TPU tubes and other silly questions

[Ronald Long]

Wonder if any of you are using them, and what your opinion is. 

I made a half hearted attempt to go tubeless, and it never quite took for me and TPU seems to be the "new shiny object"

Ridwell is taking old tubes this week, so I'm motivated to get rid of all the loose tubes that "might be okay", and actually install theTPU tubes that I've bought in tires to see what they're like.

And... while I'm asking silly questions... I still have a hard time spending much over $50 for a bike tire. Is it worth it, and, in particular, are Rene Herse tires as wonderful as they claim?

(I'd be looking at the Bon Jon (700x35), maybe the Barlow (700x38).

And more silly questions. My newest (used) bike came with carbon wheels. I've only done a little bit of riding on it, but it sure feels faster. Are they really noticeably faster? Even at my plodding 18-25kph?

thanks!

ronald

[Mark Thomas]

FWIW, I use carbon wheels with TPU tubes installed in Continental GP5000 tires that cost more than $50. Works for me. 

Mark

On May 25, 2026, at 12:21 PM, Ronald Long <ronal...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bill Gobie]

I looked into TPU tubes recently. According to https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/tpu-inner-tubes you might expect to save around 2 watts per wheel if you can ride 18 mph. That would mostly make up for driving a SON dynohub. If you can go 18 mph. It ain't nothing but it also ain't miraculous. Improved puncture resistance and ability to use a TPU-specific sealant is interesting. But you can get sealants for butyl tubes which would be a less expensive way to experiment with sealant without going tubeless.

Tubeless is a black art. It works well for me now I am past the novice stage. Rene Herse seems to have improved their tires' fit in the last several years. The tires seat more easily. The accumulated crud on my fenders shows I have avoided a number of flats.

I think RH tires are pretty good. Gravel tubeless (wider tires, modest pressures, with tubeless rims) seems pretty dependable. The softer ride is nice on a recumbent.

Bill

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[Kevin Williams]

Well now, isn't this a timely discussion! I have been considering these exact topics lately: TPU tubes and carbon wheels. For the tubes, I would trade weight for reliability, can anyone recommend a brand? Also with carbon wheels, I have no experience with them, but I always hear great things. I currently ride 32h DT Swiss 411 wheels and the thought of those low spoke counts on the carbon wheels make me nervous. But maybe that's unjustified? I see "Clydesdale" builds that are 28h, maybe a 28/28 wheelset is good for long distance self-supported riding....maybe even a bit overkill? Hard to say with no experience. What carbon wheels are other randos running out there?!

--Kevin W.

[Jason Hansen]

I was dubious of carbon wheels for many years.  Last season, I switched to Reserve 34|37.  The only problem is that now I want to get a pair for all of my bicycles.  They ticked all the boxes for my concerns with regard to weight, durability, and convenience.  Reserve still does hooks, and though the spoke count is 24, I haven't had any issues with the durability.  XL casing means an easy tire change and re-seat.  With an electric pump, it seems like it can't get easier.  I still carry a Topeak as a backup, but the CYCPLUS AS2 has enough capacity that I haven't had to touch the backup yet.  I know many people loathe any of the Panaracer tires.  I have had many years of riding them without issue.

@210 lbs. The sweetspot for me has been Bon Jon XL casing and TPU tubes.  I have run Stampede Pass, but I'm a bit on the heavy side for 32mm.

I'm sure you will find proponents of all solutions.  The trick is to identify what you value and the costs you are willing to pay.

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[Mick Walsh]

Kevin,

I’ve been riding winspace wheels since 2019, I am still riding the first pair I owned and I have 2 PBPs on them. I have 2 pairs 

They are also a lot cheaper than the “trendy” brands.

I have the Hyper D45

Best Regards,

Mick

On May 25, 2026, at 6:29 PM, Kevin Williams <kws...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Robert Hendry]

Two things to keep in mind here:

1. Tubes and rims are "rotational weight" on a bicycle. Because these parts must both move forward and spin, a gram saved here requires less energy to accelerate than a gram on the frame, so lighter wheels feel more responsive.
2. Most wheels won't fail if you break one spoke - even on 16-spoke wheels. I broke one once on a set of Reynolds wheels doing the State Time Trial in Tennessee - all of a sudden I had that dreaded "shush-shush" of the rim rubbing the pad (this was 10 years ago, before racing went to disk brakes). I had to reach down and open the brake up, but still won the race. For ultracycling, just carry a FiberFix.

[Mark Thomas]

Agree. I rode 1000km of a 1400km brevet last year with a broken spoke on 24-spoke carbon wheels. Rough pavement and potholes gave the rider anxiety but gave the wheel no trouble. I wouldn’t let low spoke count deter from choosing carbon wheels.

Mark

[Travis Roberts]

I think tires, rims and aero bars are the top of the list of speed upgrades no matter how fast or slow you are. In my opinion, a good low rolling resistance tire is absolutely worth the extra money over a middle of the road tire. Also, I love tubeless but you have to know what factors make it work well, namely low pressures and a little extra rubber (casing thickness). It can be a pain to set up, but I think it takes care of a lot of punctures that I never notice or have to stop and deal with. For me, it makes for a more robust tire setup. I usually run the Continental GP5000 S TR tires in either 32mm or 35mm, and I rarely have flats and am willing to accept the slightly decreased puncture resistance for the super low rolling resistance. If you want a little more rubber and puncture resistance without introducing too much extra rolling resistance the GP5000 AS TR in 35mm is a great choice, as are the Pirelli P Zero TLR Speedcore in 35mm and 40mm. Wider tires help you run the lower pressures needed to make tubeless seal reliably. Small people can get away with lower pressures than larger people for a given tire size and I don't think that ever really gets discussed much in the cycling media when talking about tire recommendations.  What works for the 150 lbs pro riders doesn't work for a 195 lbs guy like me! The bigger you are, the more you will appreciate a nice fat tire. Modern carbon rims are also getting wider internally and that also helps out with tire size and volume. My 32mm tires measure at 34.5 mm wide on my 25mm internal rims. Make sure to use a tire pressure calculator to get your pressure in the right ball park!

Carbon rims are awesome and I think a deep section rim makes a noticeable speed difference starting around the 16-18 mph and just becomes even more evident as you go faster. But to be clear, I think they make you faster no matter what speed you are going it is just easier to tell a difference as you get faster. Just make sure you reasonably match tire width to rim outer width. My current rims are the Light Bicycle Turbos with 24 spokes. Never broken a spoke even when I weighed 205 lbs. Nextie and Light Bicycle both make some nice deep rims that are 32 mm wide internally and 40mm wide externally that I think would make great aerodynamic wheels for fat randonneuring tires. I have a 32 spoke Son dynamo that I intend to lace up to some of the 55mm deep Nextie SGX gravel rims and run a 35 or 40 mm tire on sometime in the near future. Hopefully it will be a wonderful crossroads of fast, comfortable,  and reliable.

- Travis Roberts

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[don person]

I see setting tire pressure relative to rider and bike weight written about often.

It is easy to find a starting point using one of the many tire pressure apps available which account for tire size, system weight, surface type, tubeless or not and maybe a few other variables. 

Search for apps from Silca, Wolftooth (both of these are highly regarded), many tires companies and a whole bunch of independent programmers. 

shiggy Don Person
Dead Center WA

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[Dave Thompson]

I was with Mark on that ride and can speak to the anxiety. I had to keep a close eye on my wheel which would have matched 🤣

Since I switched to wider rims from Hunt last year and ride on tubed Conti 32 5000’s at 60 psi, I haven’t had a flat … but now I’ve jinxed myself!

Dave. 

From my iwdt

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[Jeff Loomis]

On Mon, May 25, 2026 at 6:29 PM Kevin Williams <kws...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well now, isn't this a timely discussion! I have been considering these exact topics lately: TPU tubes and carbon wheels. For the tubes, I would trade weight for reliability, can anyone recommend a brand? Also with carbon wheels, I have no experience with them, but I always hear great things. I currently ride 32h DT Swiss 411 wheels and the thought of those low spoke counts on the carbon wheels make me nervous. But maybe that's unjustified? I see "Clydesdale" builds that are 28h, maybe a 28/28 wheelset is good for long distance self-supported riding....maybe even a bit overkill? Hard to say with no experience. What carbon wheels are other randos running out there?!

If you have plenty of money for carbon wheels and you think they would be cool, why not go for it?  If money is a factor, you can learn a little physics to calculate approximately how much (or little) you will gain from switching to carbon wheels.  There is also a real placebo effect to be had from riding something you know is awesome because you spent a lot of money on it.  I think this applies to any hobby where you can spend increasing money for diminishing returns.  Don't discount the awesome (or annoying) whooshing sound from the reverberation of deep-dish carbon rims. 

[Rob Hawks]

I'm wondering if anyone can express the 'fewer flats' percentages one experiences with :

going from conventional tubes to tubeless

going from tubeless to TPU (if I understand correctly that there is a further drop off in frequency of flats)

My own experience is that in > 12,000 miles I've had to plug a tubeless tire 3 times. Aside from those 3 plugs, I have not had tire issues that caused me to have to stop the ride to deal with that. In that same mileage span on conventional tubed tires I suspect I would have had to fix maybe 15 flats. Not sure because I don't keep track, but I do get more flats than others I ride with I feel. Would I experience any improvement going to TPU tubes over tubeless?

For what it's worth, I don't mind any time spent in my shop doing tire related tasks. Given where I am at in life (retired) I don't have other pressing things that tire maintenance would take me away from.

rob hawks

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[Jeff Loomis]

IMO the sample size from a single rider is too low to draw conclusions.  Also the flat rate is highly variable based on the particular tires you use.  My experience since switching to tubeless is similar to yours.  When I started doing randoneuring rides over 20 years ago I was using middling-tough tires like Paselas and Gatorskins.  I would get a flat every 500 miles or so.  Later I learned of the virtues of tires with less flat protection and switched to tires like Grand Bois and Compass.  I liked the ride but flat rate increased maybe 2x and multi-flat 200k rides became more common.  I switched to tubeless once I started riding wider 42mm tires because the lower pressures are ideal for tubeless.  I have found this extremely effective.  Unfortunately I'm not great with tracking miles but probably around 15-20k miles on tubeless and I I have had to stop, wait for seal, and pump a couple of times.  I think 3 times I have used a dynaplug and pumped, one time refilling with sealant.  All stops were shorter in length than fixing a tubed flat.  I am confident I would have had to fix ~50 flats during that time with tubes.  I can use RH ultraliight tires on my rando bike and do not worry at all about flats.

On our tandem I use slightly tougher tires (G-One Speed) that are fat enough to run at 45PSI on a tandem and rock solid tubeless with the rims we have.  Since switching to tubeless 6 years ago we have experienced ZERO flats.  We used to run Rene Herse standard tires with tubes and flatted constantly.  But, once again, we switched to tougher tires at the same time we switched to tubeless it's not really a great experiment.  I'm just happy with the current situation even though I'm sure the tires are slightly slower than the RH tires with tubes.

 

I do spend time at home fiddling with topping up sealant, unclogging valve cores, and at least once unmounting tires and cleaning out an entire tube formed of sealant inside the tire that was preventing proper inflation.  These problems get worse the more bikes you have and the less time you spend riding each one.  I'm still happy enough with tubeless and sealant that I haven't been even slightly curious about TPU tubes.  All the cool kids and fast riders are using them and I'm sure they aren't wrong, but I'm good.

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[Sora Kim]

I’ve used 650b Rene Herse TPU tubes with Grand Bois Lierre 36 mm tires for half a season and switched back to tubeless. On a 200K-300K distance, I would at least get one flat. I tried the RH TPU sealant inside the tube and it would only ever slow the leak, not stop it. In my experience, despite what Jan Heine has written for his RH journal, I think TPU tubes are more fragile than standard butyl tubes (Schwalbe for me). Ride feel was nice, but not worth the loss in time for a slower rider like me. Will gladly deal with cleaning out my tires and keeping an eye on old sealant clumps (can really make a wheel wobble!), even if sealant dries out faster for a rim brake wheel. 

 

Sora 

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[Vincent Sikorski]

I was an early adopter of road tubeless. Had converted the mountain bike as soon as tubeless came out and appreciated the value of running lower pressure without fear of snakebite flats. PBP 2011, 2015 and 2019 and 2023  were on tubeless and all the brevets between. No flat in tens of thousands of miles on my single road bike. Have see evidence that sealant had worked. Over the past decades I only had to put a tube in my mountain bike once (sidewall cut) and once on our road tandem (forgot the Dynaplug and the hole was too big to seal). I have had to use a Dynaplug a couple of times over the years when puncture too big to seal (gravel & mountain bike). Really fast to stick the plug in the hole and pump up the tire, much faster than installing a tube. Decided to try TPU tubes in our road tandem since tubeless maintenance is a big hassle. Since the beginning of this year I’ve had 2 flats with a TPU tube. Different tires, so wasn’t something imbedded in the tire that caused both. Maybe I am an outlier, but TPU tubes seem a bit over-hyped. Maybe they offer lower rolling resistance, but seem no better than regular tubes for puncture resistance. I think tubeless is still the standard for flat prevention.

Vince Sikorski

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[don person]

Vince, I have also had two flats with TPU tubes, both not punctures.

One was a leak where the tube was bonded together.

The other happened before my third ride on it after it had sat all winter (inflated). Rode it for two months last fall.

A slow leak around the bond between tube and valve stem.

I had already purchased RH TPU tubes after the first flat, specifically because they are sonically welded and the mechanical connection of the valve, plus the removable valve core to be able to use sealant. 

So far, so good. 

I still run tubeless in other tires/rims and carry TPU tubes as spares

shiggy Don Person
Dead Center WA

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[Steve Ciccarelli]

Very interesting discussion, y'all.  Thanks for the tips, hints, data and links.  I'd been wondering just how inefficient my current setup is and now I have some numbers. Thanks also to Claude for running and explaining the numbers.

Current baseline:  Stock low end Specialized Roubaix, stock aluminum "aero-ish" alloy rims, Conti GP all season tires with slime tubes. Ancient SPD pedals handed down from many prior bikes. Until this week, my only performance upgrade of note was aerobars.  

According to the numbers, upgrading to GP 5000 S TR tubeless would be one of two big wins. Carbon aero wheels are a distant second, but the overall watts saved (or applied to moving faster) is around 18 watts, 15 of which are from reduced rolling resistance eliminating the slime tubes.  Another area which I recently upgraded was SPD pedals and shoes (15-20 years old, so bearings were likely in bad shape) to SPD-SL's. Markedly improved feel already in the few rides I've done, but I asked for an estimate and the ballpark is around 10 watts.  I asked Claude to factor in the increased wind resistance at the speeds I'm riding and gave it data for the last few permanents as well as the 400k brevet and translate this into a speed difference based on my average watts.  The answer's around 2kph. 

Looks like I need to have a conversation with the budget and finance committee about forthcoming upgrades.  Good thing I swap tires and tubes every February as a rule.

I still detest flats and will go to great lengths to avoid them, so I'm thinking I'll religiously swap the tires with the annual bike overhaul anyway.  With my current regimen (slime tubes + bullet proof tires, swapping tubes yearly and tires every other), I haven't flatted in about 20,000 miles. I'd like to sustain that streak.

Steve

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[Rob Hawks]

I'm following this thread today while on a ride from flat tire hell. Conventional tubes

2 flats

1 spare tube

Missing patch kit

3.5 mile walk to a bike shop

Rob

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[Bill Gobie]

15 watts from eliminating Slime is enough to notice. I'd like to know why "Claude" thinks changing pedal systems gains 10 watts.

SPD-SL connects you very solidly and stably to the pedals. Unrivaled, in my experience. If you need the shoe-pedal interface to help with alignment SPD-SL and other road systems are better than mountain systems. Step in sticky sand or dirt, though, and you may have a hell of time getting back in the pedals. And it will happen at night, too, when you can't exactly see what is on the cleats. The rubber tips on the walking points wear away quickly. Cons come with the pros.

Bill

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[Steve Ciccarelli]

Bill, It was an attempt to quantify my Shimano 535s (purchased on or about the release date of Windows 95 - not an exaggeration) and the effect of worn, 30 year old bearings vs new pedals/technology, combined with the efficiency gains of SPD-SL vs SPD.  It's not a precise figure, but these pedals are definitely "past their prime".

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[Roberts, Mark]

Steve,

 

You are on the right track.

 

Forgetting the numbers for a minute, the best and most efficient place to pick up gains is in rotating weight – that means tires, tubes, wheels initially.

 

The next step is to address is contact points, e.g., handlebars (consider more comfortable fit, carbon, probably lighter), saddle, pedals.  If you haven’t done so already, you could/should get a professional bike fit, to make you not only more comfortable but more efficient.

 

Then you could take a look at your frame, or bike overall.

 

 

 

 

Mark W. Roberts

K&L GATES LLP
925 Fourth Avenue
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[Steve Ciccarelli]

Mark,

Thanks for this.  What struck me with the analysis of the numbers was factors I wasn't aware of - or hadn't paid much attention to - specifically rolling resistance and vertical deflection. Sure, "everyone knows" that riding on chip seal is slower than smooth pavement, but I'd never drilled down and looked at quantifying or why.  Rolling weight, it turns out, is far less critical than the amount of watts I'm putting into deforming the tire in the first place and whether the tire is absorbing the vertical deflection caused by rough road surfaces. I'd also never even heard of impedance loss (bike + rider being deflected upward due to surface irregularities).  Sure, I'd felt this for 50 years, but it never dawned on me that this was sucking energy from forward motion and how this explains that bald, skinny, high pressure tires on real roads can be outperformed by wider, lower pressure tires that absorb that vertical deflection and allow the wheel/frame/rider to continue to move forward with minimal deflection.

This totally explains the chip seal shoulder phenomenon.  Side note: bicyclerollingresistance.com needs to up their game and replace that drum with one that's rougher and more irregular and add vertical deflection measurement to their overall calculations.  Their results are suspect! 😁

I'm never going to be at the front of any pack, but I do like to be efficient and as quick as comfortably possible.  If a $200 upgrade to tires can make my power to forward motion transfer 8% more efficient, I'm all for that.  Way cheaper than $2000 on carbon rims with 1/5th the impact to efficiency.

Over time, sure, I'll probably engage in a "perfect bike" build project, but for now it's all good.  Saddle and fit and all that are fairly well dialed in.

Now watch me eat those words on this weekend's BC 600k! 🤣 A whopping 6 people registered and zero support, so success is going to be 100% dependent on preparation and discipline. SIR's 600 the weekend after sounds way better, but I have a conflict.

Steve

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[don person]

Steve, tires are definitely the best value for increasing efficiency.

I always take BRR results with a grain of salt. I don’t ride on a small diameter metal drum with the wheel in a rigidity fix position.

This guy does real-world testing with mostly gravel and mtb tires, on various surfaces 

https://www.johnkarrasch.com

shiggy Don Person
Dead Center WA

[Kevin Smith]

This has been quite the discussion thread and very interesting to follow.  One area of randonneuring that I think gets overlooked is 'mental efficiency'.  We can sweat all these details about watts and aero this/that, but for me, the muscle between the ears is a bigger influence on ride success. When mentally fatigued, I can waste a heck of a lot of watt savings by messing around while stopped or off the bike.

Kevin 

[Kevin J. Williams]

Such a wealth of knowledge and wisdom here. I am so grateful for everyone who chimed into this discussion. Thank you all for your insight!

--Kevin W.

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[don person]

To follow up with Kevin’s “mental efficiency” thoughts, I prioritize confidence in my setup (all of it) and comfort. The former is peace of mind, and comfortable is fast

shiggy Don Person
Dead Center WA

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