Chess, anyone? Any more H8T format archives?

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cole erskine

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Aug 4, 2022, 8:57:10 PM8/4/22
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Hi guys,

Just got my "new" H8/H9 up and running. I'm using Mike's tips from April to use the KCS utility to convert H8T files to WAV files (works great, thanks Mike!) and loading/running those.

Looking specifically for a chess program, but I couldn't get H8CHESS.WAV to run (tried hitting the space bar a couple times to no avail). MYCHESS on Mark Garlanger's site is only available in H8D format.

So far the only .H8T format archives I can find are the "Heath Tape" and the "HUG_885-1009 Tape", both on the SEBHC web site.

Any other sources for H8T files? Or cassette image audio WAV files besides those on Mark's site?

Thanks!

-Cole

Glenn Roberts

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Aug 4, 2022, 9:37:20 PM8/4/22
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I can help with this but am about to go on a road trip with my son to upstate NY. If you’re not aware we have some cassette software archived


We also have an ability to create new H8T files from .ABS executables. I even have some games for the HA-8-3 graphics card that I’ve written that can be run from H8T.

Take a look at the above URL and we can chat more when I return (Sunday)

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 4, 2022, at 8:57 PM, cole erskine <cers...@gmail.com> wrote:

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cole erskine

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Aug 4, 2022, 9:43:52 PM8/4/22
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Hi Glenn,

Thank you for the quick reply.

Wow, thanks, I’ll check out the .ABS threads!

I am aware of the Cassette Tape Images on the SEBHC site.

-Cole

Glenn Roberts

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Aug 5, 2022, 5:52:55 AM8/5/22
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I’ve come to realize the simplicity and elegance of the original H8 tape-based loading (which ironically I never used in the old days as I started out with a disk-based setup) I was first inspired by Erik Ackerman’s clean demo


Which uses only the h8 plus a laptop to simulate the tape system and console. Then add Dave Runkle’s adapter that lets you read digital (H8T) images instead of audio (WAV) and you’ve got the basis for a nice easy demo setup. Mike Ladwig has built a cool digital replacement for the tape player and Joe Travis has added speed up and USB capability. Finally, add the new enhanced H8-5 board that Norberto is now completing and suddenly you don’t need a disk system at all to do fun stuff with an H8. Don’t need much RAM either, as there’s no OS. Hopefully this will open the hobby to more people who don’t have functional disk systems. Also makes for a nice simple, reliable way to do demos at VCF and other events.

But we need to gather up some software to make this all be useful, and some of the earliest games and demos have been hard to track down. We may only have hard copy of some, as the earliest HUG volumes were published in print format.

My atoh (ABS to H8T) program lets us build software on a disk-based (HDOS) setup and run the program via the cassette download, but of course the source code must be free of any operating system calls.

I look forward to getting a more complete collection of interesting games and demos, and to documenting all of this. We can also write new programs as I’ve developed the steps to compile C programs to H8T executables.

If you’re interested make sure you’ve read my REMarks write up, which is my first attempt at capturing some of this knowledge…

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 4, 2022, at 9:43 PM, cole erskine <cers...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Glenn,

norberto.collado koyado.com

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Aug 5, 2022, 1:43:59 PM8/5/22
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I did try H8CHESS.H8T in my H8 system and nothing on either console... It looks broken so far.

Norberto

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Glenn Roberts <glenn.f...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 2:52 AM
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Subject: Re: [sebhc] Chess, anyone? Any more H8T format archives?ive
 

cole erskine

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Aug 5, 2022, 8:24:25 PM8/5/22
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Thank you for trying it, I see you’re an expert here so I feel better now!  ;-)

norberto.collado koyado.com

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Aug 5, 2022, 8:28:05 PM8/5/22
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No really! I'm just re-learning again. 

I depend a lot on this group's help and for their professional advice to keep me honest and on the right track.

As a team, a lot has been achieved.

Norby

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Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 5:24 PM
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Joseph Travis

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Aug 5, 2022, 10:04:05 PM8/5/22
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Here's a copy of H8CHESS.H8T that runs on my computer.  It uses the H8-5 serial port.  If running it on a H9 terminal, when the program prompts you with "BIG BOARD?" enter 0 (zero) and <RETURN> otherwise the board will be too big for the H9 display.  Enjoy!

Regards,
Joe Travis n6ypc
 

H8CHESS.H8T

norberto.collado koyado.com

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Aug 5, 2022, 10:42:13 PM8/5/22
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Thanks Joe, this one worked just fine.

 

Richard Davis Jr.

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Aug 6, 2022, 5:50:32 AM8/6/22
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All,

H8CHESS.H8T is working on my system.
Text comes out on H8-5 terminal port.

CHESS BY SOFTWARE SPECIALISTS - COPYRIGHT 1978
LEVEL OF PLAY (1-5)? 1
BIG BOARD? y
YOUR COLOR: WHITE (8), BLACK (0)? 0
PRESET BOARD? n
01  WH   KP -  K4

    -------------------------------------------------
80  ! *R  ! *N  ! *B  ! *Q  ! *K  ! *B  ! *N  ! *R  !
    -------------------------------------------------
70  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  !
    -------------------------------------------------
60  !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !
    -------------------------------------------------
50  !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !
    -------------------------------------------------
40  !     !     !     !     !  P  !     !     !     !
    -------------------------------------------------
30  !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !
    -------------------------------------------------
20  !  P  !  P  !  P  !  P  !     !  P  !  P  !  P  !
    -------------------------------------------------
10  !  R  !  N  !  B  !  Q  !  K  !  B  !  N  !  R  !
    -------------------------------------------------
       1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8

FROM SQUARE: 71
TO SQUARE: 51
01  BL  QRP - QR4
02  WH   QP -  Q4

    -------------------------------------------------
80  ! *R  ! *N  ! *B  ! *Q  ! *K  ! *B  ! *N  ! *R  !
    -------------------------------------------------
70  !     ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  ! *P  !
    -------------------------------------------------
60  !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !
    -------------------------------------------------
50  ! *P  !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !
    -------------------------------------------------
40  !     !     !     !  P  !  P  !     !     !     !
    -------------------------------------------------
30  !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !     !
    -------------------------------------------------
20  !  P  !  P  !  P  !     !     !  P  !  P  !  P  !
    -------------------------------------------------
10  !  R  !  N  !  B  !  Q  !  K  !  B  !  N  !  R  !
    -------------------------------------------------
       1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8

FROM SQUARE:
Rick


Glenn Roberts

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Aug 6, 2022, 10:41:57 AM8/6/22
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Great to know this works! Thx…

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 6, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Richard Davis Jr. <rickdav...@gmail.com> wrote:



image001.jpg

cole erskine

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Aug 6, 2022, 8:05:31 PM8/6/22
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Thank you, Joe! As Norberto and Rick have already noted, this version of H8CHESS.H8T that you uploaded works just fine. However,
it is NOT the same as the H8CHESS.H8T in tape-images.zip at https://sebhc.github.io/sebhc/software.html#Cassette_Tape_Images
File size and name are the same, but the one in the Heath tape archive is different than Joe's version and doesn't work.

Thanks, guys, for all the help! I'm using chess as my demo program for my H8 exhibit at VCF West this weekend in Mountain View!

-Cole

Richard Davis Jr.

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Aug 6, 2022, 8:09:40 PM8/6/22
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The version I used is from the tape images.zip. Is this the one you say doesn't work? 

Rick


Joseph Travis

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Aug 6, 2022, 8:44:17 PM8/6/22
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Cole,

Glad to help.  If you're over by the Commodore PETs, tell Chuck Hutchins "hello".

Joe


On Sat, Aug 6, 2022, 8:05 PM cole erskine <cers...@gmail.com> wrote:

cole erskine

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Aug 7, 2022, 9:39:38 AM8/7/22
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Yes. I'm also using an H8-5, but I do have a Z80 CPU. Could there be something that only allows that version to run on an 8080?

-Cole

Joseph Travis

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Aug 7, 2022, 11:18:04 AM8/7/22
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Cole,

There's no issue with the Z80 vs. 8080 in this instance. You probably had a bad copy of the program is all.

Joe


glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Aug 8, 2022, 8:04:22 AM8/8/22
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The version that Joe posted differs from the one on the github site but almost all the differences are in the first sector, which is probably the I/O front end.  I was guessing that perhaps the version from the github site was for the 8250 (H8-4) console but I was unable to get it to respond (I didn’t hook up the H9 but Cole already tried that).  I’ll take a closer look to see if I can  understand the difference.  If both are worth keeping we’ll have to give them different names of course.

 

I don’t’ know how good a chess game this is but its impressive that it fits in 6k…

 

From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Joseph Travis

cole erskine

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Aug 8, 2022, 12:20:03 PM8/8/22
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On Level 1, the computer moves very quickly but I checkmated it in six moves. On Level 2, it can take between 20-60 seconds per move, but the computer still only survives for 20+ moves.

I'm going to try to get MYCHESS running next. Written by David Kittinger (author of Chessmaster 2000), MyChess competed quite successfully in computer chess tournaments from '79 to '81.

-Cole

Joseph Travis

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Aug 8, 2022, 3:25:13 PM8/8/22
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MyChess is disk based (CP/M or HDOS), can be run in ASCII text or H19 graphics modes and would be difficult to play using a H9.  You are correct, it was very well regarded back in the day.


Glenn Roberts

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Aug 8, 2022, 4:12:52 PM8/8/22
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There’s also Sargon. We have source for that…

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 8, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Joseph Travis <jtravi...@gmail.com> wrote:



cole erskine

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Aug 8, 2022, 9:11:03 PM8/8/22
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I saw Rick’s post in January about his Sargon 8080 H8 port. Very impressive. 

-Cole 

glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Aug 9, 2022, 6:03:07 PM8/9/22
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Do I did do an analysis of the two H8CHESS programs, one being the one in our H8T collection on Github and the other being the one shared by Joe Travis.  We have determined that Joe’s version works but we have been unable to get the other copy to work.

 

They are both hard coded for the H8-5 (8251) console port (372Q/373Q).  They differ only in the console I/O drivers in the first 256 bytes.  The functions, and even much of the code is the same between the two versions, however the routines are in a different order in the good version.  The good version has some tweaks/fixes such as at the beginning of the USART set up code there is a DI instruction and at the end there is an EI (console input is interrupt-driven); also there is at least one other tweak to how the USART is initialized.  There may be other changes as I only did a visual comparison on the disassembled code.

 

My conclusion is that the one on the Github site is perhaps an early beta release or may never have worked reliably?  The one Joe shared is improved/debugged code and is the one to use.  Joe: any idea what the provenance is of this version?

 

I should be able to replace the site version with the good copy that Joe has provided.

 

The program was released in 1978 and written by “Software Specialists.”  I could find no reference to them in the Sextant magazine advertiser index, nor in Mark Garlanger’s list of vendors.  Perhaps a one-person and/or one-product operation or hobbyist ?

 

I guess I would trust Sargon to be perhaps a better chess player than this one…  or MYCHESS (but you’ll need HDOS) which is in Vol. 5 of Les’ archive

https://sebhc.github.io/sebhc/software/Applications/H8DCATALOG_VOL5.HTML

 

I would consider adapting Sargon to use the HA-8-3 graphics card as we have full source code plus I have a copy of Dan and Kathe Spracklen’s book which describe the code in detail…

 

Rick Davis mentioned (here) that years ago  he had adapted Sargon II for use with an 8080 (the original was Z80) and the H 8 front panel.  Rick? Is this code still around somewhere?...

 

I guess since we’re speaking of Chess there’s also the Turbo Pascal version, which has full source…

 

This is a case where running software from the H8T format (vs an OS-based program on HDOS or CP/M) has an advantage as the full memory space is available to the code. No pesky OS hogging the RAM!

 

And finally (sorry to ramble): Cole: how did your H8/H9 demo go at VCF west?

 

Ok really finally now (more rambling) this Computer History Museum interview with the Spracklens is interesting:

http://archive.computerhistory.org/projects/chess/related_materials/oral-history/spacklen.oral_history.2005.102630821/spracklen.oral_history_transcript.2005.102630821.pdf

 

 

 

  • Glenn

Joseph Travis

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Aug 9, 2022, 6:34:18 PM8/9/22
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Glenn - 

I have two zip files that I downloaded from the usual sources, but I'm not sure which one I'm using.  The first one is: h8.zip and the other is: tape-images.zip.  Both have many of the same programs however, there are some differences.  Unfortunately, gmail won't allow me to send these as attachments.

Joe



Tom Wilson

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Aug 18, 2022, 12:46:56 PM8/18/22
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Been looking for my Sargon book all week...
Tom
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sebhc/CABvWWgbNefe_xuaSuM9MKsN_B2u7TtMaUsWc-O8U4D%2B5xNjDFA%40mail.gmail.com.

--
Tom Wilson <><
Prineville Oregon
CHESS1.FOR
CHESS2.FOR
CHESS3.FOR
CHESS4.FOR

Glenn Roberts

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Aug 18, 2022, 1:50:53 PM8/18/22
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I have their book but I believe it’s for the original version. If we want to get something working it would be nice if it was Sargon II, if we could find it.  Not sure they ever published a book with the Sargon II listing??

 

Tom: what’s the story on the FORTRAN version you shared?  Have you gotten that to run on an H8/89?

 

From: <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tom Wilson <tomlan...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <se...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:46 PM
To: <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] Chess, anyone? Any more H8T format archives?ive

 

Been looking for my Sargon book all week...
Tom

cid:part1.O0eJx8g1.pZhXlH0n@gmail.com

Tom Wilson

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Aug 18, 2022, 1:56:37 PM8/18/22
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I will keep looking for the book

I have collected Fortran versions of chess over the years
I need to move them to my H8-2000 and try to compile them...
I am not sure my H8/H17 with two drives would have enough room

Tom

Richard Davis Jr.

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Aug 18, 2022, 2:15:28 PM8/18/22
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Tom,

I have been re-creating what I did 40+ years ago. I have the move code assembling under HDOS.
I am now implementing the code for user input and output using the H8 front-panel and keypad.
Slow going but, making progress. Can only work a couple to a few hours a day.
Once it runs under HDOS, I will be removing any HDOS code, mainly debug, and create an H8T file.

Rick



Richard Davis Jr.

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Sep 20, 2022, 9:17:24 AM9/20/22
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Attached is a functioning Sargon implementation for the H8 using the front-panel.
There is one strange artifact I can't figure out what is going on.
When Sargon is "thinking", I rotate through the six outer segments of a display digit.
For some reason, other segments flash on and then do off.

Attached zip includes an H8T file along with short instructions.
Feel free to provide feedback.

Rick

h8sargon.zip

Douglas Miller

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Sep 20, 2022, 9:28:38 AM9/20/22
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One possible explanation for the display misbehaving is that you need to disable the ROM monitor auto-update of the display if you are controlling it in your program. That may be what's going on.

Richard Davis Jr.

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Sep 20, 2022, 9:46:03 AM9/20/22
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Douglas,

I think I am doing that. I set bit 1 of the mflag memory location.
All of the other messages seem to be OK.

Rick


glenn.f...@gmail.com

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Sep 20, 2022, 8:37:45 PM9/20/22