GrowSense venture capital or crowd funding such as Kickstarter?

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John JR

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Dec 3, 2019, 2:44:51 AM12/3/19
to SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
I've recently made a whole bunch of improvements to the GrowSense system which I'll need to make another post about to explain what I've done.

The whole system is at least 99% solid but the last 1% is the hardest considering most remaining little issues are intermittent; tests pass and systems will work then occasionally glitch. So I'm still polishing off those remaining issues.

I want to produce a whole bunch more systems to deploy here and to loan out to community gardens and farmers for thorough testing. And to just generally show off to people.

I have the parts to build a bunch more systems but making cases for them is a slow and tedious process.
Once I've fixed the most crucial remaining glitches I will use what I've got (including waterproof enclosures) to make more systems even though it's slow and tedious.

Daniel recently expressed interest in helping 3D design cases and I'd like to get to the point we can take these 3D printed cases and get them mass produced.

Although I've recently made some pretty major upgrades to the GrowSense infrastructure there are still a lot more upgrades I'd still like to implement to truly guarantee the lts/branch remains rock solid.

I'm wondering if it's time to speed things up with GrowSense by looking for venture capital (large scale investment) or starting a Kickstarter campaign.

What does everyone think of these two ideas?
If people think it's a good idea is anyone interested in helping to produce the necessary publicity material for this?

I'm swamped just focusing on the tech and perfecting the systems.
It would be ideal to have someone dedicated to the PR side of things.
Any volunteers?

GrowSense is about to take off. I'll be doing the New Enterprise Incentive Scheme soon hopefully to help launch the business, which includes business mentoring, etc. And I have a local business partner who can help me run the business, the website, and the online store.

It's all coming together it's just the slow pace of things that is frustrating. And much of that slow pace is caused by running on such a limited budget and not having custom manufactured cases.

Let me know what you think about venture capital or a kickstarter campain.
If you're willing to help produce material for these I'm prepared to send you a kit to use for demos, videos and photos etc.

Cheers,
John

Jeff Heng

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Dec 3, 2019, 2:04:48 PM12/3/19
to John JR, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
I would be happy to be a tester for the GrowSense device. How may I help?
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John JR

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Dec 3, 2019, 3:07:59 PM12/3/19
to Jeff Heng, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
I would be happy to be a tester for the GrowSense device. How may I help?

Thanks for the offer to help.

To set up a GrowSense system the bare minimum hardware you'll need is a Raspberry Pi (or any equivalent linux/debian/raspbian/armbian/ubuntu based single board computer) and an arduino.
The system will run just fine without any additional hardware attached to the arduino, although obviously the functionality will be limited and you'll get dummy sensor readings (the analog pin of the arduino floats between 0 and 1023 when no sensor is attached but the system will still show those readings thinking it's coming from a sensor).
If you have both of those I can walk you through the setup process and you can test it out. And if you have the rest of the hardware (eg. soil moisture sensor, etc.) I can walk you through the assembly process.

If you'd like more hardware to create a complete automation system (eg. irrigator) I can post it to you or I can give you links to the suppliers where I purchase parts and you can order them directly.

Let's set up a chat so I can walk you through the setup process, and also to discuss the other idea of the DIY server cloud.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
John

Tiberius Brastaviceanu

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Dec 3, 2019, 3:51:01 PM12/3/19
to Jeff Heng, Grant Romundt, John JR, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
Waw, that's a nice mini greenhouse you have there Cliff. 

John, I think the challenge we have before us is to grow a community of early adapters.  

I would be careful to jump to commercial activity before the GrowSense system is demonstrated to work at large scale and in different environments. Such move can be very costly and frustrating. 

Crowdfunding can be a way to get some money and build a community, it takes 6 months to build a good campaign and at least 4, 5 people to work on it. Before we have a critical mass of that team and + for some redundancy I would not start one. 

Venture Capital, ... don't know what to say about it. For now it is incompatible with our open and collaborative model, unless we find VCs who want to engage with this model specifically. We tried that in the past, it didn't work, they all ask for control / power. There could be a case here to try to sell a new experience to some VCs though. A VC would get fluid equity for its financial contribution, which is treated the same as any other form of contribution, time, materials, etc. We have never treated those who invest with money differently from those who invest their time in a project. 

Past attempts to grow a community in Montreal
During this summer I started an initiative to bring people at the Sensorica lab to for a community around the Green Wall project, which uses the GrowSense system. I produced 3 videos and advanced the prototype but unfortunately, no one showed up. See videos HERE. We need to figure out why and adjust our approach. 
The Sensorica lab is a nice shared space where a community tan take root, people can prototype together. 

This is a journey. There are steps that we all need to do first, and steps that we do second. If we all want to see this GrowSense system mature, we need to coordinate our motion and march together, one step after the other. In other words, if we think growing a larger and more coherent community is required first, we should all get behind this goal, help with communication, propose and coordinate activities, etc. 

Those who are really interested, can contact me and I'll facilitate their work. I don't have time to do everything... swamped with lots of other strategic activities for Sensorica. 

One important requirement to build community is to pull activity in one place, working together in the open. Activity attracts more activity. For example, Cliff's efforts to build a green house, pics and videos, can be pulled together with other people's attempts, posted on social media, communicated on our forums. We should also resist to proliferation of virtual spaces / tools, which dilute activities. Best practice is to stick with what's there, use it to capacity and don't change if you don't have a capacity problem.   

But perhaps some people here are just interested in playing with the system in their spare time or using the system in their backyard, not building community and an open enterprise for GrowSense. That's fine. You're in the right place :) 
We need to find a critical mass of individuals who are behind GrowSense as an open and collaborative venture, a critical mass of entrepreneurs who at the same time like growing plants.  These individuals will not only help with the project but will also adopt the proper attitude to develop an organisation, since their interest is not just the GrowSense system but the whole economic / commercial activity. 

Let's continue the discussion,... we haven't saturated the topic. 





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co-founder of CAKE: consulting for the new economy
founder of Multitude Project: informing the new multitude

BL

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Dec 3, 2019, 8:28:37 PM12/3/19
to John JR, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
Hi John,
Send me a kit and I will happily grow some tomatoes and herbs in my kitchen over winter. I could track progress with pictures to use as marketing materials.
I have a bit of a rush for the next week but then will have some down time to work on some ideas which I will send out for comments. Could do that before Xmas.
As for the financial side of things, I will leave that to more qualified people, I don't know much about crowd funding and such things. But I can work on branding, I'm good at that :)
Send me a private email for contact info and questions.
Bev

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Tiberius Brastaviceanu

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Dec 3, 2019, 10:56:49 PM12/3/19
to BL, John JR, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
Cool, I can help Bev with the installation. 

Also, It would probably be better if I order to parts for Bev and log it as a financial contribution to the project. Faster than transporting stuff from the other side of the world.  

I also suggest communication about marketing to happen in a shared space, to give others the opportunity to contribute to the effort, with ideas, etc. That also gives someone else a desire to participate. 

Thanks Bev for offering your time for Marketing. 

What also works, from my experience with collaborative communities, if we want to build and maintain momentum, is to set up some regular / weekly meetings or workparties. Sometimes we only exchange a few ideas, sometimes we plan, other times we hack something together. I want to stay more in the background of this, let others take the initiative to coordinate and lead, I can help providing best practice advice.  
 
In order to sustain collaborative work we need to adopt best practices. There's no magic behind it, it's just sticking to best practices  : ) 


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Tiberius Brastaviceanu

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Dec 3, 2019, 11:10:59 PM12/3/19
to BL, John JR, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
So, I created a list of materials not so long ago. John can go over it again, to make sure that it is up to date, and point us to the specific list (there's a drop down menu to chose from). 

Bev, we can coordinate to make the order of parts, and John, we should schedule a day for setting it up and doing the software installation, I understand that the procedure has changed. While doing that we'll update the manual. 

I also suggest to use this website as the space for coordination and collaboration. That helps us to concentrate activity in one digital space. 

ToDos
  • John to signal the parts list
  • Tibi and Bev order parts
  • Fix workparty for installation 
Others can follow the process and decide if they also want to put together the same build, join us for the Installation day, this way we reduce the load on John to accompany 


Jeff Heng

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Dec 4, 2019, 12:13:34 AM12/4/19
to Tiberius Brastaviceanu, BL, John JR, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
Would it be possible to capture all of John's explanations and instructions here on the email list to archive them in a searchable Wiki/KnowledgeBase?

It is difficult to find information within multiple emails. It would be far better in a system/platform that can be easily searched.

Also, if there is a build/install session, can it be recorded so that new people are able to participate by watching the video/screen-share.

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co-founder of CAKE: consulting for the new economy
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co-founder of CAKE: consulting for the new economy
founder of Multitude Project: informing the new multitude

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John JR

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Dec 4, 2019, 12:46:17 AM12/4/19
to Jeff Heng, Tiberius Brastaviceanu, BL, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
I'm happy to help you set up a system Bev. Thanks for being willing to test it out.
Tibi has a pretty good understanding of the setup process now too. It hasn't change since the last time I helped you set up a system Tibi EXCEPT that the GreenSense repositories are obsolete. Replace GreenSense in all the links to GrowSense. And the "install-scripts" repository has been renamed "InstallScripts". Let me know if you get stuck on any of that I'll help out.

Tibi I agree it would be better if you order parts because shipping from here (Australia) is around $38 which is almost the cost of an entire irrigator.
I also agree it would be good to have regular meetings/workparties.
Sorry I get very hyperfocused at times though particularly when working on a bug fix or a major update. Pushing myself nonstop to get it completed. The downside is I can disappear for a little while at times but the upside is I get a lot done.

I'm just fixing up a few remaining issues with the latest major update but it's very close to ready.
I'll go through the parts list when I can and make sure it is indeed up to date. If there is anything missing it's likely to be fairly minor.
I think it would be a good idea to make photo based checklists where we lay parts out on a table and take photos. Both of just individual parts and of complete systems laid out in a way it's easy to see. This is partly because I'm a visual thinker and images work better in my head.
If we use both a spreadsheet checklist and visual checklists together it should be a good way to double check the spreadsheet list is correct, and also let people see what the parts in the spreadsheet actually are.

Jeff there's a lot of info in the various docs listed here:
All of that info needs to be moved into a nicely formatted KB or wiki or something similar. The project has been evolving too fast for the documentation to keep up with it.
Keep in mind anywhere you see GreenSense replace it with GrowSense such as in the links shown in the screencasts, etc.

I also suggest to use this website as the space for coordination and collaboration. That helps us to concentrate activity in one digital space.

I was using that website but the software related user guides have become obsolete. The hardware setup guides are still the same I think, except that some still show the old crappy soil moisture sensor which I don't recommend using. Use the better capacitive soil moisture sensors.
One thing I don't like about Google Sites is that it doesn't have a history and the ability to review and revert changes. This is why I want to move to a wiki because it's better for collaboration.
I tried launching a wiki on my webserver but had some difficulties with that. I'll try again soon, and if all else fails we can move documentation to a hosted wiki.
GitBook looks really cool but it gets pricey to have a hosted version with a bunch of collaborators. Self hosting it is possible but then you lose the advanced wiki style editor UI which is really the core benefit of it.
I'll do more research and experimentation with tools like that when I get a chance.

Cheers,
John


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Tiberius Brastaviceanu

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Dec 4, 2019, 5:06:50 AM12/4/19
to Compulsive Coder, Jeff Heng, BL, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
Jeff, the wiki story is old... before that gets solved I propose to keep the Google Site clean and alive. Much better than a bunch of docs. Even if these docs are indexed in a  master doc, one needs to be able to find that matter doc containing the links. 

Emails are not omplete tools for collaboration. 

Although the New Google sites is missing history and it's not customizable and it's not this and that (I agree) .. it is free, reliable, persistent and anybody can edit it. In the past, I've seen a lot of:  in search of the perfect tool we have no tool. My advice, use the best one you have at your disposal until the day comes for a better tool. Google sites is beter than Docs or email. People just need to bookmark one URL, and if the info is well structured on the site, if the navigation is well designed, people should find their way for everything, repositories for designs and code, communication channels, agendas for coordination, planning, announcements, etc. 

Again, just my advice... 

Jeff, since you ask, would you lile to spend some time to update the Site? 

John JR

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Dec 4, 2019, 7:32:08 PM12/4/19
to Tiberius Brastaviceanu, Jeff Heng, BL, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
Jeff, the wiki story is old... before that gets solved I propose to keep the Google Site clean and alive. Much better than a bunch of docs. Even if these docs are indexed in a  master doc, one needs to be able to find that matter doc containing the links. 
Emails are not omplete tools for collaboration. 
Although the New Google sites is missing history and it's not customizable and it's not this and that (I agree) .. it is free, reliable, persistent and anybody can edit it. In the past, I've seen a lot of:  in search of the perfect tool we have no tool. My advice, use the best one you have at your disposal until the day comes for a better tool. Google sites is beter than Docs or email. People just need to bookmark one URL, and if the info is well structured on the site, if the navigation is well designed, people should find their way for everything, repositories for designs and code, communication channels, agendas for coordination, planning, announcements, etc. 

On one hand I agree with you. On the other hand I was working on overhauling the user guides on the Google Sites site and I just found it a real pain to use. Not to mention I can't edit the Google Site from my tablet (at least I couldn't last time I tried).
It got to the point where I basically just gave up on it.

I'm not great at doing documentation and Google Sites being so limited and such a pain to use just made it even harder. The new Google Sites look nicer but the editor is worse than the previous Google Sites.

We don't need a perfect tool but we do need one which doesn't make documentation more difficult.

I'll have another look at Google Sites maybe they've improved it recently. But if it's still a pain to use then I'm going to try find something better. Not perfect, just better.

 

Jeff Heng

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Dec 4, 2019, 9:40:02 PM12/4/19
to John JR, Tiberius Brastaviceanu, BL, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
As far as I’m concerned, I believe the most important feature of a good KnowledgeBase/Wiki is the power of the Search. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but it must be searchable and allows our users to easily find what they are looking for.

Same for the GrowSense build/install video/screencast. It needs to be made available for future testers to easily find.

My HTML/CSS skills aren’t the best, but I am willing to help do the work that needs to be done.

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Tiberius Brastaviceanu

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Dec 5, 2019, 2:24:59 PM12/5/19
to Jeff Heng, John JR, BL, SENSORICA, sensorica-ecg
Hi Jeff, No need for HTML/CSS, that's why we're using Google Sites, to reduce the barrier to create structure and content for everyone. Tell me if you want me to give you edit access to the site. 

IMPORTANT I changed the name and address of the website to GrowSense from Greensense. Previous links will not work!

Here's the new URL

I also did some improvements. 

Cliff and all, there is an applications page, you can all drop info and links in there. [ask for edit permission].

NOTE that the site still needs improvement. If you have ideas, please share them or better, ask permission to edit. 





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