Do we need Commercial Support secton on Support page

[Alexei Barantsev]

Hi, all,

Do we still need the list of the companies that provide commercial services based on Selenium?

It was a good thing in early days of Selenium, as a promotional step (look, it's not just a toy, some people do business with Selenium!)

But what's purpose of this list currently?

Regards,

-- 

Alexei Barantsev

Software-Testing.Ru

Selenium2.Ru

[David Burns]

With the idea that sponsoring companies can put the logo on the site I would be happy to remove this list.

 If people want to be on our site as offering commercial support then they should give us some support too to make sure we break even each year!

David

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[Patrick Lightbody]

Eh - I don't know. I think sponsorship of the project is fine and we give a little recognition of that. But there are a lot of companies in the Selenium ecosystem that aren't necessarily going to sponsor but are still interesting for us to share with the user community.

[David Burns]

Then, as I have mentioned before, we should drop the NASCAR idea for sponsorship. Get a nice warm fuzzy feeling for sponsoring and leave it there. 

Seems a weird thing to have people both pay to be on the site and allow people to be on the for free. 

Why incentives for people to pay then?

David

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[Alexei Barantsev]

+1 to David

If a company makes some business on selenium and wants some advertisement why can't it be a sponsor?

On the other side, we can create a list of __non-commercial__ selenium-related projects and services, that can't sponsor, it's fair to mention them for free.

In any case, if we keep this list on the site, let's define the criteria for a company/site to be enlisted or rejected.

Regards,

-- 

Alexei Barantsev

Software-Testing.Ru

Selenium2.Ru

[Alexei Barantsev]

Are there any other opinions on the subject?

Regards,

Alexei

On Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:24:34 AM UTC+4, Alexei Barantsev wrote:

[Luke Inman-Semerau]

I agree with the sentiment that (I think) is coming off here.  I don't want to have a 'free' section of external links.  We should have everything be sponsored (c'mon nascar page!) and sponsorship in my mind is not only directly monetary, but also in terms of contribution to the project (read: companies of the committers and hosting providers)

--

[Luke Inman-Semerau]

In case you missed it... more pieces are connected. Under the 'Donate'
button on the site there is now links to the sponsorship page.

I missed the detail that only Platinum+ (so, $10k+) donors will get
logo placement on the site.

Which leaves all (the hopefully many?) donors that donate at a lower
level without any sort of recognition?

So, my proposal:

Add a new page that simply lists all the donors by order of first
donate broken down by level of donation with only name / link (if
provided). And the Platinum+ still are the only ones with logos on the
site.

I would only link to this page at the bottom of the "Sponsors" section
on the main splash page for the site: http://docs.seleniumhq.org/

Let me know what you think!

[David Burns]

Sounds good to me!

David

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[Alexei Barantsev]

What I see in the Rules:

• For corporate donations over $5000, your logo will be placed on our site for one year, as well as on the sponsor wiki pages.
• For each six months of non-sponsorship, your logo will be moved to the next lowest sponsorship level on the sponsor wiki page. If your logo is in the Aluminium level when this happens it will be removed from the sponsor wiki page.

and

• Placement on the front page of http://seleniumhq.org will be for donations that equal or are more than the Platinum level.
• For donations that are equal to the Selenium level, your logo will be placed on each page of the documentation hosted at http://seleniumhq.org/docs/

That implies:

1) there should be a "Sponsors" page with the complete list of the sponsors and vice-sponsort that are not below Aluminium level yet

2) Gold level and below are listed on the "Sponsors" page only

3) Platinum level ($10,000) logos are present on the front page only

-- where exactly?

4) Selenium level ($20,000) logos are present on all pages

-- where exactly?

-- where are they located on the front page relative to Platinum ones?

5) It is not clear what about Gold+ donations (>$5,000 but <$10,000)

Regards,

-- 

Alexei Barantsev

Software-Tersting.Ru

Selenium2.Ru

>> email to selenium-developers+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Luke Inman-Semerau]

Yes, it does imply there should be a sponsorship "wiki" page...
although I'll just make it a 'page' and not so 'wiki-like'.

As for the other inconsistency of logo levels, I just fixed that.
Simon can confirm if what I did was not right:
https://code.google.com/p/selenium/source/detail?r=ed171191a6894b7253fcc2ef87b1f8ff0ddc0a2d&repo=site

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[Patrick Lightbody]

Luke & Alexie,

Can you reproduce the guidelines that you're working off of? There are a number of threads with slightly different tweaks and I just want to make sure we're all talking about the latest version. Thanks!

Patrick

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[Alexei Barantsev]

I'm talking about the Rules claimed on the site:

http://docs.seleniumhq.org/sponsor/

Alexei

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[Patrick Lightbody]

Ah ok - so neither of you have been tweaking that page itself. I was only checking because there were a number of threads about a year ago and people provided feedback and I wasn't sure which feedback had been incorporated. I will dig in.

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[Patrick Lightbody]

Just following up on this:

I’ve updated a number of pages:

The sponsorship page now includes an email address to contact:

http://docs.seleniumhq.org/sponsor/

There is now a dedicated list of sponsors page:

http://docs.seleniumhq.org/sponsors/

And I also removed the old list of companies under “Commercial Support” and created a new “Ecosystem” page:

http://docs.seleniumhq.org/ecosystem/

I applied some editorial discretion to the Ecosystem page by removing some companies that couldn’t obviously make the Selenium connection on their website. Happy to have folks continue to refine this page. One note: I added rel=“nofollow” so that we don’t give off any PageRank goodness to these companies, which might imply some sort of endorsement.

Patrick

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[Santiago Suarez Ordoñez]

I just noticed Sauce Labs isn't in the sponsors page anymore. IIRC, Sauce has a Selenium level sponsorship agreed upon between the conservancy and the project. Is this an actual change or still work in progress? If an actual change, has a conversation about this between the direct parties already happened?

I'm mainly asking this due to the level of investment I've put to make Sauce Labs' support to the project happen from a company perspective as well as regular sync-ups with management justifying the level of investment this incurs in both our engineering team and infrastructure.

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[Patrick Lightbody]

Santiago,

I have a separate (private, amongst the steering committee) thread that I kicked off this morning to discuss this. I removed Sauce Labs (temporarily!) because there never really was any official sponsorship. Specifically, my understanding is that no sponsor payment at the Selenium-level sponsorship ($20,000 USD) has been paid. Rather, Sauce Labs has been providing Selenium free service and there was an assumed cash value of those services. 

For context: At some point almost a year ago, Bradley from the Software Freedom Conservancy asked us to look at the value of those free services and use that to determine the sponsorship level. I hope that we can assess that in the coming days and then get it back on the website. Any information you can send me, such as how we’re using it and maybe a login to see historical usage, would be great.

Thanks, and sorry to spook you! My goal is to have a “clean slate” now that we formally have the sponsorship program live this year (it didn’t exist when we first put the Sauce Labs logo up). Hopefully we’ll get this sorted out shortly.

Patrick

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[Alexei Barantsev]

Re: "Commercial support and services" section.

Every single "testing service" company declares selenium support (or williness to provide support if a customers is ready to pay for it).

How can we check their qualification? Or do we want to "recommend" companies with unknown skills?

The only way I see is putting there companies with reputation confirmed by a commiter.

Regards,

-- 

Alexei Barantsev

Software-Testing.Ru

Selenium.Ru

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[Luke Inman-Semerau]

Patrick,

It would have been significantly nicer (and I feel more appropriate)
to leave the SauceLabs logo and list them on the sponsors page still,
before concluding what level they should be listed at. Adjustments can
be made after the fact when the real value is determined. Right now
you're setting the value at $0, which we all know is not true.

-Luke

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[Luke Inman-Semerau]

Also I'd very much appreciate to get on some of these communications
(as I've asked before). Simon / Patrick, can you please make that
happen in some capacity.

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 9:08 AM, Luke Inman-Semerau

[Patrick Lightbody]

My perspective is: Sauce Labs is not yet officially been part of *this* sponsorship program. For several years they've had the benefit of getting very strong (and singular) endorsement from this project without a clear understanding of what Selenium gets in return. We kicked off the desire to create a real sponsorship program over a year ago to address this very issue, so it seems fitting that we have a clear "reset" and now we can assess where they (and any other company) fits.

For example, I also removed Atlassian because it wasn't clear to me we still use any of their products. I did, however, keep IntelliJ and put them at the Silver level because that was the value I could assess for their donated licenses.

Patrick

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[Santiago Suarez Ordoñez]

I'm with Luke in that I'd appreciate having all these conversations out in the open and the decisions be made by more than one person on a Sunday. Independently of whoever gets a saying during the decision making (which I expect will be public as well), putting it in private emails leaves a lot of room for poorly explained decisions and miss interpretation from the rest of the community. Specially as this conversation involves sponsorship and several private companies' involvement.

To your point that Sauce Labs has not been part of the sponsorship program, in early 2012 there was an official conversation about this between project representatives (Simon), Bradly (SF Concervancy) and Sauce Labs. At the time, the Conservancy realized that the Project needed to discontinue the use of Google Adwords and that prompted the idea of sponsorship and the conversation with Sauce (the main AdWords consumer for seleniumhq.org). Sauce Labs calculated the Selenium Project''s usage at the time and for the previous six months and it totaled out to more than $100,000 in infrastructure costs annually. Given that, we all agreed that a $20,000 Selenium sponsorship "exchange" was more than fair and this is why the Sauce Labs logo has been included on the Project page since then. 

 

If there is a need to see the current contribution of Sauce to the project, I'd be happy to post current account terms and the usage the project does (all tests are public), as well as monetary donations including conferences and events organized over the last few years. That said, we would appreciate if you put back the Sauce logo considering our contribution over the last three years and until the details are sorted out.

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[Patrick Lightbody]

Alexei,

You're right about the testing companies all claiming Selenium. My filter when I made these edits was that if the website didn't actually call out a significant focus on Selenium, it didn't make the cut. But I'm open to other ideas for sure.

Also, while we're at it, if there are other companies that folks think should be on the list, let me know and I'll try to get it put in the right bucket.

Patrick

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[Luke Inman-Semerau]

Patrick, Here's the queue pending review :)

https://code.google.com/p/selenium/issues/list?can=2&q=Patch+for+%2Fsrc%2Fmain%2Fwebapp%2Fsupport%2Findex.jsp&colspec=ID+Stars+Type+Status+Priority+Milestone+Owner+Summary&cells=tiles

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[Luke Inman-Semerau]

follow up for the saucers' patrick put the logo back on the main page
until we get the sponsorship level sorted out -

http://docs.seleniumhq.org/

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Luke Inman-Semerau

[Santiago Suarez Ordoñez]

Thanks Luke. Appreciate you putting that back until we sort out the details.

Just finished up a conversation with our VP of Sales, Michael Canon, who gave us a rough estimate of the yearly contract cost for the usage terms of the project. Based on payment terms and other technical details, he quoted me between $65.000 and $75.000 per year.

What is the official channel to send this through and open for a discussion on whether this estimate makes sense for the project and what level of sponsorship that would put Sauce Labs under?

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[Luke Inman-Semerau]

just want to note that it wasn't me that put it back, but patrick :)

The official channel is apparently this email: spons...@seleniumhq.org

Which I think only goes to conservancy and the "project heads" (simon,
patrick, hugs, haw-bin?)

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[Patrick Lightbody]

Correct that's the place to discuss sponsorship stuff.

Any committer is welcome to be on that list, just drop me an email and I'll add you.

My only request is that you treat it as "read only" unless someone from SFC or the Steering Committee (Simon, Jason, Paul, Dan, or me) request you participate. That's only to avoid 20 people all responding to inbound requests.

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