.h8d files in SEBHC archive

198 views
Skip to first unread message

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Nov 30, 2021, 6:34:54 PM11/30/21
to SEBHC
Hello,

I'm in the process of converting .h8d hard sector disk images to soft sector format (my H89 has only a H37-disk controller). So far I successfully converted around 20 files from the SEBHC-archive (XREF.ABS, XREFH.ABS, ZSMH.ABS, SPACEWAR.ABS, LIFE.ABS and others) and made  the following observation:

After converting the disk images from the archive with H8DUtility the resulting .h8d-files are all by 2 records (2 * 256 bytes ) too long. For example the directory listing of the original disk 

HDOS2D1.H8D

says

XREF ABS 13

 - the extracted file from the archive is 3840 bytes long = 15 * 256 bytes

Examining the files with a hex editor shows that the last two records contain garbage: in some cases they are full of  x'474C, in other cases some fragments from other files are visible.

In any case the last two sectors can be omitted for file conversion. On the other hand they don't hurt but waste disk space.

Roland

Glenn Roberts

unread,
Nov 30, 2021, 7:20:35 PM11/30/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

So I believe what you’re seeing here is the difference between the actual space used by the file and the amount of space *allocated* for the file.  HDOS allocates space in integral numbers of clusters.  A cluster is typically 2, 4, 8 or more sectors, depending on the disk geometry.  For example on a 100K hard sectored disk a cluster is 2 sectors or 512 bytes.  That means that a file that has only a single byte of useful data gets allocated 512 bytes.  I can’t recall but am guessing that on the H37 the clusters are either 4 or 8 sectors.

 

When you CAT (DIR) a file name the directory size listing shows the size of the meaningful data in the file.  E.g. for a .ABS file this is based on the information in the file header.  If you want to see the actual total amount of storage allocated for the file you can use the /ALL switch, e.g.

CAT XREF.ABS/ALL

 

Then you should see a number indicating the actual total amount of space used by the file on the disk.  I’m pretty sure that’s what you’re seeing here?

 

If you’re interested, you could read Tom Jorgensen’s “Dissecting the HDOS Disk” article from Microcomputing:

 

https://sebhc.github.io/sebhc/documentation/supplemental/HDOS_Disk.pdf

 

I also touched on some of this in a REMark article I did in 1984 (p. 58) and include some other references in there on HDOS disk structure (the article was primarily aimed at users who have only a single disk drive and ways to economize on space):

 

http://pestingers.net/pdfs/remark-scans/1984/remark-volume5-issue2-1984.pdf

 

 

hope this helps…

 

  • Glenn

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/a3d84209-3f3d-49ab-bed6-24189be359a6n%40googlegroups.com.

Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 12:21:08 AM12/1/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Hi Roland,

   Can you describe the process you are doing in a little more detail? It sounds like you are H8DUtility to extract the files, and then what are you doing to get them onto a soft-sectored disk? There may be a bug in h8dUtility that includes extra sectors at the end of the file. There is a "Last Sector Index" in the HDOS directory index, so it should be able to always extract the exact size.

If you have a system that can create disks from IMD images, you may be able to convert the h8d images directly to an IMD image you could write. I'd have to double check, but I believe that the distribution disks that heath provided in soft-sectored format used 10 sectors per track and 256 bytes per sector, exactly like the hard-sectored format.

Mark


 

--

Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 1:10:57 AM12/1/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Hey Roland,

    I wrote a tool, which I haven't pushed to github yet, that will extract files from disks in the h17disk format. I just tested it with the HDOS 2.0 distribution images, I have in the h17disk format, and got the expected size:

ls -la HDOS_2_0_Software_Tools/XREF.ABS
-rw-r--r--  1 mgarlanger  staff  3328 Nov 30 23:48 HDOS_2_0_Software_Tools/XREF.ABS

I've attached a zip file with files from all 3 of the HDOS distribution disks extracted. Although I did have to remove all the *.SYS files due to google blocking it in emails.

Mark


HDOS_2_0_minus_SYS_files.zip

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 5:24:30 AM12/1/21
to SEBHC
Dear Mark, dear Glenn,

thank you for your valuable hints and files.

some brief answers:
@Glenn: yes, I'm aware of this difference. For my conversion process (described below) the correct number of really used sectors is important. My conversion process then allocates the necessary extra sectors automatically. 
@ Mark: thank you for the files, these files contain the exact amount of used sectors, no extra sectors attached 

What I'm doing in detail:

I purchased a H89 nome month ago, in good shape and for an affordable price (it is the machine I dreamed of in my youth)

It comes with the 64k RAM extension, H37 Floppycontroller and Siemens FDD 100-5 Floppy
Unfortunately no serial interface card is installed. And without any software.

I have 2 Gotek-Floppyemulators for my other computers, I connected them to the flopyinterface and I was successful to find two disk images in H37 format that I was able to boot from. I assume they are from Noberto (because one system prompts "NORBY"). 
One Image is labeled "HDOS 2.0 H67/H37/SSD" and seems to be a 80T/2S disk image, the other is
labeled "HDOS 2.0 (Y2K, SSM2, 2/4 MHz)" and seems to be a 40T/2S image.
I can boot with both images.

With 2 virtual floppies I have a convenient set-up to run HDOS 2, BASIC, MBASIC and ASM, but a lot of good software is missing.

All attempts using H8DUtility to convert the .h8d-files into the .hfe-format , which Gotek requires, failed. I've read all the articles here in the forum, nothing helped. The images are not recognised and regarded as un-initialized disks. Only images from a real soft-sector disk in e.g. .imd format can be converted (sometimes), and those images are rare.

To built my software collection I did the following:
  • copying the two working disk images to get more "free" disks in Gotek
  • extracting .h8d-files of interest with H8DUtility on my computer
  • copying text files like .asm , .acm and .bas into an text editor
  • Sending the text-stream via serial connection to the H89 (either into EDIT or directly into BASIC) and saving the result on the H89. ASM-files were then assembled and stored on the H89
The serial connection without serial interface is a little bit tricky: I attached the serial line in parallel to the connection terminal- CPU (using two diodes and two resistors for decoupling). Works great and is a good alternative for a line printer

For binary files like  .abs - files I opened them in a hex-editor on the PC (here I found out that they contain more than I need), copied the hex-data as ASCII into an text editor, divided the text stream in chunks of 64 characters with a DATA" upfront and a closing "CR at the end, sending these DATA statements to MBASIC on the H89 and writing the contents of the DATA statements byte-by-byte, record-by-record with a MBASIC Programm on my virtual disks (using the random-file option "R" of MBASIC). The resulting .abs-files work flawlessly.

@Glenn: this procedure generates files with the exact file size in CAT and the exact larger size of allocated space using CAT /ALL. 


Sounds complicated, but it works ! Around 20 interesting tools and programs have been send to the H89 and my software collection for demonstration purposes is nearly complete.

Roland

Glenn Roberts

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 6:23:15 AM12/1/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Wow. Some very innovative work. Seems like a lot of effort to move files, but if you’re only doing small batches I guess it’s workable. A serial card would seem like a good investment here. Norberto also had a serial board with USB capability


Which is how I did file transfers to the H89.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 1, 2021, at 5:24 AM, Roland Langfeld <rolandl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mark, dear Glenn,

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 1:33:35 PM12/1/21
to SEBHC
yes indeed, it would be nice to have a serial card, although  my parallel TT:-solution works fine: I can print or list to my PC and send Data to the H89. 

When I bought the H89 I got a separate serial card (see picture), it looks like a homebrew-project. The problem with this card is, if I plug it into slot 5 (I assume it belongs to slot 5) the CPU will not run, I get only one beep at start-up.

Roland



9EA2CE06-D364-4326-9A53-57E26DEF3D96.jpeg

Norberto Collado

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 1:47:01 PM12/1/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

I will check my stash of boards this weekend. If I still have left any bare H89-USB-Serial boards, I will send you one. Ping me on Sunday if you do not hear from me as I get busy with family. 😊

 

Norberto

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 2:03:06 PM12/1/21
to SEBHC
Norby: thank you so much !

Roland

Les Bird

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 2:04:26 PM12/1/21
to SEBHC
Roland,

If you do get a serial card and you do get H8DUtility 3 and H37IMGR running via LPT (340Q) port then I made an update to H8DUtility 3 that lets you write H8D images directly to H37 soft-sector floppies. This is possible because H37 single density format is exactly the same as H17 format, 10 256-byte sectors per track, so it's a one-to-one mapping. Would probably be a lot easier to do it this way then to extract file-by-file and copy it over TT:

Also, what version of H8DUtility are you using to extract the files? I might have to fix a bug with that.

And finally floppydisk.com has good prices on bulk soft-sector 5.25" floppies. I've stocked up myself.

Les

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 2:11:46 PM12/1/21
to SEBHC
Hi Les,

thankyou for this offer: to be honest, I'm fine with my software collection so far. But as soon as I have a working serial card I will let you know. What I miss is a bootable CP/M-disk. All H37-images around do not work with my system

regards
Roland

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 2:16:25 PM12/1/21
to SEBHC

additionally: I used a copy of H8DUtility which I downloaded a few days ago, it says 30.5.2020. 
I already ordered a full-hight 80 T/ss floppy via eBay as a substitute for my Siemens-Drive (where most recently the drive motor died)

Roland

Norberto Collado

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 2:50:29 PM12/1/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

I should have some GOTEK images booting CP/M. I will check tonight once I get home.

 

Norby

Kenneth L. Owen tx836519

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 3:26:36 PM12/1/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

On the 5.25” floppy disks, I have been getting mine from Coleman’s Military surplus (https\\www.colemans.com)

            50 disks           -           $24.95

            100 disks         -           $39.95

            500 disks         -           $149.95

  • ken

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 3:26:57 PM12/1/21
to SEBHC
Norby: great !!

Roland

Les Bird

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 8:13:40 PM12/1/21
to SEBHC
Ken,

Wow, who would've thought. Excellent prices. That's Wiki material.

Are they new or recycled?

Les

Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 8:43:51 PM12/1/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Have you tried the IMD copy I have on my site for CP/M 2.2.03 - https://heathkit.garlanger.com/software/library/Heath/CPM/



Kenneth L. Owen tx836519

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 10:02:12 PM12/1/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

New old stock in boxes of ten.

Darrell Pelan

unread,
Dec 1, 2021, 10:18:25 PM12/1/21
to SEBHC
Hi,

I attached a bootable CPM image to try out for the Gotek. You can convert it to an IMD file with the HxCFloppy program and then use HDUtility to look at the files. It's set for 19.2k for the terminal, so you will need to take the terminal off line and type ESC r M, then go online as the system boots. It if works, I can make a generic CP/M disk for you.

  Darrell

WIN89_IMD.hfe

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 5:01:58 AM12/2/21
to SEBHC
Dear Darell,

yes, this image boots, but then it ends up in an error:

      64K HEATH/ZENITH CP/M 2.2X03  09/17/81
      FOR H17 H37 DISKS WITH OPTION(S) IE3

      MICRONICS TECHNOLOGY 20 MEGA BYTE HARD DISK

      Bdos Err On A: Bad Sector

Roland


Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 5:04:39 AM12/2/21
to SEBHC
Dear Mark, yes, I did. The image is bootable, but it ends up in an endless loop displaying

      64K HEATH/ZENITH CP/M 2.2X03  09/07/81
      FOR H37 DISKS WITH OPTION(S) IE3

      64K HEATH/ZENITH CP/M 2.2X03  09/07/81
      FOR H37 DISKS WITH OPTION(S) IE3

      64K HEATH/ZENITH CP/M 2.2X03  09/07/81
      FOR H37 DISKS WITH OPTION(S) IE3

      ...
      ...

which can't be stopped whatever key or Ctl-key I press.

Roland

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 5:07:42 AM12/2/21
to SEBHC
general comment on the two CPM-images: maybe the problem is, that both systems expect a hard drive to be connected (which I do not have)

Roland

pbi...@gmail.com

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 7:06:35 AM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

Norby:  If you uncover a second PCB, I’m interested as well :-}.  Thank you.

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Roland Langfeld

Sent: Wednesday, December 1, 2021 2:03 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] .h8d files in SEBHC archive

 

Norby: thank you so much !

 

Roland

 

Norby schrieb am Mittwoch, 1. Dezember 2021 um 19:47:01 UTC+1:

I will check my stash of boards this weekend. If I still have left any bare H89-USB-Serial boards, I will send you one. Ping me on Sunday if you do not hear from me as I get busy with family. 😊

Norberto

-----

Kenneth L. Owen tx836519

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 7:15:39 AM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

Hi Guys,

 

I believe I made this image file to support deployment of Norberto’s Z-67-IDE several years ago.

            -ken

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

Darrell Pelan

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 10:28:18 AM12/2/21
to SEBHC
I'm not sure what to do about the bad sector message since it is a digital image. I'll see if I can make a bootable generic disk. The code doesn't care if there is no hard disk. It's the image I use on my 89's.

  Darrell

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 10:56:45 AM12/2/21
to SEBHC
Darrell,

pls. do not invest too much time ! I'm happy with my HDOS-images, assembler, Basic, games, everything is running fine,

regards
Roland

Joseph Travis

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 11:18:58 AM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Les made a statement previously that intrigues me.  He stated that the H37 single density format is identical to the H17 format... That implies that a H37 single density disk should be readable / writeable with a H17 using a VSG (and vice versa when using soft sector disk).  Has anyone verified this?  Thanks!

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc


Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 12:15:05 PM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
This image does not support a hard drive, and I've used it on my emulator without any issues. I wonder if there is something not working correctly with the 0-org hardware that CP/M requires, but HDOS 2.0 does not. Would be interesting to see if HDOS 3.0 boots, since it also requires the 0-org hardware.

Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 12:20:59 PM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Hey Joe,

   That would not work since the format is not identical down at the bits level/sector encoding. Soft-sectored disks use special encoding to mark the start of sectors, which hard-sectored disks do not. Les was basically stating that the sector size and sectors per track were identical so starting from the h8d image, both could be created (with the right software). Another limitation there, is that a bootable hard-sectored H8D would not be bootable when written as a soft-sectored disks. At least with HDOS where the SY.DVD driver is specific to the boot device controller.

Mark

norberto.collado koyado.com

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 3:42:19 PM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Try this image on Gotek and let me know the outcome. 

It should boot on the H37 controller. If it works fine, you should see the following. It might hang for a while during floppy setup verification. If it works, I will send you a larger image with more files.



Norby

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mark Garlanger <garl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 2, 2021 9:20 AM
DSKA0001.hfe

Norberto Collado

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 3:45:10 PM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 3:51:36 PM12/2/21
to SEBHC
Norby, thankyou , I will try it tomorrow (it is 22:00 my time)

Roland

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 3:53:03 PM12/2/21
to SEBHC
Mark: there is an HDOS 3.0 image, that boots, but then gets stuck. Org 0 hardware may be the reason: how can I check whether my H89 has this hardware installed ?

Roland

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 3:56:54 PM12/2/21
to SEBHC

if it helps to find out what hardware I have:

64 k RAM (48 k and 16 k on separate board)

Memory Decode ROM U517 444-66

JJ501 - JJ504: 1|1| wire going elsewhere |0  

IO-Decode ROM: 444-61

Code ROM: 444-84  

Sec Adress Decoder: 444-83  

JJ 505 - 508: 1| wire going elsewere |1 |1

ROM 444-19, 

RAM 2112 on U23 and U25 


Roland

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 4:52:23 PM12/2/21
to SEBHC
Hello Norby,

I could not wait and installed your image tonight: this image doesn't  boot. After "boot"  the result is 
      ?boot error 
      H:

Roland

Mike Enkelis

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 4:58:31 PM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
If you can install a 3.25” floppy drive I can send you a bootable disk in the mail.  

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roland Langfeld <rolandl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 2, 2021 1:52:23 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 5:03:01 PM12/2/21
to SEBHC
Mike: unfortunately I'm unable to install a real 3.5 " floppy. 

Roland

norberto.collado koyado.com

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 5:49:23 PM12/2/21
to SEBHC
Interesting. So, you can boot HDSO 2.0 from H37 controller, but not CP/M and HDOS3. If that is the case, something wrong with the ORG-0 circuit. Also, how much memory the system has as my image expects 64KB. 

Norby


Sent: Thursday, December 2, 2021 2:03 PM

norberto.collado koyado.com

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 6:11:07 PM12/2/21
to SEBHC
I forgot to ask which port # the H37 is using as I might have a different port #. That will explain the:

 ?boot error 
      H:

Norby


From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of norberto.collado koyado.com <norberto...@koyado.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 2, 2021 2:49 PM

Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 8:39:20 PM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Interesting. It sounds like something is up with either the org-0, or maybe the memory that replaces the bottom 8k has some bad chips. Only the very early H89s did not have the ORG-0 support, and there were updates for it. I think the Z-37 may require the org-0 update. I'd have to check to see if I have any info on what was required to convert the original H89s to support ORG-0. Maybe someone knows what was required to add ORG-0 support.

Mark

norberto.collado koyado.com

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 8:56:11 PM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
I saw this comment on the internet. I did not know that!

"Since initial versions of the H8 and H89 computers had the lower 8k of memory space reserved for system ROM and RAM, a modification was required for the older systems called "ORG-0". This modification allowed the computer to remap the lower 8k to be user RAM by setting a special bit in an I/O port. Newer H89's had this functionality built-in."

Thanks,
Norby


From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mark Garlanger <garl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 2, 2021 5:39 PM

Joseph Travis

unread,
Dec 2, 2021, 9:17:53 PM12/2/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
You can find the information in the H-88 / H-89 / Z-89 / Z-90 Configuration Guide.

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc


Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 3, 2021, 12:51:42 AM12/3/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 3, 2021, 5:15:47 AM12/3/21
to SEBHC
Hello Norby,

this was a good hint ! I use 2 Goteks, one as internal device replacing the built-in floppy and a second on the external floppy port. I did all tests with the external floppy. Using the internal Gotek your DSKA0001.hfe boots:
        H: Boot
      64K LLL/HEATH/ZENITH QUIKSTOR (C) CP/M 2.2.04  12/01/13
      FOR H37 SASI DISKS WITH OPTION(S) TIBE3, H8SPD

but then it is unresponsive (on the Gotek I can see that it is circulating between track 0 and 2 forever).

All results on the other disk-images are not affected by the choice of the floppy-connection, they behave the same if internally or externally connected.

Roland

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 3, 2021, 5:21:40 AM12/3/21
to SEBHC
Hello Mark,

I went through the Heath-instructions, as far as I understood my ROM and jumper-settings support 64k. I described my settings in a posting above already:

       64 k RAM (48 k and 16 k on separate board)
      Memory Decode ROM U517 444-66
      JJ501 - JJ504: 1|1| wire going elsewhere |0  
      IO-Decode ROM: 444-61
      Code ROM: 444-84  
      Sec Adress Decoder: 444-83  
      JJ 505 - 508: 1| wire going elsewere |1 |1
      ROM 444-19, 
      RAM 2112 on U23 and U25

Roland

Norberto Collado

unread,
Dec 3, 2021, 2:40:31 PM12/3/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

 

Great news!

 

Let me work this weekend in getting the three original Heath CP/M floppies into the Gotek.  It is better to have the original CP/M disks to do a new installation.

 

Thanks,

 

Norberto

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roland Langfeld <rolandl...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:15 AM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] .h8d files in SEBHC archive

 

Hello Norby,

Image removed by sender.

Norberto Collado

unread,
Dec 4, 2021, 12:14:22 AM12/4/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

I downloaded the CPM 2.2.04 Distribution set. It is a set of 4 floppy drives. How I extract the CP/M H8D images into a floppy? I cannot remember how I did it years ago.

 

Thanks,

Norberto

Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 4, 2021, 1:01:41 AM12/4/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Hey Norberto,

    Looks like you missed the part that Roland said "but then it is unresponsive (on the Gotek I can see that it is circulating between track 0 and 2 forever)." So since that one wasn't working, I don't think converting the others would help him.

Mark


Norberto Collado

unread,
Dec 4, 2021, 1:23:23 AM12/4/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

That image uses the H67 controller, so it should be better to have only H37 images. So, better to have the original H37 images on Gotek.

 

Norberto

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mark Garlanger <garl...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 3, 2021 at 10:00 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] .h8d files in SEBHC archive

 

Hey Norberto,

Error! Filename not specified.

Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 4, 2021, 1:57:22 AM12/4/21
to se...@googlegroups.com
But he hasn't been able to get any CP/M or HDOS 3.0 images working. He's already tried the distribution ones.

Mark

Roland Langfeld

unread,
Dec 4, 2021, 3:36:21 AM12/4/21
to SEBHC
Hello all,

I've tried nearly 30 - 40 images I found in the web, I made the following experience:

the majority are 102 kB-sized .h8d files, sector-by-sector copies of 40T/1S disks. There are some 200/400 kB images from 80T/1or2S disks. They all do not work on a Gotek directly (G. doesn't support .h8d) and any conversion to .hfe (via H8DUtil) fails (reason see below).

I  found only 4 or 5 working soft-sector images for Gotek soft sector format: 3 or 4 are from Norberto, one from an unknown source. These images have a size of 2 MB (80T/2S) resp 1 MB (40T/2S). They are fully usable

With a few other copies the H37-controller at least is able  to read the boot-sector (creating the welcome message on screen), but any further attempt to acces the next sectors fails.

The reason for that failure is many-fold:
  • A soft sector controller has no ability to access a sector directly: A soft sector disk image is a full track record including sync bytes, sector headers, sector contents, checksums, gap-bytes etc. The controller reads the full stream and extracts the neccessary information befor it picks the desired sector contents out. Because .h8d provides only the sector contents converting it into soft sector format requires deep knowledge of the track structure.
  • I assume (I haven't found detailed description of the exact Heath file format) that soft- and hard- sector formats differ in some check bytes to tell the controller the type of disk , # of tracks, sides etc.. And there may be differences in the length and location of the directory.
  • There is a big difference between using an disk-image in an emulator or with a real controller: an emulator does not emulate the controller electronics but access the sectors directly

A conversion from .h8d to a soft sector image has to take into account all these details. 

The only path to success would be, that someone is able to make a soft-sector image from a "real" soft sector disk with a utility like IMD from Dave Dunfield. I expect such a .imd-file can be converted successfully to .hfe-Format.
I have used IMD several times for older 8"floppies with success. Unfortunately I do not have any Heath software on floppy to check this approach

Roland

Mark Garlanger

unread,
Dec 4, 2021, 10:02:23 AM12/4/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

That is how the IMD images on my site was created, directly from the soft-sectored disks with IMD.

Mark

Norberto Collado

unread,
Dec 4, 2021, 6:16:17 PM12/4/21
to se...@googlegroups.com

Hello Roland,

 

I did check for H89 spare boards and did not find any for the H89-USB-Serial board. I’m fine ordering some as others might be interested as well.

 

Thanks,

Norby

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roland Langfeld <rolandl...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 11:03 AM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] .h8d files in SEBHC archive

 

Norby: thank you so much !

 

Roland

 

Norby schrieb am Mittwoch, 1. Dezember 2021 um 19:47:01 UTC+1:

I will check my stash of boards this weekend. If I still have left any bare H89-USB-Serial boards, I will send you one. Ping me on Sunday if you do not hear from me as I get busy with family. 😊

 

Norberto

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roland Langfeld <rolandl...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 10:33 AM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] .h8d files in SEBHC archive

 

yes indeed, it would be nice to have a serial card, although  my parallel TT:-solution works fine: I can print or list to my PC and send Data to the H89. 

 

When I bought the H89 I got a separate serial card (see picture), it looks like a homebrew-project. The problem with this card is, if I plug it into slot 5 (I assume it belongs to slot 5) the CPU will not run, I get only one beep at start-up.

 

Roland

 

 

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

Darrell Pelan

unread,
Dec 5, 2021, 12:02:00 AM12/5/21