OOo to Apache
Ian Lynch
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Ross Gardler
This is a proposal nothing more. The whining from the TDF and LO
communities that they were not consulted is based on an incomplete
knowledge of the situation. Only a handful of people knew about the
intention to make this *proposal* until yesterday.
The TDF and LibreOffice steering committees were informed/engaged in
April (I don't know what happened in that meeting, I was not there).
They chose not to mention it to the broader community for obvious press
relations reasons. They knew that the real community discussion starts
once the proposal is official.
They issued a statement at the same time as Oracle, IBM and Apache.
The ASF community (outside those involved with the initial idea) knew
nothing of this until the proposal was made yesterday. In other words,
the ASF community, like the LO and TDF co knows the AFommunities, have
not yet spoken.
This is a *proposal* for incubation at the ASF. The real discussion
about the proposal started yesterday on public mailing lists, just like
any other Incubation proposal at the ASF.
Statements like "Oracle and IBM making a bi-lateral decision with ASF"
are way off the mark. The only decision that has been made is the
decision to propose it for incubation. The shape of that proposal is
under discussion right now on *public* lists.
If anyone on this list cares then the best thing to do is participate in
the discussion, or at the very least read along (search
http://markmail.org for "list:incubator openoffice").
However, as someone who knows the ASF better than many I would like to
make one observation (in this matter I do not speak for the foundation,
these are my own opinions):
worst case: OOo is licenced under a permissive licence with explicit
patent licence that is compatible (one way) with the GPL3. The code rots
in the ASF but other communities can take it an use it without fear of
legal action. That is, the worst case means TDF are in a safer place
than they were with the code rotting in Oracles vaults.
best case: OOo becomes a set of permissive licenced libraries with
explicit patent license that can be reused in any environment and safely
collaborated on in the neutral space that is the ASF. This is the stated
intention of IBM representatives on the incubation proposal. It'll be
hard to achieve, but IBM know the ASF is neutral and has, in the past,
been on the recieving end of Board intervention to ensure Apache
projects are neutral. IBM chose not to join TDF and LibreOffice. My
understanding is that, at least in part, this is because it's governance
structure is not neutral.
Both the worst case and best case scenarios (and everything in between)
are a step forward from the limbo land OOo is currently in.
Some may prefer a different licence, I'm not interested in that
argument. No solution to a complex social situation is entirely
satisfactory. Lets not debate what could have/should have/would have
been. Instead lets put our energies into benefiting from what *is*
happening.
You never know it might turn out that TDF and LO give sufficiently
strong arguments that the ASF incubator votes no (I doubt it given the
cautious welcome the proposal has received so far from official releases).
Ross
Ross
On 02/06/2011 09:32, Ian Lynch wrote:
> Anyone any thoughts on the donation of OOo code to the Apache foundation
> by Oracle? Since The Document Foundation was not consulted it seems a
> bit one sided. Oracle and IBM making a bi-lateral decision with ASF. The
> committers cited on the ASF web site, as far as I know have never
> contributed a line of code to OOo - OTOH they represent companies that
> have so maybe that is enough. I thought Apache was such that committers
> have to be hackers not just supporters.
>
> Maybe it doesn't matter but I can't see it helping unify TDF with OOo
> when the LibreOffice license is quite different to the Apache license.
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
> The Schools ITQ
>
> www.theINGOTs.org <http://www.theINGOTs.org> +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> You have received this email from the following company: The Learning
> Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79
> 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Schoolforge-UK Discussions" group.
> To post to this group, send email to sf-uk-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> sf-uk-discus...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/sf-uk-discuss?hl=en.
Ross Gardler
proposal discussion:
--- start quote ---
On 02/06/2011 10:30, eric b wrote:
> Hi,
>
> For the record, I added the Education Project idea on the wiki page
> (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal).
>
> The idea we defend since several years, is to work with High Schools and
> Universities, train students, detect potential good ideas, write code
> (contribute back to OpenOffice.org when the code desserves it).
>
> Feel free to improve the idea :-)
If this is something that the OOo proposal wants to take forward I would
be happy to help facilitate this through our Community Development
Project (this is the PMC that runs our mentoring program).
Ross
--- end quote ---
Ian Lynch
Statements like "Oracle and IBM making a bi-lateral decision with ASF" are way off the mark.
Some may prefer a different licence, I'm not interested in that argument. No solution to a complex social situation is entirely satisfactory.
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ
Ross Gardler
>
> Statements like "Oracle and IBM making a bi-lateral decision with
> ASF" are way off the mark.
>
>
> Then the public wording should have been more tactful.
Agreed. Controlling the marketing people of large corporates is like
trying to hold back the tide. The ASF is no more capable of doing that
than King Canute himself.
Don't believe what you read in the press.
> Personally, I'm more interested in not alienating people. They are the
> most important resource that will ensure the OOo code base doesn't rot
> where ever it is placed.
Then I encourage you to participate in the discussions. This is an
opportunity to heal wounds. The ASF is a neutral venue. Most (all?)
other venues would have been taking sides.
The TDF and LibreOffice are not the only players, they just happen to be
the most vocal. See the community section of the (inn development)
proposal (which incidentally was only put in after discussion) at
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal
I look forward to welcoming you on the Incubator lists (especially with
respect to the education suggestion I forwarded earlier). you can
subscribe with general-subscribe.at.incubator.apache.org
Ross
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
> The Schools ITQ
>
> www.theINGOTs.org <http://www.theINGOTs.org> +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> You have received this email from the following company: The Learning
> Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79
> 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
>
>
Ian Lynch
Then I encourage you to participate in the discussions. This is an opportunity to heal wounds. The ASF is a neutral venue. Most (all?) other venues would have been taking sides.
The TDF and LibreOffice are not the only players, they just happen to be the most vocal. See the community section of the (inn development) proposal (which incidentally was only put in after discussion) at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal
I look forward to welcoming you on the Incubator lists (especially with respect to the education suggestion I forwarded earlier). you can subscribe with general-subscribe.at.incubator.apache.org
--
Ian
Ross Gardler
Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos)
Ian Lynch
Trademarks shouldn't be a problem. My understanding is that the trademarks will be assigned to the ASF.The ASF policy on trademarks can be found at http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/You may need to change wording but it is unlikely you won't be able to use them.This will all be resolved during incubation. But feel free to air your requirements now and, if possible, get it covered in the proposal.
Steve Lee
> I have subscribed but my only real possibility for education contribution is
> certification - We have an EU grant application for 300,000 Euros for OOo
> certification through our German partners awaiting the outcome and
> concluding extensive discussions with a large training company operating
It sounds like things are really moving for the Ingots. Congrats.
More people to see that photo of Mark? :) </proud_parent>
Steve