IC 1101

[Vishal Kasliwal]

I ran across IC 1101 thanks to a thread on cloudy nights. What's interesting about this object is that it was discovered in 1790 by W. Herschel but for reasons unknown to me, was not included in the NGC. I have always been under the impression that they NGC was a superset of everything that the three Herschels found along with a few other catalogs. How many more such objects are there that were discovered by a Herschel but not included in the NGC? Does anyone know the history of this object - why did it never make its way into the NGC?

-Vishal

[Mark]

I bet it's in the RNGC.  I wonder if anyone here worked on that? ;-)

[Richard Ozer]

I don't see it in the RNGC.  I tried looking it up by RA/Dec.

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[Mark W]

Actually it wouldn't be.  But I think the history Vishal is looking for might be found in Steve's NGC/IC notes.

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[Mark W]

Edward Swift, the son of Lewis Swift, discovered IC 1101 = Sw. 9-47 on 19 Jun 1890 at the age of 19.  Lewis noted that he and Edward disagreed on the description after the telescope was moved, and as a result no description is given in Swift's 9th discovery list.  In his survey of NGC/IC objects around 1900, Herbert Howe found it to be "extremely faint and very small.  A star of mag 13 follows 1.5 seconds...and another precedes 2 seconds, a little north."  UGC does not label their entry (UGC 9752) as IC 1101

On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 12:42 PM Richard Ozer <rich...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Alan Agrawal]

Hi,

Herschel discovered 8 or 9 IC objects.  ( and apparently IC 1101 was not one of them). Only one of these appear in Herschel’s catalogues, which is IC 3668, part of NGC 4668.

Best,

Alan

On Mar 12, 2023, at 11:56 AM, Vishal Kasliwal <vishal....@gmail.com> wrote:



I ran across IC 1101 thanks to a thread on cloudy nights. What's interesting about this object is that it was discovered in 1790 by W. Herschel but for reasons unknown to me, was not included in the NGC. I have always been under the impression that they NGC was a superset of everything that the three Herschels found along with a few other catalogs. How many more such objects are there that were discovered by a Herschel but not included in the NGC? Does anyone know the history of this object - why did it never make its way into the NGC?

-Vishal

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[Richard Ozer]

FWIW, Wikipedia attributes its discovery to Herschel ( 19 June 1790.)  However the author's citation, from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, has no original source cited in turn.  So maybe it was discovered by George Santos.

Rich 

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[Akarsh Simha]

http://haroldcorwin.net/ngcic/icnotes.all

I’m surprised Harold Corwin has nothing on IC1101

I like the theory that it was discovered by George Santos.

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[Jamie Dillon, DDK]

Gottlieb must be elsewhere on a Sunday. His whole note on IC 1101 is interesting, this is a serious galaxy.

>>>

IC 1101 = UGC 9752 = CGCG 049-023 = PGC 54167

15 10 56.1 +05 44 41; Vir

V = 13.7;  Size 1.2'x0.6';  Surf Br = 13.2;  PA = 23°

 

18" (6/30/11): this supergiant cD galaxy is the central galaxy in AGC 2029 (z = .078 at 1.0 billion light years!).  At 280x, it appeared very faint, very small, slightly elongated ~N-S, ~15"x10".  Visible continuously with averted vision.  The galaxy is centered within a 9-member circlet of 12th- to 14th-magnitude stars and squeezed between a mag 14.7 star 27" E and a mag 15-15.5 star 47" WNW (just slightly south of a line connecting these stars).  No other members of the cluster were seen.  I also viewed IC 1101 at a similar magnification in a 24" f/3.3 and logged it as "faint, very small, oval 3:2 N-S, ~20"x14".  Could just hold steadily with direct vision."

 

Wikipedia states this galaxy is the largest known in the universe, from 5-6 million light years.  A 1991 paper by Uson, Boughn, & Kuhn (ApJ, 369, 46) gives a slightly smaller, though still extremely large diameter of 4 million light years.

 

Edward Swift, the son of Lewis Swift, discovered IC 1101 = Sw. 9-47 on 19 Jun 1890 at the age of 19.  Lewis noted that he and Edward disagreed on the description after the telescope was moved, and as a result no description is given in Swift's 9th discovery list.  In his survey of NGC/IC objects around 1900, Herbert Howe found it to be "extremely faint and very small.  A star of mag 13 follows 1.5 seconds...and another precedes 2 seconds, a little north."  UGC does not label their entry (UGC 9752) as IC 1101.

 

This is a super-giant cD in the center of AGC 2029 at a distance of 1.07 billion light years (slightly larger redshift than AGC 2065!).  IC 1101 is certainly one of the most distant galaxies discovered visually (and possibly the most distant)!

>>>

[Akarsh Simha]

IC 1101 is one of the largest galaxies known and studied. I believe it was dethroned by Ton 618, which is a quasar at a whopping 10.8 Gy light travel time. I observed Ton 618 through my 18” from Shot Rock, and IC 1101 through Alan Agrawal’s 24” at the last GSSP.

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[Richard Ozer]

Akarsh, you are correct that it was dethroned. Rather than the King, it is now merely the King's Regent.

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[Steve Gottlieb]

Was driving home from the Seattle area.  Quite an impressive amount of snow in the Shasta area.

[John Pierce]

On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 10:03 PM Steve Gottlieb <astrog...@gmail.com> wrote:

Was driving home from the Seattle area.  Quite an impressive amount of snow in the Shasta area.

I bet.     Last time I came down that way was July 2021, and Shasta was scary bare...   This is the view from the north side, southbound on I5.

 

[Vishal Kasliwal]

Fascinating. I had never heard of the Swifts prior to this - another father-son pair! Can you correct the Wikipedia article - you have all the facts at hand. I can do so otherwise based off your reply.

-Vishal

On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 2:06 AM Steve Gottlieb <steve_g...@comcast.net> wrote:

Harold Corwin has nothing written on IC 1101 since there's no controversy regarding the discovery or identification.  In general, he documented the correct identification for all objects that were either "lost" or misidentified.  IC 1101 doesn't fall in either category.

The bottom line is Wikipedia is absolutely wrong (and whatever source they used).  As Mark mentioned I give the discovery story for the entire NGC here.  IC 1101 was discovered in 1890, well after the passing of William, Caroline and their son John Herschel.

There are two interesting facts regarding the discovery --

1)  The galaxy was discovered by a teenager (Lewis Swift's son Edward).  Lewis is perhaps best known for the co-discovery of the period comet Swift-Tuttle, the parent comet of the Perseid meteor shower.

2)   IC 1101 is one of the most distant galaxies discovered visually at 1 billion light years.

Steve

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