Fwd: Srila Prabhupada on his disciples becoming guru
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Radhika Gopinath Das
Mar 22, 2013, 4:23:25 PM3/22/13
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From: bhakti.vikasa.swami <bhakti.vi...@pamho.net>
Date: Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 4:37 PM
Subject: Srila Prabhupada on his disciples becoming guru
To: radhikagopinathdas <radhikago...@gmail.com>
Prabhupada: The tendency for becoming guru is there. But after all, every
one of you should become guru. But why immature attempt? That is my
question. Everyone will become guru when he is expert disciple, but why this
immature attempt? Guru is not a thing, imitation. When one is mature, he
becomes guru automatically. What is the answer to this, their making some
attempt to become guru? I am training you all to become guru in the future.
Now the Krsna consciousness movement, the properties and everything, I will
not take with me. They will remain where they are. It requires very mature
treatment. But there has been some attempt to become guru immediately. Am I
correct or not? Hm? We are also acting as guru. My other Godbrothers, they
are also doing that. But we never attempted during the lifetime of our Guru
Maharaja. That is not the etiquette. It is an immature attempt. And it is
not the thing that by artificial attempt one becomes guru. Guru is accepted
by etiquette, not by artificial attempt. Amara ajnaya guru hana [Cc. Madhya
7.128]: "Follow My order and become guru." Not that you become guru.
amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa
yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna'-upadesa
[Cc. Madhya 7.128]
Hmm? You have to follow the paramparasystem, order. That is guru. Not that I
declare myself as guru. No. That is not guru. Guru is he who has strictly
followed the order of the spiritual master. He can become guru. Otherwise it
will be spoilt. Artificial attempt is not good. [pause] Yasya prasadad
bhagavat-prasado [Sri Sri Gurv-astaka 8] -- we are singing daily, hundred
times. Guru means kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya [Sri Sri Gurv-astaka
7]. Do you understand all these lines? You sing daily, thrice. Do you
understand the meaning of these words? Can anyone explain?
Devotee (3): Kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya -- "The spiritual master is
very dear to Krsna."
Prabhupada: Yes. First of all one has to become very dear to Krsna, then
automatically he becomes guru. And when one becomes very dear to Krsna, then
he becomes guru, and by the mercy of such guru Krsna becomes merciful. These
are the statements of the sastra. Ar na koriho asa. What is that,
guru-mukha-padma-vakya?
Devotee (3):
guru-mukha-padma-vakya,
cittete koriya aikya
ar na koriho mane asa
[Sri-guru-vandana]
Prabhupada: Ar na koriho mane asa. Simply whatever you hear from the guru,
try to execute it. Ar na koriho mane asa. Do not expect anything more. So
whatever we are chanting, we are reading, we must realize that. The Gaudiya
Matha institution became a failure on account of disobedience and not
following the orders. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura's statement about the
verse vyavasayatmika buddhir -- find out this verse from the Bhagavad-gita.
The Caitanya-caritamrta statement, amara: one can become guru by the
superior order.
Devotee (3): Shall I read it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (3):
vyavasayatmika buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-sakha hy anantas ca
buddhayo 'vyavasayinam
[Bg. 2.41]
"Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, and their aim is one. O
beloved child of the Kurus, the intelligence of those who are irresolved is
many-branched."
Prabhupada: And the purport?
Devotee (3): "A strong faith in Krsna consciousness that one should be
elevated to the highest perfection of life is called vyavasayatmika
intelligence. The Caitanya-caritamrta states:
'sraddha'-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya
krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya
[Cc. Madhya 22.62]
"Faith means unflinching trust in something sublime. When one is engaged in
the duties of Krsna consciousness, he need not act in relationship to the
material world, with obligations to family traditions, humanity or
nationality. Fruitive activities are the engagements of one's reaction from
past good or bad deeds. When one is awake in Krsna consciousness, he need no
longer endeavor for good results in his activities. When one is situated in
Krsna consciousness, all activities are on the absolute plane, for they are
no longer subject to dualities like ‘good' and ‘bad.' The highest perfection
of Krsna consciousness is renunciation of the material conception of life.
This state is automatically achieved by progressive Krsna consciousness. The
resolute purpose of a person in Krsna consciousness is based on knowledge
[vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah] [Bg. 7.19] by which one comes
to know perfectly that Vasudeva, or Krsna, is the root of all manifested
causes. As water on the root of a tree is automatically distributed to the
leaves and branches, in Krsna consciousness one can render the highest
service to everyone -- namely self, family, society, country, humanity, etc.
If Krsna is satisfied by one's actions, then everyone will be satisfied.
"Service in Krsna consciousness is, however, best practiced under the able
guidance of a spiritual master who is a bona fide representative of Krsna,
who knows the nature of the student and who can guide him to act in Krsna
consciousness. As such, to be well versed in Krsna consciousness one has to
act firmly and obey the representative of Krsna, and one should accept the
instructions of the bona fide spiritual master as one's mission in life.
Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura instructs us, in his famous prayers for the
spiritual master, as follows:
yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado
yasyaprasadanna gatih kuto 'pi
dhyayam stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam
vande gurohsri-caranaravindam
[Sri Sri Gurv-astaka 8]
"‘By satisfaction of the spiritual master, the Supreme Personality of
Godhead becomes satisfied. And by not satisfying the spiritual master, there
is no chance of being promoted to the plane of Krsna consciousness. I
should, therefore, meditate and pray for his mercy three times a day, and
offer my respectful obeisances unto him, my spiritual master.'
"The whole process, however, depends on perfect knowledge of the soul beyond
the conception of the body -- not theoretically, but practically, when there
is no longer chance for sense gratification manifested in fruitive
activities. When one is not firmly fixed in mind... One who is not firmly
fixed in mind is diverted by various types of fruitive activities."
Prabhupada: These artificial attempts to become guru is not the platform of
guru. Do you all realize this now? Hm?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupada: Just like this Bal Yogi Guru Maharaja. That kind of Guru
Maharaja anyone can become; it is not very difficult. But really guru is not
like that. That is evam parampara viduh. Evam parampara...Eh?
Devotees:
evam parampara-praptam
imam rajarsayo viduh
[Bg. 4.2]
Prabhupada: Imam rajarsayo viduh. Through the parampara. Hmm? Imam vivasvate
yoga proktavan aham [Bg. 4.1]. So the training period to attempt to become
guru, that is not very good etiquette. That is artificial. At least
officially during the lifetime of guru, nobody should attempt like that. The
disciple should always remain as perfectly subordinate and be disciplined.
Disciple means one who is being disciplined. That is disciple. Just like
Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He is God, Krsna; still He said, guru more murkha
dekhi' karila sasana [Cc. Adi 7.71]: "My guru, seeing Me a fool number one,
he has chastised Me." Now who can chastise Krsna, Caitanya Mahaprabhu? But
that is the way of disciplic succession. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, guru more
murkha dekhi. Who can be guru of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and who is actually
His guru who will say Caitanya Mahaprabhu is a fool? But He said that guru
more murkha dekhi' karila sasana: "My Guru Maharaja found Me a fool number
one, and therefore he has chastised Me." This is the position of disciple.
So one who is always prepared to be chastised by guru, he is eligible to
become guru.
So these attempts are being done, just like Gaurasundara told, that "Why
should I live under the subjugation of these people? Let me go away, become
a guru." Similarly Sudama. This attempt will not be successful, but there is
some attempt like that. What can be done? Such attempt will never be
successful, but there are some attempts like that. [break] What is your
answer?
Gopala Krsna: I think that everybody should resolve not to do it in any form
at all. I have heard similar... I have heard this type of complaint from
other places also, where some other devotees have tried to call themselves
some type of a guru. Whenever I heard that, I have been very disturbed.
Devotee (2): Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is desiring to be lower than the straw
in the street.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Devotee (2): Caitanya Mahaprabhu is desiring to be lower than the straw in
the street. So for him to desire to be guru, that is not in line with
Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Gopala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, I am just trying to clarify -- I don't want
to offend anyone -- but no disciple of yours should call himself diksa-guru
or siksa-guru. Am I right?
Prabhupada: Well, everyone is engaged to become siksa-guru, but one should
become perfect. The attempt is -- what is called? -- probationer. When
probationer period is finished, then he is naturally, automatically, bona
fide guru. Not in the probationer period. That is immature attempt. That
will failure. Amara ajnaya [Cc. Madhya 7.128], Caitanya Mahaprabhu said:
"By My order." So all my disciples are expected to become siksa-guru on my
order, not by his own order. That is meaning I am giving sannyasa, I am
sending you to different places, so this means that you have to carry out
the order of the guru very strictly; then you become mature. Otherwise it
will be artificial attempt, and that kind of guru will not help.
From a Room Conversation
-
May 30, 1976, Hawaii
--
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From: bhakti.vikasa.swami <bhakti.vi...@pamho.net>
Date: Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 4:37 PM
Subject: Srila Prabhupada on his disciples becoming guru
To: radhikagopinathdas <radhikago...@gmail.com>
Prabhupada: The tendency for becoming guru is there. But after all, every
one of you should become guru. But why immature attempt? That is my
question. Everyone will become guru when he is expert disciple, but why this
immature attempt? Guru is not a thing, imitation. When one is mature, he
becomes guru automatically. What is the answer to this, their making some
attempt to become guru? I am training you all to become guru in the future.
Now the Krsna consciousness movement, the properties and everything, I will
not take with me. They will remain where they are. It requires very mature
treatment. But there has been some attempt to become guru immediately. Am I
correct or not? Hm? We are also acting as guru. My other Godbrothers, they
are also doing that. But we never attempted during the lifetime of our Guru
Maharaja. That is not the etiquette. It is an immature attempt. And it is
not the thing that by artificial attempt one becomes guru. Guru is accepted
by etiquette, not by artificial attempt. Amara ajnaya guru hana [Cc. Madhya
7.128]: "Follow My order and become guru." Not that you become guru.
amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa
yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna'-upadesa
[Cc. Madhya 7.128]
Hmm? You have to follow the paramparasystem, order. That is guru. Not that I
declare myself as guru. No. That is not guru. Guru is he who has strictly
followed the order of the spiritual master. He can become guru. Otherwise it
will be spoilt. Artificial attempt is not good. [pause] Yasya prasadad
bhagavat-prasado [Sri Sri Gurv-astaka 8] -- we are singing daily, hundred
times. Guru means kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya [Sri Sri Gurv-astaka
7]. Do you understand all these lines? You sing daily, thrice. Do you
understand the meaning of these words? Can anyone explain?
Devotee (3): Kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya -- "The spiritual master is
very dear to Krsna."
Prabhupada: Yes. First of all one has to become very dear to Krsna, then
automatically he becomes guru. And when one becomes very dear to Krsna, then
he becomes guru, and by the mercy of such guru Krsna becomes merciful. These
are the statements of the sastra. Ar na koriho asa. What is that,
guru-mukha-padma-vakya?
Devotee (3):
guru-mukha-padma-vakya,
cittete koriya aikya
ar na koriho mane asa
[Sri-guru-vandana]
Prabhupada: Ar na koriho mane asa. Simply whatever you hear from the guru,
try to execute it. Ar na koriho mane asa. Do not expect anything more. So
whatever we are chanting, we are reading, we must realize that. The Gaudiya
Matha institution became a failure on account of disobedience and not
following the orders. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura's statement about the
verse vyavasayatmika buddhir -- find out this verse from the Bhagavad-gita.
The Caitanya-caritamrta statement, amara: one can become guru by the
superior order.
Devotee (3): Shall I read it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (3):
vyavasayatmika buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-sakha hy anantas ca
buddhayo 'vyavasayinam
[Bg. 2.41]
"Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, and their aim is one. O
beloved child of the Kurus, the intelligence of those who are irresolved is
many-branched."
Prabhupada: And the purport?
Devotee (3): "A strong faith in Krsna consciousness that one should be
elevated to the highest perfection of life is called vyavasayatmika
intelligence. The Caitanya-caritamrta states:
'sraddha'-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya
krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya
[Cc. Madhya 22.62]
"Faith means unflinching trust in something sublime. When one is engaged in
the duties of Krsna consciousness, he need not act in relationship to the
material world, with obligations to family traditions, humanity or
nationality. Fruitive activities are the engagements of one's reaction from
past good or bad deeds. When one is awake in Krsna consciousness, he need no
longer endeavor for good results in his activities. When one is situated in
Krsna consciousness, all activities are on the absolute plane, for they are
no longer subject to dualities like ‘good' and ‘bad.' The highest perfection
of Krsna consciousness is renunciation of the material conception of life.
This state is automatically achieved by progressive Krsna consciousness. The
resolute purpose of a person in Krsna consciousness is based on knowledge
[vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah] [Bg. 7.19] by which one comes
to know perfectly that Vasudeva, or Krsna, is the root of all manifested
causes. As water on the root of a tree is automatically distributed to the
leaves and branches, in Krsna consciousness one can render the highest
service to everyone -- namely self, family, society, country, humanity, etc.
If Krsna is satisfied by one's actions, then everyone will be satisfied.
"Service in Krsna consciousness is, however, best practiced under the able
guidance of a spiritual master who is a bona fide representative of Krsna,
who knows the nature of the student and who can guide him to act in Krsna
consciousness. As such, to be well versed in Krsna consciousness one has to
act firmly and obey the representative of Krsna, and one should accept the
instructions of the bona fide spiritual master as one's mission in life.
Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura instructs us, in his famous prayers for the
spiritual master, as follows:
yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado
yasyaprasadanna gatih kuto 'pi
dhyayam stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam
vande gurohsri-caranaravindam
[Sri Sri Gurv-astaka 8]
"‘By satisfaction of the spiritual master, the Supreme Personality of
Godhead becomes satisfied. And by not satisfying the spiritual master, there
is no chance of being promoted to the plane of Krsna consciousness. I
should, therefore, meditate and pray for his mercy three times a day, and
offer my respectful obeisances unto him, my spiritual master.'
"The whole process, however, depends on perfect knowledge of the soul beyond
the conception of the body -- not theoretically, but practically, when there
is no longer chance for sense gratification manifested in fruitive
activities. When one is not firmly fixed in mind... One who is not firmly
fixed in mind is diverted by various types of fruitive activities."
Prabhupada: These artificial attempts to become guru is not the platform of
guru. Do you all realize this now? Hm?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupada: Just like this Bal Yogi Guru Maharaja. That kind of Guru
Maharaja anyone can become; it is not very difficult. But really guru is not
like that. That is evam parampara viduh. Evam parampara...Eh?
Devotees:
evam parampara-praptam
imam rajarsayo viduh
[Bg. 4.2]
Prabhupada: Imam rajarsayo viduh. Through the parampara. Hmm? Imam vivasvate
yoga proktavan aham [Bg. 4.1]. So the training period to attempt to become
guru, that is not very good etiquette. That is artificial. At least
officially during the lifetime of guru, nobody should attempt like that. The
disciple should always remain as perfectly subordinate and be disciplined.
Disciple means one who is being disciplined. That is disciple. Just like
Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He is God, Krsna; still He said, guru more murkha
dekhi' karila sasana [Cc. Adi 7.71]: "My guru, seeing Me a fool number one,
he has chastised Me." Now who can chastise Krsna, Caitanya Mahaprabhu? But
that is the way of disciplic succession. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, guru more
murkha dekhi. Who can be guru of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and who is actually
His guru who will say Caitanya Mahaprabhu is a fool? But He said that guru
more murkha dekhi' karila sasana: "My Guru Maharaja found Me a fool number
one, and therefore he has chastised Me." This is the position of disciple.
So one who is always prepared to be chastised by guru, he is eligible to
become guru.
So these attempts are being done, just like Gaurasundara told, that "Why
should I live under the subjugation of these people? Let me go away, become
a guru." Similarly Sudama. This attempt will not be successful, but there is
some attempt like that. What can be done? Such attempt will never be
successful, but there are some attempts like that. [break] What is your
answer?
Gopala Krsna: I think that everybody should resolve not to do it in any form
at all. I have heard similar... I have heard this type of complaint from
other places also, where some other devotees have tried to call themselves
some type of a guru. Whenever I heard that, I have been very disturbed.
Devotee (2): Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is desiring to be lower than the straw
in the street.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Devotee (2): Caitanya Mahaprabhu is desiring to be lower than the straw in
the street. So for him to desire to be guru, that is not in line with
Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Gopala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, I am just trying to clarify -- I don't want
to offend anyone -- but no disciple of yours should call himself diksa-guru
or siksa-guru. Am I right?
Prabhupada: Well, everyone is engaged to become siksa-guru, but one should
become perfect. The attempt is -- what is called? -- probationer. When
probationer period is finished, then he is naturally, automatically, bona
fide guru. Not in the probationer period. That is immature attempt. That
will failure. Amara ajnaya [Cc. Madhya 7.128], Caitanya Mahaprabhu said:
"By My order." So all my disciples are expected to become siksa-guru on my
order, not by his own order. That is meaning I am giving sannyasa, I am
sending you to different places, so this means that you have to carry out
the order of the guru very strictly; then you become mature. Otherwise it
will be artificial attempt, and that kind of guru will not help.
From a Room Conversation
-
May 30, 1976, Hawaii
--
To unsubscribe from this group please click here: http://uk.domeus.com/public/unsubscribe.jsp?gid=451629&uid=76171414&mid=34776059&sig=BBGDGOAKFBEKPCEJ
The use of domeus is subject to eCircle GmbH
's terms and conditions: http://www.domeus.co.uk/info/terms.jsp
--
Dandavats! Jaya Srila Prabhupada! Jaya Vaishnava acharyas!
yhs,
Radhika Gopinath das
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