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Great! Thank you Norberto.
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Thank you Norberto. Seasons Greetings to all, and may you be fortunate enough to arise to a snow-covered landscape on Christmas Day :-}.
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of norberto.collado koyado.com
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2021 1:44 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
I have been working on this board schematics as they were not linked to the board layout and did not want to make a layout mistake by adding some improvements. I just finalized it and will order boards after X-mas is over.
Happy Holidays!
Norberto
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of norberto.collado koyado.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 7:40 PM
To: SEBHC List <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Thanks and snow is welcome!
😊
From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of <pbi...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, December 23, 2021 at 11:17 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
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So the space for the Sparkfun FT245 breakout board could be eliminated if you like. The board was retired some time ago
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/7841
may not be worth the effort though. Your call.
Longer version:
At the time these boards (this one and the companion H8 board) were designed the group was experimenting with two approaches to USB connectivity. The 24-pin socket to the right holds an FTDI VDIP1 which can do USB host protocol, allowing for flash drives, printers and other devices to connect. In this mode the H8/H89 is the USB “host” with the heavy lifting of the USB protocols all built into the processor on the VDIP1. I wrote some simple utilities to copy files to/from the flash drive (I’m currently baselining/documenting that code – more soon on that!. Earlier versions of my code are on Norberto’s site http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H-8_USB.html)
The FT245 breakout board sported an FT245RL chip which implements the “slave” side of the USB protocol. In this mode the H8/H89 must be plugged into a host computer. The host sees the H8/89 essentially the same way it would a disk drive or flash drive. All of the file transfer functionality is implemented in software on the PC side. Dan Emrick and Chris Elmquist did some innovative work with this: http://danemricksite.net/HeathkitProjects.php#USB/H8D
The Sparkfun breakout board is no longer available but the VDIP1 is still available (Mouser, Digikey…). FTDI has also come out with a newer version of the VDIP based on their VNC2 chip series, but we’ve seen little compelling reason to change our designs.
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of norberto.collado koyado.com
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2021 1:44 AM
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/BN7PR01MB3844B9B33283B2D991A90580F77F9%40BN7PR01MB3844.prod.exchangelabs.com.
I thought the FT245R presents a "tty device" to the host PC. It is strictly serial communications, as far as I can tell. What you do with that serial communications is another matter, but the PC sees a COM/TTY device, not storage.
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You can still buy such board in Florida from:
https://www.kr4.us/breakout-board-for-ft245rl-usb-to-fifo.html
Norberto
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/41f34dd2-0d3c-0d08-33b9-becf6ce8b21f%40gmail.com.
I was planning to add support for the FT245R as another serial
port, so that we don't lose the "modem" port at 330Q when the
VDIP1 is installed. But, it seems we don't consistently have an
FT245R with every VDIP1 (i.e. new Z80 CPU boards only have VDIP1)
so it didn't make as much sense to do that. I'm not suggesting any
changes about that, but it was a use I considered, briefly. The
FT245R looks nothing like an INS8250, but it is pretty simple and
so could be put into drivers as a one-off. Given the INS8250 has a
"scratch pad" register, one could possibly even auto-detect
whether 330Q is an INS8250 or FT245R.
But if the part is obsolete, it may make even less sense. Of
course, just because SparkFun no longer makes it doesn't mean FTDI
no longer makes it.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/47DFE1F2-5B8D-4A90-89ED-CD782CD3B8AD%40koyado.com.
For the H8, should we add the FT245R on a tiny board? Or should I added it to the single H17 controller which is almost done? The single H17 controller has the VDIP1 already installed.
Thanks,
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/c48cc882-c48a-b20d-96ad-ed122c979ee9%40gmail.com.
I just found out that this part is out of stock. So, it is not available. I think it makes sense to add a tiny board with surface mount parts if we agree that is needed.
Norberto
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/22F0E230-F3A7-4D9D-91B1-BAD5CD684EE7%40koyado.com.
Digikey has 0 in stock. Let’s put this board to rest. I will take it out from the H89-Serial-USB board unless there is objection.
Norby
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/47972A2E-F20E-40A6-82EF-E41CA237D964%40koyado.com.
Seems to be in-stock at https://www.canakit.com/breakout-board-for-ft245rl-usb-to-fifo-bob-07841.html
Alternatively, replace the current DIP-style footprint with the DIL end-connector style that’s readily available on eBay.
Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/384504988953
Also available at, e.g.,: https://pmdway.com/products/ft245-usb-to-parallel-fifo-breakout-board
My vote goes to keeping the FT245RL but with the DIL end-connector footprint. The pin-out is specified on the PCB:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/B4519360-9694-449C-9028-6792B7696A21%40koyado.com.
Example connector: https://www.taydaelectronics.com/2x10-pin-2-54mm-dounle-row-right-angle-female-pin-header.html
Sparkfun footprint = 1.5x0.92" = 38mm x 24mm
BOB footprint is 46mm x 30mm. Extend length for the right-angle DIL socket.
So it’s not a slam-dunk to adopt the replacement board from the perspective of board layout.
From: pbi...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 2:05 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Seems to be in-stock at https://www.canakit.com/breakout-board-for-ft245rl-usb-to-fifo-bob-07841.html
Alternatively, replace the current DIP-style footprint with the DIL end-connector style that’s readily available on eBay.
Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/384504988953
Also available at, e.g.,: https://pmdway.com/products/ft245-usb-to-parallel-fifo-breakout-board
My vote goes to keeping the FT245RL but with the DIL end-connector footprint. The pin-out is specified on the PCB:
-----
I ordered one from pmdway as I need to measure board on the pcb along with the VDIP1.
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Thanks Dan and Happy Holidays to all as well!
Norberto
From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dan Emrick <dsem...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 8:46 AM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Not sure if I really have a place in this discussion given that I do not have an H8. Even so, I use the FT245 capability of the H89 USB-Serial board in my H89 and my H89-SBC. Of course, I'm just a little prejudiced having worked with Chris and others on the HDOS driver early on. The PC side is a custom program that makes H8D images available (currently up to 4) for mounting via the FT245 interface just as a spinning floppy would be. I use Linux but experimented in the past with a version for MS Windows. It's written with the Qt IDE.
My two cents: I support Paul's recommendation to keep the capability even if it requires a modification to handle the different B/O board configuration (which I did use in early H89 prototypes).
Before I forget, thank you, Norberto, for all that you've done and continue to do to preserve and enhance these beloved old boxes and our enjoyment of them.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.
Dan
On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 2:45:42 AM UTC-5 Norby wrote:
I ordered one from pmdway as I need to measure board on the pcb along with the VDIP1.
Thanks,
Norberto
From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of <pbi...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 24, 2021 at 11:18 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Example connector: https://www.taydaelectronics.com/2x10-pin-2-54mm-dounle-row-right-angle-female-pin-header.html
Sparkfun footprint = 1.5x0.92" = 38mm x 24mm
BOB footprint is 46mm x 30mm. Extend length for the right-angle DIL socket.
So it’s not a slam-dunk to adopt the replacement board from the perspective of board layout.
From: pbi...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 2:05 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Seems to be in-stock at https://www.canakit.com/breakout-board-for-ft245rl-usb-to-fifo-bob-07841.html
Alternatively, replace the current DIP-style footprint with the DIL end-connector style that’s readily available on eBay.
Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/384504988953
Also available at, e.g.,: https://pmdway.com/products/ft245-usb-to-parallel-fifo-breakout-board
My vote goes to keeping the FT245RL but with the DIL end-connector footprint. The pin-out is specified on the PCB:
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2021 9:21 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Digikey has 0 in stock. Let’s put this board to rest. I will take it out from the H89-Serial-USB board unless there is objection.
Norby
From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 24, 2021 at 6:09 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
I just found out that this part is out of stock. So, it is not available. I think it makes sense to add a tiny board with surface mount parts if we agree that is needed.
-----
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Also, I’m going to move the logic around so that I can get more free real state by using the same layout as in the MMS Corvus board. See attached picture.
The USART’s on the right and the VDIP1 and RT245R on the left.
Thanks,
Norberto
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/5EF5AB0B-F94C-4DD6-B24A-BB46181EDC89%40koyado.com.
Are the cable-tie holes misaligned? Maybe add a couple more?
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I will fixed that once I get the FT245R.
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Hello Norberto,
I am interested in purchasing this H89 Serial Board when it is placed into production. As a side note, I am really impressed with your work and dedication.
Thanks,
Pat OConnor
Sent from Mail for Windows
From: norberto.collado koyado.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 8:37 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
I did receive the FT245R breakout board. It took about 11 days to get. I will play with the parts placement to figure out cable and parts best location. I'm still waiting for the 2x 10 pin connector which I forgot to order last month. It should be here within the two weeks. Once I get the 2x 10 pin female connector, I should be able to order some boards to check the layout and board operations. I do not expect any issues as it is based on previous board schematics.
I will work with Todd to fulfill the needs for those that requested such board once I get a fully operational board.
Norberto
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of norberto.collado koyado.com <norberto...@koyado.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2021 9:50 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Almost done with the board updates. I cannot finalize until I get the FT245R breakout board to verify placement along with the VDIP1 and secondary USB port.
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 5:05 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Also, I’m going to move the logic around so that I can get more free real state by using the same layout as in the MMS Corvus board. See attached picture.
The USART’s on the right and the VDIP1 and RT245R on the left.
So it’s not a slam-dunk to adopt the replacement board from the perspective of board layout.
From: pbi...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 2:05 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Seems to be in-stock at https://www.canakit.com/breakout-board-for-ft245rl-usb-to-fifo-bob-07841.html
Alternatively, replace the current DIP-style footprint with the DIL end-connector style that’s readily available on eBay.
Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/384504988953
Also available at, e.g.,: https://pmdway.com/products/ft245-usb-to-parallel-fifo-breakout-board
My vote goes to keeping the FT245RL but with the DIL end-connector footprint. The pin-out is specified on the PCB:
From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2021 9:21 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H89-USB-Serial order list.
Digikey has 0 in stock. Let’s put this board to rest. I will take it out from the H89-Serial-USB board unless there is objection.
At the time these boards (this one and the companion H8 board) were designed the group was experimenting with two approaches to USB connectivity. The 24-pin socket to the right holds an FTDI VDIP1 which can do USB host protocol, allowing for flash drives, printers and other devices to connect. In this mode the H8/H89 is the USB “host†with the heavy lifting of the USB protocols all built into the processor on the VDIP1. I wrote some simple utilities to copy files to/from the flash drive (I’m currently baselining/documenting that code – more soon on that!. Earlier versions of my code are on Norberto’s site http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H-8_USB.html)
The FT245 breakout board sported an FT245RL chip which implements the “slave†side of the USB protocol. In this mode the H8/H89 must be plugged into a host computer. The host sees the H8/89 essentially the same way it would a disk drive or flash drive. All of the file transfer functionality is implemented in software on the PC side. Dan Emrick and Chris Elmquist did some innovative work with this: http://danemricksite.net/HeathkitProjects.php#USB/H8D
The Sparkfun breakout board is no longer available but the VDIP1 is still available (Mouser, Digikey…). FTDI has also come out with a newer version of the VDIP based on their VNC2 chip series, but we’ve seen little compelling reason to change our designs.
-----
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Thanks Pat!
Did some measurements and for now it looks like this until I get the 2x10 pin female connector. Also I added the 3.68MHz osc to run the serial ports at a higher baud rate as an option.
Norberto
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/84161A8E-A9C4-4F05-BCB3-68328B79AD38%40hxcore.ol.
On Jan 11, 2022, at 2:33 AM, Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/3E249DCA-2C8D-4805-8008-0785311C176B%40koyado.com.
I did a CP/NET client for the FT245R, although I'm not sure if anyone has tried it out on a real H8/H89.
Norberto and I also kicked around an idea for a "major" expansion
to the H89, picture attached. We didn't get any further than this
drawing (based on some clearance experiments by Norberto), but it
is looking like it would work.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/0CE4D60E-E6B7-4F14-AF19-A312E226BC6A%40gmail.com.
Received today the 2x10 pin female connector and everything looked fine until I put the FT245R board on a real wire-wrap board. This board was design to be attached to the outside of the board and not on top of the board. The solder underneath the board along with the pins for the 2x10 pin male header, will force the board to lifted at an angle when inserted on a wire-wrap board. The solution will be to cut a hole underneath the board to released such pressure.
Here are some photos which described better the issue. I’m open to other ideas to fix this issue. ☹
Looks good so far! 😊
Wrong position:☹
Correct position: 😊
Solution: Cut a hole on top of the board. 😊
Thanks,
Norberto
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/3E249DCA-2C8D-4805-8008-0785311C176B%40koyado.com.
On Jan 14, 2022, at 2:53 AM, Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/3F98514F-3869-4A91-804D-D084E9E82EB4%40koyado.com.
Not to kick up any more dust on the matter, but there is this module:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/FTDI/UM245R?qs=Xb8IjHhkxj4TWAlYgWlsig%3D%3D
Which is a more conventional mount, albeit more expensive (2.5x).
As Glenn said, might be worth contacting WaveShare and see if they can supply without the header mounted. That was a nice thing about AdaFruit, at least in my experience - they ship their modules with the header separate.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/0B06F66E-244A-4A0F-AE62-7856DC4E6421%40gmail.com.
Can you first use a 2x10 straight DIL header (or two SIP headers side-by-side), and then plug the right-angle 2x10 DIL connector into that?
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/3F98514F-3869-4A91-804D-D084E9E82EB4%40koyado.com.
The FTDI board might also have a bit more longevity. I wonder if the WaveShare board will disappear after a year just like the Sparkfun one did? For that matter, will WaveShare itself be around long term? The FTDI VDIP1 board has been available for a very long time now…
I know we’ve mostly stuck to through-hole construction on our boards, but another option could be to surface mount the ft245 chip on the board… the Rev 1.1 USB board for the H8 has this option
http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H-8_USB_files/H8-USB%20CONTROLLER%20V1_0-1.pdf
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/f796ca8f-7d3f-2daa-5a28-483ae9e87659%40gmail.com.
I also noticed there is a QFN package for the chip, so we could use a socket I think. But, digiKey didn't have the chips in stock - either package.
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On Jan 14, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Douglas Miller <durga...@gmail.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/be37d444-8b70-5cd7-5422-b4c9c8c78e34%40gmail.com.