Window A/C

[Rob Harrison cPHc]

Hello smart people,

A friend of mine need some air conditioning, but replacing her furnace with a heat pump is not in the cards at the moment. Somewhere I recall seeing a super efficient window unit. It might’ve been in Fine Homebuilding or Green Building Advisor. Can anyone put a finger on this? 

Thanks. 

Rob

Rob Harrison cPHc

HARRISON architects

(206) 794-2738

via iPhone….

http://harrisonarchitects.com/

lyrical sustainable design  ::  passivhaus

[Galen Ward]

Possibly you saw the Midea? I don’t know that it’s super-efficient, but it’s quite efficient and it’s quiet.

https://www.wsj.com/buyside/home-products-decor/living-room/midea-u-shaped-air-conditioner-review

Gradient is coming in the next year and will be a full below-the-window heat pump for year-round use. https://www.gradientcomfort.com/pages/our-products

Galen

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[Rob Harrison cPHc]

It might have been the Midea. The Gradient looks interesting too. Thanks so much!

Rob

Rob Harrison cPHc

(he/him)

Passive House Consultant

HARRISON architects

(206) 794-2738

http://harrisonarchitects.com/

lyrical sustainable design  ::  passivhaus

I acknowledge that I live on the unceded ancestral lands of the Duwamish people. A people that are still here, continuing to honor and bring to light their ancient heritage.

[Thad Curtz]

Electrify Now is about to do a webinar on room heat pumps - portables, window models, etc… (August 14th)

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/room-heat-pumps-cooling-and-heating-in-a-small-package-tickets-935788918847

They did a similar one nine months ago, which you can watch at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkW3M-w0DNg

I’m attaching the comparison chart from their webinar on the portable heat pumps that were available two years ago, which is also on line at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odLX8ElH4Sw.

We went with their top pick, a Midea Duo 14K btu unit, which is now $699. (We bought one a couple of months ago that’s identical, as far as we can tell, for something like $458, but those went out of stock before we could buy a second one.)

Best wishes,

Thad Curtz

[Jonlin, Duane]

My concern with this concept: 

To install it, you slide the bottom portion of a double-hung window up a few inches, right?

This leaves a substantial open air pathway between the top and bottom portions of the window, so you'll be cooling the great outdoors unless you filled the gap with towels or something. Not optimal.

DJ

	Duane Jonlin, FAIA Energy Code and Energy Conservation Advisor City of Seattle Department of Construction and Inspections P.O. Box 34019, Seattle, WA 98124-4019 P: 206.233.2781 |  duane.jonlin@seattle.gov Facebook I X I Blog
	Helping people build a safe, livable, and inclusive Seattle.

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From: seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com <seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Galen Ward <gale...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 4:50 PM
To: Rob Harrison cPHc <r...@harrisonarchitects.com>
Cc: seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com <seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Window A/C

 

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[Rob Harrison cPHc]

Duane, 

There are two types that have been suggested—window units and portable units. Since the ’60’s manufacturers of window units have provided window kits that seal the gaps around the unit itself. The portable units are more recent on the market I think, but also come with a kit for the mounting the intake hose in the window. I have a portable one that was a free  “incentive” for signing my apartment lease. The sealing is nowhere near optimal, but no stuffing with towels is required. 

Rob

Rob Harrison cPHc

(he/him)

Passive House Consultant

HARRISON architects

(206) 794-2738

http://harrisonarchitects.com/

lyrical sustainable design  ::  passivhaus

I acknowledge that I live on the unceded ancestral lands of the Duwamish people. A people that are still here, continuing to honor and bring to light their ancient heritage.

[Jonlin, Duane]

Rob, 

I'm not talking about sealing the area around the unit itself, but rather about the air gap between the upper and lower portions of a double-hung window.

DJ

	Duane Jonlin, FAIA Energy Code and Energy Conservation Advisor City of Seattle Department of Construction and Inspections P.O. Box 34019, Seattle, WA 98124-4019 P: 206.233.2781 |  duane.jonlin@seattle.gov Facebook I X I Blog
	Helping people build a safe, livable, and inclusive Seattle.

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From: Rob Harrison cPHc <r...@harrisonarchitects.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2024 9:48 AM
To: Jonlin, Duane <Duane....@seattle.gov>

[Rob Harrison cPHc]

Ah! I see what you're saying. Two options I can think of. Search for “transparent a/c sealing tape”  or probably better, “expanding self-stick air sealing foam.” I’ll bet Small Planet Supply carries the latter, if you don’t want to order from Amazon.

Rob Harrison cPHc

(he/him)

Passive House Consultant

HARRISON architects

(206) 794-2738

http://harrisonarchitects.com/

lyrical sustainable design  ::  passivhaus

I acknowledge that I live on the unceded ancestral lands of the Duwamish people. A people that are still here, continuing to honor and bring to light their ancient heritage.

On Jul 25, 2024, at 9:58 AM, Jonlin, Duane <Duane....@seattle.gov> wrote:

Rob, 

I'm not talking about sealing the area around the unit itself, but rather about the air gap between the upper and lower portions of a double-hung window.

DJ

<image.png>

[Brian Gix]

I seem to remember my window unit coming with sufficient foam insulation to seal this "gap between the double hung panes", and in fact I installed the foam between both the "frame and pane" from the outside, and the "frame and pane" from the inside. It has been installed for 3 years now, and although it is a 100yo house, I have never noticed any winter draftiness.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/seattle-home-electrification/1665976D-4666-4BD7-B163-7ADBC5626212%40harrisonarchitects.com.

[Jonlin, Duane]

Those products will not solve the problem. Gap too big, and needs to be removable.

Duane Jonlin

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Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2024 11:21:23 AM

 

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[Jonlin, Duane]

Brian,

Do you close the window all the way in winter, or do you leave the unit in year-round?

With the seals in place, can you open the window in nice weather?

DJ

	Duane Jonlin, FAIA Energy Code and Energy Conservation Advisor City of Seattle Department of Construction and Inspections P.O. Box 34019, Seattle, WA 98124-4019 P: 206.233.2781 |  duane.jonlin@seattle.gov Facebook I X I Blog
	Helping people build a safe, livable, and inclusive Seattle.

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From: Brian Gix <bria...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2024 11:36 AM

To: Rob Harrison cPHc <r...@harrisonarchitects.com>

Cc: Jonlin, Duane <Duane....@seattle.gov>; seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com <seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Window A/C

 

[Christian Valoria]

For what it’s worth, the manufacturers do provide some form of blocking to reduce the air gap. This is a mockup of Midea’s unit from a conference a year or so ago. Not the best picture to show this. I think these style units are great with New York’s building stock but I wonder how applicable they will be in Seattle which seems to have so many more slider windows that single/double hung.

Christian Valoria, P.E.

christia...@gmail.com

(916) 833-8021

On Jul 25, 2024, at 3:53 PM, 'Jonlin, Duane' via Western Washington Home Electrification <seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/seattle-home-electrification/SJ0PR09MB6255B4555287AFA74D5F006481AB2%40SJ0PR09MB6255.namprd09.prod.outlook.com.

[Jonlin, Duane]

I also live in a 100-year-old house in Seattle, and all our windows are casements.

I'm partial to the Innova heat pump unit that requires two 6-inch holes through the wall has no outdoor unit at all, and doesn't mess up the function of the window. Not sure how they relate to other options as far as installed cost.

DJ

	Duane Jonlin, FAIA Energy Code and Energy Conservation Advisor City of Seattle Department of Construction and Inspections P.O. Box 34019, Seattle, WA 98124-4019 P: 206.233.2781 |  duane.jonlin@seattle.gov Facebook I X I Blog
	Helping people build a safe, livable, and inclusive Seattle.

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From: Christian Valoria <christia...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2024 4:41 PM
To: Jonlin, Duane <Duane....@seattle.gov>
Cc: Brian Gix <bria...@gmail.com>; Rob Harrison cPHc <r...@harrisonarchitects.com>; seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com <seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Window A/C

 

[Thad Curtz]

My Midea Duo 14k btu portable heat pump came with an insert for sliding windows as well as the one for single/double hung…

Best wishes,

Thad Curtz

On Jul 25, 2024, at 4:41 PM, Christian Valoria <christia...@gmail.com> wrote:

For what it’s worth, the manufacturers do provide some form of blocking to reduce the air gap. This is a mockup of Midea’s unit from a conference a year or so ago. Not the best picture to show this. I think these style units are great with New York’s building stock but I wonder how applicable they will be in Seattle which seems to have so many more slider windows that single/double hung.<IMG_1895.jpeg>

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/seattle-home-electrification/45E65BE2-6DF0-4DD0-9D36-CCB53F97F263%40gmail.com.

[Thad Curtz]

$3,800 for the AC alone vs $699 for the portable heat pump. (They’re Epocha in the US; Innova in Europe.)

https://ephoca.com/aio-wall-mounted-standard/

(Below the window installation photo is down the page…)

 A year ago or so, they were also only selling them for multiple unit installations here...

It seems as if there ought to be other less expensive versions of this idea coming along....

Best wishes,

Thad

On Jul 25, 2024, at 6:24 PM, 'Jonlin, Duane' via Western Washington Home Electrification <seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I also live in a 100-year-old house in Seattle, and all our windows are casements.

I'm partial to the Innova heat pump unit that requires two 6-inch holes through the wall has no outdoor unit at all, and doesn't mess up the function of the window. Not sure how they relate to other options as far as installed cost.

DJ

	Duane Jonlin, FAIA Energy Code and Energy Conservation Advisor City of Seattle Department of Construction and Inspections P.O. Box 34019, Seattle, WA 98124-4019 P: 206.233.2781 |  duane.jonlin@seattle.gov Facebook I X I Blog
	Helping people build a safe, livable, and inclusive Seattle.

---

From: Christian Valoria <christia...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2024 4:41 PM
To: Jonlin, Duane <Duane....@seattle.gov>
Cc: Brian Gix <bria...@gmail.com>; Rob Harrison cPHc <r...@harrisonarchitects.com>; seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com <seattle-home-e...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Window A/C

 

CAUTION: External Email

For what it’s worth, the manufacturers do provide some form of blocking to reduce the air gap. This is a mockup of Midea’s unit from a conference a year or so ago. Not the best picture to show this. I think these style units are great with New York’s building stock but I wonder how applicable they will be in Seattle which seems to have so many more slider windows that single/double hung.<IMG_1895.jpeg>

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/seattle-home-electrification/SJ0PR09MB625533A4ED0C05CA856BEFFD81B42%40SJ0PR09MB6255.namprd09.prod.outlook.com.