!" do you end up saying/thinking "YOUR OTHER LEFT!"

a loud grunt indicating presence is superior, since there's less thinking involved :)

[Rob Manchester]

eh, it happens but I think people generally do the right thing.  when passing folks riding up OLH I occasionally call out the wrong side on which i am passing but seems that folks generally understand what's happening just based on the sound and not the words coming out of my mouth.  i need to put my bell back on my bike.

[Kyle B]

Pedestrians sure can be annoying, but when those same people are driving on 280 and make an erratic move they're now wrapped in 2 tons of steel going 80mph instead of 3.

If safety is everyone's concern, I'd say going slightly slower and making lots of noise on the bike path (or rollers) is way way safer than 280.

[Ramesh]

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Kyle B <kyle.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

If safety is everyone's concern, I'd say going slightly slower and making lots of noise on the bike path (or rollers) is way way safer than 280.

Why is 280 unsafe when you have such wide shoulders?

[Stephen Grenholm]

Because you have to yell "On your right" so loudly while passing cars?

[Maxence Nachury]

Agreed. I never felt unsafe on the 280 sections before. I usually take SAT instead of the first 280 segment but after this thread I am planning on taking 2x 280.

Only annoyance was last week when a San Mateo Sheriff slowed down next to me to tell me that it was illegal to ride on the freeway. After telling him five times that it was legal and that he should look for a sign that says "Bicycle must exit" at the next off-ramp, he finally went away. He looked like he was far from a rookie and I can't imagine how many times he must have driven along this segment without seeing the sign.

[Kyle B]

The shoulder might be wide, but its still a highway and people aren't expecting bikes to be there.  Someone looks down to send a text or drink coffee or whatever and they're on the shoulder in no time.

Plus there's all the debris, shredded tires, and grates on the shoulder.  Take a little spill trying to avoid something at the last second and you're basically laying in the highway.  Unlikely to happen, sure.  But if it does, its not going to be just a bruise to recover from.

It could just be that I'm a wuss, but even though 280 is legal I don't think its a good idea.  

Although, I guess most of my concern is the 3rd section of 280 over the dam.

On Friday, June 14, 2013 3:01:30 PM UTC-7, Ramesh G wrote:

[John Murphy]

Hordes of cyclists use Foothill in Pleasanton and a driver went off the roadway and killed someone there last week.

280 is one of the safest places we ride. The offramp not so much, but the actual 280 is fine modulo that the shoulder is probably never swept and there is a lot of Euke there. But that could be said for Skyline from Hickey to San Bruno...

John Murphy - ta...@murphstahoe.com

--

[Marcelo Vanzin]

Nice to see you're alright; I passed by you guys right after the crash apparently.

I always follow the rule of being extremely paranoid, no matter around what (pedestrians, other cyclists or whatever). Especially on these trails where people are not paying that much attention to their surroundings.

[djconnel]

That sounds like a good rule.  Really I think SAT is okay because it's short and I'd be fine if I'd have just slowed down to walking pace behind the walkers.  I think 280 is better for being in a hurry.

My helmet had a hairline fracture, so it was recommended I go to Davies Medical Center emergency room (which I did reluctantly; I preferred an urgent care clinic, which would have been less expensive).  But they weren't worried about head issues, nor any other symptoms.  X-ray failed to show a fracture, which was good, so it was likely a combination of bruising and muscle injury.  Certainly the wrong sort of motion with my right leg is quite painful, and I've spent the vast majority of the past 24 hours sleeping, but without fracture, hopefully it's a matter of a few days for some degree of recovery.

Alta Alpina 8-pass in two weeks?   That's a stretch.  But at least nothing's obviously broken.

[steve armijo]

Glad you're ok Dan.

I  assume if I alert them, pedestrians will go the wrong way.  I try to ring the bell/call out with enough time for them to move over, look behind and correct.  I also slow down until they acknowledge probably much to the chagrin of anyone behind me.  

In traffic I also assume cars will make the worst possible decision with regard to my well being and try to ride in a way to minimize my downside.

I also prefer the serenity of SCT and its occasional jogger to the 3000lb weapons and their exhaust what plagues 280.

FWIW I also loathe Foothill and generally take whatever route most easily lets me avoid it ( lately Stevens Creek Trail )

-s

[Peter Colijn]

Yikes, really sorry to hear this Murph! Animals can be very unpredictable. I always wonder if it's just a matter of time before I get clobbered by a deer riding Skyline. Hope you heal up quick and are feeling better soon!

Peter