Aztec C

[Richard Davis Jr.]

Did anyone in the group get the Aztec C compiler disks?

I managed to get the HDOS version.

Hopefully they work. If so, I can push them on to the site if allowed.

Rick

[Joseph Travis]

Cool!

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[Mark Garlanger]

Interesting, I was not aware Aztec C was offered for HDOS. My ebay searches missed those auctions. Strange that the copies sold for more than the original disks. Any idea differences between Aztec CII and Aztec C? Odd that they both have the same serial number and I see he sold them as a set for the CP/M version, but separately for the HDOS version.

Mark

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

Mark,

Can't remember how I came across it. I did a search one day for unrelated stuff and that popped up.

I don't know the difference between c and cii. 

It was strange how the stuff was auctioned. I tried the cpm but it blew throgh my limit.

Rick

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[Mark Garlanger]

Hmm, wikipedia makes no mention of an HDOS version - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_C

The CII version doc is here, although it is a newer version than the disk that was on ebay - http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/docs/Aztec_C_1.06_User_Manual_Mar84.pdf

An ad from 85 that makes no mention of the HDOS version - https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Consumer/Archive-Byte-IDX/IDX/80s/86-87/Byte-1985-07-OCR-Page-0067.pdf

Or this ad from Aug 83 - http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/ads/MicroAugust83.pdf although it does mention that the CP/M version is available in Heath format.

Looks like manuals are available on bitsavers - http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/manx/Aztec_C_II_Z80_User_Manual_1.05_Sep83.pdf

I hope the disks are readable, it appears to be quite rare.

Mark

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[Glenn Roberts]

Looking at the manual I see section 1.5 says it runs on CP/M or HDOS

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 18, 2023, at 8:52 PM, Mark Garlanger <garl...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Richard Davis Jr.]

Mark,

I found the CII manual and it mentions HDOS.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/manx/Aztec_C_II_Z80_User_Manual_1.05_Sep83.pdf

Rick

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[Glenn Roberts]

This is one of the most significant software finds for the group in years. Congratulations Rick! Software Archaeology 101.

 While I am a big fan of Software Toolworks c/80 the Aztec product seems to bring a level of professionalism we haven’t had for HDOS. It sounds like it is a full K&R implementation including long, float and true double arithmetic. Other nice features are overlays and object model librarian (I’ve never located a Microsoft lib80 for HDOS and suspect they only had it on CP/M). It sounds like Aztec can also work with MACRO-80 and hence the Microsoft and I believe DRI tools, plus support for DRI symbol tables and DDT (on CP/M). It requires a fully loaded system (56/64K RAM) . Not sure if you need zero org for HDOS or if it takes advantage of it if it’s there?

It is apparently Z80 only and executables make use of IX & IY registers for parameter passing, so that’s a bit of a bummer for the 8080 crowd. It will be interesting to compare the size and speed of executables vs. those produced by C/80.

Rick: if you would consider loaning these disks to Mark he could make archival quality copies using the hardware and software he has. That would be great. Hopefully this would then become part of Mark’s well-organized tool collection.

Once again, congratulations on this great find! (Now we also should try and locate the CP/M version, but perhaps that will be easier - hopefully archived on one of the sites…)

- Glenn 

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 18, 2023, at 3:05 PM, Richard Davis Jr. <rickdav...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Richard Davis Jr.]

Glenn,

Thanks and I just hope the floppies are readable.

Is there more to creating archives other than creating H8D files?

I can create those. If there is more to it and the disks work. My first step is making working copies.

After that I could send them to Mark.

The floppies are supposed to arrive tomorrow.

Here's hoping.

Rick

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[glenn.f...@gmail.com]

Yes for archival we should use more than just H8D images.  Mark uses advanced systems that involve both hardware and software. He has developed custom software for the FC5025 but also is using the Applesauce system. These systems capture every bit flux on the disk and are the most complete & thorough backup for archival purposes.  I believe they can also retrieve information that would be unreadable on standard floppy drive setups.  Mark has also developed archival disk formats that go beyond H8D to capture the out-of-band signal information in each sector (his latest version of the format includes H8D compatibility).  More info:

 

https://heathkit.garlanger.com/diskformats/

 

that said, it’s understandable that you’re anxious to see what’s on the disks.  Just make sure your drive heads are clean and minimize the number of times you use then as each use could be eroding oxide and risks some sort of irrecoverable incident.  If it were me I’d only access them one time – use my FC5025 setup, or Les Bird’s H89LDR to capture the image.  If you’ve got a working setup of Les’ stuff I’d use that – capture the H8D images on a PC. Once you have those we can make any number of working copies, then (if you’re willing) get the disks to Mark for a more thorough archival…  and if you run into problems don’t despair as Mark may be able to read most or all of the disk even though the H17 can’t.

 

looking forward to hearing more!

 

• Glenn

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[Dick McCoy]

Rick:

I got the CP/M disks.  And, the copies of the HDOS disks.

Maybe they will be readable.

Dick McCoy

[glenn.f...@gmail.com]

That’s great to know Dick!  Are these the full original distributions (either original media or copies)?  Do you have a capability to create sharable images of these disks?  Or are you willing to loan them out for that purpose?

 

Thx.

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[Dick McCoy]

Glenn:

I won the eBay auction for these.... like Rick did.

I have H89 and Les '  H89LDR setup to a PC.  I hope to take your advice

and do a copy to an image, so we can check the results.

Dick

[Glenn Roberts]

Awesome

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[Mark Garlanger]

I've found that floppy disks and their data are surprisingly reliable. Many disks have no errors when reading, and the ones that do have errors, usually have a handful of bad sectors (out of a possible 400) which are bad. And when it does appear to be many errors, it's usually due to dirty disks which leave residue on the drive heads. For those, the attempt to read the disk actually removed most of the dirt from the disk, and after carefully cleaning the heads, I've been able to read most of those too. 

The most important thing is to get the programs and files from these disks. I haven't used the H89LDR for imaging, but I'm assuming it will properly check the header block and data block for valid checksums and report if there are errors.  If there are no errors on the disks, the H89LDR should be able to get us all the data that is needed. It won't give us the original header data, but that can be reconstructed. It also won't show if there is any sector interleaving, but I haven't found many disks which used that. If the disks do have errors, then using a dedicated device like the FC5025 (http://www.deviceside.com/fc5025.html) or Applesauce controller(https://applesaucefdc.com) will provide a much better chance at successfully imaging the disk. These systems provide the actual flux signals and it is up to the software to process it. The applesauce can also allow the user to add or remove signals to help in recovering the data. 

Ideally having archival quality images would be great, but I'm not aware of any software for these systems using copy-protection which would require a more complete capture of the disk. Version 1 of the H17Disk image format tried to be at that archival quality, but there wasn't any interest in that. For V2, I worked with the creator of Applesauce to define a format that would be nearly as simple to use as the raw H8D, but not require a program (or the user) to determine the OS in order to properly re-create the header block (since CP/M and HDOS had incompatible differences with the volume number). It would be great if that is picked up by the other tools and becomes the new standard. 

Mark

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

Aztec C Floppies received.

All 4 were readable and I immediately made backups.

I will create H8D files later today or over the weekend.

I ran both the c compiler and the cii compiler on a file I compiled using c80. Lots of complaining because it has embedded assembly code in it.

One issue with cii was it ran out of memory when I first ran it. I deleted a couple of .dvd drivers I didn't really need and that fixed that.

Rick

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[Lee Adamson]

I don't mean to be a pest, but were images made of these disks?  I am quite interested in snagging a copy.

[glenn.f...@gmail.com]

I will work with Rick Davis to post the software on the SEBHC site…

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