With the Hong Kong stuff happening, I spotted this
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Although mesh on the phones works in my mind using Wi-Fi to a router might be better. Tp-link for example have at least one that can be powered from USB so a battery pack.
Then you need to address identifying the phones and perhaps run a mesh network on the routers. Commotion is one possibility.Messaging needs to be done over the top.
Anyway just idle thoughts although if it could be put together then it opens up a lot of possibilities. Not least is Wi-Fi with the right equipment can work over 15 km or more using standard protocols.
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Hello,
Cheerio John
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Comment one is a phone to phone wifi maximum distance is shorter than a phone to router distance. Typically routers have better aerials and stronger signals.
Comment two is to do with Serval's niche. The rate of change in communication networks and computers is rapid. Remember Fidonet? It came before the internet and was a way to exchange email and messages on low band width dial up connections. It would zip the messages to compress them to keep bandwidth requirements down. Routers can now be run off a USB power supply. Different versions of Android support different WiFi options. These are all big changes.
Serval being university based means they have to plan what to do, then ask nicely for funding, then do it. Takes a longer time than someone writing an app that runs over WiFi Direct.Serval does three things at the client end, messaging, file transfer and voice. It started off with all three. Voice over a mesh network is difficult because of lag. The newer flasher peer to peer software mainly do just the easy bit of messaging.
Then you get to the requirements. If internet access is cheap enough and available it offers a lot more options. In a disaster scenario internet access may not be available or if it is it will be a slow satellite connection.
Often if you can preplan something it's cheaper. The Red Cross for example has a Intel NUC preloaded with software it uses for communication etc in Africa.
Then you get to what are you trying to do and how much money do you have.Can you combine requirements and resources? That takes planning and time and time is often a luxury you don't have in responding to a disaster.
If you have the local expertise then I think a Commotion network with an email server (Postfix?)
and possibly an Asterisk voip server although I've never managed to get Asterisk configured to send SMS messages would work well but setting it up, configuring it and keeping it maintained would be interesting. Note an SSD can be plugged into a Router USB port these days to give you NAS file sharing with vengeance, microSD cards are an alternative. It's main advantage is that clients can continue to use their software they're used to and training is a killer. The other plus side would be that emails could be sent to clients outside the network if even a slow internet connection was available at odd hours. Typically 2 am to 8 am internet connections are much cheaper. The drawback is it takes time and expertise to set up, Serval doesn't.
How far could you get with a router with memory for file sharing? I'm not sure but it could do simple messaging its when you want to extend it beyond one router or LAN that it gets difficult and that is where Serval comes in.
I think the core functionality of Serval is good. I'm not terribly happy with the way it changes the name of the phone, and I look forward to seeing a way to extend messaging and file transmission off the Serval mesh network.
Cheerio JohnOn Thu, 5 Sep 2019 at 23:58, 'Roland Turner' via Serval Project Developers <serval-proje...@googlegroups.com> wrote:Why is that device useful as a range extender? It appears to be a low power (63mW) 2.4GHz-only WiFi-only access point.
- Roland
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Greetz, yanosz
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Greetz, yanosz
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Hello,
Am 11/09/2019 um 19.54 schrieb Paul Gardner-Stephen:
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 at 03:02, yanosz <serval-...@yanosz.net
> <mailto:serval-...@yanosz.net>> wrote:
> Am 11/09/2019 um 18.47 schrieb Paul Gardner-Stephen:
>
> Yes, I agree that the Serval app should work when Internet is available
> as well, if we can muster the development effort to do so. Really the
> implicit goal of Serval is to make messaging possible regardless of the
> crazy communications channels available. The Mesh Extender can be seen
> as a radio to wifi abstraction layer in this sense.
>
> Our challenge right now is that we don't have the resources to push
> ahead on this. If folks were interested in helping out on this front,
> that would be super welcome.
Well... I think its to help out, since its very complicated task.
I stumbled up on this:
- Is there any documentation on the protocols in use? I tried to
understand
https://github.com/servalproject/serval-dna/blob/development/doc/REST-API-MeshMS.md
but I'm confused: On the one hand it describes a RESTApi of a service -
on the other hand, I expect the client to be a node in a DTN. - Is there
an API, that follows some existing protocols (e.g. FCM, MQTT), that
could be resused?
- IMHO you cannot just write an App to do so, since a stable connection
to arbitrary message brokers violates a lot of assumptions, that are
present in many platforms (esp. energy savings). Creating some kind of
offline FCM would require coordination with google, but I don't know any
folks, there.
- IMHO its worth to consider building a cellular network (e.g. LTE-U)
for the access part (i.e. connection to end-devices).
It's not absurd, I guess (e.g. https://www.nist.gov/ctl/pscr/openfirst -
but this is going to have a huge impact on the network architecture at all.
Greetz, yanosz
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Hello,
- IMHO its worth to consider building a cellular network (e.g. LTE-U)
for the access part (i.e. connection to end-devices).
It's not absurd, I guess (e.g. https://www.nist.gov/ctl/pscr/openfirst -
but this is going to have a huge impact on the network architecture at all.
Unfortunately it turns out to be practically impossible during either civil unrest or a natural disaster to get the necessary permissions to import let alone turn on any cellular equipment. We know this from Red Cross and many others. Cellular is great in theory, but practically impossible in practice.
Note that LTE-U appears to have been designed by telcos to facilitate freezing out of non-telco use of ISM bands, in contrast to LAA which is designed to cooperate with other uses. Quite why the FCC permitted what amounts to deliberate interference ("unprotected basis" is not a license to interfere; not only does LTE-U not listen-before-talk on ISM bands, it doesn't even deploy a receiver with which it could do so), however MulteFire has been designed by equipment manufacturers (over telco objections, which is why it's not happening inside 3GPP) to operate entirely within ISM bands. If the handset manufacturers ever do include support in their factory builds then it will be feasible to over at least some LTE service over unlicensed spectrum, which would fit this use case rather well.
- Roland
- Roland
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Hello,
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 at 10:30, 'Roland Turner' via Serval Project Developers <serval-proje...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Note that LTE-U appears to have been designed by telcos to facilitate freezing out of non-telco use of ISM bands, in contrast to LAA which is designed to cooperate with other uses. Quite why the FCC permitted what amounts to deliberate interference ("unprotected basis" is not a license to interfere; not only does LTE-U not listen-before-talk on ISM bands, it doesn't even deploy a receiver with which it could do so), however MulteFire has been designed by equipment manufacturers (over telco objections, which is why it's not happening inside 3GPP) to operate entirely within ISM bands. If the handset manufacturers ever do include support in their factory builds then it will be feasible to over at least some LTE service over unlicensed spectrum, which would fit this use case rather well.
Well, it can remove the spectrum barrier, but not the regulatory barriers, e.g., the need to hold a public telecommunications license or equivalent, and all the obligations that come with that, which are based on licensees being large organisations.
Not at all. Whether your on-air protocol is WiFi, Bluetooth, or LTE doesn't change your regulatory position by itself. The obligations that you're describing will arise equally in a Serval mesh if you provide a gateway to the public network somewhere in the mesh and charge for its use. So long as you remain a "closed user group", these obligations don't arise.
MulteFire is interesting because of the moderate likelihood that handset manufacturers will include it in their factory builds, which we can safely assume will never be true for Serval. If - and only if - this actually happens then it is possible to support a far better provisioning model:
Etc.
This is not to say that the Android<->Android capabilities of Serval aren't interesting, just that the moment that you introduce infrastructure, all of the trade-offs change.
- Roland