DBUG for HDOS3?

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Joe Travis N6YPC

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Jan 17, 2022, 11:15:40 AMJan 17
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I downloaded and created the 8 HDOS3 disks and can't find DBUG!  is there a version that runs on HDOS3?  Thanks again!

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc

Kenneth L. Owen tx836519

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Jan 17, 2022, 4:06:06 PMJan 17
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Hi Joe,

 

I had not noticed that there was no debug.abs!  But, HDOS 3 will run HDOS 2.0 applications.  So the 2.0 debug will probably work.

 

  • ken

 

 

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Joseph Travis

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Jan 17, 2022, 6:22:54 PMJan 17
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Hi Ken,

Thanks for your reply.  Unfortunately DBUG, ASM, XREF, BASIC and other HDOS 2.0 programs do not run under HDOS3.  When you attempt to run them, you will get an error message "?02 Wrong Version of HDOS."

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc



Mark Garlanger

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Jan 17, 2022, 6:58:30 PMJan 17
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Hey Joe,

   If you can't find DBUG on any of the disks, I wonder if it is a built-in command. Based on the manual(see the attached photo)s, it doesn't talk about making sure the program is copied to your working disk, but they do explicitly talk about that in the section for the assembler. Maybe 3.0 made it a built-in command.

Mark



IMG_7583.jpg
IMG_7584.jpg

Joseph Travis

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Jan 17, 2022, 7:07:02 PMJan 17
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Hi Mark,

Thank you for your reply.  I had seen that documentation as well.  Unfortunately no, it isn't a built-in command and I wouldn't expect it to be as it is nearly 4K in size.  I'm surprised no one has noticed it missing until now!

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc


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glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Jan 17, 2022, 8:46:18 PMJan 17
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I see RDT.ABS on my HDOS 3 system. This is the Self-Relocating Debugging Tool from Pat Swayne, and is an improved successor to DBUG.

 

As I understand the evolution of HDOS 3 the authors tried to adopt the best components from HUG and elsewhere to improve the HDOS experience.  RDT has a lot to offer over DBUG.  For one thing you don’t have to re-ORG your code to debug it as the debugging tool automatically moves itself out of the way into high memory.  I’m not an RDT expert and can’t offer a comparison but it is my guess that RDT was the standard HDOS 3 debugging tool

 

RDT was originally released (including source) on HUG disk 885-1092, which is in Les’ HUG archives.  The manual was provided in hard copy only (in the zip-lock baggie along with the floppy).  I have a paper copy (I was unable to find a scan of this in any of our archives…  Anyone have it posted somewhere?)

 

RDT was introduced in REMark issue 14 (p. 16), and a short article on its use appeared next month (Issue 15, p. 12) and a review is in issue 19, p. 11

 

I can scan my copy of the doc file (22 pages) if in fact we don’t already have it somewhere… (hmm. I didn’t check but perhaps it’s in the HDOS 3 documentation?)

 

  • Glenn

glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Jan 17, 2022, 9:08:39 PMJan 17
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Belatedly read the HDOS 3 manual and discovered (as Joe no doubt already knew) that it does indeed reference DBUG. A whole chapter on it (chapter 9).  And I am unable to find DBUG.??? On any of the HDOS3 distribution disks that we have. So the mystery continues.

 

We do have the source for DBUG.ASM so it could be assembled for HDOS3…

Joseph Travis

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Jan 17, 2022, 10:13:51 PMJan 17
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Thanks for the info Glenn.  I just had a look at all 8 of the HDOS3 disks and couldn't find RDT.* on any of them!  I created these disks from the images on sebhc.org using H8DUtil a couple months ago... I don't know.

I do remember (now) about the re-org issue using DBUG... that was a painful process at times.  I did see in the HDOS3 documentation TDU.TAS which is some sort of Terminal Debug Utility.  I've tried to start it but didn't get too far.

What I'm really looking to do is do some digging (disassembly) in some programs to make minor mods such as changing I/O ports or whatever.  The upgrade from HDOS 2.0 to 3.0 reminds me of all the stuff that wouldn't work when we upgraded from HDOS 1.6 to 2.0.  Same kinda grief 40 years later!

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc


glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Jan 18, 2022, 8:37:26 AMJan 18
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Quite correct. I should have done more homework before sending that note.  My Z67 HDOS3 image was (I believe) constructed by Ken Owen so Ken I guess I have you to thank for including RDT there!

 

I’ve attached RDT (save it and rename it to RDT.ABS – I presume you have a way to transfer it to the H8?) and the documentation I have. This is a scan of a stained, crooked photocopy but may be all we have (?)…  RDT has some nice features and should help you with your task joe!

RDTdotABS.DAT
885-1092 RDT Debugger.pdf

Kenneth L. Owen tx836519

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Jan 18, 2022, 10:11:07 AMJan 18
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Hi Joseph,

 

I have used RDT for debugging HDOS programs and (once you get familiar with it) find it quite powerful!  My first experience was when I was trying to figure out why the program FIND.ABS (part of the DiskCat utility) would run and find the data I wanted, but would trash the HDOS system when used requiring a reboot after every use.  Using RDT, I discovered that when started, the program modified a couple of RST vectors, that HDOS was using, to perform a new purpose and failed to restore the vectors to entry state on exit.  I documented the problem and fix:

 

*       USING RDT LOAD THE ASSEMBLED VERSION OF THIS FILE.

*       MOVE IT UP 1K AND THEN LOAD CHECK.ABS.  MOVE THIS

*       CODE BACK DOWN 1K TO APPEND AT 061367.  MODIFY THE

*             EXIT POINTS AT 2347H AND 237CH TO JUMP TO RSTORE. 

*             MODIFY THE WORK AREA POINTER AT 23ACH TO POINT PAST

*             THE NEW END OF PROGRAM.  SAVE THE REVISED FILE AS

*       CHECK,2280,3227,31F7.  THE LAST ADDRESS IS THE NEW

*       PROGRAM ENTRY POINT AND THE PROGRAM LENGTH BYTE

*       IS SET BY THIS EXIT.

*

.EXIT   EQU     0

        ORG     061367A         ; ORG AT CURRENT END OF PROG

SAVENV  LXI     D,040053A       ; POINT TO RST 5

        LXI     H,SAVEC         ; SAVE LOCATION

        LXI     B,6             ; 6 BYTES - RST 5 & RST 6

LOOP1   LDAX    D               ; A IS NEXT BYTE

        MOV     M,A             ; SAVE IT

        INX     H               ; BUMP UP

        INX     D               ; BUMP UP

        DCR     C               ; DEC COUNT

        JNZ     LOOP1           ; DONE?

        JMP     042200          ; JUMP TO 2ND INSTRUCTION

RSTORE  LXI     D,SAVEC         ; POINT TO STORE

        LXI     H,040053A       ; POINT TO RST 5

        LXI     B,6             ; 6 BYTES TO RST 5 & RST 6

LOOP2   LDAX    D               ; LOAD NEXT

        MOV     M,A             ; RESTORE IT

        INX     H               ; BUMP UP

        INX     D               ; BUMP UP

        DCR     C               ; DEC COUNT

        JNZ     LOOP2           ; DONE?

        XRA     A               ; YES, SO EXIT

        SCALL   .CLRCO

        SCALL   .EXIT

SAVEC   DB      0

        DB      0

        DB      0

        DB      0

        DB      0

        DB      0

        END     SAVENV

 

I also modified several HDOS 2.0 programs (such as DEBUG) that checked the system version for 2.0 and would not run on HDOS 3.02.  I wanted to use them on HDOS 3.02, so I modified the version check to accept the 3.02 version.

 

  • ken

 

 

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Kenneth L. Owen tx836519

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Jan 18, 2022, 10:21:23 AMJan 18
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Hi Joseph,

 

In my previous note I said I was working on FIND.ABS when the fix I attached was for CHECK.ABS (a file checksum generator).  Both of these programs had the same defect of not restoring the vectors they changed back to entry state on exit.

 

  • ken

 

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Alex - K3CIM

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Jan 18, 2022, 11:45:13 AMJan 18
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a year or so ago i asked about running the H17test.abs on hdos 3.0
i was advised that you  can go into "ddt" the test17.abs and change the instruction looking for 2.0 to 3.0.
i would think the other programs would act the same.
just a thought
alex
K3Cim

Joseph Travis

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Jan 18, 2022, 4:07:07 PMJan 18
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Thank you ALL very much!

I downloaded the files Glenn sent and hopefully can get RDT.ABS transferred to the H8 via MAPLE.  Thank you Ken for the info!

In response to Alex:  I'm not sure that TEST17 will run under HDOS3 due to a variety of changes which include Zero Org.  It would be interesting to find out though.

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc

glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Jan 18, 2022, 4:24:52 PMJan 18
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Keep us posted joe. For some reason I’ve never switched to HDOS3 as mainstream.  When I built “big blue” I decided to make it primarily my CP/M3 and HDOS3-based environment and I’ve been slowly making more use of it. It was an impressive achievement of the community to honcho that release! It certainly offers some nice enhancements. Perhaps we’ll see more discussion here on HDOS3. …

 

-= glenn

Joseph Travis

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Jan 18, 2022, 11:58:18 PMJan 18
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I can't explain why, I decided that when I got this H8 up and running that HDOS3 would be the primary OS. Back in the day, HDOS was preferred by the guys (many Hams) who wanted to interface anything and everything to their computer.  CP/M arrived a little later on the H8 / H89 scene along with all the cool software of the time.

For the same unknown reason, I also decided that I would try to spend some time (re)learning BASIC.  I became frustrated with BASIC early on because it was so slow, didn't do everything I wanted it to do and was a memory hog. I learned assembly language programming with the guidance of a few great mentors and later crossed over to the dark side professionally (became a software engineer).  I retired from that almost 9 years ago.

Back to the problem at hand, I thought (wrong) that I could transfer RDT via MAPLE.  It appears that MAPLE doesn't have / use any method of file transfer protocol.  I believe someone mentioned RDT is available on one of the HUG Library disks so, I'll have a look to see if I can recreate it with H8DUtil.

Thanks again,
Joe Travis n6ypc


glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Jan 19, 2022, 7:37:51 AMJan 19
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Well MAPLE can do XMODEM so you should be able to transfer. Ken Owen has written up a lot on this, see e.g.

 

http://koyado.com/Z67_IDE/Z67-IDE_files/MAPLE_CPM.pdf

 

if you don’t have the MAPLE instructions I can scan and share.  This would be worth writing up a step-by-step tutorial on.  on the PC side I would recommend TeraTerm

 

an alternate way to move the file over would be the USB/VDIP interface if you’ve got that… 😊

 

But if you’ve got H8DUtil working you can just grab RDT from HUG disk 885-1092.  Its in the HUG library on Les’ site

https://sebhc.github.io/sebhc/software/HDOS/HUGLibrary.zip

 

and Mark Garlanger has a direct link to the H8D file here:

https://heathkit.garlanger.com/software/library/HUG/disks/885-1092_Relocating_Debugger.h8d

Joseph Travis

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Jan 19, 2022, 11:23:56 AMJan 19
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Success!  Thanks Glenn!  I forgot about the goofy way MAPLE implemented XMODEM, calling it WARDS!  Its also a bit weird to see the data displayed on the terminal screen as the transfer takes place.  It seems to me that I used to use REACH back in the day but, I wasn't terribly fond of it either.  Nevertheless, I've got RDT now and I'm done whining about it.   Thanks again!

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc


Glenn Roberts

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Jan 20, 2022, 1:57:14 PMJan 20
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p.s. finally noticed that there’s a very clean copy of the RDT manual on Les’ site..:

 

https://sebhc.github.io/sebhc/documentation/supplemental/RDT_Instuction_Manual.pdf

 

looks like it was OCR’ed – maybe thanks to Ken?

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