Dumb Question on 5.25" Drives
Daveyk021
Mark Garlanger
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norberto.collado koyado.com
Just rework the 5.25” HS floppies drive to operate at 300 rpm…
Let HD 5,25" FDDs operate at 300 rpm instead of 360 rpm
Norby
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Joseph Travis
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glenn.f...@gmail.com
Great responses from Mark, Norberto, and Joe. here’s my two cents:
Think about what your end goal is. If you just want to be able to say it’s working and do the occasional demonstration, you’ll probably be OK using floppy disks. The VSG should work with more modern drives (agree with joe – stick to newer ½ height 48TPI models and with Mark – avoid HD ones). Though the old 5.25” DS/DD floppies seem “new” compared to the original hard-sectored ones of the late 70s, they’re still “old” and you’ll likely find yourself with issues from time to time, especially if you want to use the system on any regular basis.
Other options to consider:
To keep things “original” you should still be able to use the “H17” style drive in the machine. I have had a very high rate of success in restoring these drives. Most simply need a little cleaning and lubrication. I have some pictures on the process but have not yet written anything up.
But then you’ll need hard-sectored media. We have recently had good luck with punching extra holes in soft-sectored disks using a 3-D printed template and 2.5mm punches from amazon. We already have procedures for downloading disk images and writing them to disks, thereby recreating any of about 500 disk images stored in the SEBHC library. Here you’ll still have the issue of using old media but there is satisfaction to be had from restoring the machine to operating condition.
If you plan on using the machine on any regular basis, and you have an ability to source parts and build boards, consider upgrading the disk controller board to a Z-37 soft-sectored controller. Norberto developed a clone of this board (https://koyado.com/Heathkit/H89-Z37.html) and basic PCBs are available for $7 plus shipping from Todd Goodman. Once you have a soft-sectored controller you can switch to a GoTek drive emulator for essentially 100% error free operation. With the GoTek you can load up many images on a flash drive and mount and unmount them at will.
We can help you with any of these options…
- Glenn
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dave...@gmail.com
“When using a VSG with the H89, it is best to use 40 track (48TPI) half height drives. “
Understood. I hope I can find those.
Dave
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dave...@gmail.com
Thank you. I was ordering a CF PCB from Todd and just sent more money to him for the Soft Sector Controller card. I like the idea if the GoTek add-on.
But, if I still with the hard sector drive that is in the H89, do you have a link to the STL’s to print the jig for punching the sector holes?
I am not sure what I am going to do yet. I have all the parts ordered for the CF PCB, but I do want it to be floppy capable too. I remembered that I used to have the external floppy case for the H89. It was mainly a big heavy non-linear PS and cables, but it looked cool. I do not remember what floppy drives I had in it. I swear at one point it had at least one ½ height drive in it. Too bad, I didn’t keep that case.
How are you writing and image to hard sectored floppies? A Windows 98 system with a 5.25” drive and imaging software? I know that works with 3.5” USB drives on my Windows 11 computer. I have made DOS 3.0 and 6.22 disks for my 5160. But I do not know of any 5.25” USB drives – lol. A grease Weasel and a 5.25” drive? Can that be a “modern” 5.25” HD drive that makes those images?
I have so much to learn and re-learn and never enough hours in a day – heh heh heh.
Dave
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glenn.f...@gmail.com
Good plan. You can eventually have all 3 simultaneously (H37/soft-sectored, CF board, and H17/hard-sectored)
The new 3-D printed punch guide is still being tweaked and really requires a little bit of documentation to cover how best to use it. I’ll take on writing this up and posting the STL files for others to print. That’s good and bad because it means splicing that into my schedule, which is typically a few hours a day on this hobby. Stay tuned… I do encourage you to get the drive working.
Since you have the parts for the CF board I suggest starting there. Once you have that you’ll have a very robust and reliable set of capabilities. SEBHC members here (or on the Discord SEBHC server) can help you. Then you can try your hand at punching disks for the H17 drive, and eventually add the soft-sectored controller and GoTek (or 3.5” drive, or both)
Any pc or windows system will generally not be able to write to the old hard-sectored disks. Also, 5.25” HD drives won’t work without modification as they spin at the wrong speed.
See my REMarks article for how to make hard-sectored disk images from scratch using just your H89 and any PC:
dave...@gmail.com
I think Alps 5.25" 360K Floppy Drive DFC222B01A IBM should work. They are DS, 40 Tracks, 48TPI, and 300 RPM, half height floppy drives.
I have all the parts coming in to build a Z-37 soft sectored controller. The mother board connectors were trickly, but thanks to the BOM on the Z-37 board, Digikey has them! I am surprised. The correct ones will work better than the ones I ordered yesterday for the CF-PAR-Serial board I will also be building.
Now to learn how to image floppies for it.
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glenn.f...@gmail.com
I personally like the Samtec edge connectors (I presume that’s what you’re referring to). They make a very good connection to the buss headers. Glad you were able to source the WDC controller chip.. getting scarce.
Imaging floppies for the ’37 is best done with a gotek drive. You can use an old PC running Dave Dunfield’s software I believe to use actual soft sectored disks. Or use Applesauce or Greaseweazel… The REMarks article is only for imaging hard-sectored disks.
- Glenn