Cool web interface

[Tiberius Brastaviceanu]

Hi all,

What do you think about this website?

https://www.infinity-labs.eu/home 

Here's the source code

https://github.com/zircleUI/zircleUI

Thanks Daniel Klier and Wael for sharing that.

I was thinking these days about these types of interfaces.

Perhaps a 2D layout of the information, something that looks more like a city map, would be more intuitive.

During the COVID series of hackathons I saw people using https://miro.com/

Ah, ...  you remember https://prezi.com/ the presentation tool?

This is part of a broader reflection about how to move away from the current website paradigm, which is essentially a digital version of a book, with static structure and pages. I suppose that 30 years after the invention of the Internet we can move further away from the paper-based information layout, a legacy that still traps our imagination.

The hyperlink only made it easy to jump from one page to another, or from one book to another, but we still consume information predominantly in a linear fashion.

Even dynamic websites like Facebook, where every user sees a different thing, we're still all trapped into a single layout, with "Walls" and "Facebook pages".

Today, the web digital / virtual environment is not just a space where we consume information (read text, watch videos) or chat. It is increasingly used as a space for collaboration. It is our virtual office (here the conceptual evolution is similar to the desktop, the environment in which you work on your computer), it is increasingly becoming our virtual enterprise. Especially in the post-COVID world where many people will never go back to work from their physical office. 

Back in 2010 (if I remember correctly), Yevette Dubel, artist, proposed for Sensorica a 3D, game-type environment as the interface of an online collaborative space. She was ahead of the game, as many artists are :) Here's an example of that.

Anyone has other crazy ideas about future web interfaces?

Have some examples?

Post them here.

Yes, virtual and augmented reality... but is there something that requires only currently ubiquitous tech and doesn't scare people away?

;-) to Noah and Martin from the OCC, where we are also discussing digital environments.  

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[Dmitry Sokolov]

Hi Tiberius,

it all depends on purpose of a website and your vision of collaboration.
We need to distinguish browsing vs search vs direct access to topics of current and particular interest. Different modes are good for different purposes.

More on:

• LikeInMind Communication Protocol
• Direct Access to Particular Knowledge
• LikeInMind Search Modes
  

Please let me know if something important or interesting is missing.

Cheers,
Dmitry
R&D Manager
LikeInMind
Dmitry Sokolov
PhD Phys, MEng, MPA

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[Tiberius Brastaviceanu]

Hi Dmitry,

Yes, I agree.

it all depends on purpose of a website and your vision of collaboration.
We need to distinguish browsing vs search vs direct access to topics of current and particular interest. Different modes are good for different purposes.

I left the context out of my message. It was implicit that we were in the context of Sensorica (with all the activities that we engage in on a daily basis, including being at the Sensorica lab and working on hardware development while collaborating online at the same time).

Perhaps if you go over the website you'll get a sense of it...

[Dmitry Sokolov]

Thank you Tiberius,

it can be difficult to guess the actual flows of resources, information and values without being a part of it.
I have curated information and knowledge for a few projects based on the LiM Communication Protocol.
A structure of one of them can be seen here. However, it may be difficult to guess on the actual processes just looking on the footprints.

Let's start talking to see what will emerge from it.
Looking forward to learning your experience of management of value flows, from the very beginning of our communication.

With kind regards,
Dmitry

[Tiberius Brastaviceanu]

Hi Dmitry,

Nice discussion! So yes, some type of DLT (Distributed Ledger Technology) plus AI (artificial intelligence) would boost Sensorica a lot.

We went over p2pModels and Holochain, our NRP-CAS.

I am also happy to collaborate on user experience and user interface. As you said, a simple mobile app would increase the adoption rate of the NRP-CAS.

Here's where we're going with the infrastructure - NOTE: this doc is not organized coherently and does not represent a plan. It has evolved organically from an initial plan to a collection of ideas and tangents.

See more on our page on Digital environment.

You touched on Collective Intelligence. Important topic. Let's dig more on that next time. I'll show you what we do about it, and we can try to find shared interest there too.

[Tiberius Brastaviceanu]

Another interesting digital space for OVNs is the Federated Wiki. Here's a link to Dmitry's repository, thanks Dmitry for bring this to my attention. 

http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/103571405/Smallest%20Federated%20Wiki

The idea here is that projects gain even more authonomy. If you have a project you can host it. It dosen't have to be on a website. If people agree on a template for projects, it becomes easy to navigate from one project to another, while preserving a similar user experience. You like my project, join us. Don't agree with how things are done, fork it. When you fork a project you fork everything, the documentation, the methodology, the layout, the governance, and you apply your changes to it. I like what you did on top of my project, I merge it with my project and I continue. Later you can fork it again. You can only fork what's virtual. You can't fork the heavy stuff, a lab, materials, equipment, contributors to the project. The heavy stuff will add stickiness to projects, activity will concentrate where heavy stuff concentrates. But the entire structure and all the virtual assets can be forked. 

The step from the wiki to the federated wiki is to add a fork button on every page. You can trace this idea of forkable projects in Sensorica as well. In our TEDx video I talk about a forkable open enterprise. Any project within and OVN is seen as an open venture or enterprise. 

https://youtu.be/Ixgp8_B9g5A

I think Holochain will also allow these kin of things. 

I see a lot of resistance from people to bring their projects to Sensorica. Why should I put my project on some platform? There are advantages to this, we agree. But ego sometimes gets in the way of doing the best thing. I can do better. I want to be different. I want people to know that I did this or that. Is that wrong? Perhaps that is irrational in some circumstances. But that's human nature and why fight with it. If Sensorica was operating on Federated Wiki or something similar, people would show less resistance, because they will not have the impression that they put their content and work on someone else's platform. Even if we always say that Sensorica belongs to all the contributors, based on their contributions, very few people understand it and take ownership. It's less about "who this thing belongs to", and more about "this thing doesn't belong to me", as in "I don't own it, I can't control it alone". So people feel that they are on someone else's turf when they are invited to put their project on Sensorica. The nondominium form of property is still very poorly understood or integrated, even by some who follow things in Sensorica. Have YOU integrated this concept? How much do you feel that you are entitled  to take initiative in Sensorica? Just a test... 

With the Fedeeated Wiki projects can be hosted by those who work on them. 

We still need to adhereto something, to a common UI and UX. For the OVN to function efficiently users need a unified experience. We want people to be able to navigate easily from one project to the next, to contribute, fork and remix. We want the fluidity of Github, but in a more decentralized way. 

Perhaps the OVN is the killer app of the Federated Wiki platform ?!

Not only people could fork projects, but also, people who have started a project independently can join a cluster of projects. Projects, since they are hosted by participants autonomously, can decide to belong to one or another agglomeration of projects, which can share a brand name and some particularities in terms of governance or culture. Projects can "vote with their feet" and move from one cluster to another, detach themselves from one cluster and go with anothe. This is an amazing idea! Usualy projects get abandoned or destroyed, teams get dispersed, institutional knowledge gets dissolved when a project is trapped into a controlled environment and people are not happy with that environment. What if these people could cut the rope and dock into another environment? We would be much less wasteful in our development processes. 

Wonder what Pos pi has to say... 

[pospi `]

Hah! Going to tag me in, eh? Well I am CCing Eduardo from the EYSS development team because they are building a wiki implementation on Holochain currently and I am sure would at least be interested in these thoughts.

I think you definitely have something here, at least in the sense of wiki / knowledgebase as a central component of any organisation's software tooling. We were discussing Hylo a lot in a call the other week; one interesting reflection was that there is no "springboard" for comms in a value network if we only consider the core components of REA. So though we may add a threaded comments module in order to engage in dialogue about any economic entity (event, intent, proposal, whatever...), there is no place to start the relationships or to provide context for those joining the network prior to engaging in economic interactions.

What do those spaces look like? Chat rooms? Message boards? Both, and others?

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[Tiberius Brastaviceanu]

Hi Pospi, Eduardo and the rest.

Sorry for the delay, I am planning my disappearance from the civilized world for two weeks :)

We'll continue the discussion after, but here's some input for now.

The overarching topic here is digital environment. To give something to people to hang on, here's the Sensorica page on its own digital environment.

This thread started as a provocation about UI (user interface). In my second post I switched to digital environment architecture. We can push this further.

The desire is to move away from a monolithic digital environment that is centrally controlled or administered. We usually make analogies between digital environments and physical environments. We have a very interesting physical representation of what I am looking for in the digital world. Take for instance a traditional nation state and a seateading community. See this short video and note that we don't need to consider the entire ideology or motivation behind the seasteading movement, only to consider the idea of physical spaces (platforms at sea) which form and dismantle dynamically, as people decide to dock their little platform to the larger seastead or to move it somewhere else. On the flip side, traditional nation states are like today's platforms with very high leaving/switching costs.

Another physical example is an ad hoc farmers market (pic below). Farmers come on a Sunday morning and set up shop in a location that hasn't been designed for commerce (can be a football field). Their tents (the way they are placed, the service that they offer) create an entirely new space. This new space comes with its own rules / governance. It provides a user / customer + vender experience. But at nightfall it dissipates. Every tent is an independent commercial operation (a project in our case). These commercial units (projects) assemble voluntarily and their aggregate forms a new space. Any vendor can decide to leave and join another farmers market somewhere else, they are only loosely associated. In the US, if you travel across the country, you'll find that the experience in farmer's markets are pretty similar, a shared UI / UX.

Now, we need to realize that the farmer's market is very different from Wholefoods, also an aggregate of produce from different farmers, but functioning more like a monolithic platform.

The digital environment for OVNs should look more like a seasteading community or like a farmer's market. These environments are pretty complex. They don't just sustain discussions on top of transactions and resource management. We need more than message boards and chat rooms. Complex socioeconomic activity needs to be contained within these spaces. Moreover, the social and economic reality of OVNs is very different than in traditional organisations.

On the Homepage of Sensorica we present the OVN as "A stigmergic environment for synergistic open innovation". It might look like a catchy phrase to hook people in, but Sensorica has never been too good at doing that. Every letter of these words weighs heavy for us. We go to great lengths to make our environment more stigmergic and make our processes, using very rudimentary tools.  This document template, which can be considered as a digital environment for co-creation of text, is a proof of that. Just looking at this document alone you can spot many features that a digital space designed for collaboration must have. Yes, there is the comment and the chat capabilities that Google Docs has implemented, great features, attached to this particular environment (to every doc you make). But there is more that Google provides and that we create in the doc, on top of Google's functionality.

If we take a look at a project page on Sensorica, we see integration of various sub-spaces: communication; planning and coordination; repository; deliberation / negotiation / governance; accounting / resource planning; ...

There's a lot of that environment architecture that is OK. But what's limiting is 

• We are still operating in the paper book paradigm, pages. In other words, the most commonly used user interface is outdated, its design predates the digital era.
  
• We are still operating as a platform, like Wholefoods, because the tools to operate like a farmer's market aren't available. 
• Suggest others...
  

[Dmitry Sokolov]

Hi Tiberius,

thank you for the thoughtful material. It is finally curated:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/140759964/Sensorica%20Digital%20Environment

Here are the concepts I would relevant and worth of mentioning:

• Wiki Culture
• LikeInMind Communication Protocol
• Transmedia Communications 
• Unified Conceptual Space
• Holistic Ontology
• Collective Subjects
• Sounds like moving from a Digital Platforms to a Transmedia Communications.
• Anything Is a Tiddler

You mentioned a topic Death of the Document. Holistic Ontology is a methodology for interconnecting anything with anything.

Cheers,
Dmitry

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[Tiberius Brastaviceanu]

Thanks Dmitry,

Just got back from two weeks in the wilderness... the Canadian taiga (pic below).

Thanks for curating this. I watched your video with Jerry to better understand how you operate and how you use LikeInMind. I find that interesting, as a way to build shared understanding. 

I am thinking that patterns (and pattern language) are also very useful to build shared understanding, especially when the matter at stake is the design of a technical solution to a problem. Instead of trying to build a shared ontology and have everyone adopting it, we can rapidly coordinate our thinking on patterns that we can observe in different realms, and use them to coordinate our actions in creating or developing new tools. The analogies used in the previous email (seasteading and the market) are representations of the same pattern that we can use to coordinate our design actions, without much fuss about the meaning of every word. See more on patterns on the Sensorica website. Note that in this case we're only concerned with the coordination required to align our actions for designing something, not to agree on sensitive cultural or social matters, which is of a different nature and may require more than just patterns :)  

[Dmitry Sokolov]

Hi Tiberius,

I am flood with family and work, and found your letter only now. Sorry for the late reply.

You are absolutely right about the pattern languages. However, from my experience, it takes even more time on their development and agreement than syncing of associative networks does. I worked with pattern and PL people years ago. The next stage in abstraction toward theorising is building schemas, a favourite game of systems thinkers. I've been there too, no much of fun for an action focused man like myself.

P2PCI project was driven by the project manager (not me, I am an architect) into writing schemas and protocols twice, without any grounded processes and practical outcome. In both cases the protocols led nowhere from the practical point of view. After that negative experience I tend to insist on development of models and theories only if they support the actual processes on the ground (our projects in most cases).
Because I think triangles (not always, of course :?) ), Thinking-Communication-Action triangle of frustration is the most relevant here. Each of the factors of the triangle are interdependent from and interdefining each of the other factors.
On that particular example, Thinking has been totally disconnected from both Action (on the ground) and Communication to the action.

Saying that, I am very supportive to any constructive activity. If team decided to use P&PL tool, their attention, motivation and intents are already there. Demotivation can be only destructive.
Moreover, PL is one of the implementation of associative networks or topic maps you may know from Jack Park's work.

I may express myself not clear enough. Sorry for that.
However, the process of our conversation here can be called a "synchronisation of personal associative network", towards our shared understanding, to the degree sufficient for a successful common action.

All in line with the bigger concept of a Collective Subject which is embracing most of my interests, concepts, activities and work. This particular conceptual network is huge, multifaceted and dynamic. We can only approach it partially, to the extent sufficient for realising one task at a time. Next task may require another syncing takt.

Thank you very much for your interest, and
looking forward for a chance of teaming with you in near future.

Have a nice weekend,
Dmitry

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[Wael Alsaad]

Hi Dmitry (Tibi and all)

Ive looked into the links you've shared and feel blessed to know about your work. 

I do not excel in any system architecture skills, even though I was thinking out of the box for an intuitive architecture for a mass collaboration inspired by the nature of mass collab that could be valid. I put the first concept draft that could be related to the associative network discussion and started experimenting with a friend with it. Maybe you find the idea valid and integrate with your research.

Thanks 

Wael 

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[Dmitry Sokolov]

Hi Wael,

sorry for delay with the reply.
I think we spoke about your research which looks very promising:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/135741915/Wael%20AlSaad
I also see Stephan and Lauren involved that is a very good sign as well.

I see myself and many other people's attention scattered between a few projects. No much energy left to focus and realise just one of them as the result. The challenge is in collecting all needed resources in just one spot, distribute tasks and make a project happen. That looks like a systems wicked problem and can be solved by pumping more energy and resources in just one chosen project. I keep building holistic ontology/organisational memory in hope that my experience and collected content will be used in a project.

Currently I am employed by a school. Almost all my energy goes there.
So, we have to find a way of super-organising big masses of people into collective subjects / interconnected and interdependent projects. Which is impossible if done in separated conceptual spaces / "memories" of people and organisations. Not to be confused, spaces are common, associative networks and ontologies will be unique to different people and organisations in different locations and context.

I am open to collaboration within currently very shallow timeframes. Please suggest a way you see most efficient in building a team for us.

Meeting for syncing our intents would be ideal.

Looking forwards to it,
Dmitry

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[Tiberius Brastaviceanu]

Dmitry, I am amazed by how you externalize your knowledge using Likeinmind. We'd need an AI assistant to help us externalize part of our knowledge and make that available to others, and to coordinate between us. 

I see some parallels to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_L%C3%A9vy

Perhaps you can draw the distinction between your thoughts and Pierre's thoughts. 

I am interested in this discussion for practical reasons. One problem is adoption, of new technologies, new economic models, new educational systems (we spoke about this with Karim and Tim), etc. 

Closet to "home", how do you explain people what Sensorica is? How do you drive people towards collaborative entrepreneurship

https://www.sensorica.co/help/education/collaborative-entrepreneurship

A lot of people have claimed that we can do better as a network if we make things simpler, if the website would be more clear, if we use simpler language. My answer, toned with some frustration, has been that you cannot express a new paradigm in simple terms. In other words, people have no reference, no conceptual framework already built to understand Sensorica in some terms. I can tell you what Sensorica is a very few terms, because you're not new to this paradigm. But I cannot have the same conversation with anybody on the street. 

Communicating Sensorica effectively is a barrier to adoption. But that barrier is natural when there is a shift in paradigm, it is irreducible. So how can we cope with it most effectively? 

This thread is about IT infrastructure, digital spaces for collaboration, for containing open networks activities, stigmergic activity... Even the communication of these needs, coordination on design features meets the same difficulty. When you hear why not use Trello or some open ERP instead of the NRP you understand immediately that the individual doesn't grasp the reality of open, permissionless networks. So how do we engage people in the design of these new tools or how to make newcomers to Sensorica understand the importance of using the NRP while participating in projects? 

From my experience it takes 2 years for someone to really become efficient in an environment like Sensorica. That much time to understand the new environment, to develop new strategies and to unlearn strategies that we used in the traditional setting. I refer to these newcomers as immigrants. You most probably know what I am talking about as you are probably still going through the proces of getting accustomed to the New Zeeland culture. 

A part of it goes through acquiring knowledge about the new thing or the new environment and another part goes through being, experiencing, playing, acting, doing. 

But let me go to the first layer exposed above, the problem of adoption of a new economic model or of new entrepreneurial practices by the masses. My new approach makes use of patterns and analogies. You can see this at play with my push for the expression "4th Sector". 

 https://www.sensorica.co/projects/4th-sector

Simply put, if I say: 1, 2, 3, ... what's next? You'll see the pattern and answer "4". 

Thus "4" is presented in a context. People can relate to 1, 2 and 3 to build an understanding of 4. 

If I deacrive the private sector, the public sector and the solidarity sector, which people already kind of know, and I propose a 4th sector, as I start describing it people's cognitive process for understanding has already be primed up. I can now start pushing this new paradigm on politicians for example, discuss policies for stimulating the development of the p2p economy. I cannot expect a busy politician to engage with me on a process of building shared understanding, mapping our conceptual frameworks, etc. But I can probably relate on his experience, extract a pattern from there and make an analogy into my new paradigm and obtain a minimal level of coordination, perhaps enough for him to take some of my ideas and start pushing them on his own. 

My problem is to disseminate these p2p practices. It is not the same problem that you are probably interested in. Perhaps you interest is in forming teams, networks, aligning interests and action to achieve something together. In any case, you've thought a lot about this to have an interesting exchange on how we can jump over these barriers in front of adoption. 

[Tiberius Brastaviceanu]

Hi Wael, 

I think your approach is worth exploring. It is a nice and simple way to describe an organisation, or an organising process. You also use an analogy, the wolf pack, and on my opinion, whenever we use analogies we perform pattern thinking. You rely on an acquired pattern in some domain to move into another domain. 

There is also a hint to fractals in your description, an iteration of a basic organisational structure, from the pack to the super pack, which is common in network type organisations.  

Let me know where this leads. 

[Wael Alsaad]

Hi Deminti and Tibi and all

many similar efforts are taking on different fronts, one of them at

#BraveSpace | #Koolab | #RapidLearning | Vibometer | #DeepListening | http://cicolab.org |

sessions mondays from noon pacific / 9p cet

https://zoom.us/j/5448971989

invite: https://t.me/joinchat/KFwHIVV1Mdmnm3RV1LDPFw

 And things are taking off rapidly there where I have started to engage recently. 

------

“Could we potentially set up workflows that make it easy to join *and* that involve some more *active* onboarding activities that helped people get up and running and doing stuff?
Recently Charles Blass and Lauren Moore Nignon have been sharing some simple workflow modelling & moderating tools that they call "hashbins".  Perhaps something along those lines could be applied here.

What I gathered from discussion with them was that this has to do with:

- Building public collections of data around individuals (and projects) that do not tend to show up in LinkedIn profiles or Wikipedia Infoboxes etc.
- Using this data to facilitate the 'interoperability' of various efforts, including the basic task of 'discovery' so that people know who they should be talking to (and perhaps also who they should avoid talking to, viz., https://www.somanyofus.com (https://www.somanyofus.com/)/)
- Facilitate also the production of 'memes' that allow ideas to spread (maybe "hashbins" themselves comprise a go-to example).”

-----------

here is the recent newsletter. Feel free to join the conversations there regarding utilizing "collective indigence" and developing the tools for that 

https://mailchi.mp/88860236cbfa/cicolab-flow-show-2-monaug31-koolaboratory-sunaug30?e=cebe03a339

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[Dmitry Sokolov]

Thank you Wael,

I may need your help in future to reconnect them all. I heard about a few of them.
Too many projects are initiated and running but not even knowing about each other.
Here is a list of 100,000 projects on Global Sustainability.
And no hope that any of them ever start talking to each other.

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