Phil's is closed again?
Not Really Here
were going to be closed due to neighbor complaints. Turns out that
watching Ch 9 news last night that Phil's neighbors are no longer
complaining about the bbq smoke, but the bbq smell(!). Phil spent $65k
to bring his place up to code and has no other improvements that he can
do to the building. This is just sad. I love the food and would hate to
see him have to close down because of a few noisy people.
Mike
Andrew W. Frank
be open again by this weekend.
Not Really Here
<afr...@san.rr.com> wrote:
> I have heard that there was a $10,000 fix to this complaint, and that he's
> be open again by this weekend.
This would be great if it's true. Fight the power Phil! : )
Mike
Yez
I saw a thing on the news about this the other night... this poor man
is being hounded into the ground. He fixed the smoke problem, now they
are griping about the barbecue aroma, he was almost crying, apparently
the whole area is hammering him. It is pure bull, Kentucky Fried reeks
out blocks of any neighborhood it is in, so does Jack in the Sack
::shudder:: Why aren't they being persecuted? I hope everyone will go
eat at this guys place, if I lived near there I'd go in for something
to eat and I'm a vegetarian.
'rena in El Cajon
Alan Street
One of the questions I've asked about Phil's is why did he ever choose
that particular neighborhood in the first place. Let's face it, 'que and
quiche don't exactly go together, especially for someone with Phil's
style of conflict resolution. Although I have some issues with Phil's
barbeque style, his food is actually pretty good and certainly better
than the Texas Bar-B-Que place on Miramar road. Yet they do well,
partially because they're located in an area where they "fit."
Phil and his partner were on KFMB last night. From what I heard,
Saturday is a decision day for the SD County building permit department.
There was apparently some problem with the permit and there is supposed
to be a decision on whether he will be allowed to re-open. Just a
suggestion, but it might to help to have some people show up on Saturday
to both show support for the restaurant, and to let Phil know that you
would patronize him if he relocated.
Alan
Mike Christensen
I hate to rock your world, but maybe, just maybe, seeing one very slanted,
obviously staged, news blurb isn't the whole story... The Judge in
this case fined Phil $200K for contempt. That should tell you a
lot about what kind of person Phil is.
Mike
B.Rutherford
On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 4:36:28 -0800, Alan Street wrote
(in message <3C19F226...@irsi.com>):
> One of the questions I've asked about Phil's is why did he ever choose that
> particular neighborhood in the first place. Let's face it, 'que and quiche
> don't exactly go together, especially for someone with Phil's style of
> conflict resolution. Although I have some issues with Phil's barbeque style,
> his food is actually pretty good and certainly better than the Texas
> Bar-B-Que place on Miramar road. Yet they do well, partially because they're
> located in an area where they "fit."
>
> Phil and his partner were on KFMB last night. From what I heard, Saturday is
> a decision day for the SD County building permit department. There was
> apparently some problem with the permit and there is supposed to be a
> decision on whether he will be allowed to re-open. Just a suggestion, but it
> might to help to have some people show up on Saturday to both show support
> for the restaurant, and to let Phil know that you would patronize him if he
> relocated.
>
> Alan
I am a chef who used to work in one of the defunct restaurants across the
street from Phil. That neighborhood is far from neighborly. The whole couple of
blocks are owned by three people who are at odds with each other, as well as
with their tenants. They are constantly calling in what ever regulators they
can to create havoc with the opposition. We had the fire marshal, health dept,
ABC and water dept at our door within a day of my owners argument with one of
our "neighbors" over whether or not we should have patio seating. It was a
horrendous situation which will never change for that area. I feel very sorry
for anyone deciding to start ANY business on that block.
Mike Christensen
Very true. There are no sympathetic players in this morality play. My
only objection is the portrayal here of Phil as an innocent victim. He's done
more than his share of shenanigans as well. So much so that a judge fined him
$200K for his behavior and threatened another $1M fine on top of it.
Mike
ST
contempt. do not merely lay out the charge without the story. Why is Phil so
bad?
I think Phil needed to smoke the meat not merely bake and grill. that said,
back up your talk or don't put it out in an enquirer type manner.
"Mike Christensen" <mik...@west.sun.com> wrote in message
news:62568e49.01121...@posting.google.com...
Alan Street
ST wrote:
>
> if you are going to cite contempt you should explain the reason/s for the
> contempt. do not merely lay out the charge without the story. Why is Phil so
> bad?
>
> I think Phil needed to smoke the meat not merely bake and grill. that said,
> back up your talk or don't put it out in an enquirer type manner.
>
>
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sandiego-sub/index.html?ts=1008807494
Alan Street
That didn't seem to work too well. Here's the article:
Dispute over restaurant is still simmering
The San Diego Union - Tribune; San Diego, Calif.; May 2, 2001; Alex
Roth;
Abstract:
Judge Thomas LaVoy's order doesn't shut down the restaurant but imposes
a $400,000 penalty should Phil's -- which has received more than a dozen citations
for smoke and smell problems -- run afoul of any air-pollution or
public-nuisance laws in the next five years. The judge also fined [Phil
Pace]'s $158,000.
Then there were the confrontations between Pace and his neighbors, and
Pace and county attorneys, and Pace and pollution inspectors. One
inspector, Steven
Evans, filed a court declaration saying Pace "cursed me obscenely and
flicked the hat off my head."
The controversy came to a head in March when the air pollution control
district took Pace and [Jeffrey Loya] to court. The eight-day trial
included testimony from
neighbors, district investigators and Pace, who said he was the victim
of inspectors who were either biased or incompetent, or both.
Full Text:
Copyright SAN DIEGO UNION TRIBUNE PUBLISHING COMPANY May 2, 2001
Editions vary
A billowing plume of barbecue smoke can be bad for a hair stylist's
business. Soot particles tend to settle in the scalp, and the
smell of roasting chicken doesn't mix well with aromatherapy candles.
So hair salon owner Doug Yeagley was ecstatic when he learned Phil's
B.B.Q., the controversial Mission Hills rib joint, had decided to
close for renovations.
"You have no idea," said Yeagley, whose business, Tops Salon, sits next
door. "For the first time in three years this spring, I can have
my windows open."
In January, with little fanfare, Phil's shut its doors on Goldfinch
Street. The restaurant hasn't reopened since. And several weeks
ago came perhaps the most significant development in a three- year legal
battle that has divided this small neighborhood of salons,
fragrance boutiques, upscale eateries and one very well-known barbecue shack.
After a rancorous civil trial in San Diego Superior Court -- during
which the owner of Phil's was threatened with contempt for
allegedly blowing kisses at a hostile witness -- a judge on March 30
issued a permanent injunction.
Judge Thomas LaVoy's order doesn't shut down the restaurant but imposes
a $400,000 penalty should Phil's -- which has received
more than a dozen citations for smoke and smell problems -- run afoul of
any air-pollution or public-nuisance laws in the next five
years. The judge also fined Phil's $158,000.
The ruling brought cheers from several neighboring store owners, who
talk about the barbecue shack in apocalyptic language, as
though they've lived through a nuclear winter.
They've complained about everything from lung ailments to greasy films
of soot on their merchandise. Some of them won't deign to
call Phil's a restaurant. Yeagley, for instance, prefers the phrase
"animal crematorium."
"My customers couldn't smell the products," said Josephine Kozul, the
president of California Fleurish, which sells perfumes and
body lotions down the street. "They would leave coughing and ask me if
the store was on fire."
But the owner of Phil's has his share of allies, who say the smoke and
smell issues have been exaggerated. They also note that Phil's
provided an enormous economic boost to the entire block.
And the bottom line, they say, is that the food is really good.
"Whether you ate there or didn't eat there, the fact that he had that
much of a draw helped promote Mission Hills for everybody," said
Dan Thomas, the owner of The Gathering, a nearby restaurant.
The main owner of Phil's is Phil Pace, 40, a burly man with a booming
voice and a tendency to get so excitable that he acknowledged
on the witness stand taking medication to control his outbursts.
Pace says he closed Phil's B.B.Q. temporarily to expand and spruce up
the interior. He vows to reopen -- sooner rather than later,
probably within a month.
"I'm not the type of person to put my tail between my legs and start
running," said Pace.
On a recent morning, Pace stood inside his shuttered restaurant and
enumerated his list of enemies, jabbing his finger in the
direction of the various business owners who he says have done him wrong.
"He hates me, he hates me, she hates me. But she's a little bit . . . ."
He twirled his finger next to his ear.
He accused several neighbors of conspiring against him. He also said he
has bought a new air-filtration device -- a "Smog Hog" --
that's three times larger than his old one.
Asked whether he and his partner, Jeffrey Loya, have the money to pay
the $158,000 fine, Pace refused to comment.
The restaurant opened in 1998, replacing a jewelry store and a shop that
sold herbal teas.
Almost immediately, the owners ran into trouble with the San Diego Air
Pollution Control District -- and with some of the
neighbors, too. In the past three years, the district has received
nearly 200 complaints about Phil's, according to court documents.
Then there were the confrontations between Pace and his neighbors, and
Pace and county attorneys, and Pace and pollution
inspectors. One inspector, Steven Evans, filed a court declaration
saying Pace "cursed me obscenely and flicked the hat off my head."
Other neighbors also have had tussles with Pace, and at least two have
obtained restraining orders against him.
Pace denied attacking Evans. As for the restraining orders, Pace
dismissed them as "a plot to try to get me in jail."
The controversy came to a head in March when the air pollution control
district took Pace and Loya to court. The eight-day trial
included testimony from neighbors, district investigators and Pace, who
said he was the victim of inspectors who were either
biased or incompetent, or both.
Pace didn't stay for the whole trial, opting to avoid the courtroom
after receiving a scolding from the judge. Kozul, the
fragrance-shop owner, had accused him of blowing kisses at her while she testified.
Pace denies blowing kisses. He says he has a facial tic.
In his March 30 ruling, LaVoy found "numerous occasions" where Phil's
B.B.Q. violated nuisance and pollution standards. In addition to
the fines, the judge also imposed a restraining order prohibiting Pace
from coming within 3 feet of anyone who testified against
him.
Pace called the ruling "totally unfair" but says it won't prevent him
from reopening a restaurant that will be "just as good or better"
than it was before it closed.
That's good news to Art Huskey, 60, who works in the neighborhood and
was a regular customer.
"It was a fabulous eatery," the real estate broker said.
Pace's critics aren't eager to witness Phil's new incarnation.
Said Jay Goodwin, who sells televisions and stereo equipment next door:
"I've been here 45 years, and I've never seen anything shake
up a neighborhood like Phil Pace."
Credit: STAFF WRITER
Yez
[...]
> I hate to rock your world, but maybe, just maybe, seeing one very
> slanted, obviously staged, news blurb isn't the whole story...
> The Judge in this case fined Phil $200K for contempt. That should
> tell you a lot about what kind of person Phil is.
>
> Mike
OK, I read the article, (thanks Alan) Phil was *threatened* with
contempt, not cited. The fine was for something else. He ought to stick
to his guns just to irritate the control monsters in the neighborhood.
He fixed the smoke problem, that (to me) was a very real nuisance, the
rest is pure harassment.
'rena
--
Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Making of an American President
by J. H. Hatfield, Mark Crispin Miller
http://www.amazon.com/ key 'Fortunate Son' into search box
ST
residents to abolish basketball goals in the neighborhood was successful
because the neighbors didn't like the noise of the bouncing ball and loud
kids.
it sounds like phil has similar neighbors. stand up for phil, if we don't
then none of us will be able to play basketball.
"Yez" <yez...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:Xns917CE9B93C46B...@209.155.56.91...
Mike Christensen
[article deleted]
Thanks Alan for finding this. My post was based on what I'd heard from a few
members of the Mission Hills Business Association and what I'd read from a
different SDUT article. The numbers mentioned in that article were $200K "for
Phil's behavior in court", which I assumed was contempt, and $1M for future
violations.
Mike
Mike Christensen
> Mike Christensen wrote on sdnet.eats:
>
> [...]
>
> > I hate to rock your world, but maybe, just maybe, seeing one very
> > slanted, obviously staged, news blurb isn't the whole story...
> > The Judge in this case fined Phil $200K for contempt. That should
> > tell you a lot about what kind of person Phil is.
> >
> > Mike
>
> OK, I read the article, (thanks Alan) Phil was *threatened* with
> contempt, not cited.
As I said, the original SDUT article (which I'm recalling from my admittedly
flawed memory, and wasn't the article Alan quoted) stated that he was fined
$200K for his "behavior in court", which I assumed was contempt. I guess the
original SDUT article wasn't technically correct (what a surprise...).
> The fine was for something else. He ought to stick
> to his guns just to irritate the control monsters in the neighborhood.
> He fixed the smoke problem, that (to me) was a very real nuisance, the
> rest is pure harassment.
Perhaps you'd feel differently had Phil decided to open his restaurant
next to your favorite vegetarian place? Or next to where you work? Or upwind
from where you live? I bet then that you'd think these "control monsters" were
saints. Not that they are, mind you...
Mike
JimLane
I'm betting that there is more than enough complaint being
generated by the traffic in the area. Phil's draws more traffic
than the next six places combined in that little area. That
impacts the local fuddy-duddies living in the area and their
freinds who want to drop in. Poor babies, having to walk an extra
block. And the other restaurants are impacted by this.
Although I can fault the drivers, some of their behavior is
bizarre at best, like the one clown who was cutting u-turns in
the street chasing anyone moving in the area to find a parking
spot. He ended up making shorter or longer ovals in the middle of
the street.
It was a sight worth consuming an extra onion-ring or two and
then getting up as he arrived to leave in my car just out front,
when he knew I had been watching his comedic driving.
jim
On 20 Dec 2001 10:38:10 -0800, mik...@west.sun.com (Mike
Christensen) wrote:
Yez
[...]
> Perhaps you'd feel differently had Phil decided to open his
> restaurant next to your favorite vegetarian place? Or next to
> where you work? Or upwind from where you live? I bet then that
> you'd think these "control monsters" were saints. Not that they
> are, mind you...
>
> Mike
>
Believe me there is *plenty* happening in my neighborhood, I live in
the armpit of the city and we are tightly packed in. We have those
hideous charcoal barbecues in every single back yard and too many
people have wood burning fireplaces, there is no attempt by any of
these folks to attenuate their smoke like Phil did. I just turn on the
Hepa until it abates rather than run around trying to make everyone
else adapt to my style and sensibilities.
'rena in El Cajon
Mike Christensen
> a friend is the head of a neighborhood association. a push by several of the
> residents to abolish basketball goals in the neighborhood was successful
> because the neighbors didn't like the noise of the bouncing ball and loud
> kids.
If "several" of the residents were pushing for it, I'd assume it was a problem.
Why do you assume that there was no problem or the problem was trivial?
Your position is that allowing people to be inconsiderate of neighbors is
preferential to any kind of regulation?
> it sounds like phil has similar neighbors. stand up for phil, if we don't
> then none of us will be able to play basketball.
I can think of at least two or three businesses that were essentially driven
out of business due to smoke from Phil's. Why is Phil's business so much more
noble than those? Because you like BBQ? Because you don't like regulation
in any form? Had Phil simply complied with regulations, he wouldn't have been
fined, he wouldn't have had nearly the hostility he's faced with now and those
businesses and his would probably be thriving.
Phil brought 90% of this on himself. To blame the neighbors or claim that
supporting Phil is some kind of noble cause is ludicrous.
Mike
JimLane
Christensen) wrote:
>I can think of at least two or three businesses that were essentially driven
>out of business due to smoke from Phil's. Why is Phil's business so much more
>noble than those? Because you like BBQ? Because you don't like regulation
>in any form? Had Phil simply complied with regulations, he wouldn't have been
>fined, he wouldn't have had nearly the hostility he's faced with now and those
>businesses and his would probably be thriving.
>Mike
Name 'em, if you can prove that Phil's aroma was the cause.
Otherwise, I'll bet it has to do with the fact that their
customers couldn't find parking. Or . . .
BTW, every business which is failing, well most of them, always
find someone else to blame for their demise. They just can't seem
to look into the mirror and see their own faces.
jim
Mike Christensen
> On 20 Dec 2001 15:16:40 -0800, mik...@west.sun.com (Mike
> Christensen) wrote:
>
>
> >I can think of at least two or three businesses that were essentially driven
> >out of business due to smoke from Phil's. Why is Phil's business so much more
> >noble than those? Because you like BBQ? Because you don't like regulation
> >in any form? Had Phil simply complied with regulations, he wouldn't have been
> >fined, he wouldn't have had nearly the hostility he's faced with now and those
> >businesses and his would probably be thriving.
>
> >Mike
>
> Name 'em, if you can prove that Phil's aroma was the cause.
Of course, if I could do that, I could help them get damages in court... ;-)
No, no, I'm just a thankfully distant, bemused observer...
One I was thinking of was the open-air theater. Of course, the owner shot
himself in the foot by calling in the fire marshall's on Phil, and they ended
up closing him down. But, his business had been down a lot due to the smoke
and I think he just gave up. I thought that Maltese had shut down (I haven't
been in that neighborhood for over a year and a half), but evidently they've
survived. Last time I ate there, the owner wasn't optimistic about
staying open due to the loss of business from the open-air theater.
> Otherwise, I'll bet it has to do with the fact that their
> customers couldn't find parking. Or . . .
Yep. Parking sucks in that neighborhood, and has since at least the 70's.
And don't get me started on the Parking Enforcement Nazi's (see, I can rail
against regulations too... ;-)
> BTW, every business which is failing, well most of them, always
> find someone else to blame for their demise. They just can't seem
> to look into the mirror and see their own faces.
Yep. That's why I said "essentially" not "were"...
And, before anyone starts thinking that I have it "in" for Phil, I really
do not. I hope he's wildly successful and lives in peace and harmony with
his neighbors. And, I would be willing to say that Phil's is the best BBQ
in San Diego. But, with the caveat that that isn't a very high bar to reach...
Mike