Light Policing at GSSP - or - Know your neighborhood.

[Mark Wagner]

Sorry Rozer, I know its a horrible subject line.

Its may be possible a few of us missing at GSSP for years may make it this time (like I did at CalStar).  I wonder how this subject might be approached, if at all?

I do think it would be nice to go to a Bortle 1 or 1-2 site (as GSSP appears to be) and actually have the expectation to experience those conditions without annoyance.

I have a thought (yeah, I'm amazed too):  What about looking at the layout at GSSP much like the street names on site?  Think of the entrance gate at the Sun.  The further you move away from it the darker it gets.  Perhaps the Oort Cloud should have as close to zero light at possible. It should be reasonably dark at or past the Lumpy Darkness zone:

No computers or any other light sources past nautical twilight, other than the dimmest of red flashlights out in the icy depths.

Truculent offenders risk ejection into the solar core. ;-)

[Akarsh Simha]

The local farmers have lights shining right into your eyes in the Oort Cloud. Can’t eject them into the solar core.

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[Mark Wagner]

Akarsh - 

Maybe we can rent the green monster from Fenway Park?

No doubt there may be things we can't do anything about - look here, I don't see much out there (I'm sure there may be though).  But what could be eliminated would help.  I think there may be people who don't quite understand keeping it dark as possible on-site for their star party neighbors.

[Akarsh Simha]

On Thu, Feb 19, 2026 at 22:55 Mark Wagner <itsmar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Akarsh - 

Maybe we can rent the green monster from Fenway Park?

No doubt there may be things we can't do anything about - look here, I don't see much out there (I'm sure there may be though).  But what could be eliminated would help.  I think there may be people who don't quite understand keeping it dark as possible on-site for their star party neighbors.

At the risk of putting words into Rozer’s mouth, these are my own opinions in the capacity of a long-term GSSP attendee. I do agree with the idea, however the truth is that there are more imagers than visual astronomers, so light policing the Oort Cloud is likely not going to work. The best we can ask for is that the amount of light reduce as you get closer to Lumpy Darkness, which means that the tent that was lit up with football stadium lighting albeit red from last year would get evicted to the Oort Cloud or the Solar core, but the imagers can be happy seeing their full color screens in the Oort Cloud.

Regards

Akarsh

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[Peter Santangeli]

I will admit that I was disappointed at some of my neighbors last year (and as usual, I was at the edge of the Oort cloud). 

But I'm not sure wholesale asking people to move around is the answer. A lot of people have been camping in the same place for years. My impression is it is almost always people that are pretty new to this, or just don't go to a lot of events - exactly the people we should want to attract. 

And whereas the additional gear from imagers (and relative lack of adaptation required) has historically pointed in that direction, the people I had issues with this year were all visual. Increasingly I think serious imagers are completely automated in the field and are as likely to be snoozing in their tents as out in the field on a too-bright laptop. But maybe that's besides the point.

I wonder if we need to be a bit more 'informative' on the site and maybe the emails.

Maybe somebody clever could use the new AI tools out there to put together a video explaining the problem and solutions!

pete

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[Paul Alsing]

My first reaction is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

The Oort cloud is completely self-governing, it is like a different country out there. Beware, all who enter. 😃 All those imagers use computers and to ban them would be folly.

Light pollution has not been a big deal in recent years, except on Public Night. The locals know all about red flashlights but you still get them with red cellophane and they are all too bright... but the locals also go home early on their one night.

Other than that, just like any other star party, sooner or later someone pees in the punch bowl every now and then, and everyone shouts at them. That’s just the way it is. 

Even the most serious observers among us could easily go find darker skies and be alone, but we all really enjoy the comradary that comes with GSSP, even if it is occasionally interrupted by momentary light intrusion. Really, it is not much of an issue.

Paul

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[Richard Navarrete]

Lots of scopes, for visual and imaging, are run by laptop or smartphone these days. Can we at least discourage red headlamps ? Those things are way too bright and spread light all over the place. Of course, in the end, things will be as they will be, despite best intentions.

Richard

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

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[Aris Pope]

Bought my tickets can't wait. I will be in the Oort cloud imaging as I've done the last couple years. I recall having issues with lights on only one of the nights last year. And it was resolved rather quickly

Aris

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[Aris Pope]

I agree on the redhead lamps. However I don't think the color is the issue I think the brightness is. Tough to use those porta potties in the middle of the night without any light.

Aris

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[Joel Lee]

Haven’t bought the tickets yet but this will be my first GSSP. I was wondering why Uranus and Neptune are swapped. Since I’ll be imaging I’m assuming I should be in that region? At Calstar I could hide all the equipment cause I was over at the edge of the field. Otherwise I’ll just bring a bunch of electrical tape. 

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[Aris Pope]

The Oort cloud is usually where most imagers go. Yes make sure that everything is taped up good no lights.

Aris

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[Joel Lee]

Thanks Aris! Sounds good and will do. 

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[Mark Wagner]

Don't be making light of this topic.

Maybe we need a farther area, past Oort.  Like:  2,000 light years from home (2KLYFH)

What else do the Albaugh's have? ;-)

[Akarsh Simha]

On Thu, Feb 19, 2026 at 9:37 AM 'Richard Navarrete' via The Astronomy Connection (TAC) <sf-ba...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Lots of scopes, for visual and imaging, are run by laptop or smartphone these days. Can we at least discourage red headlamps ? Those things are way too bright and spread light all over the place. Of course, in the end, things will be as they will be, despite best intentions.

I'm dreaming of a crawling robot driven by agentic AI that has lux sensors, and goes around telling people in a southern accent when their red lights are too bright at GSSP. I've heard that bay area high schoolers are always looking for robotics and agentic AI projects. Any takers?

[John Pierce]

On Thu, Feb 19, 2026 at 9:44 AM Joel Lee <joel.l...@gmail.com> wrote:

Haven’t bought the tickets yet but this will be my first GSSP. I was wondering why Uranus and Neptune are swapped. Since I’ll be imaging I’m assuming I should be in that region? At Calstar I could hide all the equipment cause I was over at the edge of the field. Otherwise I’ll just bring a bunch of electrical tape.

hahahah, they are swapped because I created that image at like 2am one night and I *always* confuse them, and a few weeks later the bootleg copy of AI I used stopped working.  Thats Adobe Illustrator, not Artificial Ignorance...    anyways, that was a bunch of years ago, and I don't even know if I still have the .AI original file.    this was like the first and only thing I did with AI, i was stumbling around learning to use a new tool that was rather foreign to me.

re darkest, my experience was, the center of the 'lumpy darkness' area was the darkest, 

[Mark Wagner]

I personally think the only thing needed is a sign at the entry to Oort:

*Zone Of Avoidance*

Dim Red Flashlights Only

No other light emitting allowed

And elsewhere:

"Red headlamps will be sit out."

Mark

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[Richard Ozer]

We pretty much take the opposite approach with respect to designating areas.  The oort cloud has been for Astro-Photographers; a big reason for that is the more random arrangement, distance from visitors on public night, and the use of portable generators.  It makes more sense to keep the big dobs closer in.  Also, as much as I like to listen to myself talk, the Big Dob crowd has always been the heart of the star party.  For a variety of reasons, that crowd needs to be near the hospitality tents and not all the way out in the boonies.  Wrangling committee members all the way from the Oort cloud would require that GSSP purchase a helicopter. 

That doesn't mean you can't set up a big dob in Oort, it just means that there's less dark enforcement out there.  I'm all in favor of more policing in the visual observing areas; we just need people to step up to the task.

RO

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[Peter Natscher]

As an observer,  my personal take about the artificial light intrusion generated within the observing only areas.  It was getting worse each year up to my last GSSP visit in 2019.  The mixed use set up area inbetween vehicle access ways Saturn and Neptune have imagers and observers crowded close together in the middle of the area.  There are imagers with more than one imaging set up that takes up even more set up space. I've arrived early on the morning of GSSP opening time to set up in this mixed use space only to be surrounded a few feet away by multiple imaging set ups by that afternoon. This is very negative for observers.

[Mark Wagner]

That's really what I'm talking about, Peter.12 hours driving tome and fatigue of being up till 3-4, for "dark skies", only to have electronics intrusion and poor flashlight etiquette.  Worth it?

I'd love to hear "problem solved".

Mark

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[Ted Hauter]

We are talking about '27? Surely this year is set.

I have suggested in the past to pass these out with the other hand taking the money for these and the event: necklace sized little red light is plenty, a planospere for folks to find a name of something of interest.

The public nights are pure magic I miss them. Tell these folks no phones or lights allowed and must at least purchase and use this light to enter and heads up this on the website and flyers in and around Adin. Show them the button and how to hold it to make it brightest or dimmer. Tell them to go slow, think, feel, and that they will take something from the sky with them that will always be theirs.

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[miloc...@gmail.com]

Great discussion.  This will cause me to move out away from the dobs, as I do use a (dimmed) phone screen for my smart scope.  Couple of points:

1. For folks showing up with white lights, cut a strip of this stuff and ask them to put it over their light:  Scotch Stucco Tape.  This stuff is magic.  Also useful for dimming your own red lights with enough layers.

2. Sometimes, people have to be told.  I didn't even realize that my headlamp was too bright until someone years ago, at GSSP, yelled at me.  So if someone is using poor etiquette, please ask nicely. And if they don't get the message, feel free to yell and embarrass them.

-Jim B

[Steven R.]

I have an Apertura Ember red-light headlamp, which is criminally bright even on its lowest setting. Adding a red filter doesn't help, because a red filter passes most of the red LED emission.

Instead I use neutral-density film (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BX2YGFY8). I added two layers to get the lamp output to a decent level. Still probably not polite in a dark sky setting.

Cheers,

-Steven

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[Richard Ozer]

I'm mostly staying out of this discussion; but the number one and most vociferous complaint from dark adapted GSSP attendees is "headlamps."  I use pocket or "around the neck" red flashlights only.  Default position is pointing down.

RO

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[Mark Wagner]

I like the days when you'd get into a belly-bucking argument/fight Richard.  Like you and Jim at SSP.

Mark

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[J Bahn]

We tried Steven's solution on our red LED name badges and it works.

JimB

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[Richard Ozer]

I have not since found a worthy opponent!

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[Alex]

A cozy eyepatch is the best insurance at any minimally dedicated starparty over 3.

[Alex]

Talking about the GSSP layout map, I wonder if the "No Camping zone" and "No driving road" are actually still enforced? Without that you will have plenty of red flashing objects forming in the "Unknown ranking" but looking flat enough and also red sector South-West from the Lumpy Darkness in no time aside from more sand on your mirrors. Perhaps, it could be possible to extend orbits for giant planets further West all the way to the Abyss fence? As direct witness lovers seem expanding (assuming that sector is not preserved for the livestock anymore) that would eliminate the "red road paradox" existence completely.

[Jay Freeman]

On Feb 21, 2026, at 14:00, Alex <alex.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

A cozy eyepatch is the best insurance at any minimally dedicated starparty over 3.

And don't forget tin-foil hats to protect our brains from radiation from the mother ship. That and a black eyepatch will scare anybody into turning off all the lights you want ...

Arrrrrrrrr!!!!

--  Jay Reynolds Freeman, Deep-Sky Space Pirate Controlled By Aliens From Zeta Reticuli
---------------------
Jay_Reynol...@mac.com
http://JayReynoldsFreeman.com (personal web site)

[Alex]

Tin foil is too reflective, Jay! That's a no no! You have to soot it on the campfire first (take care of that beforehand in the daytime, please!) :)

For imagers with Smart Scopes and EAA enthusiasts, I could suggest another type of the "eye patch" I'm using myself too for a couple of years: https://www.dobmod.com/2025/04/my-eaa-rig-for-seestar-s50.html 

When correctly implemented, this gag could significantly reduce accidental screen light leaking, as well as dramatically improving the screen viewing experience at the same time. Laptop owners might leverage the remote desktop software on their phone to use it too (see the option with the virtual trackpad). Add LAN on a portable wifi router and you can broadcast your screen for anyone interested around. Note for iPhone owners: iOS is still too primitive for handling required screen setup/multitasking level (e.g. no split screen support).

[Peter Santangeli]

Screen dimming on phones is far too bright for any real event.

I've only briefly tried it, but I heartily recommend the remote idea. For iPhones/Mac on the latest software the built in phone mirroring is excellent, and you can just use the standard 'tap plastic' idea on your laptop and keep the phone in a cardboard box or something after you have set it up and connected.

pete

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[David Kirjassoff]

I have this shortcut set up on my iPhone.  Triple clicking the side button toggles it on.  Is this sufficiently dark for a dark sky site?

David

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 24, 2026, at 4:58 PM, Peter Santangeli <pe...@santangeli.net> wrote:



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[Alex]

Pete, screen dimming is not a problem on AMOLED screens, but dimming is irrelevant to EAA / DI light pollution problem in general, as both are after the nice bright screen picture and easy to see UI feedback respectively anyway. The problem is the hard to fully enclose large bright screen when you want to see it in all its glory but bystanders don't. The modern solution to this problem is AR glasses/headsets. But you can get a much better custom-tailored to our subject matter result by DIY. Though a low fidelity red film on a TFT laptop screen is a plain torture and does not fully solve the problem as you need to scale the box further, e.g. into a good "dark room" tent or a camper, as the light reflects from your face badly too.

On Tue, Feb 24, 2026 at 4:58 PM Peter Santangeli <pe...@santangeli.net> wrote:

Screen dimming on phones is far too bright for any real event.

...

pete

[Alex]

David, it depends on the phone model and the app you plan to use on it.

On Tue, Feb 24, 2026 at 5:52 PM David Kirjassoff <dkirj...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have this shortcut set up on my iPhone.  Triple clicking the side button toggles it on.  Is this sufficiently dark for a dark sky site?

...

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