Gery's V4 Build Adventure

225 views
Skip to first unread message

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 4:24:19 PMJun 14
to SEBHC
I thought I would start a thread about my V4 build.  Hopefully some will find it interesting and maybe encouraging.
Please feel free to comment and lend advice if you see anything astray.

We pick up our story at the end of session 5.  Each session has been between 45 minutes and an hour and 20 minutes.

At the end of 5, all the sockets, connectors and jumpers are on.  The only parts on the board at the moment that purposely modify the flow of electrons are the oscillators.

I installed ALL the jumper locations as well as a few extra near the header connectors.
I do not plan to have use for all of the jumpers but I did not want to suffer later from jumper envy.

I learned that my cushy engineering career has allowed my calloused finger tips to heal.  Getting a few of those 2 pin jumpers perfect was painful.

I did notice that the jumpers I installed near the headers fit firm.  I vote that future jumper holes have similar spacing.  But that may be violating some PCB footprint rule.

Anyway, my next step is to install the less "bendy" leaded components.  Resistor networks etc.  Then tantalum / electrolytic caps, resistors and decoupling caps.

The old school regulators will be last so I can make sure they fit up to the mounting bracket.

I will power up the board on the bench without any ICs in place to make sure I have not made any costly mistakes.

Stay tuned if interested.

Gery

Session 5.jpg

Terry Smedley

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 7:19:30 PMJun 14
to SEBHC
Looking good, Geri.

Will be awaiting your future installments!

Terry

Terry Smedley

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 7:21:07 PMJun 14
to SEBHC
I am going to have to change my dictionary, Gery!  

Apologies again


On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 1:24:19 PM UTC-7 gkisselsp...@gmail.com wrote:

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 7:38:09 PMJun 14
to se...@googlegroups.com
No worries. You are in great company. My favorite aunt used to address cards to me spelled that way. No spell correction excuse for her. I never did figure out why she did that. 
Gery 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/64348cb1-6ceb-4478-930f-050dd2743e71n%40googlegroups.com.

Glenn Roberts

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 8:01:50 PMJun 14
to se...@googlegroups.com
My crude technique for installing the jumper headers is to just tack one  post in place with minimal solder (at which point the jumper is almost always crooked) then install a closed-end shorting block on the jumper (providing thermal insulation) and then pressing on the shorting block I can reheat the solder and get the jumper to seat properly, then do the final soldering…

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 14, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Terry Smedley <terry....@gmail.com> wrote:

Looking good, Geri.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/9f9e5688-90bf-4a7c-9c3e-eb3d3750418dn%40googlegroups.com.

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 8:07:12 PMJun 14
to se...@googlegroups.com
Good tip. I'll have to try that next time. 
I use an alligator clip to grab one pin.
Works most of the time. 
But not a lot to grab on to. 

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/7D12B033-59D4-4D1B-963A-0F5CF504FE1E%40gmail.com.

terry.smedley

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 8:09:08 PMJun 14
to se...@googlegroups.com
Glenn is smarter than me.  I follow the first part of his procedure, then attempt to put my finger on the pin that isn't soldered while I heat the soldered pin and straighten it out.  Ouch!  I get the wrong pin a lot.

I've had some success using duct tape across the front of the board to hold several headers in place while I solder one pin.  I think I may have seen that used in a video of the 64K card build?

Other techniques being used?

Terry



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/7D12B033-59D4-4D1B-963A-0F5CF504FE1E%40gmail.com.

Douglas Miller

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 8:35:46 PMJun 14
to se...@googlegroups.com

That's my approach, too. Except that since I would have recently picked up the soldering iron by the wrong end, my finger is relatively numb to any additional pain.

George Farris

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 9:09:53 PMJun 14
to se...@googlegroups.com
I used to say to my associates at work, "It's a poor mind that can only find one way to spell a word!"

George

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 16, 2021, 4:47:53 PMJun 16
to SEBHC
Build session 7 is done.  See photo below.
Resistor networks, LEDs and decoupling caps installed.

BOM question on decoupling caps.  The BOM states that each IC has a decoupling cap.  I see 4 that do not.
Am I missing something?
Also the BOM states 39 caps and suggests ordering a bag of 100.  I tried to do that but the bag part number was not available so I ordered 40 caps.

I have installed 37 caps and would like confirmation that is the correct number.  I count 7 for the DUART board.  Total of 44.

Gonna be short a few caps.
Gery


Session 7.jpg

terry.smedley

unread,
Jun 16, 2021, 6:28:51 PMJun 16
to se...@googlegroups.com
Hi Gery:

I would not be surprised at a small count discrepancy in the 0.1uf count.  If your count is 37+7, I will update the BOM.

Norberto is generous with caps (not a criticism).  Some designers use far fewer than 1:1.  You will not have any trouble with a few missing  caps, certainly not in the short term, and especially if the missing ones aren't all in one area.  Others can share their take.

Terry



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Gery Kissel <gkisselsp...@gmail.com>
Date: 6/16/21 1:47 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: Gery's V4 Build Adventure

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 16, 2021, 6:31:20 PMJun 16
to se...@googlegroups.com
I actually found places for 2 more on the V4 board. 39 it is.
Plus 7 for the DUART board. 

norberto...@koyado.com

unread,
Jun 17, 2021, 12:23:48 AMJun 17
to se...@googlegroups.com

On decoupling caps, for 74xx it is recommended one 0.01uf or 0.1uf cap for every IC as close as possible to the VCC pin and with GND connected thru a via to the ground plane. Older recommendations was to use “one” 0.01uf or 0.1uf capacitor for every 2 to 3 IC’s. I do try to use one decoupling cap per IC, but sometimes IC positioning is hard to do as we add more functionality to the board, so I default to the older recommendations.

 

If you look at the original H8 front panel board, all decoupling caps are on the 5V/GND voltage rails. Not even one cap is closed to the IC VCC/GND pins. The H8 front panel board is working fine, even the decoupling caps being a mile away from each IC.

 

Why I’m using 0.1uf decoupling caps? The specs for the memory IC’s recommends to use  a 0.1uf per IC. So this is my standard now.

 

For analog IC’s or Oscillators, I used an inductor or ferrite bead along with a 10uf + 01uf cap to provide additional filtering in noisy digital environment. You will see such this on the H37/H67/H17 controllers that I designed. On the H8-SSI I used them to protect the Music circuit, APU, and Analog voltage decoder. On the H8 SSI music circuit, I used them as “mixed-signal” between AGND and GND ground pins to avoid using two dedicated linear regulators for such circuit. In other cases I used it as a suppressing noise at the source. So you will see combinations of all these methods.

 

Gery,

 

How many caps do you need and values?

 

Thanks,

Norberto

 

 

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of terry.smedley
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 3:29 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

Hi Gery:

 

I would not be surprised at a small count discrepancy in the 0.1uf count.  If your count is 37+7, I will update the BOM.

 

Norberto is generous with caps (not a criticism).  Some designers use far fewer than 1:1.  You will not have any trouble with a few missing  caps, certainly not in the short term, and especially if the missing ones aren't all in one area.  Others can share their take.

 

Terry

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Gery Kissel <gkisselsp...@gmail.com>

Date: 6/16/21 1:47 PM (GMT-08:00)

Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

Build session 7 is done.  See photo below.

Resistor networks, LEDs and decoupling caps installed.

 

BOM question on decoupling caps.  The BOM states that each IC has a decoupling cap.  I see 4 that do not.

Am I missing something?

Also the BOM states 39 caps and suggests ordering a bag of 100.  I tried to do that but the bag part number was not available so I ordered 40 caps.

 

I have installed 37 caps and would like confirmation that is the correct number.  I count 7 for the DUART board.  Total of 44.

 

Gonna be short a few caps.

Gery

 

 

 

On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:09:53 PM UTC-4 frg wrote:

I used to say to my associates at work, "It's a poor mind that can only find one way to spell a word!"

 

George

 

 

 

On Mon, 2021-06-14 at 19:37 -0400, Gery Kissel wrote:

No worries. You are in great company. My favorite aunt used to address cards to me spelled that way. No spell correction excuse for her. I never did figure out why she did that. 

Gery 

 

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:21 PM Terry Smedley <terry....@gmail.com> wrote:

I am going to have to change my dictionary, Gery!  

 

Apologies again

 

On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 1:24:19 PM UTC-7 gkisselsp...@gmail.com wrote:

I thought I would start a thread about my V4 build.  Hopefully some will find it interesting and maybe encouraging.

Please feel free to comment and lend advice if you see anything astray.

 

We pick up our story at the end of session 5.  Each session has been between 45 minutes and an hour and 20 minutes.

 

At the end of 5, all the sockets, connectors and jumpers are on.  The only parts on the board at the moment that purposely modify the flow of electrons are the oscillators.

 

I installed ALL the jumper locations as well as a few extra near the header connectors.

I do not plan to have use for all of the jumpers but I did not want to suffer later from jumper envy.

 

I learned that my cushy engineering career has allowed my calloused finger tips to heal.  Getting a few of those 2 pin jumpers perfect was painful.

 

I did notice that the jumpers I installed near the headers fit firm.  I vote that future jumper holes have similar spacing.  But that may be violating some PCB footprint rule.

 

Anyway, my next step is to install the less "bendy" leaded components.  Resistor networks etc.  Then tantalum / electrolytic caps, resistors and decoupling caps.

 

The old school regulators will be last so I can make sure they fit up to the mounting bracket.

 

I will power up the board on the bench without any ICs in place to make sure I have not made any costly mistakes.

 

Stay tuned if interested.

 

Gery

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/f182fa0a-7de6-4a62-8680-a7995aa7acd5n%40googlegroups.com.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/60ca7b21.1c69fb81.c551b.a17f%40mx.google.com.

glenn.f...@gmail.com

unread,
Jun 17, 2021, 1:17:18 PMJun 17
to se...@googlegroups.com

Congratulations Gery. Steady progress!

 

I did encounter a glitch with my new setup.  For some reason CP/M 3 would not boot properly.  It would stop after printing “59K TPA” and never run the command processor.  HDOS and CP/M 2.2.04 were booting and running fine. Through a series of swapping out components I determined that the problem was the second 16C550 UART chip (U602) on the DUART board.  I haven’t looked at the schematic but that’s not even the one that services the console is it?  I don’t even have anything  connected to the second serial port.  anyway, upon replacing that UART all is well!

 

I am currently attempting to establish my working environment under the new 4.0 board.  My current thinking is to move VPIP over (probably via floppy drive) and then use VPIP and a USB stick to transfer the files I need.

On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:09:53 PM UTC-4 frg wrote:

I used to say to my associates at work, "It's a poor mind that can only find one way to spell a word!"

 

George

 

 

 

On Mon, 2021-06-14 at 19:37 -0400, Gery Kissel wrote:

No worries. You are in great company. My favorite aunt used to address cards to me spelled that way. No spell correction excuse for her. I never did figure out why she did that. 

Gery 

 

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:21 PM Terry Smedley <terry....@gmail.com> wrote:

I am going to have to change my dictionary, Gery!  

 

Apologies again

 

On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 1:24:19 PM UTC-7 gkisselsp...@gmail.com wrote:

I thought I would start a thread about my V4 build.  Hopefully some will find it interesting and maybe encouraging.

Please feel free to comment and lend advice if you see anything astray.

 

We pick up our story at the end of session 5.  Each session has been between 45 minutes and an hour and 20 minutes.

 

At the end of 5, all the sockets, connectors and jumpers are on.  The only parts on the board at the moment that purposely modify the flow of electrons are the oscillators.

 

I installed ALL the jumper locations as well as a few extra near the header connectors.

I do not plan to have use for all of the jumpers but I did not want to suffer later from jumper envy.

 

I learned that my cushy engineering career has allowed my calloused finger tips to heal.  Getting a few of those 2 pin jumpers perfect was painful.

 

I did notice that the jumpers I installed near the headers fit firm.  I vote that future jumper holes have similar spacing.  But that may be violating some PCB footprint rule.

 

Anyway, my next step is to install the less "bendy" leaded components.  Resistor networks etc.  Then tantalum / electrolytic caps, resistors and decoupling caps.

 

The old school regulators will be last so I can make sure they fit up to the mounting bracket.

 

I will power up the board on the bench without any ICs in place to make sure I have not made any costly mistakes.

 

Stay tuned if interested.

 

Gery

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/f182fa0a-7de6-4a62-8680-a7995aa7acd5n%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/60ca7b21.1c69fb81.c551b.a17f%40mx.google.com.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/CAK6523sGoHKK0QUsatZ81RMmwxRumE_-uL1219TSZNuUwQMzmg%40mail.gmail.com.

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 18, 2021, 5:32:35 PMJun 18
to SEBHC
Resistance if futile! 
Build session 8 is done.  Everything is on the V4 board except the resistors and 4 voltage regulators.

To be clear to the group, the bypass cap count on the V4 is 39.  The BOM is accurate.
AND
The bypass caps for the DUART are also on the BOM and correct.

Multiple errors on my part!  AND I have all the caps I need.  It turns out for some unknown reason I bought the caps for the V4 from Mouser and the DUART from Jameco.  

Happy Father's to my fellow dads out there!

Gery

Session 8.jpg

Glenn Roberts

unread,
Jun 18, 2021, 6:42:49 PMJun 18
to se...@googlegroups.com
Great. Recognizing there is no “right” way to do these, my practice is to do the lowest profile components first. So I first do all the bypass caps and then the resistors. The jumper headers are usually last…

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 18, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Gery Kissel <gkisselsp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Resistance if futile! 
Build session 8 is done.  Everything is on the V4 board except the resistors and 4 voltage regulators.

To be clear to the group, the bypass cap count on the V4 is 39.  The BOM is accurate.
AND
The bypass caps for the DUART are also on the BOM and correct.

Multiple errors on my part!  AND I have all the caps I need.  It turns out for some unknown reason I bought the caps for the V4 from Mouser and the DUART from Jameco.  

Happy Father's to my fellow dads out there!

Gery

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 18, 2021, 7:17:40 PMJun 18
to SEBHC
I agree with you Glenn except I start with the low profile stuff that do not have "bendy" legs.
IC sockets, oscillators, the buss header connectors.  Jumpers next because they can be literally a pain to install / hold on to with lots of other parts around.
Then come all the stuff you mention.

Each of us an artist in our own way (mind):)

Gery

norberto.collado koyado.com

unread,
Jun 18, 2021, 7:32:48 PMJun 18
to SEBHC
At the end of the day is going to be a high quality and beautiful board.🙂

Norby

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Gery Kissel <gkisselsp...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 4:17 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure
 

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 20, 2021, 3:56:36 PMJun 20
to SEBHC
It's Father's Day and boy am I stuffed!
Finished soldering components on the V4 board this afternoon.
Next steps:

Remove mounting bracket which was used at this point to locate the regulators.
Hook up the bench power supply and do some basic power checks.
Build the DUART board this week and check power.
Install ICs, jumpers, DUART board and mounting bracket.
Finish!

Session 9 Component.jpg

Terry Smedley

unread,
Jun 20, 2021, 4:28:31 PMJun 20
to se...@googlegroups.com
Very nice!  Having made it through the mainboard, you'll fly through the DUART!

Terry

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

norberto...@koyado.com

unread,
Jun 20, 2021, 4:57:15 PMJun 20
to se...@googlegroups.com

Almost there!

 

Norby

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:57 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

It's Father's Day and boy am I stuffed!

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

image001.jpg

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 20, 2021, 7:20:47 PMJun 20
to SEBHC
Just for fun, here is a shot of the "prickly" side of the board.
Not as pretty, but certainly where all the work gets done.

Session 9 Solder small.jpg

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 20, 2021, 7:24:41 PMJun 20
to SEBHC
Sensing the end of my "ancient computer" project, my family has already lined up my next project.

Next Project small.jpg

glenn.f...@gmail.com

unread,
Jun 20, 2021, 9:26:10 PMJun 20
to se...@googlegroups.com

There seems to be an endless array of space shuttles that Lego has come up with over the years.  I built 8480 way back when I coached a Mindstorms team.  It was a pretty cool kit. Lots of motors. Enjoy!

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:25 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

Sensing the end of my "ancient computer" project, my family has already lined up my next project.

 

 

On Sunday, June 20, 2021 at 7:20:47 PM UTC-4 Gery Kissel wrote:

Just for fun, here is a shot of the "prickly" side of the board.

Not as pretty, but certainly where all the work gets done.

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

image001.jpg

Norberto Collado

unread,
Jun 20, 2021, 9:28:37 PMJun 20
to se...@googlegroups.com

Please double check for any solder shorts or pins missing solder. Reflow any shinny area.

 

Thanks,

Norby

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Gery Kissel <gkisselsp...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, June 20, 2021 at 4:20 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

Just for fun, here is a shot of the "prickly" side of the board.

Not as pretty, but certainly where all the work gets done.

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

norberto...@koyado.com

unread,
Jun 21, 2021, 2:42:34 AMJun 21
to se...@googlegroups.com

Gery,

 

The 78L12 and 79L12 regulators are backwards. The flat section of the body must match the flat area of the symbol. Here is a picture of Glenn’s regulator vs yours. If they are backwards they will blow-up or burn out.

 

 

Thanks

Norberto

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:57 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

It's Father's Day and boy am I stuffed!

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

image001.png
image002.jpg

terry.smedley

unread,
Jun 21, 2021, 3:17:45 AMJun 21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Gery:

Also check the 2n3904 transistor by the bus connectors.  It may have the same orientation issue that Norberto noted.

Terry 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphon

-------- Original message --------
Date: 6/20/21 11:42 PM (GMT-07:00)
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/008b01d76668%2493469f70%24b9d3de50%24%40koyado.com.

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 21, 2021, 6:20:48 AMJun 21
to se...@googlegroups.com
Wow. Thanks for catching that! Total brain fart on my part.
At least I am consistent. Both regulators and 3 transistors are in wrong. 


You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/008b01d76668%2493469f70%24b9d3de50%24%40koyado.com.

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 21, 2021, 3:49:13 PMJun 21
to SEBHC
Green light!
Thanks again to Norberto and Terry for catching my TO92 case orientation screw up.  I guess I am going to have to re take the master builder test!
I got everything switched around correctly and applied power.

Supplies all working correctly.  Did a general sanity check for 5V around the board.

I hopefully will get to starting the DUART board tomorrow.


Session 10 small.jpg

norberto...@koyado.com

unread,
Jun 22, 2021, 1:34:26 AMJun 22
to se...@googlegroups.com

Glad that you shared such photo to avoid burning out the 12v regulators. 😊

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:49 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

Green light!

Thanks again to Norberto and Terry for catching my TO92 case orientation screw up.  I guess I am going to have to re take the master builder test!

I got everything switched around correctly and applied power.

 

Supplies all working correctly.  Did a general sanity check for 5V around the board.

 

I hopefully will get to starting the DUART board tomorrow.

 

 

 

On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 6:20:48 AM UTC-4 Gery Kissel wrote:

Wow. Thanks for catching that! Total brain fart on my part.

At least I am consistent. Both regulators and 3 transistors are in wrong. 

 

 

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:42 AM <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:

Gery,

 

The 78L12 and 79L12 regulators are backwards. The flat section of the body must match the flat area of the symbol. Here is a picture of Glenn’s regulator vs yours. If they are backwards they will blow-up or burn out.

 

 

Thanks

Norberto

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:57 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

It's Father's Day and boy am I stuffed!

Finished soldering components on the V4 board this afternoon.

Next steps:

 

Remove mounting bracket which was used at this point to locate the regulators.

Hook up the bench power supply and do some basic power checks.

Build the DUART board this week and check power.

Install ICs, jumpers, DUART board and mounting bracket.

Finish!

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/49bfbe7e-8f56-46a5-8814-ff50de81a1bfn%40googlegroups.com.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sebhc/WtApvdiP-cg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/008b01d76668%2493469f70%24b9d3de50%24%40koyado.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.

image001.jpg

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 22, 2021, 6:11:08 AMJun 22
to se...@googlegroups.com
Glad you took the time to look at them! 

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 22, 2021, 4:02:40 PMJun 22
to SEBHC
A little advice from the experts please....

I started the DUART board and ran into a snag.
I am using these instructions:  H8-Z80-V3_1-DUART-Assembly instructions.pdf
Step 1, solder the V4 / DUART header.

I ordered TS-120-G-A-2 for the DUART 20-pin Header.

One end of this header will not fit the socket on the V4 OR the DUART board holes.
The photo shows the header.
The pins with the cylindrical base will fit both the V4 socket and the holes in the DUART board.
The straight pins will not fit either board.  The pins don't fit by a lot.

Did I order the wrong part or am I missing something more fundamental?


DUART Header.jpg

glenn.f...@gmail.com

unread,
Jun 22, 2021, 4:57:12 PMJun 22
to se...@googlegroups.com

Here are the connectors I used

 

Amazon.com: ZYAMY 10pcs 2.54mm Male Breakable Pin Header Strip 40Pin 1x40P Single Row Straight Gold Plated Male Pin Header Strip Connector Black: Electronics

 

Measuring with my micrometer the pins with the cylindrical shoulder ring appear to be .64mm (.025”) in diameter; the longer pins are .46 mm (.018”) in diameter. The ones with the shoulder are soldered into the PC board; the longer narrower pins plug into the 40-pin socket on the CPU board.  The shouldered pin length is 4.3mm (.17”); the narrower pin length is 4.75mm (.186”).

 

I recall having trouble finding the right part here.  Norberto recommended this part

https://groups.google.com/g/sebhc/c/WZmRSwGvLNM/m/7dMmbavuAQAJ

 

I think this is more of the discussion:

https://groups.google.com/g/sebhc/c/SRP5OUD9Jec/m/bzUv0lQXFQAJ

sorry, since I had bought these parts a while ago I didn’t think to mention this.  At a glance I didn’t see any part spec’ed for this in the BOM? But perhaps we should update that?

 

Looking at the Mouser data sheet

ts-1360359.pdf (mouser.com)

 

it looks like the correct part would end in “-A” but you bought “-A-1”?, though that part appears to have different pin lengths than the one I used.

 

I believe you should be able to test your board by simply plugging in the 16C550 UART in the 40-pin receptacle on the CPU board (and possibly changing some jumpers, e.g. disabling the second com port and/or VDIP1?).  that would let you test things if you have to wait for more parts…

 

  • Glenn

 

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 4:03 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

A little advice from the experts please....

 

I started the DUART board and ran into a snag.

I am using these instructions:  H8-Z80-V3_1-DUART-Assembly instructions.pdf

Step 1, solder the V4 / DUART header.

 

I ordered TS-120-G-A-2 for the DUART 20-pin Header.

 

One end of this header will not fit the socket on the V4 OR the DUART board holes.

The photo shows the header.

The pins with the cylindrical base will fit both the V4 socket and the holes in the DUART board.

The straight pins will not fit either board.  The pins don't fit by a lot.

 

Did I order the wrong part or am I missing something more fundamental?

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, June 22, 2021 at 6:11:08 AM UTC-4 Gery Kissel wrote:

Glad you took the time to look at them! 

 

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 1:34 AM <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:

Glad that you shared such photo to avoid burning out the 12v regulators. 😊

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:49 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

Green light!

Thanks again to Norberto and Terry for catching my TO92 case orientation screw up.  I guess I am going to have to re take the master builder test!

I got everything switched around correctly and applied power.

 

Supplies all working correctly.  Did a general sanity check for 5V around the board.

 

I hopefully will get to starting the DUART board tomorrow.

 

 

 

On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 6:20:48 AM UTC-4 Gery Kissel wrote:

image001.jpg

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 22, 2021, 5:16:27 PMJun 22
to SEBHC
Glenn
With a name like ZYAMY, they have to be good.
A heck of a lot cheaper anyway.
Just ordered from Amazon.
Terry, perhaps a BOM update is needed.  The part I ordered was from the BOM.
Gery

Glenn Roberts

unread,
Jun 22, 2021, 7:16:43 PMJun 22
to <sebhc@googlegroups.com>

Here are the connectors I used

 

Amazon.com: ZYAMY 10pcs 2.54mm Male Breakable Pin Header Strip 40Pin 1x40P Single Row Straight Gold Plated Male Pin Header Strip Connector Black: Electronics

 

Measuring with my micrometer the pins with the cylindrical shoulder ring appear to be .64mm (.025”) in diameter; the longer pins are .46 mm (.018”) in diameter. The ones with the shoulder are soldered into the PC board; the longer narrower pins plug into the 40-pin socket on the CPU board.  The shouldered pin length is 4.3mm (.17”); the narrower pin length is 4.75mm (.186”).

 

I recall having trouble finding the right part here.  Norberto recommended this part

https://groups.google.com/g/sebhc/c/WZmRSwGvLNM/m/7dMmbavuAQAJ

 

I think this is more of the discussion:

https://groups.google.com/g/sebhc/c/SRP5OUD9Jec/m/bzUv0lQXFQAJ

sorry, since I had bought these parts a while ago I didn’t think to mention this.  At a glance I didn’t see any part spec’ed for this in the BOM? But perhaps we should update that?

 

Looking at the Mouser data sheet

ts-1360359.pdf (mouser.com)

 

it looks like the correct part would end in “-A” but you bought “-A-1”?, though that part appears to have different pin lengths than the one I used.

 

I believe you should be able to test your board by simply plugging in the 16C550 UART in the 40-pin receptacle on the CPU board (and possibly changing some jumpers, e.g. disabling the second com port and/or VDIP1?).  that would let you test things if you have to wait for more parts…

 

  • Glenn

 

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 4:03 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

A little advice from the experts please....

 

I started the DUART board and ran into a snag.

I am using these instructions:  H8-Z80-V3_1-DUART-Assembly instructions.pdf

Step 1, solder the V4 / DUART header.

 

I ordered TS-120-G-A-2 for the DUART 20-pin Header.

 

One end of this header will not fit the socket on the V4 OR the DUART board holes.

The photo shows the header.

The pins with the cylindrical base will fit both the V4 socket and the holes in the DUART board.

The straight pins will not fit either board.  The pins don't fit by a lot.

 

Did I order the wrong part or am I missing something more fundamental?

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, June 22, 2021 at 6:11:08 AM UTC-4 Gery Kissel wrote:

Glad you took the time to look at them! 

 

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 1:34 AM <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:

Glad that you shared such photo to avoid burning out the 12v regulators. 😊

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gery Kissel
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:49 PM
To: SEBHC <
se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

Green light!

Thanks again to Norberto and Terry for catching my TO92 case orientation screw up.  I guess I am going to have to re take the master builder test!

I got everything switched around correctly and applied power.

 

Supplies all working correctly.  Did a general sanity check for 5V around the board.

 

I hopefully will get to starting the DUART board tomorrow.

 

 

 

On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 6:20:48 AM UTC-4 Gery Kissel wrote:

terry.smedley

unread,
Jun 22, 2021, 8:05:17 PMJun 22
to se...@googlegroups.com
I am not at home so I can't check the materials list.  The DUART portion was copied from the v3 board - did this particular part ever work?

When I completed my build, I posted about the DUART connection and noted that I used the same connectors that I used in the storage controller "sandwich". I find the machined pins pretty fragile and prefer to use the rectangular pins and sockets which I find to tolerate frequent plugging and unplugging better.  YMMV.
 

As Gery says, we are all artists in our own way.  If there is factual error in the BOM, I will  certainly correct it.  I will check this when I return home later.  Gery, I can send you the pins that Glenn referred to (I purchased them but elected not to use that connection method) if you will PM me your address.

Terry




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

Terry Smedley

unread,
Jun 23, 2021, 11:58:30 AMJun 23
to SEBHC
If you're considering building the new H8 Front Panel, Amazon has the ZYAMY female socket headers that will work nicely for the LEDs, and also mate with the male pin headers that Glenn referenced.

ZYAMY 10pcs 2.54mm 40Pin Round Female Socket Pin Header Strip 1x40P Single Row Straight Female/Male Socket/Pin Header Strip Connector Black
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0778TFL39

Terry

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 25, 2021, 3:18:15 PMJun 25
to SEBHC
I am finishing up the DUART board.  Before I make a mistake, what is the correct orientation of the "flatty" side of D1 LED?
I am guessing to the right.

Terry Smedley

unread,
Jun 25, 2021, 3:25:27 PMJun 25
to SEBHC
Flatty to the right is ..... right.

Terry

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 25, 2021, 4:27:16 PMJun 25
to SEBHC
Thanks Terry.

Session 11 is a wrap.  DUART board is done!
Will try to get the ICs installed and other miscellaneous items done tomorrow or Sunday.

A couple of DUART related BOM observations:
Need to update the given part number for the DUART 20 pin header.  The part link Glenn provided works.
Correction to U1, U2 socket call out.  U1 is 16 pin, U2 is 14 pin.

What is the jumper on the DUART board for?  I note that the images folks have provided have the jumper on.
Perhaps a side note in the jumper guide?

Hopefully my next photo will be of my H8 running these cards!

Gery

Session 11 DUART small.jpgSession 11 V4_DUART small.jpg

Terry Smedley

unread,
Jun 25, 2021, 5:16:07 PMJun 25
to SEBHC
Gery:

JP1 on the DUART connects the baud rate clock oscillator on the mainboard with the 16C550s on the DUART board.  The DUART board design allowed for a local baud rate clock at X1.  With JP1 in place, the clock comes from the mainboard and the DUART oscillator pieces are unused.

Terry

The schematic for the DUART + USB board can be a little hard to locate:

Glenn Roberts

unread,
Jun 25, 2021, 9:17:12 PMJun 25
to se...@googlegroups.com

The flat side is the cathode or negative terminal. The lead on the positive (anode) side is usually longer so put the longer lead into the hole with the “+” sign.

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 25, 2021, 10:10:39 PMJun 25
to se...@googlegroups.com
My board does not have polarity marks or flatty side graphic. I assumed that the square pad was positive but just wanted to make sure.
Thanks. 


norberto...@koyado.com

unread,
Jun 25, 2021, 11:20:10 PMJun 25
to se...@googlegroups.com

Always the Square hole is pin 1. My bad and I’m sorry that I didn’t use the correct LED symbol.

 

 

Thanks,

image001.png

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 26, 2021, 6:55:35 PMJun 26
to SEBHC
Session 12 done.  Have to say the most difficult session out of them all up until now.
Got the jumpers on and the DIP switches set.  Thanks Terry for checking my settings for me last week.

I am way out of practice installing ICs.  "Back in the day" which in this case is late 80's, I had a side job upping memory cards for folks. A great side gig in college at a time everyone wanted their blazing 386s maxed out.  I would put 100-200 memory chips a day and never bend a pin.

Which for the most part is how things went but so far I have installed 2 of the 20 pin chips and bent pins on both.  What a pain.
Anyway enough of that for the day.
Hope not to bend anymore tomorrow and hopefully finish.

Session 12.jpg

Douglas Miller

unread,
Jun 26, 2021, 7:08:31 PMJun 26
to se...@googlegroups.com

Maybe this is common practice, but I got in the habit of "pre-forming" pins before inserting the ICs. From the factory, the angle of the pins is far too wide for sockets, so I'd hold the IC by the ends against a hard, flat surface and then bend slightly, flip over and do the other side. Takes a bit of practice to get the right amount of bend, but makes the insertion go much easier.

Gery Kissel

unread,
Jun 26, 2021, 7:35:54 PMJun 26
to se...@googlegroups.com
Hello Doug. For sure you have to rock and roll the ICs.
I remember having just the right touch. 
I'll probably get my mojo back when I am nearly finished!


Glenn Roberts

unread,
Jun 26, 2021, 10:01:57 PMJun 26
to se...@googlegroups.com

Yes that’s the trick!  My understanding is the angle on the pins is to accommodate automated insertion equipment but I’ve never understood why that is…

 

 

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Douglas Miller
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2021 7:08 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure

 

Maybe this is common practice, but I got in the habit of "pre-forming" pins before inserting the ICs. From the factory, the angle of the pins is far too wide for sockets, so I'd hold the IC by the ends against a hard, flat surface and then bend slightly, flip over and do the other side. Takes a bit of practice to get the right amount of bend, but makes the insertion go much easier.

On 6/26/21 5:55 PM, Gery Kissel wrote:

Session 12 done.  Have to say the most difficult session out of them all up until now.

Got the jumpers on and the DIP switches set.  Thanks Terry for checking my settings for me last week.

 

I am way out of practice installing ICs.  "Back in the day" which in this case is late 80's, I had a side job upping memory cards for folks. A great side gig in college at a time everyone wanted their blazing 386s maxed out.  I would put 100-200 memory chips a day and never bend a pin.

 

Which for the most part is how things went but so far I have installed 2 of the 20 pin chips and bent pins on both.  What a pain.

Anyway enough of that for the day.

Hope not to bend anymore tomorrow and hopefully finish.

 

Dave McGuire

unread,
Jun 26, 2021, 10:05:13 PMJun 26
to se...@googlegroups.com

The as-shipped "spread" of the pins provides spring force to hold the
IC in the insertion fixture as it moves over the board toward its
destination position. Nowadays we use vacuum fixtures for stuff like
that, but it was a good approach that worked well.

-Dave

On 6/26/21 10:01 PM, Glenn Roberts wrote:
> Yes that’s the trick!  My understanding is the angle on the pins is to
> accommodate automated insertion equipment but I’ve never understood why
> that is…
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of
> *Douglas Miller
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 26, 2021 7:08 PM
> *To:* se...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure
>
>  
>
> Maybe this is common practice, but I got in the habit of "pre-forming"
> pins before inserting the ICs. From the factory, the angle of the pins
> is far too wide for sockets, so I'd hold the IC by the ends against a
> hard, flat surface and then bend slightly, flip over and do the other
> side. Takes a bit of practice to get the right amount of bend, but makes
> the insertion go much easier.
>
> On 6/26/21 5:55 PM, Gery Kissel wrote:
>
> Session 12 done.  Have to say the most difficult session out of them
> all up until now.
>
> Got the jumpers on and the DIP switches set.  Thanks Terry for
> checking my settings for me last week.
>
>  
>
> I am way out of practice installing ICs.  "Back in the day" which in
> this case is late 80's, I had a side job upping memory cards for
> folks. A great side gig in college at a time everyone wanted their
> blazing 386s maxed out.  I would put 100-200 memory chips a day and
> never bend a pin.
>
>  
>
> Which for the most part is how things went but so far I have
> installed 2 of the 20 pin chips and bent pins on both.  What a pain.
>
> Anyway enough of that for the day.
>
> Hope not to bend anymore tomorrow and hopefully finish.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 11:20:10 PM UTC-4 Norby wrote:
>
> Always the Square hole is pin 1. My bad and I’m sorry that I
> didn’t use the correct LED symbol.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Norberto
>
>  
>
> *From:* se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> *On
> Behalf Of *Gery Kissel
> *Sent:* Friday, June 25, 2021 7:10 PM
> *To:* se...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure
>
>  
>
> My board does not have polarity marks or flatty side graphic. I
> assumed that the square pad was positive but just wanted to make
> sure.
>
> Thanks. 
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 9:17 PM Glenn Roberts
> <glenn.f...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The flat side is the cathode or negative terminal. The lead
> on the positive (anode) side is usually longer so put the
> longer lead into the hole with the “+” sign.
>
>  
>
> *From:* se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> *On
> Behalf Of *Terry Smedley
> *Sent:* Friday, June 25, 2021 3:25 PM
> *To:* SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [sebhc] Gery's V4 Build Adventure
>
>  
>
> Flatty to the right is ..... right.
>
>  
>
> Terry
>
>  
>
> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 12:18:15 PM UTC-7
> gkisselsp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I am finishing up the DUART board.  Before I make a
> mistake, what is the correct orientation of the "flatty"
> side of D1 LED?
>
> I am guessing to the right.
>
>  
>
> On Wednesday, June 23, 2021 at 11:58:30 AM UTC-4 Terry
> Smedley wrote:
>
> If you're considering building the new H8 Front
> Panel, Amazon has the ZYAMY female socket headers
> that will work nicely for the LEDs, and also mate
> with the male pin headers that Glenn referenced.
>
>  
>
> ZYAMY 10pcs 2.54mm 40Pin Round Female Socket Pin
> Header Strip 1x40P Single Row Straight Female/Male
> Socket/Pin Header Strip Connector Black
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0778TFL39
> <