Astro software seems like garbage. A rant because I am not that CalStar

[Jeff Gortatowsky]

My apologies for the rant... well not really.

I have

Sky Safari Pro

SkyMap Pro

Astroplanner

Skytools 3

Skytools 4

StarryNight 7

StarryNight 8

Cartes Du Ceil

HNSky

DeepSky Planner 8

There may be others... 

Each and every one does not seem to be able to do the simplest IMO task  (and I am 35 years in the business as a BASIC, Assembler, FORTH, C, C++, Java, and Kotlin software engineer). But not of course as an astro-soft developer.

All I wanted to do is :

Given a 60mm telescope (or whatever), under steady bortle 8 skies (or cloudy for all I care), give me a list of double stars in Auriga (or anywhere else) that the diminutive 60mm is remotely capable of splitting between 10pm and 2am PDT at 33 degrees north / 118 west. AND PLOT those on a map I can print with the designation, the magnitudes of  the double, and the separation. I don't want an iPad (I have several) or laptop (ditto) next to me. A SINGLE map with those basics! And heaven forbid a telrad circle around each! :)

Alas... does anyone know of anything that can do that? Anything? I post here because of the interest in planning software.

Clear skies!

[Akarsh Simha]

For something like this, you may need to write your own code. If you can write Python, look into astropy and astroquery modules — astroquery can query SIMBAD etc and there should be a way to get a list from it.

Many years ago, I built the observation planner in KStars around what I thought was the ideal observing workflow. If you are going to use your laptop on the field, and you already have your list of double stars (SIMBAD-friendly designations) I believe you should be able to ingest the list and have the software tell you which object is well-placed as you work through the night.

Regards

Akarsh

Clear skies!

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[Pawan Singh]

I am able to get very close to what you are asking for using Skytools. Two years ago, I did this for GSSP for some observing list. You can use the database search tool to find the list of objects with some criteria and create a list. Once list is created, you can filter it based on the telescope, eyepiece, location, the night of observing, time range, difficulty of splitting stars, etc... Once you have the filter done, you can click on "thumbnails" view and change it to the largest setting. It fits 4 objects on a page.

It is not perfect - but it worked well enough.

In SkyTools4, you can right click and select items from the list and then right click on the column to generate printable charts per item with space for notes, etc...

Pawan

[Tan usa1]

Go to telescopious

Choose your equipment and select target

But it still can’t tell you what targets will be great. Having something like this will be amazing 

[Christopher Kelly]

AstroPlanner would do all that...but in 2005 or so I made the transition to Sky Safari on iPad, and my progress went downhill.   A new version was released in Aug 2020....I think I'll download it again.

Good luck.  Others will have different opinions of course.

Clears

Chris

[Christopher Kelly]

Oops ...I see you mentioned Astroplanner.

Chris

[Jeff Gortatowsky]

Ok while this is not 'ideal' and I'd settle for the LABELS, this is what I mean. This was created with SkyMap Pro 12 and I added the QuikFinder circles and labels. 

I know the QF circles would be hard to code... but not the labels! :)

[Lumpy Darkness]

Why do you not want a laptop or iPad next to you?  Just preference?  I find having my laptop planetarium program very useful at the eyepiece, in fact much more so than a printed chart.

[Alex]

I think, there are two problems here. You want to print from a mobile, which is a nonsense already, but most importantly you want it represented in a certain way, which is obviously that weird paper representation desire bound. :) e.g. who needs labels on the chart? They don't help to observe, rather getting into the way.  

Mobile astronomy apps are made to support real life tasks with the help of a handheld mobile device, not for the fancy printing press designing. There are desktop apps for that and the Google Office.

Thus, instead of adapting apps, I would adapt my observing flow. First of: get rid of paper.

No offence, but might be an inappropriate English use. Sorry for that.

----

Alex

[Richard Ozer]

Uh Oh

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[Lumpy Darkness]

Too bad the list doesn't generally know the giddy laughter behind an Ozer "uh oh"....

Mark Wagner

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[Alex]

I've been too rough? Apologies.

If just for an exquisite personal fun? Sure, just DIY. In DSO Planner, I'm eager to offer development efforts for an arbitrary API of your design for your arbitrary side feature along with its open code integration in the nearest release (our side final testing help is possible but not guaranteed). E.g. codename "Android Spherical Projection PDF Writer Presenter Builder". Jeff should be familiar with the whole flow of that mind tree.

---

Alex

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s@

[Jeff Gortatowsky]

For Pete's sake. 

Folks wait... let me post from Cloudy NIghts

For the record I use SkyMap Pro 12 (SMP)  (or its earlier versions since v5) for at least the last 15 to 20+ years at my large telescopes at star parties. My 45 cm dob and I tracked down 100s and 100s of faint fuzzies using SMP as our chart on a Dell OLD Laptop (now an OLD HP), and to this day it's my program of choice IF I WANT TO HAUL more junk out. At a star party for several nights, it is the bomb. There is no sub for being able to filter stars and place circles on the display if not goto'ing. Especially if you are tracking down stellar Pnebs in the MW where there are stars galore!

 

SMP is still the only program IMO that acts / looks like a printed atlas from Becvar on to SA2000, on to the Millenium SA,  only better. If only it would have more labeling choices, I'd not even have posted.  

  

Sky Safari for the record is (IMNSHO) a terrible tool for star hopping, You either use it as the author intended or you are stuck. What it IS great for is if you have Wifi goto! Like using my SW AzAi or my  ServoCat. (The 45cm was DSC/Computer-less.) It's fun and awesome. Or sitting on the John browsing.

 

Tell me how to put more than ONE Telrad circle on the display? And not on the target object. Oh wait you can't. How about put an arbitrary set of FOV circles on anything but the target. Just anywhere on the display. How about rotate the FOV regardless what it 'thinks' the orientation should be. All of those were available in Sky Map Pro 5 15 years or more ago. Many/Most still won't let you simply rotate the FOV as you wish.

 

I try to like Sky Safari. As a cool iPad program, it's nice. And as a wifi remote, its fun! As a planner/charting/starhopping tool I find it leaves much to be desired. 

 

HOWEVER: Each to their own! 

 

 

And this was not supposed to be a printed vs electronic discussion. Plop down the scope, push it round using the little piece of paper I printed and the telrad... Find things. Look down again, there is the next way to 'push' the scope... right their on a letter size custom made piece of paper! Works for me. 

I could rant on... 

Jeff Gortatowsky, Redondo Beach, CA | Twitter: JeffGortatowsky | Yahoo: indanapt
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/jeffgortatowsky

"Skepticism is a provisional approach to claims. It is the application of reason to any and all ideas — no sacred cows allowed. In other words, (science and) skepticism is a method, not a position." - M. Shermer

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[Alex]

No problemo, Jeff!

But that CN post makes it even more puzzling. The need of labels was already obscure to me, but why would anyone ever want more than one Telrad circle on the chart? Do you have multiple Telrads on your scope? Or you are running a farm of telescopes simultaneously for a group? And why would you want circles not on your target?

Wait!!! Maybe for angular measurements??? That's it! But seriously, wasn't that someone's very old side-idea about Telrad's use as a sky ruler taken way too far? All the way for trying to replace the proper visual star hopping flow? That's the reason??? C'mon! Forget that pointless torture! You could never hop like that more than twice and stay as accurate as Telrad truly could be with just one hop ever needed for pointing with Telrad. You could indeed use it as a ruler, but just for curiosity sake only. Not for finding objects. If you see enough stars to place multiple Telrads between some bright star and your intended target then you can as well find your target immediately placing Telrad rings between the last hop of stars and enjoying an order of magnitude higher probability your scope is on target due to the zero error accumulation guarantee. Paper or digital. That is especially true for the SkySafari, which rings are of a fixed size, so they are always adding a systematic angular error when stacked. I could understand beginners, not knowing any constellations but the Big Dipper, trying that trick. But after just a dozen nights with the Planisphere (any digital chart with the giro-compass feature is preferable) anyone could memorize a hundred or two of stars in simple figures.

Regarding the chart rotation... I'm rotating my digital chart right at the eyepiece for the past 10+ years without a single grim thought or desire to improve anything. It's a handheld chart. Rotate it as you pleased. Naturally. Same as a paper chart, by the way. But compared to a piece of paper I can also mirror it, automatically align to the gravity vector, and most importantly zoom in and out as needed to match my eye view. Thus, no need for an iPad screen (which is trying to mimic a piece of paper), use a smaller handheld to mimic your eyepiece view right away without any intermediary entity ever needed.

Still no idea why I might need any labels on the finding chart? I indeed see them as a scientific way to share my target with others (Hey Joe, have you separated Big Dipper's Xi already?), but to observe it I need just my easy to comprehend list of targets for the night just so I could tap them one by one to mark the place on the chart where to go. To navigate there I would rather prefer a clear sky view on the screen without any garbage which I could not see in the sky or in the eyepiece. What I'm missing?

Again no offence, just puzzled with your software requirements practicality :)

Cheers!
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Alex

[Jeff Gortatowsky]

I give up. I showed a chart I made in that thread. Drop it. No one but me gets it. 

Which is WHY it probably is not done!

Oh SNAP! Sky Map Pro allows marking up the chart as you pls with circles galore! Just not the labels I needed.

Why would I need more than one on the paper? Because I am too dumb to be able to find anything without hopping off something bright. Circle by circle.

On a simple little piece o paper.

[Richard Ozer]

ROTFL.

Circles and Arrows!!

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[Alex]

Haven't seen your chart above, nor a link to the CN thread where to check it. But it looks like I've guessed it almost right. So, you seem to be unable following naked eye star hopping "asterisms" a.k.a. "Constellations" naturally? Is that due to the severe light pollution in your area? But how are you stacking circles then from A to B, if you can't see where to place the next one in the sky? Just guessing where to move it in the void relatively to the previous position? Even following the proper direction seems like a nightmare in such a flow. Have you ever actually succeeded? :))) It is surely possible that you have an outstanding visual and motor memory to perform that. But then memorizing constellations' brightest stars should not be a problem either. Perhaps, the overcrowded paper chart is exactly what's confusing your asterisms comprehension? As the conversion of black disks varying in size on a red piece of paper into shiny dots in the black sky is not a trivial brain exercise either, especially with a bunch of Telrad reticles and dense lettering printed on it all around :))) 

(still no hint of why a finding chart for a single target needs many labels?)

On a side note, with the proper digital chart it's quite natural to star-hop long stretches right in the main EP (with a reasonably wide FOV) having the handheld side by side with the view (all the way to looking with both eyes open (one to the EP one to the chart with the matching EP FOV zoom) if the vision prescription permits. I'm often doing that to hop to a nearby target within 5 degrees from the current one without switching to Telrad/QuInsight. But I've been practicing 90 degrees stretches as well. Tedious, but 100% reliable compared to "staking Telrads". QuInsight, by the way, is great for "poor" constellations like Hydra and in the light polluted sky, as you can still find enough stars around your target to match the chart within or close to its 16 degrees outer ring. But it's not good on paper due to typical atlases' projection "aberrations" preventing exact matching of the rings drawn on them as ordinary circles.

---
Alex

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