Wednesday's SF Bike Planner Meeting

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Matt H

Nov 30, 2009, 6:45:01 PM11/30/09
to sf-bike-planner
Hello again,

I'm really encouraged by the response to my call for collaboration on
the SF Bike Mapper. Thanks to Nick for agreeing to host at his office.

I hesitated to put together an agenda, since I don't want this to feel
too much like work, but here are a bunch of potential items for
discussion. This shouldn't be considered binding, but a jumping-off
point. See you at 6:30 on Wednesday.



1. Introductions
a. Shall we take notes for those who are interested and could not

2. State of the Map, December 2009
a. – online bike mapper was never satisfactory. After being
down for a while and then re-launched, the result is less than
b. Google – has quietly announced that it will offer cycling
directions sometime soon.
c. -- say they're already working on the entire SF
Bay area
d. East Bay Bike Coalition : “EBBC is working on our interactive
digital map of the East Bay and we are contracting to create map
layers for a launch to include 2010 Bike to Work Day Energizer
Stations (along with our existing "hazard" and "shop" maps). It sounds
like you are mainly interested in the navigation part; something that
is only one component of our mapping goals and will likely be the last
part that we tackle.”

e. Other cities – A number of other cities have bike route finders:, Vancouver,, etc.
f. Bay Area Prototypes:
i. Amar’s SF Bike Mapper
ii. John’s
iii. Matt’s East Bay Bike Mapper

3. Shall We Collaborate?
a. What should the collaboration look like?
b. Mission/Vision for the site
c. Profit model vs. public benefit
d. Leadership, decision-making, and contributor-ship

4. What should the ideal Bay Area Bike Mapper look like?
a. Routing
i. Hill tolerance (shortest route vs. flattest route)
ii. Traffic tolerance vs. extra distance
iii. Bike paths/lanes
iv. Traffic counts, speed limits, shoulder width, on-street
v. Road hazards (grates, RR tracks, narrow bridges, etc.)

b. User Interface
i. Multiple destinations vs. single start and finish
ii. Modify route by dragging and dropping endpoints and/or route
iii. Zoom to segment of route
iv. Classify segment by route type (path, lane, on-street) and/or
v. Google street view where available?

c. Options
i. Links to transit? (BART, bus, Caltrain, Amtrak, other)
ii. Pollution tolerance (avoid air pollution on congested routes)
iii. Display additional overlays (traffic counts, road hazards,
scenic routes, bathrooms, drinking fountains, pubs, bike shops, etc.)

d. Output
i. Turn-by-turn text directions
ii. Elevation profile plot
iii. Feel-good information about health and pollution benefits
(calories burned and CO2 emissions avoided by not driving)

5. Technology Choice
a. Server side: python, php, C+, other?
b. Map: Yahoo, Google, OpenStreetMap, other?
c. Javascript library: jQuery, YahooUI, scriptaculous, other?
d. Routing algorithm: PostGIS pgRouting? Djikstra, A*, roll our own?
(should include turn restrictions, one-ways, etc.)
e. Database: MySQL, PostGRE, other?
f. GIS data format: shapefile, geodatabase, GML, WKT?
g. Geometry type: Coordinates for geometries may be 2D (x, y), 3D
(x, y, z), 4D (x, y, z, m) or 2D with a m value (x, y, m)
h. Minimizing the steps between editing data and updating the online

6. GIS data development

a. Data sources: OSM, Tiger, Navteq, TeleAtlas, other?
b. Turn restrictions
c. One-way streets
d. Highways (delete)
e. Alleys and bike bridges (add)
f. Adding necessary attributes.

7. Geography
a. Coordinate system (UTM, state plane)
b. Elevation datum (NGVD29 vs. NAVD88)
c. When is the data ready to publish?
d. Adding Polyline MZ data
i. Terrain Data Sources (DEM or DTM)
ii. Issues that arise from draping vector data over a DEM:
1. Bridges
2. Tunnels
3. Roads on steep slopes
4. Elevated roadways

iii. Cleaning and correcting results – necessary, but time
consuming. Tools to simplify or partially automate this procedure?

8. Funding:
a. Apply for grant to Oaklandish, Rose Foundation, other?
b. What would we use it for? (pizza and beer, pay a college intern,
hosting, publicity?)
c. Sell iphone apps?

9. Collaboration:
a. Email group? (how much should be public vs. private?)
b. Wiki?
c. Copyright, Licensing, code maintenance, and updating?
i. Use Google code, Subversion, Trac?

10. Other Issues?

Jason Toy

Nov 30, 2009, 6:52:12 PM11/30/09
I would love to see notes. I originally was going to attend, but will
not be able to make it.


Jason Toy
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