H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

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Norberto Collado

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Oct 23, 2020, 1:22:09 AM10/23/20
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Todd,

 

Attached is what I captured requesting H17/H37 Controllers. I will provide the update gerber files this weekend.

 

The beauty about this controller is that the I/O Port is controlled by a GAL, even the H17, so in the future the Port addresses could be changed if needed for any customized needs.

 

All,

 

Please review and provide feedback to Todd, if I erroneously captured your request.

 

Name

Qty#(H37/H67)

Qty# (H17)

Peter Higgins <higgin...@gmail.com>

1

0

Dave McGuire <mcg...@neurotica.com>

1

0

Steven Hirsch <snhi...@gmail.com>

1

1

Glenn Roberts <glenn.f...@gmail.com>

1

1

George Farris <far...@gmsys.com>

1

0

Dave McGuire <mcg...@neurotica.com>

1

1

John Evans <john.ev...@gmail.com>

1

0

geneb <ge...@deltasoft.com>

1

0

Mike Loewen <mlo...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us>

1

0

Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com>

2

2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total:

11

5

 

Thanks,

Norberto

H8 H17_H37_H67_Controllers.xlsx

Glenn Roberts

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Oct 23, 2020, 5:41:01 AM10/23/20
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Great progress Norberto!

Only change is to make my quantity two for each board

Thx

-Glenn

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 23, 2020, at 1:22 AM, Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:


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<H8 H17_H37_H67_Controllers.xlsx>

Les Bird

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Oct 23, 2020, 7:23:18 AM10/23/20
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Add 2 of each for me please.


Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPad

Dave McGuire

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Oct 23, 2020, 9:44:42 AM10/23/20
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Please make that one of each for me. Thanks!

-Dave
> _Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com>_
>
>
>
> 2
>
>
>
> 2
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Total:*
>
>
>
> *11*
>
>
>
> *5*
>
> Thanks,
>
> Norberto
>
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George Farris

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Oct 23, 2020, 3:24:08 PM10/23/20
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Please update mine to include the H17, thanks.
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Todd Goodman

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Oct 24, 2020, 8:39:00 AM10/24/20
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Thanks Norberto

Looks good and will order at least 35 H37/H67 and at least 25 H17

Todd

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tomlanewilson

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Oct 24, 2020, 11:22:41 AM10/24/20
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You get one for Tom Wilson


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

Peter Higgins

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Oct 24, 2020, 10:30:26 PM10/24/20
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Please update mine to include the H17

- Peter Higgins

Norberto Collado

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Nov 3, 2020, 3:09:26 AM11/3/20
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Todd,

 

Attached are the Gerber files for the H37/H67 and H17 companion board. I did verify everything and did the fixes to each board.

 

Thanks,

Norberto

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Todd Goodman <tacom...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 5:38 AM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

 

Thanks Norberto

H37-H67-V14.zip
H17-V14.zip

Todd Goodman

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Nov 3, 2020, 8:20:57 AM11/3/20
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Hi Norberto,

Thank you very much!  I'll get an order placed ASAP.

I'll hopefully receive the boards in around three weeks

Todd

Norberto Collado

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Nov 3, 2020, 5:18:21 PM11/3/20
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Thanks for helping out!

Norby
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

Todd Goodman

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Nov 4, 2020, 6:41:47 AM11/4/20
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Thank you for all your hard work!

Todd

Todd Goodman

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Nov 29, 2020, 8:57:01 AM11/29/20
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Hello Everyone,

I've received the boards from the board house.

They're US$15 each and shipping in the US is a flat rate US$8.40 (so a single US$8.40 no matter how many boards).


Please "send money to friends or family" or add 5% of the total to cover fees.

Please email your shipping address if sending "friends and family".

Feel free to contact me privately if you want to work out some other payment method or need shipping costs outside the US (or for any other reason :-) )

The Wiznet board is due shortly so if you were planning to get one of those you might want to hold off on this/these board(s) to ship all together to reduce per board shipping cost.

Thank

Glenn Roberts

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Nov 29, 2020, 9:52:56 AM11/29/20
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Great news Todd!  Just for clarification you’ve received two sets of boards, correct?  The H8-H37-H67 controller board plus the H-18/USB “daughter board” which can attach to it?  and each are $15…  just checking…

 

 

Glenn Roberts

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Nov 29, 2020, 9:55:19 AM11/29/20
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Meant “H-17/USB daughterboard…”  😊

Todd Goodman

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Nov 29, 2020, 10:06:37 AM11/29/20
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Hi Glenn,

Yes, those two boards and they're US$15 each

Thanks,

Todd

Glenn Roberts

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Nov 29, 2020, 10:16:52 AM11/29/20
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Great!

 

Norberto: have you done BOMs for these or is that something you need help with? (I can try and do that if you like…)  I see low res pictures on your site

 

http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-H17-H37-H67-USB.html

 

can you post high resolution versions of the boards (both populated and unpopulated) to help with component location/verification?

 

Also, in the past you’ve provided GAL/decoder programming (plus the HSFE micro) with these boards.  Is that something you can help with and/or coordinate directly with Todd (or find another volunteer in the group?)

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

  • Glenn

s shumaker

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Nov 29, 2020, 11:06:28 AM11/29/20
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Hi Todd

I missed the call for names for these.  Any chance you ordered extras?


Steve Shumaker

Glenn Roberts

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Nov 29, 2020, 11:22:05 AM11/29/20
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I believe Todd is trying a new approach, not trying to exactly count heads but instead estimating demand and ordering a generous quantity – enough to meet demand with some left over for future requests (?)

 

  • Glenn
  •  

Todd Goodman

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Nov 29, 2020, 11:53:31 AM11/29/20
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Hi Steve,

Yes, I have plenty of extras

Todd

Steven Feinsmith

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Nov 29, 2020, 2:01:54 PM11/29/20
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Hi,

May I have three boards (one H17 and one H37/67) and one Wiznet board? Is it a total of $45.00 plus $8.40 for shipping? Also, I may consider adding one or two S-100 boards at the same time.  

Thank you very much,
Steven



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/4c13800b-d3ed-4f7e-97c2-58de2cb731cdn%40googlegroups.com.

s shumaker

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Nov 29, 2020, 3:52:23 PM11/29/20
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Thanks!   In that case, please add my name for one of each and hold off shipping until the wiznet boards arrive  (I don't believe I put my name on that list either so add it there as well).

I'm back watching the list mail again so shouldn't miss any more boards.

Steve

Norberto Collado

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Nov 29, 2020, 7:34:21 PM11/29/20
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Hello Glenn,

If you can help that will be great as I'm very busy lately. Attached are different BOM's formats created by the tool if that can help out.

Yes I can help with the GALS and Microcontroller if needed. My advice will be for everyone to buy the TL866 programmer from Amazon or eBay. If this not an option for you, I will provide the GALS and Microcontroller based on Todd's shipments.


The website contains high resolution scans. Here are the links:


Let me know if more information is needed and thank you for your help,

Norberto





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List
From: "Glenn Roberts" <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, November 29, 2020 7:16 am
To: <se...@googlegroups.com>

Great!
 
Norberto: have you done BOMs for these or is that something you need help with? (I can try and do that if you like…)  I see low res pictures on your site
 
http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-H17-H37-H67-USB.html
 
can you post high resolution versions of the boards (both populated and unpopulated) to help with component location/verification?
 
Also, in the past you’ve provided GAL/decoder programming (plus the HSFE micro) with these boards.  Is that something you can help with and/or coordinate directly with Todd (or find another volunteer in the group?)
 
Thanks guys!
 
 
  • Glenn
 
 
H8-H67-H37-H17.csv
H17.csv
H17.lst
H8-H67-H37-H17.lst

Norberto Collado

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Nov 29, 2020, 7:56:56 PM11/29/20
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The following is required. This is needed to be able to remove any giving cable without the need to take other cables out.

ON THE H37/H17/H67 BOARD:

"J1-SASI 40 PIN CONNECTOR"  MUST BE RIGHT ANGLE
"J3-FLOPPY 5.25" MUST BE RIGHT ANGLE
"J2-FLOPPY 3.5" MUST BE STRAIGHT ANGLE.

ON THE H17 BOARD:

"J1 & J2" MUST BE RIGHT ANGLE FLOPPY CONNECTORS AS SHOWN ON PICTURE.
VDIP1 INTALLATION IS OPTIONAL AS IT IS ALREADY INSTALLED ON THE NEWER CPU'S.

I will send out the screws info needed to attached the H17 board.

Thanks,
Norberto

Norberto Collado

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Nov 30, 2020, 12:30:25 AM11/30/20
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Screws, male standoff, and female standoff to attach H17 board.

 

https://www.pololu.com/product/1960

https://www.pololu.com/product/1947

https://www.pololu.com/product/2086

 

Also you will need for the H17 – male header strip and female header.

 

  1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0778KCHHR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  2. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0187LHLDC/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0187LHLDC&pd_rd_w=WJWtX&pf_rd_p=7d37a48b-2b1a-4373-8c1a-bdcc5da66be9&pd_rd_wg=eJXbj&pf_rd_r=77Z2QK9PQ0S7DYB52KAS&pd_rd_r=0c5628e2-da58-46ea-8c46-11f846b53095&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTFdVU1dRTFZBMVNTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTkwMzc2T0Y0R01KNFhYOTRDJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MzMxOTM3UzdETzA2TDFPRFYmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWwmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

Thanks,

Norberto

Todd Goodman

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Nov 30, 2020, 6:46:01 AM11/30/20
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No worries Steve.  When I order boards I get plenty of extras so I have some on hand when someone wants one.

Todd

Todd Goodman

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Nov 30, 2020, 7:33:16 AM11/30/20
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Hi Steven,

Please just send the funds and the list of boards you want when I announce the Wiznet board has arrived

Thank you,

Todd

Todd Goodman

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Dec 5, 2020, 8:24:20 AM12/5/20
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Hi Everyone,

The Wiznet boards have come in from the board house.

The same details as before:

US$8.40 flat rate shipping in the US


Please "send money to friends or family" or add 5% of the total to cover the PayPal fees

Please email your shipping address if I don't already have it (or you just want to make sure I have the right address).

If PayPal doesn't work for you then we can work something else out.

If you're outside the US, I'll get shipping cost for you.

Feel free to contact me privately for any of the above (or any reason)

Thank you!

Todd

Todd Goodman

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Dec 5, 2020, 8:49:15 AM12/5/20
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They're US$15 each

Sorry for failing to mention this in the original message

Norberto Collado

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Dec 10, 2020, 4:04:05 PM12/10/20
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Re-sending!

 

From: Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com>
Date: Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 1:01 PM
To: Todd Goodman <tacom...@gmail.com>, Glenn Roberts <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

 

All,

 

Thanks and Kudos to Glenn for putting the H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller BOM together and not an easy task.

 

Please review and provide feedback as you build out the boards in case corrections are needed as we need to validate it.

 

Link: http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-H17-H37-H67-USB_files/H8-H37-H67-H17%20CombinedBOM.xlsx.zip

 

Thanks,

 

Norberto

 

Glenn Roberts

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Dec 10, 2020, 7:52:28 PM12/10/20
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A few post scripts…

 

  • The BOM I built has quite a few vendors listed. It would be possible to reduce the number and I have not listed all the part numbers from all the vendors, however I was not able to get to a single list.  You could probably come pretty close to single-sourcing the components from either Digikey or Mouser.
  • I have included Phoenix Enterprises (sockets, connectors) and Tayda (passive components) because their prices are so much lower than other vendors (by my inspection Phoenix is 1/3 price of others; Tayda as far as 1/10!)
  • Amazon and eBay may be options for some of the more difficult to find parts (e.g. WD2797)
  • We actually have two sources for the H17 S2350P USRT so that’s good news
  • I haven’t truly “validated” this BOM (other than by manual inspection) since my parts are still on order – let us know if you find any errors
  • I expect to have most of the components here by the end of next week – will report back with any issues when I get to assembly
  • Assembled boards may look slightly different from the picture on Norberto’s site as he built Rev 1.0 and current boards are 1.1

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Norberto Collado
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 4:04 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

 

Re-sending!

 

From: Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com>
Date: Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 1:01 PM
To: Todd Goodman <tacom...@gmail.com>, Glenn Roberts <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

 

All,

 

Thanks and Kudos to Glenn for putting the H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller BOM together and not an easy task.

 

Please review and provide feedback as you build out the boards in case corrections are needed as we need to validate it.

 

Link: http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-H17-H37-H67-USB_files/H8-H37-H67-H17%20CombinedBOM.xlsx.zip

 

Thanks,

 

Norberto

 

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Glenn Roberts

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Dec 14, 2020, 1:39:38 PM12/14/20
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a follow on my parts order for the new disk I/O board.  I ordered everything last Thursday (12/10) – almost everything showed up today!  great service.  I’m especially pleased with Tayda as their prices are low (and appears to have shipped from Thailand!); phoenix too, however for some reason my order was too “big” and I had to split into two (hence two shipping fees ☹ ).  Tayda and Phoenix both sent via UPS; the others arrived in the mail today (USPS).  Still waiting on my Mouser order, however I knew that was on hold – one of the items I ordered was out of stock so I said hold the whole order ‘til restock (should ship tomorrow)..

 

time to fire up the soldering iron…

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/whcns12Fg3y6RoxRA

 

 

 

From: Glenn Roberts <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 7:52 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

 

A few post scripts…

Norberto Collado

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Dec 14, 2020, 1:44:56 PM12/14/20
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Nice working bench!

 

Norberto

Norberto Collado

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Dec 15, 2020, 8:51:49 PM12/15/20
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We actually have two sources for the H17 S2350P USRT so that’s good news

 

I ordered 5-pcs of the S2350P from Quest and they arrived today. Parts are new (see attached picture). I will test one during the weekend and it is amazing that we still can buy such parts.

 

Thanks,

Norberto

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Glenn Roberts <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

 

A few post scripts…

H17-CONTROLLER-FROM-QUEST.jpg

Steven Hirsch

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Dec 15, 2020, 9:53:04 PM12/15/20
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On 12/15/20 8:51 PM, Norberto Collado wrote:
> We actually have two sources for the H17 S2350P USRT so that’s good news
>
>
>
> I ordered 5-pcs of the S2350P from Quest and they arrived today. Parts are
> new (see attached picture). I will test one during the weekend and it is
> amazing that we still can buy such parts.
>

If I'm interpreting the date code correctly, those are NOS from 51st week of 1987!

Norberto Collado

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Dec 15, 2020, 10:05:33 PM12/15/20
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Interesting!
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Glenn Roberts

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Dec 15, 2020, 10:16:10 PM12/15/20
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And the Quest parts are much cheaper than from Electronic Surplus!

 

Here’s my progress in assembling the ‘37/67 board

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QZEhrfZ1T5sSJCUu9

 

I just need to solder in a few more headers and the two resistor packs (in my Mouser order which shipped today)..

 

I’ll post pictures as I take them in this album:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MuFXSyD3DP8ZWutaA

 

  • Glenn

Norberto Collado

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Dec 16, 2020, 12:19:50 AM12/16/20
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It is a lot of assembly for both boards. It looks great and thank you for sharing.

Peter Higgins

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Dec 16, 2020, 12:27:38 AM12/16/20
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Purchasing from Quest Components is, unfortunately, cost prohibitive for anyone located outside the US. For example, their quoted shipping cost to Canada for one S2350P and one Wd2797 is over $50.

Glenn Roberts

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Dec 17, 2020, 8:45:58 AM12/17/20
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Here’s a progress update on building the H8-H17-H37-H67 mass storage card.

 

The H37/67 board and the H17/USB companion board are basically completed.  Waiting on just a few passive components (Mouser) and then I can start installing the ICs.  Did a power up test with no chips and all looks good.  Also still need to fabricate the small ribbon cable that connects the two boards…

 

While the idea of “piggybacking” the H17 card on the H37/67 one makes for a cool look I can’t quite recall the technical advantage of doing this.  Once the USB VDIP board is on there the whole thing will end up taking two card cage positions anyway, plus there’s going to be a lot of cable clutter with up to 5 ribbon cables coming off one card (6 if you count the one going to the CPU board).  Also if someone wanted to just have an H17 board they can’t, it’s only an “add on” to the ‘37/67.  Saves having to find another aluminum card bracket/heat sink I guess…  Norberto: feel free to “educate” me on what I’m missing…

 

Depending on when I get all the chips in hand I’ll post an update on whether or not this sucker works!

 

I have a few minor tweaks to the BOM which I’ll send to Norberto…

 

  • Glenn

 

Google photos album:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MuFXSyD3DP8ZWutaA

Glenn Roberts

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Dec 17, 2020, 1:18:14 PM12/17/20
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Norberto:

 

Here’s a slightly updated BOM based on my “debugging” it during assembly.  Mainly a few parts counts were wrong.  The one thing I would change though is the 0.1 uF decoupling cap’s.  My original list had Tayda’s ceramic disc capacitors – I’ve updated to show the multilayer ceramic (though I built my circuit with the disc ones since I’d bought them). The Amazon source listed in the sheet has them at $0.06 each (including shipping) but there’s a long lead (6 wks!) since they ship from China. Tayda has the same price and I got my shipment in only 4 days!

 

If we ever run a new set of H17 companion boards there are two thing I’d change on the artwork: “P4” is used twice; and there is no explicit “+” marking on the LEDs (there is a very small indication of which lead is the cathode.  Otherwise a remarkably clean set of boards.  Assembly was straightforward albeit tedious just given the number of ICs, jumpers and connectors to solder…

 

 

P.S. for anyone looking to do a bulk buy to re-cap the tantalums in your H89 consider Tayda.  Their price is $0.14 each vs. $0.55 at Jameco (though that drops to $0.39 once you buy at least 10…)

H8-H37-H67-H17 CombinedBOM v2.xlsx

geneb

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Dec 17, 2020, 1:26:31 PM12/17/20
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On Thu, 17 Dec 2020, Glenn Roberts wrote:

> P.S. for anyone looking to do a bulk buy to re-cap the tantalums in your
> H89 consider Tayda. Their price is $0.14
> <https://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/tantalum-capacitors/2-2uf-25v-radial-tantalum-capacitor.html>
> each vs. $0.55
> <https://www.jameco.com/z/TM2-2-35-Jameco-Valuepro-Capacitor-Tantalum-2-2-uF-35-Volt-10-_33736.html>
> at Jameco (though that drops to $0.39 once you buy at least 10…)

Grrr. I just paid ab$urd for them at Mouser. :(

g.

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Glenn Roberts

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Dec 18, 2020, 9:29:25 AM12/18/20
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Looking at the Tayda list of products I could have been more aggressive about using them, e.g. they seem to have a good selection of connectors and even 74 series ICs...

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Norberto Collado

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Dec 18, 2020, 4:43:51 PM12/18/20
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On the 0.1uf make sure the lead space is 2.54mm and not 5mm.

 

I will check on the LED’s symbol, as the ones I used before, they put a pasted on side 2 and was not able to solder.  Good catch on “P4”.

 

Please inspect side 2 for shorts or bad solder joints as it is a lot of IC’s to solder. Also recheck the ground pins to have enough solder as it is hard to heat properly due to heat dissipation thru the ground plane.

Glenn Roberts

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Dec 18, 2020, 6:16:13 PM12/18/20
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Yes there are quite a few ground plane connections, on both boards. I developed a certain rhythm in soldering but would always linger an extra 5 seconds or more on the ground plane solder points to ensure that the solder was clearly melted and flowing!

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 18, 2020, at 4:43 PM, Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:



Glenn Roberts

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Dec 18, 2020, 11:15:55 PM12/18/20
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Today’s build update on the new mass storage controller board:

 

I did a dry fit of the H17 companion board onto the H37/67 controller board, this time with the chips installed. pix updated in my Google album:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MuFXSyD3DP8ZWutaA

 

with the specified 3/8” standoffs there’s just not quite enough room for my comfort.  Many of the solder points from the companion board were directly touching the iCs on the main board below.  I added washers under the standoffs to buy about 1mm, which was enough to resolve the problem.  At first, I had two washers under each but then there wasn’t enough purchase on the 1x25 header connections. With one washer it works but the headers are still not quite fully seated.  I think I can go back and take the washers out under the end where those connectors are, as the main impingement problem seems to be at the left end of the board – then the pins will be fully seated between the two boards. Also, if you use a socket for the oscillator you’ll need to trim the leads so it doesn’t stick up. Once I get the GALs and encoder chips installed, I’ll cross my fingers and fire things up!

 

  • Glenn

Norberto Collado

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Dec 19, 2020, 1:25:55 AM12/19/20
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As I soldered the oscillator directly to the board (no socket installed), I did not see any component touching the companion board. Using washers to get the extra height will be a concern on the connection between the two boards as it might introduce problems to the H17 controller.

Glenn Roberts

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Dec 19, 2020, 4:34:01 AM12/19/20
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Soldering the oscillator in directly would be preferred. I may make that change. I will see if there are some leads that can be trimmed to remove the need for washers. Thanks.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 19, 2020, at 1:25 AM, Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:



Norberto Collado

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Dec 19, 2020, 5:18:19 AM12/19/20
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Also you can put those little dots with adhesive to prevent from touching. Leave it as it is until everything is tested.

 

A picture containing accessory, case Description automatically generated

rand...@hotmail.com

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Dec 19, 2020, 9:42:48 AM12/19/20
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My favorite way to thinly insulate is to use sheet gasket material from a hardware or autoparts store. It comes in a roll, can be held in place by either punching holes, or use silicone caulking to glue it to bottom of board.

Both thin and strong.


Randy

Glenn Roberts

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Dec 19, 2020, 9:46:23 AM12/19/20
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I went back and soldered the oscillator directly (no socket). I also clipped about 1mm off the ends of the pins from the 34-pin connectors for the ribbon cable.  I also noted that the full height DIP switch that I used is part of the problem.  Norberto used a low profile unit, which is preferable in this situation.  I can now mate the two boards without using spacer washers.

 

I will correct the BOM to indicate these changes (and make sure I’ve spec’ed 2.54 mm caps for the bypass!) and will repost

Glenn Roberts

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Dec 19, 2020, 12:03:19 PM12/19/20
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Updated BOM reflecting changes discussed here recently.

 

Norberto: please update on your site. Tx.

H8-H37-H67-H17 CombinedBOM v3.xlsx

Norberto Collado

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Dec 20, 2020, 7:18:53 PM12/20/20
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Done and please refresh your browser before downloading.

Terry Smedley

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Jan 2, 2021, 8:51:31 PM1/2/21
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Nice photos to completion, Glenn!

(How) did you program the GALs?  I've tried programming with my TL866II, but not getting good results.  I've confirmed all the inputs to the address decoder GALS are OK, but the outputs are silent.  I have previously only used the TL866 for EPROMs, so I was skeptical to start, but I thought I'd give it a try.

Also, could you share your jumper settings for the H37/67 and H17 cards?  I think I've figured most of them out, but it would be comforting to hear what you used in your working installation.

Thanks.

Terry

Terry Smedley

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Jan 2, 2021, 8:58:30 PM1/2/21
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Norberto:

Anything we should be aware for adjusting the H37 controller trimmers other than what's in the WD2797 datasheet procedure?

Thanks.

Terry

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 2, 2021, 9:02:17 PM1/2/21
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I’ve been working with Norberto to develop a “quick start” guide including jumper settings.  Hit a snag – my assembled board has some kind of glitch. Norberto is looking at it.

 

Rather than hold folks up here’s a DRAFT of the current document. I plan to add just a bit more material and then it will be available on Norberto’s site.

 

I’ll let Norberto address the GAL programming question. He’s the expert.

 

  • Glenn

 

 

H37_67_V_1_1_Jumper_Definitions.pdf

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 2, 2021, 9:03:39 PM1/2/21
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Calibration procedure is the same as for his H89-Z37 card.  this worked fine for me.

 

http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H89-Z37_files/H89-Z37_Calibration.pdf

 

 

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Terry Smedley

Norberto Collado

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Jan 3, 2021, 1:49:33 AM1/3/21
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I’ll let Norberto address the GAL programming question. He’s the expert.

 

On the GAL programming I used the “TL866 II Plus” programmer from Amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/Aideepen-TL866CS-Programmer-Adapters-Extractor/dp/B01MA497YA/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=tl866ii+plus&qid=1609653231&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRzM5QkVQUVg5TzY0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjE5MTgyMklFN1k1Mk1YWk5EVSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzI5OTIzMU5TRFpTMFhMV0NXUyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

Note: For the GAL’s to program properly you must “match” the same Vendor numbers and letters that are on the top of the IC to match the Device on the TL866 II PLUS. By default the programmer will protect the data on the GAL, so subsequence IC verifies will fail, unless you uncheck such option on the programmer.

 

Then I download from the website the following files to program the GALS and the Microcontroller:

H37/H67 U5 -  IO Decoder (GAL): http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-H17-H37-H67-USB_files/GAL_H17_H37_H67_IO_DECODER.zip

H17 U3 - GAL H17 Ports: GAL-H17_RD_WR_PORTS.zip

H37 U38 - GAL 444-81, H37 U34 - GAL 444-82: http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-H17-H37-H67-USB_files/Storage%20Controller%20Z37%20GALs%20FW.zip

H17 IC1 – ATTNY2313P - HSFE10: http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-H17-H37-H67-USB_files/HSFE%20CODE.zip Note: Use the HSFE bin file to program the IC with theTL866.

 

For now jumper JP1 – IORQ – set it to pins 2-3 “FAKE” selection to get your system up and running. JP1 jumper 1-2 “Z80” is only for the Z80 V3.x boards.

 

Hope this helps to get you up and running,

Norberto Collado

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Jan 6, 2021, 4:14:52 AM1/6/21
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Glenn,

 

We need to fix this as it will disable the H17. Also I do have your boards on-hand, so I will check them out during the weekend as I’m back to work.

 

From:

 

JP1

ENABLE H17 – Remove this jumper to disable the board. Default is installed.

 

It should be:

 

JP1

ENABLE H17 – Remove this jumper to enable the board. Default is no jumper installed.

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 6, 2021, 6:28:48 AM1/6/21
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Updated guidance attached.

 

Norberto is checking for a possible issue with my assembled board(s) as I am seeing a problem when I try to boot from the Z67-IDE+.  Once I have them back, I will take a few more pictures and update/finalize this document, at which point it will live on Norberto’s site

 

http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-H17-H37-H67-USB.html

 

If any of you are assembling this new I/O board please let the group know how things are progressing, any issues or questions, and if you have things up and running! (and also if you spot any corrections to the attached!...)

H37_67_V_1_1_Jumper_Definitions.pdf

Terry Smedley

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Jan 6, 2021, 9:55:49 AM1/6/21
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I have both boards assembled.  At this time, the H37 section is working fine.  I am doing component swaps to try to isolate a couple of issues noted in other sections.  I can boot and read from the H67-IDE+, but writes under both CP/M and HDOS 2.0 have resulted in disk corruption.  H17 control & status ports are responding normally (drive select, spindle & stepper motors, write protect, hole detect), but I haven''t been able to read or write data yet.

A couple of construction notes:  

The lead spacing for the H37 timing capacitors C34 & C35 is 0.4".  I used TDK series B32521 caps (Digikey 495-2436-ND and 495-4167-ND) for a clean fit with the board spacing.  

The second item is noted only if you are setting the H67 boot selection switches with an external device (in my case, an Arduino).  The polarity of the switch inputs on the new board is inverted from the polarity used on the WH8-37.  I wanted to use the same external configuration for either board, so I swapped U13 from an LS540 to an LS541 to match the WH8-37 switch polarity.  Again, that's not a problem with the board and is of no consequence if you're using the onboard switch for boot selection.

Terry

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 6, 2021, 10:33:19 AM1/6/21
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Good catch on the timing cap’s – I’ll update the BOM spreadsheet (I had to bend the leads on mine …)

 

 

Norberto Collado

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Jan 10, 2021, 2:21:37 AM1/10/21
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Hello Glenn,

 

I have been checking the H67 circuit and cannot find anything wrong with your board. I can boot fine H37 floppies, but the H67 will not boot CP/M, but it tries to boot HDOS and then it fails (see attached screen). Also it is telling me under HDOS that I have only 11K of RAM. I have been taking SASI bus traces and they look fine.

 

At this time I suspect a timing issue with one of the IC’s but the 11K RAM availability is what I need to figure out to fix the issue. On power-on my H8 display indicates an SP of “377-377Q” of RAM.

 

Worst case, I can swap the IC’s from my board with yours, one at a time to isolate the marginal part. As I have Douglas’ scripts running on your H67, I can probe the main signals with the scope.

 

I hope I can figure out the issue by tomorrow.

Glenn_HDOS_boot.jpg

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 10, 2021, 5:07:53 AM1/10/21
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Well you are seeing the exact same thing I was so that’s good. The 11K thing is certainly odd but offers a clue if we can figure it out. I was hoping you’d spot a timing issue on the SASI bus.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 10, 2021, at 2:21 AM, Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/801C7D3C-CAF7-4689-B708-827178276526%40koyado.com.
<Glenn_HDOS_boot.jpg>

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 10, 2021, 10:43:15 AM1/10/21
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It might be informative to monitor S.HIMEM+1 (040.317) on the H8 front panel LEDs during the boot.  This contains the high byte of the high memory location found by RRH in the boot process (listing below).  What’s odd is that HDOS didn’t immediately bail after the “11K” message.  The code indicates things should have immediately halted if S.HIMEM indicated less than 24K…  not sure if there’s a clue there or not…  My best guess is that somehow the HDOS image is getting only slightly corrupted as it is read (but not so much that it’s not executable), and it’s being corrupted in a repeatable manner, not just random, since the “11K” thing happens every time.  You could also use the front panel to examine RAM to see if it agrees with the listing below or if there’s an observable pattern of corruption (e.g. multiple NULs)

 

The “Missing File” message is printed in the Load System Overlays (LSO) routine, which is considerably further down in the boot process (see below).  So again, confusing, since all the code in between would have to have been minimally corrupted or intact… When it fails to load the overlay that’s what triggers call to BOOTERR and aborts the boot.

 

  • Glenn

 

 

                        01098   *     BOOT CODE

                        01099

   051.030  315 154 051 01100   CALL SBD        Save Boot Data             /80.05.gc/

   051.033  041 312 040 01101   LXI  H,S.TIME

   051.036  006 204     01102   MVI  B,AIO.CHA-S.TIME

   051.040  315 212 031 01103   CALL $ZERO      ZERO OUT LOTS OF MEMORY

   051.043  315 337 052 01104   CALL SDV        SETUP DEFAULT SYSTEM VALUES

   051.046  315 217 051 01105   CALL RRH        RELOCATE RESIDENT HDOS CODE

   051.051  315 113 052 01106   CALL SRR        SET UP ROM REPLACEMENTS

   051.054  315 114 052 01107   CALL SLR        SET LOW MEMORY REFERENCES

   051.057  315 337 052 01108   CALL SDV        SETUP DEFAULT SYSTEM VALUES

   051.062  315 021 053 01109   CALL SCD        SETUP CONSOLE DRIVER

   051.065  315 215 053 01110   CALL GVM        GIVE VERSION MESSAGE       /80.05.gc/

   051.070  315 270 053 01111   CALL FSM        Fake System Mount          /80.05.gc/

   051.073  315 356 053 01112   CALL LSO        LOCATE SYSTEM OVERLAYS          /80.05.gc/

   051.076  315 364 054 01113   CALL SDT        SETUP DEVICE TABLES        /80.05.gc/

   051.101  315 377 060 01114   CALL SSD        SET SYSTEM DATE            /80.05.gc/

   051.104  315 164 056 01115   CALL MSD        Mount System Diskette      /80.05.gc/

   051.107  315 323 061 01116   CALL UBP        Update Boot Parameters          /80.06.gc/

 

 

 

RRH routine:

 

 

  051.217              01170   RRH   EQU  *

                        01171

                        01172   *     DETERMINE HIGH MEMORY

                        01173

   051.217  041 240 051 01174   LXI  H,RRH2          START AT RRH2

   051.222  056 000     01175   MVI  L,0        START AT 256 BOUNDARY

   051.224  044         01176 RRH1    INR  H          TRY NEXT BLOCK

   051.225  312 237 051 01177   JZ   RRH1.5          Wrap through high memory     /80.08.gc/

   051.230  176         01178   MOV  A,M

   051.231  064         01179   INR  M

   051.232  276         01180   CMP  M

   051.233  167         01181   MOV  M,A        RESTORE

   051.234  302 224 051 01182   JNE  RRH1       WAS RAM

   051.237  053         01183 RRH1.5  DCX  H          (HL) = HIGHMEM             /80.08.gc/

                        01184

                        01185   *     (HL) = HIGHMEN ADDRESS

                        01186

   000.001              01187   IF   DEBUG

                        01192   ELSE

   051.240              01193 RRH2    EQU  *

                        01194   ENDIF

   051.240  042 316 040 01195 RRH2.5  SHLD S.HIMEM         SET HARDWARE HIGH MEM

   051.243  043         01196   INX  H          (HL) = LWA+1

   051.244  174         01197   MOV  A,H

   051.245  326 040     01198   SUI  40Q

   051.247  037         01199   RAR

   051.250  037         01200   RAR

   051.251  346 077     01201   ANI  77Q        (A) = # OF K

   051.253  137         01202   MOV  E,A

   051.254  026 000     01203   MVI  D,0

   051.256  315 107 064 01204   CALL $TYPET

   051.261  000 123 131 01205   DB   0,'SYSTEM HAS',' '+200Q

            123 124 105

            115 040 110

            101 123 240

   051.275  076 002     01206   MVI  A,2

   051.277  315 316 060 01207   CALL TDD        TYPE NUMBER OF K

   051.302  315 107 064 01208   CALL $TYPET

   051.305  113 040 117 01209   DB   'K OF RAM',200Q

            106 040 122

            101 115 200

   051.316  072 317 040 01210   LDA  S.HIMEM+1  (A) = SIZE

   051.321  326 177     01211   SUI  24*4+40Q-1 24 K                      /2.0a/

   051.323  322 003 052 01212   JNC  RRH3       ENOUGH ROOM

                        01213


                                                      HEATH ASM #104.06.00

RRH - RELOCATE HDOS RESIDENT CODE                     23-Jun-19  Page    8

 

                        01214   *     NOT ENOUGH ROOM

                        01215

   051.326  315 107 064 01216   CALL $TYPET

   051.331  007 077 060 01217   DB   BELL,'?01 HDOS REQUIRES AT LEAST 24K!',0,BELL+200Q     /2.0a/

            061 040 110

            104 117 123

            040 122 105

            121 125 111

            122 105 123

            040 101 124

            040 114 105

            101 123 124

            040 062 064

            113 041 000

            207

   051.373  257         01218   XRA  A                                    /2.0a/

   051.374  323 351     01219   OUT  SC.ACE+UR.IER   Turn off Interrupts              /2.0a/

   051.376  323 373     01220   OUT  SC.UART+USR                                /2.0a/

   052.000  303 000 052 01221   JMP  *          Wait for the rapture            /2.0a/

HDOS.LST

Terry Smedley

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Jan 10, 2021, 12:03:47 PM1/10/21
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Norberto & Glenn:

re: IC timing issues

What logic family are you using for the 74xx573 and 74xx574 at U20 & U26 in the H67 section?  The board and schematic call out LS series; the BOM specified a mix of HCT, LS, and F families for those two devices (depending upon supplier). 

After swapping all devices except for U20 & U26 on my board, I am still seeing H67 data corruption issues that could also be timing.  While I can boot both QS-HDOS and QS-CP/M, a write of any length leads to disk corruption.  In CP/M, the directory gets corrupted with doubled-up characters (ex: TEST.DOC ends up in the directory as TTEESSTT.DDO) ; in HDOS, the volume becomes unmountable (HDOS reports structure corruption).    The H37 section on my board is running fine as well.

Just wondering if this mix of logic families (and propagation speeds) might be a piece of the puzzle for both Glenn and me.  

Terry

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 10, 2021, 12:30:49 PM1/10/21
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Whatever is in the BOM is probably what I installed . Perhaps I was not careful enough about substitutions. I think in a few cases I couldn't find exactly what Norberto had indicated on the board itself...

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/e0878f43-8bcb-47f3-aa62-f0dba4f0f539n%40googlegroups.com.

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 10, 2021, 12:47:19 PM1/10/21
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Further analysis: for U20 (74LS574) I listed the “F” version under Mouser because they didn’t seem to have HCT.  Jameco and DigiKey have it so I listed that.  if “F” is not backward compatible with “HCT” in this application that could be an issue? 

 

Looking back at my order sheets I believe I used a 74HCT574 (from Jameco) which is what the board silkscreen identified.  Pretty sure everything else I used is what was on the silkscreening on the board?

Terry Smedley

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Jan 10, 2021, 1:25:03 PM1/10/21
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Glenn:

Interesting....the silkscreen on my board shows "LS" for both U20 & U26.   I currently have a 74HCT574 there because I couldn't quickly find a source for the LS chip and that is "usually" a safe substitution.   I can't see for sure what Norberto has installed on the board pictured on his web page.  

I only mentioned this because when Norberto said he was looking at timing, I recalled there was a difference in family between the schematic/silkscreen and what I was able to source.  Might have nothing to do with anything!

Terry

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 10, 2021, 1:53:50 PM1/10/21
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My mistake then. I don't have the board in front of me right now. I'm sure its identical to yours.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/66ebc1f8-bb1b-4f8d-9e43-f64f908e7df4n%40googlegroups.com.

Norberto Collado

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Jan 10, 2021, 7:08:58 PM1/10/21
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Thank you Terry for the “hint”. I changed Glenn’s “74HCT574” for a “74LS574” and the board is now working fine. It booted HDOS and CP/M without any issues.

 

Let me investigate on why the “74HCT574” is not latching properly. The only difference I see right away is the PD; for 74HCT is 28ns and for the 74LS is 15ns. For the 74F574 is 8.5ns.

Terry Smedley

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Jan 10, 2021, 7:27:56 PM1/10/21
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Great!  I've got some LS family 573/574 ordered - Hoping that will solve my write issue as well!

Terry

Norberto Collado

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Jan 10, 2021, 7:36:25 PM1/10/21
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I think that you solved your issue as data is not latching properly and data corruption will happen. I’m probing with the scope to gather more information.

 

Norberto

glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Jan 10, 2021, 8:50:12 PM1/10/21
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I think this is why I put the HCT in the BOM.  The LS is labeled “obsolete” by DigiKey, unless I’m missing something…

 

 

 

Also Jameco didn’t have it

 

 

And Mouser lists as “obsolete”

 

 

Please suggest a workable alternative (perhaps 74F574?)

image001.png
image002.png
image003.png

Norberto Collado

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Jan 10, 2021, 9:21:25 PM1/10/21
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That is correct! Let me try to get/find some F574 as they are available and run some tests.

 

For now the 74LS574 can be purchased from https://www.futurlec.com/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi

 

Thanks,

Norberto

Terry Smedley

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Jan 11, 2021, 12:11:02 AM1/11/21
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I should have my hands on "F", "ALS", AND "LS" family 573/574s by Wednesday (Quest Components).  The "ALS" spec sheets show propagation times very close to "LS".   I'll post the results of testing.  I'd be happy to send several of your preferred flavor(s) to you.

Terry

Norberto Collado

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Jan 11, 2021, 3:09:15 AM1/11/21
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Terry,

 

I’m interested on the “F” and the “ALS” if you can share a few.

 

Glenn,

 

The H37/H67 board is fully functional after the replacing with the 74LS574. The H17 board for some reason cannot read the data from the floppy. I did replace the H17 controller with the one I have working on my board and same issue. So, I will need to debug further.

Thanks,

Norberto

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Terry Smedley <terry....@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 9:11 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

 

I should have my hands on "F", "ALS", AND "LS" family 573/574s by Wednesday (Quest Components).  The "ALS" spec sheets show propagation times very close to "LS".   I'll post the results of testing.  I'd be happy to send several of your preferred flavor(s) to you.

 

Terry

On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 6:21:25 PM UTC-8 Norby wrote:

That is correct! Let me try to get/find some F574 as they are available and run some tests.

 

For now the 74LS574 can be purchased from https://www.futurlec.com/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi

 

Thanks,

Norberto

 

From: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 5:50 PM
To: "se...@googlegroups.com" <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sebhc] H8-H17-H37-H67 Controller List

 

I think this is why I put the HCT in the BOM.  The LS is labeled “obsolete” by DigiKey, unless I’m missing something…

 

 

Image removed by sender.

 

Also Jameco didn’t have it

 

Image removed by sender.

 

And Mouser lists as “obsolete”

 

Image removed by sender.

Terry Smedley

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Jan 11, 2021, 8:42:00 PM1/11/21
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Norberto:

As with Glenn's board, I have been unable to read from a (previously formatted) H17 floppy with the new controller.  Can't say for sure that we have the same problem, but it seems at least plausible that the same issue is affecting both our boards.

I observed that if I format a diskette with the new controller, I can read/write/boot that diskette in the new controller with no errors.  But such floppy is not readable with the Heath H17 controller.   And floppies formatted with the Heath controller are not readable in the new controller.

That suggests a couple of scenarios that I'm continuing to investigate.....

Terry

Norberto Collado

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Jan 12, 2021, 12:38:25 AM1/12/21
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Thanks for the feedback! It might be a common issue.

Error! Filename not specified.

 

Also Jameco didn’t have it

 

Error! Filename not specified.

 

And Mouser lists as “obsolete”

 

Error! Filename not specified.

Norberto Collado

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Jan 12, 2021, 11:55:47 AM1/12/21
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Does the format completes on your board? I can do the format as shown in the attached file, but it cannot read it. I replaced most of the IC’s an still failing.

 

Thanks,

Norberto

H17-Format.jpg

Terry Smedley

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Jan 12, 2021, 1:17:54 PM1/12/21
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Norberto:

Yes, I can format and mount without error.   I am working only with (two) 5-1/4" drives with "real" 10 sector diskettes - not using any of the HSFE components - just trying to duplicate the native H17 functionality first.  I can't mount any diskette which has not been formatted with the new card.

So far, here's what I have observed.  I will assemble some scope traces this morning.  

The raw read data coming off the drive shows that the pulse width written to diskette from the new card is twice the width produced by the Heath H17 controller (or found on any pre-formatted distribution diskette).  The pulse width for diskettes formatted with the new controller is 1us, while the pulse width from the Heath H17 controller is half that - 500ns.  With the native 500ns pulse width, the 2350 controller is frequently missing the sync character.  Attempts to mount Heath-formatted diskettes with the new controller will result in Missing Header Sync errors flagged by the H17 device driver.  Sync characters written with the wider pulse from the new controller are recognized and the diskettes can be mounted, read from, and written to without error on the new controller.

The differentiated read pulse output on pin 6 of the 74121 looks OK with the narrower pulse.  I'm tracking down the rest of the pathway to the 2350 controller to see where the narrow pulses are getting lost.

Terry

Terry Smedley

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Jan 12, 2021, 2:46:55 PM1/12/21
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Norberto:

I believe that my issue is due to a difference in side select polarity between the Trionyx CPU/Heath H17 controller and the new controller board.  

I flipped the side select polarity on the Trionyx from active low (the Trionyx default) to active high (Jumper J5, moved from 1-2 to 2-3), and I have now successfully mounted a few original distribution disks.  

I'll continue to test interchangeability of disks between the H17 controller and the new controller.  I also need to re-check my observations on pulse width differences - those observations were made when I was looking at the "back side" of my test diskettes, so they might be completely invalid.

Terry

Terry Smedley

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Jan 12, 2021, 6:16:12 PM1/12/21
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Norberto:

After flipping the side select polarity, the H17 section of the storage controller is working fine.  HDOS and CP/M boot fine, and all flavors of 40/80/SS/DS diskettes have been formatted and used  without error.  I dusted off a UCSD Pascal distribution diskette and that worked fine, too.  The pulse width observations were artifacts of looking at the opposite side of the diskette - floppies formatted using either controller are read/writeable in the  other.  

I will probably make the minor mod to the new board to keep the side select consistent with the Trionyx/Heath H17 coupling.  

Should have replacement 573/574 ICs tomorrow and will send them your way ASAP.  Assuming the "LS" or "F" devices solve the H67 write issue, everything appears to be working as intended.  Thanks for another great board!

I went a slightly different direction with the physical mounting of the H17 board to the H37/67 board.  When I pull the board(s) to swap the ICs tomorrow, I'll get some pictures that show what I did.

Terry

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 8:55:47 AM UTC-8 Norby wrote:

norberto.collado koyado.com

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Jan 12, 2021, 8:09:07 PM1/12/21
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So, your new H17 is working fine then. The side-select circuit is from the H89 circuit. So, what you are saying is that I double inverted the H17 side-select for the older Z80 CPU's?

Thanks for another great board!

No problem! At least now we have a newer version of the original Heathkit H37/H67 Combo board. The most important part is the H37 using newer components to extend its useful life.

On the physical mounting of the H17 board to the H37/67 board, Glenn brought to my attention that the H17 board bends due to the 16-pin ribbon cable underneath. Any pictures on a better mounting scheme are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Norberto

Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 3:16 PM
H89-H17-side-select.PNG

Terry Smedley

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Jan 12, 2021, 10:38:02 PM1/12/21
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Norberto:

The H8-17 controller card didn't implement side select (or at least my very early one didn't), so when the Tandons came out, the "fix" for side-select was just to run a wire from bus pin 18 to pin 32 on the floppy interface.

So.....my thought was just to lift pin 11 on U16 and jumper the pads from pin 12 to pin 11 to bypass the on-board inversion.   If you think that additional drive is appropriate, it looks like there's a spare inverter nearby on U13 that could be stacked behind U16 with two short jumpers.

This probably affects very few prospective users of the board - those with both a legacy CPU, and an H8-17 board they want to preserve.  

Terry

Terry Smedley

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Jan 13, 2021, 12:42:07 AM1/13/21
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re: physical interconnection of H67/37 & H17 boards

Here is what I used:

Hex standoffs, #4-40 x 7/16", Digikey 1772-1565-ND
Fibre washer, #4, Digikey 36-3116-ND
25-position female header, Digikey S7058-ND (Sullins Connector #PPPC251LFBN-RC)
25-position male pins, Digikey 900-0022284255-ND (Molex 0022284255)

Fiber washers were used under component side of the hex standoffs to be sure there was no chafing of traces that could result in shorts.  When the boards are assembled, the pins are fully engaged (bottomed) with the header.  There are no clearance issues with any component, including the 16-pin DIP IDC plug (Jameco, from Glenn's BOM).  

Some will not like the use of spring contacts rather than machined sockets.  I tried both methods, and preferred these components.  YMMV.

Terry

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 5:09:07 PM UTC-8 Norby wrote:
Board clearance.jpg
Board pins.jpg
Assembled board.jpg
Board_Spacers.jpg

Norberto Collado

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Jan 13, 2021, 4:17:27 AM1/13/21
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Thanks Terry for sharing your solution.

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 13, 2021, 6:42:37 AM1/13/21
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Agree. A nice improvement, thanks for sharing!

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 13, 2021, at 4:17 AM, Norberto Collado <norberto...@koyado.com> wrote:



norberto.collado koyado.com

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Jan 13, 2021, 5:53:28 PM1/13/21
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Terry,

This will be the rework I will be developing. Let me know if you if you have a different approach. It is required only for the older Z80 boards and Les's Z80 V2.x boards. The rework is not required for Z80 3.x boards as it is based on the H89 circuit. 

Thanks,
Norberto

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Glenn Roberts <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 3:42 AM
H17-Rework.PNG

Terry Smedley

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Jan 13, 2021, 7:01:35 PM1/13/21
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Norberto:

That will work!  I also considered using the spare inverter on pins 12 & 13 of U13 because of its proximity to U16.  Would that be any easier?  Either approach will sure do the trick.

Thanks!

Terry


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norberto.collado koyado.com

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Jan 13, 2021, 7:46:45 PM1/13/21
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Yes, I agree that the other end will be easier.  Updated schematic.

Thanks,
Norberto

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Terry Smedley <te...@tsmedley.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 4:01 PM
H17-Rework.PNG
Message has been deleted

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 20, 2021, 10:44:11 AM1/20/21
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Norberto (et. al.): attached is updated BOM reflecting Terry’s improved method of piggybacking the two boards…

 

  • Glenn

 

 

H8-H37-H67-H17 CombinedBOM v5.xlsx

Norberto Collado

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Jan 20, 2021, 11:43:45 AM1/20/21
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This is a better method as the other I already bend/broke a ping and it is not reliable if boards are detached for reconfiguration or debug as pins can be damaged if not that careful. Also it should prevent the H17 controller board from bending due to the height of the 16 pin ribbon cable.

 

Thanks Glenn, and Terry for your support.

Steven Hirsch

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Jan 20, 2021, 1:20:11 PM1/20/21
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On 1/20/21 11:43 AM, Norberto Collado wrote:
> This is a better method as the other I already bend/broke a ping and it is
> not reliable if boards are detached for reconfiguration or debug as pins
> can be damaged if not that careful. Also it should prevent the H17
> controller board from bending due to the height of the 16 pin ribbon
> cable.

Yes, anecdotally I've had a number of problems associated with plugging a
machine pin header into a machined socket. Based on more recent experiences,
I'm going to revisit Norberto's Corvus piggyback for the H89 Z37 board, as I
think such connectivity problems were responsible for it's failure to work.

> Thanks Glenn, and Terry for your support.
Indeed. Great work, all!

Steve

Norberto Collado

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Jan 24, 2021, 2:53:18 AM1/24/21
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Glenn,

 

Both boards are working fine, so I will ship them on Monday morning.

 

On the “74HCT574” issue, this IC is working fine on my controller. I can read/write with HDOS at 10MHz without any issues. I cannot reproduce your issue on my controller using your IC.

 

I will keep testing in trying to reproduce your issue as I’m concerned it could be timing. Also Terry send me additional IC’s to check them out as alternatives.

 

I hope that your issue is resolved for good with the 74LS574. If it re-occurs, perhaps could be a bad IC socket on U20. Or some poor connection around that area. I did inspect side 2 of your board for any issues and the board is well put together. I was not able to find any soldering issues.

 

Thanks,

Norberto

 

Picture of your IC on my board.

 

A close - up of a circuit board Description automatically generated with medium confidence

Glenns_boards.jpg

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 24, 2021, 7:08:37 AM1/24/21
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Well that was certainly odd but I am very grateful for your generous time and effort to correct this problem.  The good news, I suppose, is that we apparently did not turn up any systemic or design error and have some additional information on which chips do and don’t work with this board.  I have most of the parts to build out my second set of boards and will proceed with that soon.  I will also complete our PowerPoint slides on how to configure the boards, including some pictures of mine.

 

Are you thinking of doing a users guide like you’ve done for the others? If not perhaps an alternative is to build up the PowerPoint slide deck by adding some notes on assembly.  I think your time is best spent on development and debugging of the boards themselves, and I know you have an ambitious vision for more of those.  I’m particularly intrigued with the idea of a “short chassis” H8 – that would be pretty cool!  Let me know if/how I can help.

 

Take care and thanks again!

image002.jpg

Norberto Collado

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Jan 24, 2021, 4:59:28 PM1/24/21
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Are you thinking of doing a user’s guide like you’ve done for the others? Yes! Also a new calibration guide for the H37 board.

 

During the H17 troubleshooting process, I realized that I need to developed a “Troubleshooting Guideline” along with scope waveforms as that helped me a lot.

 

Also, I will create one for the H37/H67 on basic checks.

 

A question: Did you calibrate the H37 board using a scope? I did check the calibration on the scope and it was correct.

 

Also, I did test your board using your cables and they are working fine. Just plugged the 16 pin ribbon cable onto the CPU board and everything should work as designed.

 

Thanks and have fun,

Glenn Roberts

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Jan 24, 2021, 6:27:51 PM1/24/21
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Yes I used a scope and I believe I used the calibration instructions from the H8-Z37 Calibration Guide here:

 

http://koyado.com/Heathkit/H8-Z37_files/H8-Z37_Calibration.pdf

image001.jpg

Norberto Collado

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Jan 25, 2021, 12:46:41 AM1/25/21
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I ordered the components outlined by Terry to update my board as machine socket male pins break so easily.

 

I see that Terry soldered all 50 male pins to the H17 controller as shown below. This will require a lot of force to take out and to push in. Below is my recommendation.

 

A picture containing electronics, circuit Description automatically generated

 

I would suggest at minimum to only insert the needed male pins as shown below. Where you see a “+” on P5 and P6, then you insert/solder a male pin into that location, so that the board can be easily removed or inserted.

 

Best to do as the male header pins can be broken onto different sizes:

 

P6:

  1. On H8 pins 46, 47, 48 (+8V), & 49 (+8V)  – insert/solder 4 male pins
  2. On H8 pins 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, & 32 – insert/solder 8 male pins

P5:

  1. On H8 pins 0 (GND), 1 (GND), 2, & 3 – insert 4 male pins
  2. On H8 pins 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, & 22 – insert/solder 13 male pins.

 

Note: Before soldering the male and female headers on each board, make sure all 6 screws are installed and secured properly to get best hole alignment for such headers on P6 and P5 locations.

 

If male/females headers are soldered independently, there might be a risk of misalignment when installing the 6-screws to secure both boards.

 

Graphical user interface, application Description automatically generated

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