To tip or not to tip

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Sandra Vigil

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Feb 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/18/97
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SCN User wrote:
>
> I can't quite understand the appearance of tip jars at so many places
> these days. I've seen them at Subway sandwiches, Grateful Bread in
> Wedgwood, and a bakery in Fremont.
>
> Why should I tip at these establishments. Scenario: I go up to the
> counter and pay for a cookie. The clerk hands me the cookie. Has she
> been worthy of a tip?

I don't use these. Tips are for service rendered. I don't
believe that the simple act of ringing up an order or smearing
cream cheese on a bagel is tipable service.

However, I do tip quite well for table service, leaving less
than 15% only when service was unbearably bad.

What I'm wondering is, does anyone have an opinion on whether
your tip should be calculated before or after tax? Not that
it's going to make a lot of difference in most cases but it's
something that was mentioned to me recently.

--

/Sandra Vigil "There are three sure things in life--
vi...@nwlink.com death, taxes and the stupidity
of baseball owners."
Columnist Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun)

SCN User

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

I can't quite understand the appearance of tip jars at so many places
these days. I've seen them at Subway sandwiches, Grateful Bread in
Wedgwood, and a bakery in Fremont.

Why should I tip at these establishments. Scenario: I go up to the
counter and pay for a cookie. The clerk hands me the cookie. Has she
been worthy of a tip?

Ideas?


--
bd...@scn.org
Seattle, WA

turmoil

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

Sandra Vigil <vi...@nwlink.com> writes:

>I don't use these. Tips are for service rendered. I don't

>believe that the simple act of ringing up an order or smearing
>cream cheese on a bagel is tipable service.

>However, I do tip quite well for table service, leaving less
>than 15% only when service was unbearably bad.

>What I'm wondering is, does anyone have an opinion on whether
>your tip should be calculated before or after tax? Not that
>it's going to make a lot of difference in most cases but it's
>something that was mentioned to me recently.

Jesus, some people sure are cheap. THINK these kids don't get paid much,
alot of time how well they eat depends on the tips that goes in these
jars, if you can afford to eat out you can afford to put a few coins in
the frigging jar, if not STAY HOME. I sincerely hope some food worker
spits in your food.

turmoil

>--

>/Sandra Vigil "There are three sure things in life--
>vi...@nwlink.com death, taxes and the stupidity
> of baseball owners."
> Columnist Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun)

--
turmoil's seattle music web ------------------- http://seattlemusicweb.com
tur...@blarg.net

Jennifer Freeman

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

In article <330AA7...@nwlink.com>, Sandra Vigil <vi...@nwlink.com> wrote:

>>SCN User wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't quite understand the appearance of tip jars at so many places
>>> these days. I've seen them at Subway sandwiches, Grateful Bread in
>>> Wedgwood, and a bakery in Fremont.
>>>
>>> Why should I tip at these establishments. Scenario: I go up to the
>>> counter and pay for a cookie. The clerk hands me the cookie. Has she
>>> been worthy of a tip?
>>
>>I don't use these. Tips are for service rendered. I don't
>>believe that the simple act of ringing up an order or smearing
>>cream cheese on a bagel is tipable service.
>>
>>However, I do tip quite well for table service, leaving less
>>than 15% only when service was unbearably bad.
>>
>>What I'm wondering is, does anyone have an opinion on whether
>>your tip should be calculated before or after tax? Not that
>>it's going to make a lot of difference in most cases but it's
>>something that was mentioned to me recently.
>>

>>--
>>
>>/Sandra Vigil "There are three sure things in life--
>>vi...@nwlink.com death, taxes and the stupidity
>> of baseball owners."
>> Columnist Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun)

I only use "tip jars" if I feel the "cookie handler" has gone above and
beyond. For example, if I asked for a chocolate chip cookie without chips
and the clerk hand picked the chips out of my cookie...well...I'd tip the
clerk (especially if the clerk used gloves and kept the cookie intact!).
Those occasions are very rare. Sometimes I'll order something that takes
a bit of effort; I tend to reward good effort whether it's tableside or
counterside.

I tend to more often tip those nasty tip jars at places I frequent. The
clerks, in turn, tend to give me "extra" change (ie, the bill is $5.25 and
I give them a $10. They give me back a $5.) It all works out in the end.


I will often put my change in a Chicken Soup Brigade can if one is sitting
there.

As for tipping pre- or post- tax: I believe the tip should be based on
the total before tax, because the tip is based on service. However, I
rarely tip on the pre-tax total. Simply, I'm too forgetful. It's too
bad. In Washington all one has to do is double the tax for a standard
service tip. But I always pay with a debit card, so by the time I get the
final reciept for signing the tax has vanished into the total.

-Jen

Troy Davis

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
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On 19 Feb 1997 08:54:01 -0800, tur...@animal.blarg.net (turmoil)
said:

>Jesus, some people sure are cheap. THINK these kids don't get paid much,
>alot of time how well they eat depends on the tips that goes in these
>jars, if you can afford to eat out you can afford to put a few coins in
>the frigging jar, if not STAY HOME. I sincerely hope some food worker
>spits in your food.

So, under that cloud of crap, you're saying people should put some
money in tip jars no matter what the clerk's tasks were?

That's the most I could get out of your statement, sorry.

Cheers,

Troy Davis
Black Cat Communications
http://www.blackcat.net
Seattle, WA, USA

Alan Katz

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

> Why should I tip at these establishments. Scenario: I go up to the
> counter and pay for a cookie. The clerk hands me the cookie. Has she
> been worthy of a tip?

Those are not really tip jars, they're places to get rid of loose change
(pennies, nickels). With inflation the way its been, its just not worth
carrying pennies and nickels around anymore. So, into the jar they go.

Alan


Alan Katz

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

>>Those are not really tip jars, they're places to get rid of loose change
>>(pennies, nickels). With inflation the way its been, its just not worth
>>carrying pennies and nickels around anymore. So, into the jar they go.
>

>Not to start a postmodern debate on the nature of identity, but most of
>the jars/cups I see are labeled "tips". As such, I'm inclined to
>believe that they are indeed tip jars. Especially when they are
>chock-full of quarters and a few dollar bills.


I know they SAY "tips", but that doesnt mean they have to be tips
(or not very big ones, anyway).


Peter Wong

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

> Jesus, some people sure are cheap. THINK these kids don't get paid much,
> alot of time how well they eat depends on the tips that goes in these
> jars, if you can afford to eat out you can afford to put a few coins in
> the frigging jar, if not STAY HOME. I sincerely hope some food worker
> spits in your food.

Since when are we *expected* to supplement their income? They
work in a service industry and should be grateful to receive a tip
if they work hard and the customer notices.

What do the kids who work at those 10 minute oil-lube places make?
Do you tip them? How about the attendants at the Seattle Center
rides? The kid at the fancy hairdresser that washes your hair?
The stock boys at the local grocery store? Someone at the record
store who names the album or song you've been pulling your hair out
trying to remember? Sure, some of these have higher wages than a
server, but they don't receive tips and likely come out far below
what a server makes (even ones at Dennys) when tips are added up.

There are lots of people making very little. Tips are for great service,
not out of pity for what the server makes. I'm sure most servers
would rather have it that way too, rather than be made to feel like
silent beggers. They're lucky to receive tips, and they're unlucky
to be exploited by their managers/restaurant owners. The latter
is not MY problem. Join a union.

If you tip everyone that makes less than you...I applaud you. Somehow
I doubt that you do. By your logic, Bill Gates should at least tip
$1000 each time he goes out to eat, or treat everyone in the restaurant
to a free meal.

Peter

The Blind Pig

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

Sandra Vigil wrote:
>
> SCN User wrote:

> > Why should I tip at these establishments. Scenario: I go up to the
> > counter and pay for a cookie. The clerk hands me the cookie. Has she
> > been worthy of a tip?
>

> I don't use these. Tips are for service rendered.

That is a good point and will answer the qiestion about pretax tipping.

> What I'm wondering is, does anyone have an opinion on whether
> your tip should be calculated before or after tax? Not that
> it's going to make a lot of difference in most cases but it's
> something that was mentioned to me recently.

Pretax subtotal is the correct total to tip on since the tax is not a
service or food.

One issue that confuses me though is the pricing of alcohol on the tab.
Sometimes it is taxed and sometimes it isn't, or at least an additional
tax is not included at the bottom of the tab.

Those times when a bar tab tax is not included it appears I am forced to
tip on the tax.


--
"REHAB is for quitters"

Mike Edwards

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

I tend to tip (in tip jars) at, say, Subway - because the server has
rendered a service (s/he built my sandwich), plus I don't like to fiddle
with change. I don't worry about the percentages in such situations.
I tip my barristra when s/he makes my espresso, no only because I have
experienced the horror of bad espresso, but the people place I regularly
go to are skilled, and create artistic wonders in the foam of my mocha.
I think tipping only if you are a regular customer (in order to generate
small benefits) is more like bribery - if you don't tip when you aren't a
regular, your not basing it on service, are you?
However, the above employees are getting paid full wage - tips are not
considered part of their main wages. It doesn't bug me when others choose
not to tip.
As for tipping in more traditional (sit-down restaurant) situations, I
generally go for 15% - more on occasion, less on rare occasions. I don't
worry about the tax: On a $50 dinner, a before tax tip is $7.50, and an
after tax one is %8.10 - is .60¢ worth my trouble to figure pre-tax? Nope.
And considering that most of my meals come in at much less, the amount is
even smaller.
On the other hand, if you are using the "double the tax" method, that's
quick and easy, and the servers shouldn't pull their hair out over the
small amount missed - it works out to an $8 tip in the above example (with
an 8% tax). With 8.2%, I think you actually tip more...

--
Mike Edwards - Luminous Technology Corporation
Views expressed are my own.

Matthew Amster-Burton

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

I find the whole idea of tipping an excuse for mistreatment of labor.
If your server doesn't need the money (unlikely), you shouldn't be
tipping her. If she does need the money, her boss should be paying
her more. Tipping puts the livelihood of the wait staff at the mercy
of the customers, who are more capricious with their largesse than the
management is allowed to be.

That said, I always tip because I know the wait staff *does* need the
money. As for jars at Starbucks and similar, how about tipping not
because the server has gone above and beyond, but because the server
is making minimum wage and could use a hand?

Matthew

zin...@wolfenet.com

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

Turmoil's reply here is precisely why I do not put money in pit jars. I
tip for table service. Table service does not mean placing a tipping
jar in a tasteless fashion in front of me as a pass through a line like
some herd animal.

Jarrett Paschel

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

ka...@coho.halcyon.com (Alan Katz) writes:

>> Why should I tip at these establishments. Scenario: I go up to the
>> counter and pay for a cookie. The clerk hands me the cookie. Has she
>> been worthy of a tip?

>Those are not really tip jars, they're places to get rid of loose change


>(pennies, nickels). With inflation the way its been, its just not worth
>carrying pennies and nickels around anymore. So, into the jar they go.

Not to start a postmodern debate on the nature of identity, but most of
the jars/cups I see are labeled "tips". As such, I'm inclined to
believe that they are indeed tip jars. Especially when they are
chock-full of quarters and a few dollar bills.

--


--=={{ big...@u.washington.edu }}==--


ranman

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to
You cheap bastards a 15% tip on a $1.75 latte is a little more than a
quarter on a five dollar sandwich its only seventy five cents are you
people Canadian or what? Tip these people not to make them feel good
about life, but to feel good about giving you good service. A cookie
served is a service rendered. you would probably tip a waiter a quarter
to go to the bar and get a drink AND expect to get it with a smile. You
can go back to these places if you want but if you don't tip you are
roundly hated no matter what the reaction of the counter
help/server/barista may be. These people do this for a living and have
not the cash to be in a position to tip or not to tip courtside. When a
person gos to work in a place do they not see the tip jar? is that not
part of the remuneration? Full wage? what the hell is that? Whatever you
think the market will bear?

Sandra Vigil

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

turmoil wrote:

> Jesus, some people sure are cheap. THINK these kids don't get paid much,
> alot of time how well they eat depends on the tips that goes in these
> jars,

This has nothing to do with being cheap or with the money
involved. I tip damn well for service rendered. I am not,
however, in the business of giving something for nothing and I
don't understand why you would think that I should be.

What I would really like is for restaurants to pay proper wages
and make this reflected in the prices they charge. They are the
employer. I am not. It isn't my business to know the salary of
their employees.

>if you can afford to eat out you can afford to put a few coins in
> the frigging jar, if not STAY HOME.
>

Again, I can afford to eat out and when such a service is
rendered to me that constitutes tipping, I will do so. If I had
to guess, I'd say that my position is in the majority. If we
all stay home, a damn lot of places go out of business. And who
does that help?

Jennifer Freeman

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

In article <330AA7...@nwlink.com>, Sandra Vigil <vi...@nwlink.com> wrote:

>>SCN User wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't quite understand the appearance of tip jars at so many places
>>> these days. I've seen them at Subway sandwiches, Grateful Bread in
>>> Wedgwood, and a bakery in Fremont.
>>>

>>> Why should I tip at these establishments. Scenario: I go up to the
>>> counter and pay for a cookie. The clerk hands me the cookie. Has she
>>> been worthy of a tip?
>>

>>I don't use these. Tips are for service rendered. I don't
>>believe that the simple act of ringing up an order or smearing
>>cream cheese on a bagel is tipable service.
>>
>>However, I do tip quite well for table service, leaving less
>>than 15% only when service was unbearably bad.
>>

>>What I'm wondering is, does anyone have an opinion on whether
>>your tip should be calculated before or after tax? Not that
>>it's going to make a lot of difference in most cases but it's
>>something that was mentioned to me recently.
>>

>>--
>>
>>/Sandra Vigil "There are three sure things in life--
>>vi...@nwlink.com death, taxes and the stupidity
>> of baseball owners."
>> Columnist Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun)

I only use "tip jars" if I feel the "cookie handler" has gone above and
beyond. For example, if I asked for a chocolate chip cookie without chips
and the clerk hand picked the chips out of my cookie...well...I'd tip the
clerk (especially if the clerk used gloves and kept the cookie intact!).
Those occasions are very rare. Sometimes I'll order something that takes
a bit of effort; I tend to reward good effort whether it's tableside or

counterside or courtside.

I tend to more often tip those nasty tip jars at places I frequent. The
clerks, in turn, tend to give me "extra" change (ie, the bill is $5.25 and
I give them a $10. They give me back a $5.) It all works out in the end.


I will often put my change in a Chicken Soup Brigade can if one is sitting
there.

As for tipping pre- or post- tax: I believe the tip should be based on

the total before tax (Don't ask me to provide an argument about that
though. I might change my mind). However, I rarely tip that way. Simply,
I'm too forgetful to remember the pre-tax total. It's too bad. In


Washington all one has to do is double the tax for a standard service
tip. But I always pay with a debit card, so by the time I get the final
reciept for signing the tax has vanished into the total.

Like I said, it all works out in the end.

-Jen

Richard Forester

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Feb 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/20/97
to

Gee.. such nice sentiments. I suspect you must be one of these "kids" or
else you wouldn't have such a rabid response. On the subject of tip jars,
I have never nor will I ever put money into them. I have already paid for
the product and the service in the price posted. If the worker doesn't
like the wage he/she is being paid, they should seek better employment.

> Jesus, some people sure are cheap. THINK these kids don't get paid much,
> alot of time how well they eat depends on the tips that goes in these

> jars, if you can afford to eat out you can afford to put a few coins in
> the frigging jar, if not STAY HOME. I sincerely hope some food worker
> spits in your food.
>

> turmoil


Max Pednekar

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Feb 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/20/97
to

Regarding tip jars, if a latte cost $1.86, pay $ 2 and leave the
change. If the latte cost $1.76, pay $2 and leave the change. If the latte
cost between $1.90 and & $2.00, don't insult someone with leaving pennies.
Between $2 and $2.50, leave whatever change under $0.25 and scrounge
around for an extra quarter. If the latte was over $2.50, it was
overpriced in the first place and the barista would do themself good to
skim off the owner's profit margin.
In short, for small purchases not involving table service, leave
whatever change up to $0.50. At a licensed bar, $0.50 to $1.00 per drink
is reasonable.

George Cooley

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Feb 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/20/97
to

Are you crazy? The service that these people render is already paid
for with the price of the purchase. They are not paid smaller base
salaries given the expectation that they will be earning tips, as waiters
and waitresses are. When I give money to charity, said charity is *NEVER*
the pimple-faced teenager who slothered cream cheese on my bagel.
Furthermore, in these cases the paradigm is all wrong for tipping.
At "pay-in-advance" counters, where food is paid for when it is
handed to the buyer, if not sooner, the quality of the service cannot
possibly be evaluated at purchase time. How do I even know
that the coffee is hot, or the sandwich has the extra mayo I asked for,
or the cream cheese tastes fresh, until after I've tasted the food?
In short, there is no obligation of any kind to put money in these tip
jars, and you shouldn't ever let anyone make you feel otherwise.

tur...@blarg.net wrote:
]
] Jesus, some people sure are cheap. THINK these kids don't get paid much,


] alot of time how well they eat depends on the tips that goes in these
] jars, if you can afford to eat out you can afford to put a few coins in
] the frigging jar, if not STAY HOME. I sincerely hope some food worker
] spits in your food.

--


Jarrett Paschel

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Feb 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/20/97
to

Max Pednekar <mped...@speakeasy.org> writes:

> Regarding tip jars, if a latte cost $1.86, pay $ 2 and leave the
>change. If the latte cost $1.76, pay $2 and leave the change. If the latte
>cost between $1.90 and & $2.00, don't insult someone with leaving pennies.
>Between $2 and $2.50, leave whatever change under $0.25 and scrounge
>around for an extra quarter. If the latte was over $2.50, it was
>overpriced in the first place and the barista would do themself good to
>skim off the owner's profit margin.

This is an awfully complicated calculus, no? Why not factor in the market
adjustments in coffee bean prices as a reflector of global instability ?
Perhaps add in a 4% surcharge off the top for Baristas who insult our
dignity by giving change in nickels ?

--


--=={{ big...@u.washington.edu }}==--


Mike Whybark

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Feb 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/20/97
to

I note that at least one or two folks in the heated discussion above have
email addresses at the Speakeasy; if I am not mistaken the net desk there
has a tip jar. Do you tip the net guy?

If not, is it because he is "making full wage"? If so, are those of you at
the help desk in Redmond making more than "full wage"?

And I'm going to wholeheartedly and violently weigh in on the tip whenever
and wherever possible; futhermore, I'm going to reccommend a little tactic
that waitpeople love:

When you pay by a debit card, tip out in CASH. The transaction stays off of
the books and the waits won't ever be taxed on it. Plus, it helps me keep
my books straight cuz I use a really simple one-size fits all tipping
scheme:

Counter service, non-alcholic: loose change to nearest buck unless it's
pathetically small and insulting, whereupon I round up to the nearest buck.

Counter service, alcoholic: A buck a drink through three rounds and then a
buck every other one until broke. Exception: two bucks a pitcher until
broke. Secondary exception: all bets off once sufficently drunk, excessive
tipping or none at all both acceptable based on amount of money in pocket
until broke.

Meals: 15% for substandard; 20% normal; 25% exceptional. If it was so
substandard I can't bear to tip I might politely raise my issue with the
waitperson and often find that my bill will be adjusted in which case a 15%
to 20% tip will be easy to visualize.

--
___________________________________________________________________________
Mike Whybark Art Guy mwhy...@halcyon.com

turmoil

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Feb 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/20/97
to

geo...@animal.blarg.net (George Cooley) writes:

> Are you crazy? The service that these people render is already paid
>for with the price of the purchase. They are not paid smaller base
>salaries given the expectation that they will be earning tips, as waiters
>and waitresses are. When I give money to charity, said charity is *NEVER*
>the pimple-faced teenager who slothered cream cheese on my bagel.

If your THAT cheap, STAY the fuck home. If I wroked in food service, and
you came in with your attitude. I guarantee I would spit in your food. I
bet you eat alot of spit and never know it...


> Furthermore, in these cases the paradigm is all wrong for tipping.
>At "pay-in-advance" counters, where food is paid for when it is
>handed to the buyer, if not sooner, the quality of the service cannot
>possibly be evaluated at purchase time. How do I even know
>that the coffee is hot, or the sandwich has the extra mayo I asked for,
>or the cream cheese tastes fresh, until after I've tasted the food?

Make it yourself.


> In short, there is no obligation of any kind to put money in these tip
>jars, and you shouldn't ever let anyone make you feel otherwise.


No obligation other than normal courtesy, of which, it is obvous you have
none.

>tur...@blarg.net wrote:
>]
>] Jesus, some people sure are cheap. THINK these kids don't get paid much,
>] alot of time how well they eat depends on the tips that goes in these
>] jars, if you can afford to eat out you can afford to put a few coins in
>] the frigging jar, if not STAY HOME. I sincerely hope some food worker
>] spits in your food.

>--

--

Richard Forester

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Feb 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/21/97
to

turmoil <tur...@animal.blarg.net> wrote in article
> If your THAT cheap, STAY the fuck home. If I wroked in food service, and
> you came in with your attitude. I guarantee I would spit in your food. I
> bet you eat alot of spit and never know it...

Grow up already!

> No obligation other than normal courtesy, of which, it is obvous you have
> none.

Courtesy? I have traveled a lot and in no other city in America have I
seen these "tip jars." This is purely a Seattle phenomena. It is never
customary or a courtesy to tip someone merely for doing their job.

> turmoil's seattle music web -------------------
http://seattlemusicweb.com

Just a bit of friendly advice, you probably shouldn't post your phone
number on the web if you are going to spam like this.


Max Pednekar

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Feb 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/21/97
to Jarrett Paschel

Complicated? Did I bring about this complicated situation by
putting out that tip-jar in the first place? To answer you question, this
is not calculus, it a rough formula derived from my sub-conscious tipping
trends. In short, if I knew for certain the barista/baristo (why is the
latter is never used in describing a male espresso wizard?) was making a
decent living wage, the primary motivator of my dropping spare change in
the tip jar would be gone!.....MSP

J. Pheasant

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Feb 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/21/97
to

The grammar police would like to remind you that a mind is a terrible
thing to waste. In addition, your mother *was* right; no one will think
highly of you when you use offensive language. Now stop that or your face
will get stuck like that.

See Websters: gra-tu-it : something given voluntarily or beyond obligation
usuaually in return for or in anticipation of some service.


>
*you're not your* (If you worked)>

> If your THAT cheap, STAY the fuck home. If I wroked in food service, and
> you came in with your attitude. I guarantee I would spit in your food. I
> bet you eat alot of spit and never know it...
>

When you're smart and charming I bet the money just rolls in.
>
>


Matthew Amster-Burton

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Feb 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/21/97
to

"Richard Forester" <fore...@blarg.net> wrote:

>Courtesy? I have traveled a lot and in no other city in America have I
>seen these "tip jars." This is purely a Seattle phenomena. It is never
>customary or a courtesy to tip someone merely for doing their job.

Try Portland.

Matthew

Cheryl Walker

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Feb 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/21/97
to

When I worked at Jason's in Ann Arbor in 1988, we had a tip jar. I've
seen them in Miami, where I grew up. Having worked in the service
industry, I tend to look for them.

Cheryl Walker, Technical Editor in Seattle, WA
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." --Tom Waits
Email cwa...@adobe.com for information on the Fibromyalgia Self-Help
Fund

SCN User

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Feb 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/21/97
to


SticStick with it Sandra, you are cool!


Richard Forester

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Feb 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/22/97
to

Me call you? I hardly think so. Get a life, foul mouth.

>> turmoil's seattle music web -------------------
>http://seattlemusicweb.com

>Just a bit of friendly advice, you probably shouldn't post your phone
>number on the web if you are going to spam like this.

Why? are you gonna call me on the phone cause I called you a cheap
bastard?? Fuck that, you got balls to talk come on by the house. 515
Summit Ave E. Anytime.


Oceansize

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Feb 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/22/97
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On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:24:39 -0800, mwhy...@halcyon.com (Mike
Whybark) wrote:

I hope this wasn't a troll because i'm responding.


>Counter service, non-alcholic: loose change to nearest buck unless it's
>pathetically small and insulting, whereupon I round up to the nearest buck.
>

O%, Unless the people are overly friendly, cute, and happen to make my
day. I've worked behind the counter and didn't expect to be tipped.

>Counter service, alcoholic: A buck a drink through three rounds and then a
>buck every other one until broke. Exception: two bucks a pitcher until
>broke. Secondary exception: all bets off once sufficently drunk, excessive
>tipping or none at all both acceptable based on amount of money in pocket
>until broke.
>

A buck a drink through two - three rounds and nothing for the rest of
the night.

>Meals: 15% for substandard; 20% normal; 25% exceptional. If it was so
>substandard I can't bear to tip I might politely raise my issue with the
>waitperson and often find that my bill will be adjusted in which case a 15%
>to 20% tip will be easy to visualize.
>

I consider myself a great tipper. I've worked as both a cook and
waiter while attending college. Plain and simple, cooks work harder
than waitstaff. In fact, the waitstaff probably has the easiest job
in the joint except for the host/hostess, maybe. Cooks also have more
to do with how well your food tastes than the server. How about we
abolish customary tipping of wait staff and tip
cooks/buspersons/dishwashers!!!!

Having fed the revolution, I normally tip 20%. Substandard service,
which includes no smiling, cold food, no attention to detail (say
water and chips/bread), and you get 0% to 5%.

Kind Regards,

Stephen Rosales
dou...@aa.net


Jarrett Paschel

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Feb 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/22/97
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"Richard Forester" <fore...@blarg.net> writes:

As I stand tall, gazing out over the vast expanses soon to be linked
through the technology of the internet, I shiver in anticipation of what
lies ahead. Imagine the wonders that a civilization can accomplish by
allowing any and all citizens the ability to communicate in an open
fashion...

--


--=={{ big...@u.washington.edu }}==--


Mike Whybark

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Feb 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/22/97
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In article <330eb129...@news.aa.net>, dou...@aa.net (Oceansize) wrote:
> I consider myself a great tipper. I've worked as both a cook and
> waiter while attending college. Plain and simple, cooks work harder
> than waitstaff. In fact, the waitstaff probably has the easiest job
> in the joint except for the host/hostess, maybe. Cooks also have more
> to do with how well your food tastes than the server. How about we
> abolish customary tipping of wait staff and tip
> cooks/buspersons/dishwashers!!!!

That's great idea! When I worked as a busser/dishdog I got tipped out at a
rough 10% of the tips that the waits got, an I think typical arrangement.
You are right about the physical labor; the backstaff sweats at top speed
for the whole shift in an efficently run restaurant. From time to time I
know that either a patron or a wait would directly tip a cook or team on
the basis of having performed especially well (i.e., improvising a
vegetartian alternative to a main entree or similar think on your feet type
situation...) but adding the cookstaff to the tip stream seems reasonable
to me...

Mike Whybark

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Feb 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/22/97
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In article <mwhybark-ya0240800...@news.halcyon.com>,
mwhy...@halcyon.com (Mike Whybark) wrote:

<rough schedule of tipping that seems to apply to me>

I just realized that lunchtime tipping seems to be a special case; I'm not
sure there are predictable rules that I use...

let's see:

when in a large group estimate your total bill, add 10% for accidental
minimization of one's total bill (a step easily overlooked), and add 15% to
20% rounded to nearest whole dollar amount.

so a 4.75 burrito and a 1.50 drink would be guesstimated in the absence of
a menu as 5 bucks and a dollar, plus 60 cents compensatory estimation for
an adjusted guess of 6.60 in comparison to 6.25 straight cost; add an
estimated 1.25 20% for an unrounded guesstimate of 7.85 rounded to 8 bucks.

skipping the 10 rounding yields 6 + 1.20 = 7.20 rounded to 7 bucks;

actual pricing would be

4.75
1.50
.53 tax
----
6.83
1.36 20% or 1.06 16% (double the tax method) or 1.02 15%
---- ---- ----
8.19 7.89 7.85

Hm. So consensus analysis factoring in the rounding to nearest whole dollar
behavior shows that 8 bucks would be the going rate. Note that neglecting
the compensatory 10% rounding up of the base price reduces the actual tip
to 17 cents, or a bit less than 3%.

Another way of looking at this is that a buck is a fair lunch tip.

Ty

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Feb 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/23/97
to

Ok.. here is my $.02 worth...

As a rule, I tip 20%. If the service was exceptional, I will tip 25% or 30%. If the
service was poor (meaning MORE than one or two things wrong) I will not tip at all. On
the other hand,,, if the service is LOUSY, I will leave a nickel and a penny or two.

Ty

gr8...@ix.netcom.com

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Feb 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/24/97
to

Hey Turmoil, here's a TIP: learn how to spell while you're busy ranting.

As to why we rationalize subsidizing one industry's employees and not
anothers' is beyond me. Guess we're suckers for the most part. A
particularly impressive trick was where the food industry convinced us
sheep to raise the tip percentage from 10% (historically) to 15% and
greater on the pretext that it was to "keep up with rising costs." Guess
what some of the most rapidly rising costs are? Yep, eating out. And
guess what...if the costs rise, so does the amount of a tip based on
percentage. Go figure that. Hey, why doesn't the public just simply
pick up ALL of the restauranteurs' salary costs? Poor guys.

gr8...@ix.netcom.com

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Feb 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/24/97
to

"Tipping less for bad service"? Is somebody out of their mind? Not
only do I NOT tip, but I take it even further-- after receiving
substandard service, I write "No service, no tip" on my credit card
slip. That way it's out there on the table for everyone to
see...including the boss. If you leave a few pennies, they just think
you're cheap, they take it out on the rest of the customers, you never
go back, and the boss never knows what's going on. Hell, they ought to
pay me for having suffered the abuse!

Dave Breneman

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Feb 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/24/97
to

In article <5eine8$p...@animal.blarg.net> tur...@animal.blarg.net (turmoil) writes:
>geo...@animal.blarg.net (George Cooley) writes:
(With deletions...)

>
>> Are you crazy? The service that these people render is already paid
>>for with the price of the purchase.
>
> I guarantee I would spit in your food. I
>bet you eat alot of spit and never know it...
>
>
>> In short, there is no obligation of any kind to put money in these tip
>>jars, and you shouldn't ever let anyone make you feel otherwise.
>
>No obligation other than normal courtesy, of which, it is obvous you have
>none.


So, let me get this straight - you would spit in the food of
someone who does not leave you a gratuity (even though you
work in a job which has never traditionally received gratuities)
and yet you claim to be a bellweather of "normal courtesy"?
Fascinating (and totally socially dysfunctional, I might add).


--
David Breneman | Cylinders, wire recorders, Elcasettes.
Rosedale Audio Productions | Fine audio for television since 1975.
d...@rosedale.seaslug.org | Rosedale's 1st and best Unix data center.
..uunet!camco!rosedale!dcb | Home of the Northwest 3B2 Archive.

Berlstein

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Feb 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/25/97
to

Who cares?

Tip, don't tip. It's a personal decision, unworthy of this larege
vitriolic pile of blather. blah blah blah, yackity yak yak.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Those who have nothing to say usually say it about spelling."
-Jim Berlstein, BFD

Wes Stanton

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Feb 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/25/97
to

More on tipping -- see CR Roberts' Column in the Tacoma News Tribune today:

http://www.tribnet.com/~tnt/news/06025.htm

ele...@aol.com

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Feb 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/25/97
to

In article <01bc1eb8$9cb5b0e0$62eb...@rudeboy.halcyon.com>, "Peter Wong" <rud...@halcyon.com> writes:

> Tips are for great service,
>not out of pity for what the server makes.

Ditto, ditto Peter........... I agree completely..................'Leni

ele...@aol.com

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Feb 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/25/97
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SCN User

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Feb 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/27/97
to

Amen.

Marcy Thompson

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Feb 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/27/97
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Richard Forester <fore...@blarg.net> wrote:

>Courtesy? I have traveled a lot and in no other city in America have I
>seen these "tip jars." This is purely a Seattle phenomena. It is never
>customary or a courtesy to tip someone merely for doing their job.

Then you aren't paying attention. I first saw these in San Francisco in
the early 1980s, and have since seen them in Boston/Cambridge, Berkeley,
Santa Barbara, and London (England), in additon to Seattle.

Marcy
--
Marcy Thompson
home: ma...@squirrel.com (working again as of 1/1/1997)
work: m...@criinc.com (new as of 11/11/1996)
Usenet only: ma...@world.std.com (some things never change)

Kyle Capizzi

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97
to

> >> turmoil's seattle music web -------------------
> >http://seattlemusicweb.com
>

> Why? are you gonna call me on the phone cause I called you a cheap
> bastard?? Fuck that, you got balls to talk come on by the house. 515
> Summit Ave E. Anytime.
>

No, thank you. I'd rather just burn it to the ground. Have a nice day,
foulmouth.

--Kyle Capizzi-- --University of Washington--

Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side and
a dark side, and it binds the universe together

****** Due to budget cuts, the University of Washington no longer has ******
****** an opinion to be in conflict with the personal views expressed ******
****** by this author. Thank You... ******


Berlstein

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97
to

Two Belligerant idiots write:

"> Why? are you gonna call me on the phone cause I called you a cheap
> bastard?? Fuck that, you got balls to talk come on by the house. 515
> Summit Ave E. Anytime.
>

No, thank you. I'd rather just burn it to the ground. Have a nice day,
foulmouth."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------

Jim Responds:
Hey! You guys are making me hungry for tenderized meat and
barbarcue! Maybe you two could meet for a fight at the Pecos Pit, and the
looser could be prepared for my dining pleasure.
Thanks for all your help on tipping etiquite. You two are my role
models for polite behavior. Let me know when the Pecos Pit brawl will be
held. I will show up with my bib, eager to eat the loser. I'll be
cheering for the fatter combatant, as I prefer lean meat.

Berlstein

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97
to

Could someone please drive a stake through the heart of this subject?
Die, vile subject, die!
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