Fwd: [SacramentoByNight] [PROPOSAL] [AUTO-PASS] New Camarilla Status System

[John Haller]

Hey guys this just came down the line.

Big change proposed.

John Haller

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Camarilla Coordinator <camaril...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 8:14 AM
Subject: [OWBN-Council] [PROPOSAL] [AUTO-PASS] New Camarilla Status System
To: owbn-c...@mail.owbn.net

Today, I, Jeff Cauley, Camarilla Coordinator, propose the following update to the Camarilla status packet to replace the current Camarilla Status Packet.

Per Coordinator bylaws 3.C.III:

 

Genre Coordinators must pass before Council any plot, enforced policy, R&U named characters, or binding edict they wish to use that they can reasonably expect to affect multiple chronicles, and these proposals need not be seconded, but go immediately into discussion.

 

If no opposition is voiced during the week of discussion, the proposal is considered passed and enforceable. Once passed these are considered binding to all chronicles and a chronicles refusal to adhere is grounds for OWBN disciplinary measures. Opposition must be in regards to the content of the proposal and must give those reasons why the objection is voiced. This is to allow Coordinators the opportunity to respond and/or make changes/remove the proposal and its contents.

As stated, this proposal will switch the Camarilla Status system from that presented in Laws of the Night, Revised, modified as it has been over the years (including the changes listed in the Camarilla Status Packet) to the status system presented in By Night Studio's "Mind's Eye Theater: Vampire the Masquerade" with modifications to work with our system, as presented in the below genre document:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xhXujoi2pbZWlcngysY7W7iFYJV2V9_PLE9-WsF_I9c/edit

It's time for a big change.

Most people will tell you that the Camarilla has become stagnant and the Status system isn't what it should be.  Characters reach their maximum status and the majority rarely lose status.  This has led to a setup where status is not valued or respected.  We need something more dynamic than that and the status system presented by By Night Studios does a fantastic job of making status ebb & flow and having it be a very prominent part of genre (by having the status have defined effects).

This is a proposal for a genre packet update.  Therefore, it may be shared as people wish (including with the public).

This is just the first part of a new Camarilla Packet that is being worked on.  However, as this system is a radical change, I wanted it to be proposed solely on its own so that it may pass/fail on it's own.  If it (or a variant) passes, it will later be implemented as is into a more detailed Camarilla Packet.

Questions & Answers:

• Are you proposing that we switch to BNS?  No!  I am only proposing that we take the status system presented, modify it to work with Laws of the Night, Revised and OWbN's genre and use that.  Only that. 
  
  
• Are we allowed to do this? 
  Yes.  I personally have spoken with both the Head Coordinator and the By Night Stuidos (BNS) Team over e-mail, chat, and teleconference.  I expressed my interest in utilizing the status system presented by BNS and they were receptive and helpful; offering several suggestions on how to incorporate the status into our existing Laws of the Night, Revised setting/system.
  
  
• How will the new status system be implemented?
  In essence, we have two ways we can go about this.  We can either say "this is the way it's always been done" and just sort of "assume" that the status system has always functioned this way or we can acknowledge our past story and say that going from this point forward, this how status works.  I prefer the latter as it doesn't erase our history.
  
  That said, this will not be an immediate flip over.  It's not like we'll start using the new status system the moment the vote passes.  The plan is to incorporate the change over into a future plot proposal.  I wanted to propose the new status system separately from said plot proposal, though.  Once we have decided on what OOC system we'll use, then we can decide how to incorporate IC.
  
  
• Will I get to migrate my status over or will I simply lose all my status and start over?
  No, you will not lose your status.  I plan to come up with a binding guide, simply saying "X status becomes Y status".  A few weeks ago, I put out a voluntary census about what status traits PC's have.  I'll be using this as the basis for the migration.
  
  
• I thought we voted not to use BNS?!
  Incorrect.  Actually there are Chronicles in Brazil that regularly use BNS for their game play.
  
  
• There are a lot of items in the BNS section that contradict a lot of our established edicts.  How will this be getting handled?
  There are.  This will be also handled with a future plot proposal.  Essentially, the volume and content of the Edicts out there have removed a lot of the grey area from the Camarilla.  I'll be going through all the former edicts out there that I can find and reviewing of them.  Several of them will be getting repealed or readdressed with a plot proposal.
  

Bylaw Changes:

• Remove:
• Character Bylaws
• 10. Status Regulation
  A. Characters are limited to possessing only six permanent Camarilla status traits from other characters and NPCs, plus the highest status bonus from offices held.
  B. Council must vote upon each and any award of personal Camarilla status traits beyond the six personal Camarilla status traits limit. Positional status is not considered "personal Camarilla status".
  C. All Non Player Characters (NPCs) are limited to possessing only seven permanent Camarilla status traits, plus the highest status bonus from offices held.
  D. The Camarilla Coordinator must approve every personal Camarilla status trait above the seven personal Camarilla status limit for Non-Player Characters (NPCs). Positional status is not considered "personal Camarilla status."
  E. Player Characters may only hold Domain related Camarilla positions which grant additional status in areas that are controlled by Chronicles, not Coordinator controlled areas. The exception to this is the position of Archon, being a non-Domain related position. Domain related positions being: Prince, Seneschal, Sheriff, Keeper of Elysium, Scourge, Primogen and Harpy.
  
  
• 11. Bloodhunts
  A. If a PC is considered dangerous enough, and the Princes of OWBN extend a blood hunt far enough, a PC can be considered continentally, universally, and globally bloodhunted throughout OWBN. The mechanics of such are listed below.
  i. Continental bloodhunts would require a 75% majority of the Princes of that continent extending a bloodhunt to their Domain.
  ii. Universal bloodhunts occur when a Prince from every continent existing in OWBN declares such. Continents will be regarded, for this purpose, as Europe, South America, North America, and the South Pacific region.
  iii. Global bloodhunts require a proper Conclave, a Justicar calling it, and 2 other Justicars agreeing to it. Justicar Coordinators who feel that this will be necessary should bring the appropriate proposal to Council at least 2 weeks in advance.
  
  
• R&U Bylaws
• 3.G.i.1.h. Merit: Long Term Prince (Camarilla)
  
  
• 3.G.i.1.i PCs with the Reputation Merit
  1. The purpose of this proposal is to reflect and regulate the nature of a merit that has come to represent how well a character is known throughout the organization as a whole, as opposed to within their home chronicle or region alone.
  2. Requires approval of the appropriate Sect Genre Coordinator (i.e. Camarilla Coordinator for Camarilla vampires, Sabbat Coordinator for Sabbat vampires, Anarch Coordinator for Anarch vampires)
  
• Add:
• Character Bylaws
• 10. Camarilla Status Regulation
  A. A character's maximum Personal/Fleeting Status will be determined by the guidelines in By Night Studio's Mind's Eye Theater: Vampire the Masquerade and amended by the Camarilla Packet.
  B. Non-Player Characters (NPCs) may have their Personal/Fleeting Status maximum raised by one more than normal.  If they wish to have more, this requires Camarilla Coordinator approval.
  C. Player Characters may only hold Domain related Camarilla positions which grant Positional/Abiding status in areas that are controlled by Chronicles, not Coordinator controlled areas. The exception to this is the position of Archon, being a non-Domain related position. Domain related positions being: Prince, Seneschal, Sheriff, Keeper of Elysium, Scourge, Primogen and Harpy.
  
  
• 11. Blood Hunts
  A. Blood Hunt rules shall follow those listed in By Night Studio's Mind's Eye Theater: Vampire the Masquerade and amended by the Camarilla Packet.
  
  
• R&U Bylaws
• 3.G.i.1.h Camarilla Status Merits
  i. Architect of the Tower
  ii. Long Term Prince
  iii. Emissary of the Camarilla
  iv. Prestigious Sire
  v. Machiavellian Prodigy
  
  3.E.iii Extraordinary Vampire Listings
  1. Camarilla Merits
  a. Additional Fleeting Status
  
  
• 3.G.i.1.i PCs with the Reputation Merit
  1. Requires approval of the appropriate Sect Genre Coordinator (i.e. Sabbat Coordinator for Sabbat vampires, Anarch Coordinator for Anarch vampires)
  2. Camarilla Reputation does not require Coordinator Appoval.
  
  
• 3.G.ii.19 Removal of a Greater or Lesser Camarilla Status Ban
  a. This requires Approval of both the Camarilla Coordinator and the Clan Coordinator that controls the forgiving Justicar.
  
  3.G.ii.20 Custom Camarilla Status Traits
  a. This includes any Status Trait not listed in the Camarilla Packet.
  
  
• 3.H.ii.10 Camarilla Positions
  a. Luminary (Elder) of the Camarilla
  b. Dignitary (Ancilla) of the Camarilla

Note:  There will be a gap from when this proposal passes to when it is implemented into effect through a future plot proposal.  This proposal's Bylaw changes will not go in effect until the plot proposal passes.

Regards,
~ Jeff Cauley
Camarilla Coordinator - camaril...@gmail.com

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[Sarah Himebaugh]

While I like the BNS status system, it's a completely different system.  As in throw out everything you know about status and use this instead.  I also don't really feel like things convert well between the current system and BNS status.

I can't personally support a change to it without a full conversion to BNS and/or a reset.

sarah

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[Bryan Himebaugh]

I'd agree with that - all in, or all out. This mix and mash has been a bane for the entirety of the Organization, whether it be Table Top books grafted in, old editions of MET or the new BNS stuff.

Bryan

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Bryan Himebaugh
US2005043360

[David]

I agree as well, half-assing it will cause more problems than it solves.

-David

Sent from my iPhone

[David]

I agree as well, half-assing it will cause more problems than it creates.

-David

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 4, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Bryan Himebaugh <bryan.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Benjamin Sams]

The BNS status rules are awesome and a VAST improvement. We should use them.

OWBN rules are already a crazy mishmash of rules from different editions, even of TT and LARP rules. If you don't believe me, just take a look at the Thaum packet.

While I agree that it'd be better to adopt the BNS rules wholesale, due to many individuals in the org being unwilling to risk the slightest possibility that their compensatory sheet wieners might shrink a bit, that's not gonna happen. However, that shouldn't stop us from taking what we can get, when we can get it.
Yep, it'd take some work. It might even be a sizable administrative pain in the ass, though that strikes me as unlikely.
Seems worth it to me though, without a doubt.

--Ben

[Bryan Himebaugh]

The BNS system as a whole is a vast improvement. :)

I'd love to swap out for it.  I don't want to half-ass it though. :)

---

Bryan Himebaugh
US2005043360

[Benjamin Sams]

Since the alternative is no ass, I'd definitely go for half an ass. Maybe you gotta lean a bit, but at least you've got something to sit on.
Besides, the anti-change sheet monkeys aren't all that bright. Maybe we can sneak a wholesale upgrade by them in bits & pieces.

--Ben