Re: Extended Configuration or 64K RAM ORG0 Boards

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Norberto Collado

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Nov 27, 2021, 10:55:49 PM11/27/21
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I have original Les’ Extended board that I bought from him fully assembled back them. Is this what you need, and I can ship it to you at no costs. You will need to add a bumper feet on side two to prevent the board from touching the metal.

 

What is your H8 configuration to understand what you are trying to do?

 

If you do have Les’ Z80 V1.8 bare board (not fully assembled), put it in the trash can as lot’s of reworks will be needed to get it working.

 

A picture containing text, electronics, circuit

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Also I have a Les’ Z80 Rev 2.6 that is fully functional, but I took most of the IC’s to enable the Z80 V4 CPU board. It includes the ROM’s, + the Pololu regulators + 2MHz osc + a few IC’s.. You can have it for $20.00 + shipping. Here is a picture:

 

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Description automatically generated

 

Thanks,

Norberto

 

From: Les Bird <lesb...@gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 7:43 AM
To: <pbi...@gmail.com>
Cc: Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com>
Subject: Re: Extended Configuration or 64K RAM ORG0 Boards

 

Paul,

 

Yes Norberto's card is a much better option if he has any available. You'll need to burn a new ROM and make some mods to the 8080 board but I think Norby has that documented somewhere. The ROM will be on a 2716 so the 8080 board will have to be modded slightly to support a 4K ROM.

 

Les

 

 

On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 6:08 AM <pbi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Les:  If Norberto has a spare 64K RAM ORG0 Board (http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8_8080A_64K_RAm_Brd.html) “around” that would do as well or better, although I’m uncertain whether that will fit into slot 10 (with some attached “Fish Paper” insulation).  The referenced page-bottom does claim that 8 boards are available, but I suspect that count is no longer current!

 

From: pbi...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 3:52 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] Re: H8-Z80-64 (Rev 1.8, Les Bird, 2009)

 

Thank you Les.  Your investment in time won’t go unappreciated :->.

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Les Bird
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2021 1:37 PM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: H8-Z80-64 (Rev 1.8, Les Bird, 2009)

 

Paul,

 

I will look for Extended Configuration PCBs. Will let you know if I find any. I think I might have some buried away in a box somewhere.

 

Les

 

On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 10:01:18 AM UTC-5 Paul Birkel wrote:

Thank you Les; that explains much :->.  Do you perhaps have an unemployed PCB for your rendition of the Extended Configuration board?

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Les Bird
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2021 9:25 AM
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [sebhc] Re: H8-Z80-64 (Rev 1.8, Les Bird, 2009)

 

Paul,

 

No schematic exists for the 1.8 or the 2.x boards. They were wired up in KiCad and printed and debugged on the fly. However, most of it is based on existing Heathkit schematics. For example the interfacing circuitry was taken from the 8080 CPU board schematic. On the 2.x boards the area with the HA-8-8 Extended Configuration board was wired up exactly from the original schematic.

 

And yes the Rev 2 GIDE boards replace the 1.8 boards and by Rev 2 I mean 2.x (2.0, 2.1, 2.2, etc). Norberto has taken the design to a whole new level with the V3 and V4 CPU boards which are now considered the current design.

 

Les

 

On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 7:30:27 AM UTC-5 Paul Birkel wrote:

Does anyone have a schematic for this board?  It’s not in the documentation at: https://sebhc.github.io/sebhc/pcbs/pcbs.html

 

(I have the board, it’s populated, I’d like to try to use it.  But I’d like to know more than the H8-Z80-64_doc.pdf specifies :->.)

 

Also, at that site this board is described as “This PCB has been replaced by the Rev 2 board”, however I don’t see any information about the follow-on anywhere,  Maybe v1.8 remains current?  Maybe what was meant is the Rev 2.1 GIDE board (https://sebhc.github.io/sebhc/HeathkitGIDE.html) and its successors?

 

-----

paul

 

pbi...@gmail.com

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Nov 28, 2021, 2:45:39 AM11/28/21
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I’ll take it, thank you Norberto.  Fish Paper is my go-to for ensuring electrical isolation/insulation (call me ultra-conservative :-}).  Some dabs of hot glue to affix in this case.

 

What I’d principally like to do is configure a “typical” cassette-based 8080 system as would have been experienced prior to upgrading to either a Z80 or FDD.  The Extended Board would be part of that configuration.  40K total memory (what I currently have) with an 8080 would be quite “high end” for a cassette-based system BITD, IMO.

 

WRT Cassette I/O I intend to build one of these for use stand-alone:

 

https://www.sites.google.com/site/tedrossin/home/electronics/pic#h.atweos91tg81

 

However it would be useful to build an H8-5 piggyback board to non-destructively repurpose the cassette I/O UART to “fileserver” use at times, hence my query to see if anyone has a leftover Astrorat piggy-back “H8-5-1 Daughter Board” project PCB.

 

I’m told that under DOS there was an “H8T.COM” utility that would be very useful to have for binary file transfer but I’ve not yet found a copy.  Perhaps someone could point me to the correct repository.  If it’s at https://github.com/sebhc/sebhc/wiki or http://koyado.com/Heathkit/  or https://heathkit.garlanger.com/ then IMO it’s well hidden!

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 10:56 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [sebhc] Re: Extended Configuration or 64K RAM ORG0 Boards

 

I have original Les’ Extended board that I bought from him fully assembled back them. Is this what you need, and I can ship it to you at no costs. You will need to add a bumper feet on side two to prevent the board from touching the metal.

 

What is your H8 configuration to understand what you are trying to do?

 

-----

Norberto Collado

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Nov 28, 2021, 3:52:04 AM11/28/21
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A simpler H8-5 Cassette interface pcb board is possible using the original Heath schematics by just using one USART (IC123), a GAL, two 74LS540, baud rate generator and Dave Runkle H8-5 Tape RS232 Interface. Then use Realterm along with the H8 keypads to download the *.H8T files into the H8 computer. I think Glenn has tested such configuration without any issues by reworking the original H8-5 board.

 

http://www.astrorat.com/images/H8-5-1_Daughter_Board-A.pdf

 

I will send you only the Extended Configuration board at no cost.

 

Norberto

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of <pbi...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:45 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [sebhc] Re: Extended Configuration or 64K RAM ORG0 Boards

 

I’ll take it, thank you Norberto.  Fish Paper is my go-to for ensuring electrical isolation/insulation (call me ultra-conservative :-}).  Some dabs of hot glue to affix in this case.

 

What I’d principally like to do is configure a “typical” cassette-based 8080 system as would have been experienced prior to upgrading to either a Z80 or FDD.  The Extended Board would be part of that configuration.  40K total memory (what I currently have) with an 8080 would be quite “high end” for a cassette-based system BITD, IMO.

 

WRT Cassette I/O I intend to build one of these for use stand-alone:

 

https://www.sites.google.com/site/tedrossin/home/electronics/pic#h.atweos91tg81

 

However it would be useful to build an H8-5 piggyback board to non-destructively repurpose the cassette I/O UART to “fileserver” use at times, hence my query to see if anyone has a leftover Astrorat piggy-back “H8-5-1 Daughter Board” project PCB.

 

I’m told that under DOS there was an “H8T.COM” utility that would be very useful to have for binary file transfer but I’ve not yet found a copy.  Perhaps someone could point me to the correct repository.  If it’s at https://github.com/sebhc/sebhc/wiki or http://koyado.com/Heathkit/  or https://heathkit.garlanger.com/ then IMO it’s well hidden!

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 10:56 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [sebhc] Re: Extended Configuration or 64K RAM ORG0 Boards

 

I have original Les’ Extended board that I bought from him fully assembled back them. Is this what you need, and I can ship it to you at no costs. You will need to add a bumper feet on side two to prevent the board from touching the metal.

 

What is your H8 configuration to understand what you are trying to do?

 

-----

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pbi...@gmail.com

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Nov 28, 2021, 4:25:24 AM11/28/21
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So H8T.COM is lost?  Instead use a “modern” terminal emulator?  Unless one is running MS-DOS …

 

Does anyone know of a copy of H8T.COM published somewhere?

 

Norberto:  I will send contact information separately.

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado

Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:52 AM
To: se...@googlegroups.com

Glenn Roberts

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Nov 28, 2021, 7:21:02 AM11/28/21
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I don’t recall hearing about H8T.COM. Do you remember where you saw that? I would think most terminal emulators could be used to send the files. There were many for DOS. I recall using Kermit back in the day. I think that’s still available

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/

Astrorat’s instructions suggest a 10ms delay after each character which works fine for me. As I recall the ability to add delays was a common feature of these programs.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 28, 2021, at 4:25 AM, pbi...@gmail.com wrote:



Frank Madison

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Nov 28, 2021, 9:51:36 AM11/28/21
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Paul,
 
I opened my copy of H8T.COM in an hex editor and found its origin.  There is embedded ASCII containing "Dave Dunfield".  I purchased Dunfield's C Cross-Complier for the 8080 years ago.  Perhaps the H8T utility was part of the package.  Today is can be found at: http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/img/ under Transfer Utilities.
 
Here is part of the readme file:
 
"H8T.COM - H8 Translate/Transfer utility
  Allows you to easily and instantly translate files between any of the
  following types, and also to upload/download files of these types to/from
  a real H8 computer without having to translate them first:
   .H8T - H8 Tape image
   .HEX - Intel/Motorola ASCII/HEX download format (used by my dev tools)
   .BIN - Raw binary image
  For more information, type H8T (with no operands)."
 
I hope this helps.
 
 
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 2:25 AM
From: pbi...@gmail.com

Joseph Travis

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Nov 28, 2021, 10:14:34 AM11/28/21
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I'm curious how an Extended Configuration Board would be useful in a cassette based system?  The Extended Configuration board aka Zero Org board is used to remap RAM into ROM space for CP/M or HDOS 3.  Am I missing something?

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc


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Glenn Roberts

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Nov 28, 2021, 8:25:17 PM11/28/21
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I had the same reaction.  Zero org would not be part of a “typical” 8080 cassette-based system.  It came only later when Heath wanted to support Digital Research CP/M.  Near as I can tell from the catalogs this was early 1981.

 

From: <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Joseph Travis <jtravi...@gmail.com>


Reply-To: <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 10:14 AM
To: <se...@googlegroups.com>

Glenn Roberts

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Nov 28, 2021, 8:27:19 PM11/28/21
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Frank, this is great. Thanks. Dunfield’s stuff is classic.

 

Paul let us know if you get this working. Maybe do a writeup!

Dave McGuire

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Nov 28, 2021, 8:38:22 PM11/28/21
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Well it also drives the diskette side select line, doesn't it?

-Dave

On 11/28/21 8:25 PM, Glenn Roberts wrote:
> I had the same reaction.  Zero org would not be part of a “typical” 8080
> cassette-based system.  It came only later when Heath wanted to support
> Digital Research CP/M.  Near as I can tell from the catalogs this was
> early 1981.
>
> *From: *<se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Joseph Travis
> <jtravi...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *<se...@googlegroups.com>
> *Date: *Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 10:14 AM
> *To: *<se...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [sebhc] Re: Extended Configuration or 64K RAM ORG0 Boards
>
> I'm curious how an Extended Configuration Board would be useful in a
> cassette based system?  The Extended Configuration board aka Zero Org
> board is used to remap RAM into ROM space for CP/M or HDOS 3.  Am I
> missing something?
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Travis n6ypc
>
> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 2:45 AM <pbi...@gmail.com
> <mailto:pbi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I’ll take it, thank you Norberto.  Fish Paper is my go-to for
> ensuring electrical isolation/insulation (call me ultra-conservative
> :-}).  Some dabs of hot glue to affix in this case.
>
> What I’d principally like to do is configure a “typical”
> cassette-based 8080 system as would have been experienced _prior_ to
> upgrading to either a Z80 or FDD.  The Extended Board would be part
> of that configuration.  40K total memory (what I currently have)
> with an 8080 would be quite “high end” for a cassette-based system
> BITD, IMO.
>
> WRT Cassette I/O I intend to build one of these for use stand-alone:
>
> https://www.sites.google.com/site/tedrossin/home/electronics/pic#h.atweos91tg81
> <https://www.sites.google.com/site/tedrossin/home/electronics/pic#h.atweos91tg81>
>
>
> However it would be useful to build an H8-5 piggyback board to
> non-destructively repurpose the cassette I/O UART to “fileserver”
> use at times, hence my query to see if anyone has a leftover
> Astrorat piggy-back “H8-5-1 Daughter Board” project PCB.
>
> I’m told that under DOS there was an “H8T.COM <http://H8T.COM>”
> utility that would be very useful to have for binary file transfer
> but I’ve not yet found a copy.  Perhaps someone could point me to
> the correct repository.  If it’s at
> https://github.com/sebhc/sebhc/wiki
> <https://github.com/sebhc/sebhc/wiki> or http://koyado.com/Heathkit/
> <http://koyado.com/Heathkit/Welcome.html>  or
> https://heathkit.garlanger.com/ <https://heathkit.garlanger.com/>
> then IMO it’s well hidden!
>
> *From:* se...@googlegroups.com <mailto:se...@googlegroups.com>
> <se...@googlegroups.com <mailto:se...@googlegroups.com>> *On Behalf
> Of *Norberto Collado
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 27, 2021 10:56 PM
> *To:* se...@googlegroups.com <mailto:se...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* [sebhc] Re: Extended Configuration or 64K RAM ORG0 Boards
>
> I have original Les’ Extended board that I bought from him fully
> assembled back them. Is this what you need, and I can ship it to you
> at no costs. You will need to add a bumper feet on side two to
> prevent the board from touching the metal.
>
> What is your H8 configuration to understand what you are trying to do?
>
> -----
>
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Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

pbi...@gmail.com

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Nov 29, 2021, 2:25:25 AM11/29/21
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The HA8-8 Extended Configuration card enables three functions (from the documentation):

1. Status Port (interrogatable by SW; used to determine system configuration at boot)

2. ROM Disable ("ORG 0": use with CP/M, or Microsoft Basic under HDOS "since the unused memory area between PAM-8 and the H17 ROM/RAM is an excellent location for user functions")

3. Side Select (support double-sided disk drives)

WRT the "ORG 0 being useful in a cassette-based system" question my perspective was similar to the Basic/HDOS consideration: enable additional space for temporary data, perhaps in an editor or compiler application. If the application intends to write to cassette then it would need to include its own write functionality if PAM-8 has become hidden. OTOH perhaps all output goes to the console device and none to cassette. Or output is to a special-purpose peripheral, perhaps via parallel I/O.

I've done similar "overlay" tricks in other systems BITD when memory was very tight.

Whether the ORG 0 functionality was ever used in that manner in a cassette-based system, well I wouldn't know.

The Status Port looks to be useful in a cassette-based system. One could also reinterpret several switch positions given the absence of an H17 or H47 controller.

Side Select, well no -- but one could have a special-purpose peripheral responding at that I/O address rather than an H-17 controller.

As to whether any of these uses (except perhaps the first) would constitute a "typical configuration", I agree -- unlikely.

Still, IMO it *does* open up some possibilities ... but perhaps those possibilities were never explored.

Glenn Roberts

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Nov 29, 2021, 7:34:54 AM11/29/21
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I suspect you’re correct that not much has been explored here Paul. Will be interesting to see what you discover.

In preparing for my “vintage 1977/8” H8 demo at VCF I learned a lot about working with H8T (cassette) software and what it took to create basic and assembly programs back then. Gave me new appreciation for those pioneering times.

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 29, 2021, at 2:25 AM, pbi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> The HA8-8 Extended Configuration card enables three functions (from the documentation):
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
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