Blood on 17...
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
I posted this to this group as well as alt.peeves, but didn't cross-post.
I thought that would be crossing just one too many lines. I try to keep
myself from crossing too many lines in any one day.
ObSo: So, it started out as a "normal" menstrual period. I was
resigned to me obligatory one week a month without sex. Since Kathy
started taking birth control pills a coupla years ago (just to keep
her periods regular and to moderate intensity. Her tubes were tied
about 20+ years ago.) it has been pretty much like clockwork.
About half way through the week, things started downhill. Instead
of tapering off, the flow got heavier. I started getting reports of
"clots the size of a small fist". (men love hearing this degree of
descriptive detail of their mate's menstruation)
This went on for a few days -- getting worse rather than better.
She had to change her hygine-product-of-choice hourly, all through
the day and night.
I suggested, hesitantly, that she might actually call the doctor.
She was concerned that the doctor would do a pelvic exam. It had
been 20+ years that she had been able to avoid these procedures and
didn't want to ruin her record. Finally, she was so weak from blood
loss that she could not make it the 20 feet from the bed to the
toilet without my help. She called the doctor and made an
appointment for the next day [1].
I went to town to get some body-strengthening, blood-building foods
for her. I came home and began preparing something for her to eat.
I heard a crash from the bedroom/bathroom area. I went in to find
her laying on the floor in her own puke.
Normally, I like to let people make their own decisions; but I was
seeing my sexual partner approaching a condition where continued sex
would not be nearly as interesting and, perhaps, even illegal. I
called the doctor and said that I was moving the appointment up to
*now*.
I managed to get her dressed (as it turns out, this was not
necessary) and managed to get her down the stairs (now stained with
blood. Anybody know how to get blood stains out of redwood?
Never mind. I'll be rebuilding the porch and stairs in the next year
or so) and into the back of the VW van, on the floor. Sitting in
the seat was just not an option for her at this point.
I started off driving at something approaching the speed of light.
Given that the roads, here, are narrow and twisty; and a stockly
suspended VW van handles almost as well as a 10 story building
during an earthquake; this was no easy feat. For this first time,
though, I got no complaint about my driving from Kathy. She was
fairly inert.
I made it a point to break every traffic law that I could think of:
The posted speed, the basic speed law, following too close and
passing by crossing a double yellow line. I'm sure that there were
others, too. It was kinda difficult to stay focused on the
California Vehicle Code at that point.
Just as I got to Boulder Creek, I remembered the tire. I pulled
into the gas station and checked it. It seemed to have held the
pressure. Then I checked the spare. It had leaked down to about 20
PSI. I filled the spare and was off, being mindful of the condition
of the tire.
I had made it to 17, getting on at Sims road. I stayed in the right
lane, doing a reasonable 55, but was pumping absurd amounts of
adrenaline. We were just a few minutes away from the doctor's
office if the traffic wasn't too bad. Just before the Passatiempo
off ramp, it happened: <PIIIIIIeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww> The few
steel belts that were holding the tire together, gave up in
exhaustion.
"OK," I thought to myself, "I can get this changed in 5 minutes." I
notified what-little-life-there-was-in-the-back-of-the-van of what
was happening, then set about changing the tire. I had to yank the
front passenger seat out to get the jack and found a 4-way tire iron
behind the driver's seat.
The 4-way had one end with a screwdriver blade. Good thing, cuz
there were those damnable wheel covers on each tire. I found the
best fitting end and applied it to the lug bolt and turned ... or
tried to turn it. [3] I'm 6'5" and about 200# (mass) +/- 20#. I
have reasonable strength. I could do nothing to convince the bolt
to loosen.
I set the opposite end of the 4-way on the jack, then jumped on one
of the arms of the wrench. <POP> Finally! Moved to the next one
and tried the same thing. <POP> Success! Then the third. Nothing.
Well, that is not *absolutely* correct. Actually, I managed to
slightly round the hex on the bolt. Same thing happened with the
other 2.
Well, *that* isn't working!
I clearly had to do something different. I had some choices:
1) I could sit there and watch Kathy ooze her life blood all
over the floor of the van. (I didn't want the floor ruined)
2) I could get to a call box or a phone and call somebody. (I
didn't know exactly *who* to call; and, to me, walking is
an unnatural act -- somewhere below molesting little boys
or selling used cars)
I guess that the condition of my van floor was the most important to
me. I walked to the Passitiempo Inn and used their pay phone.
First I tried calling a friend of mine who is into VW vans ands is
smart enough to carry the appropriate tools with him. He wasn't
home, but I got to waste one of my few quarters listening to his
answering machine.
Then I called Kathy's doctor. It was after 5, by then, but his
answering service put me through to him. I explained the
situation. I was gonna be a bit tardy because I had to get a tow
truck out there to break the bolts loose. He said "Well, if you can
be here in the next half hour ..."
Adrenaline flowing freely and frustration well beyond what is
reasonable for a caged rat, I quietly exploded. Then, realizing
that I was gonna get no help from him, I just said "Never mind,
Less." and slammed the phone down. Satisfying, but useless.
I had 2 quarters left -- all of the money that I had with me. I
called a tow company and told them the problem. The dispatcher
asked "And how will you pay?" <GULP!> "Can you bill me?" I asked,
already knowing the answer. "I'm sorry" she said.
Realizing that calling for a tow truck wasn't going to make it, I
walked (!!!!!!!!) back to the van. I informed the gray, inert mass
in the back of the van of what was happening. Then I started
flagging down passing VW's.
It was commute time, but there were still precious few. All but
those with lone females stopped (well *that's* not a good way to
pick up babes). None had either a tire iron or the time to help.
Finally, in desperation, I flagged down a CHP. I asked if he had a
tire iron. Yep -- and it fit! I supported the opposite end and
jumped on an arm. Nothing.
I asked if he could call a tow truck. I made the mistake of telling
him the reason for the urgency. "I'm trying to get my wife to the
doctor." He looked at the van and, seeing nothing, questioned my
sanity (something that I do all of the time. It doesn't help.)
"Where is she?" he asked. "In the back."
Uh, oh -- now, instead of a motorist needs assistance, this is a
adrenaline pumping, every-crew-in-the-county, lights-and-sirens,
tie-up-traffic call.
ME: Can you call a tow truck so that I can get them to break the
bolts loose and be on my way?
CHP: It will take them 45 minutes to an hour to get here. How about
if I call an ambulance?
ME: A tow truck will be fine.
CHP: Given her condition, I think that she should be given immediate
medical attention. Then we can get a tow truck out here.
ME: (thinking for a second) OK, but can you call the tow truck,
first?
Apparently all that he heard was "OK". He talked to his shoulder as
he walked back to his car and got a rather large satchel from the
trunk. He brought this bag back to the van and started opening
various compartments, looking for something.
Recognizing that we are dealing with a "bleeding medical emergency"
(as opposed to a "broken bone medical emergency" or a "no breathing
medical emergency"), I asked "Looking for a bandaid?" Somewhat
flustered, he mumbled some comment about it having been a long time
since he had to use this medical kit. I'm sure that he said that to
instill confidence.
Finally he pulled out an oxygen mask, then dragged out a small
oxygen bottle and regulator. He took this special equipment into
the van with him. He hooked the hose to the bottle, turned on the
bottle, adjusted the regulator and put the mask on a fairly comatose
Kathy.
The bottle was on the seat, above Kathy's head. I mentioned that a
passing bus might cause sufficient wind to rock the van and knock
the bottle off the seat and onto Kathy's head -- moving this to a
"concussion medical emergency That actually might have been an
improvement, cuz they just tend to send concussion patients home and
tell people to keep an eye on them.
About this time, a full size diesel-snorting fire truck pulled up.
3 guys got out and piled into the back of the van with Kathy and
started trying to get get some answers from her. The CHP and I were
standing outside the van. I asked the cop if we should grease up
and squeeze in, too.
One of the firemen, apparently seeing the uselessness of trying to
get answers from somebody who just doesn't give a shit, got out to
get some answers from me. That firemen were there at all was kinda
amazing to me. Neither Kathy nor the van was on fire.
An ambulance arrived. 2 attendants get out and, without the aid of
grease, get in the back of the van. The firemen manage to get out.
Now, 3 more CHP's show up. And me without donuts! Let me tell you
-- I kept my arms in the air! All that weaponry and adrenaline.
The ambulance attendants exchanged their oxygen bottle and mask for
the CHP's. They looked exactly the same as the set that the cop had
used. Maybe it was just better oxygen.
The CHP's and the firemen are standing around, talking about various
testosterone/adrenaline pumping macho stuff.
Still no tow truck.
The ambulance attendants bring over a gurney and manage to get Kathy
on it. One of them mentioned nitro glycerin. I yelled "NO NITRO
GLYCERIN!!!!!" [4] Apparently Kathy mumbled something similar and
they understood. They put her in the ambulance and left.
Still no tow truck.
The firemen got back in their smoke-belching, overweight truck and
left.
Still no tow truck.
Then, all but the first CHP left.
Still no tow truck.
The CHP comes up to me and asks "Do you still want the tow truck?"
Lacking the proper words (or weaponry) to express my frustration, at
that moment the best I could say was "If you had called them
*first*, as I had asked you to, I would have been on my way by now."
He said that I could simply leave the van here and get a ride to the
hospital with him. I recognized that Kathy was in reasonably good
hands [5], so I opted to stay and deal with the other part of my
problems.
*Then* he called for a tow truck. He said that they should show up
in "a bit". He left me to enjoy the fumes of passing cars.
I waited there over 2 hours. I saw more than 10 tow trucks pass by
in both directions -- most were empty. Now it's dark and getting
kinda cool. This gives a whole new meaning to "boredom".
A CHP pulls up. It's one of the others that was there, earlier.
"Did the tow truck show up?" he asks. Yeah, right -- I didn't like
the color of his truck, so I sent him on his way. He called for
another truck and said that he had some paperwork to do, so he would
sit there and do it with his flashers on so the tow truck could spot
us.
We usually go to bed at about 8pm. It was approaching that hour and
I was feeling it. I tried to go to sleep, but the flashing lights
from the cop car cut right through my eyelids.
After about an hour, I told the cop that I'm gonna just drive up to
the Passitiempo Inn and park the van for the night. He said that he
just got a call from the dispatcher, saying that the tow truck is
due in about 5 more minutes.
I waited 10 minutes, then just started the van, turned on my
headlights and flashers and drove along the shoulder up to the Inn,
with the CHP behind me.
I pulled into the first parking place (which, as luck would have it,
was marked for handicapped parking. Well, the *van* was
handicapped!). After making sure that I was OK, the CHP drove off
into the night to find a donut shop or an unsuspecting motorist to
jack up.
I called another friend of mine for a ride home. While I waited for
them to arrive, I asked the desk clerk if it was OK to leave the van
there until morning, when I could get back with appropriate tools to
change the tire. He, most graciously, said that it was no problem.
This is kind of an up-scale place and, given my somewhat ratty old
van, I was a bit surprised, but pleased.
I got home about 11. The generator had run out of gas some hours
ago, so everything was dark. I always carry my mini Maglight, so I
could get into the house. I called the hospital and talked to
Kathy. She was being well taken care of with multiple tubes of
multitudes of various fluids and a staff of thousands of good
Catholics.
I finally got to sleep, comfortable in the fact that I had just
expended more tax dollars than I had paid over the previous 2 years;
when a simple tow truck would have been so much simpler and easier.
[1] This doctor has been her doctor for the past 8 years. Prior to
that, Kathy worked in his office as an intern. Prior to that, he
delivered out first 2 grandchildren. He and Kathy were supposed to
be personal friends. I would think, given that history, he would
know that she only calls when she is approaching death. Maybe that
day he was thinking about what he was gonna have for dinner ... or
his upcoming ski weekend or something equally important.
[2] The previous time that I drove the van was on the previous
Saturday morning. (I do this every week to get the 23 gallons of
gas to feed the generator for the week and to get about 6 gallons of
kerosene to feed the heater.) I noticed that the rear tire was low
so I inflated it to the proper pressure. As I filled it, I noticed
that there was a lot of chord showing. I thought to myself "Oops!
Better not use this again until I get this tire replaced."
[3] I swore an oath, at that point, to kill (well, seriously
name-call, anyway) the next person that I see installing a tire on a
passenger car with an impact wrench.
[4] Kathy has a 25 year history of high blood pressure. About 15
years ago, the doctors at Kaiser were playing with various
medicines. One of the drugs cause problems that had me take her in
to Kaiser at 11pm one night. They hooker her up with IV's
(thankfully) and gave her nitro glycerin. Her blood pressure fell
*immediately* to almost 0. They cranked up the saline solution to
bring it back up. The first reading that I saw on the way back up
was 40/20. Normal is 120/80 and when she came in, her's was
210/160. I said "Make a note: No nitro". The doctor was sweating
profusely and missed the humor.
[5] Dominican *is* the hospital where Kathy's mother died a few
years ago, but I guess that I shouldn't hold that against them --
even though they did send us an "I'm sorry that we killed your
mother" card.
Next installment: What the heck was this all about?
--
Do not underestimate your abilities. That is your boss's job.
It is your job to find ways around your boss's roadblocks.
_______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby gl...@bbs.cruzio.com http://www2.cruzio.com/~glena/
Steve Daniels (Official JBT of a.p)
On Sat, 15 Mar 1997 20:43:20 GMT, gl...@bbs.cruzio.com wrote:
>I went to town to get some body-strengthening, blood-building foods
>for her. I came home and began preparing something for her to eat.
>I heard a crash from the bedroom/bathroom area. I went in to find
>her laying on the floor in her own puke.
ObHint: This is the point where you call 911. Or don't they
have this service in oh so politically correct Santa Cruz?
>Normally, I like to let people make their own decisions; but I was
>seeing my sexual partner approaching a condition where continued sex
>would not be nearly as interesting and, perhaps, even illegal. I
>called the doctor and said that I was moving the appointment up to
>*now*.
Well. Ok.
>I managed to get her dressed (as it turns out, this was not
>necessary) and managed to get her down the stairs (now stained with
>blood. Anybody know how to get blood stains out of redwood?
>Never mind. I'll be rebuilding the porch and stairs in the next year
>or so) and into the back of the VW van, on the floor. Sitting in
>the seat was just not an option for her at this point.
You are an idiot. Or perhaps, you were and idiot is more
correct. Someone who is bleeding heavily doesn't need a VW, they
need a **!!FUCKING AMBULANCE!!**.
>I made it a point to break every traffic law that I could think of:
>The posted speed, the basic speed law, following too close and
>passing by crossing a double yellow line. I'm sure that there were
>others, too. It was kinda difficult to stay focused on the
>California Vehicle Code at that point.
Ya' know what, genius? A real ambulance, with real red lights
and a real siren, along with real paramedics who know what the
fuck they are doing can break all of those pesky traffic laws
(and here is the kicker) SAFELY.
>Just as I got to Boulder Creek, I remembered the tire. I pulled
>into the gas station and checked it. It seemed to have held the
>pressure. Then I checked the spare. It had leaked down to about 20
>PSI. I filled the spare and was off, being mindful of the condition
>of the tire.
So not only did you try to transport a critically ill person
(whom you supposedly love) in an inadequate vehicle, said vehicle
wasn't even up to it's normally substandard standard?
I'm sorry I called you an idiot. It's only my lack of vocabulary
that prevents me from calling you something worse. My apologies
to idiots everywhere.
>Just before the Passatiempo
>off ramp, it happened: <PIIIIIIeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww> The few
>steel belts that were holding the tire together, gave up in
>exhaustion.
>
>"OK," I thought to myself, "I can get this changed in 5 minutes."
And you didn't call an ambulance then either. You truly are
thick.
>The 4-way had one end with a screwdriver blade.
Sounds like just the thing for the squicking you so richly
deserve.
> 2) I could get to a call box or a phone and call somebody. (I
> didn't know exactly *who* to call; and, to me, walking is
> an unnatural act -- somewhere below molesting little boys
> or selling used cars)
>
>I guess that the condition of my van floor was the most important to
>me. I walked to the Passitiempo Inn and used their pay phone.
>
>First I tried calling a friend of mine who is into VW vans ands is
>smart enough to carry the appropriate tools with him. He wasn't
>home, but I got to waste one of my few quarters listening to his
>answering machine.
THE COPS, YOU ASSHOLE! 911! IT'S EASY! EVEN FUCKWADS LIKE YOU
CAN FIGURE THIS ONE OUT!
>He said "Well, if you can
>be here in the next half hour ..."
So he's an asshole too. Doesn't let you off the hook.
>I had 2 quarters left -- all of the money that I had with me. I
>called a tow company and told them the problem.
Maybe you're not an asshole. Maybe you're just to stupid to
live. Is this Darwin in action?
>Finally, in desperation, I flagged down a CHP.
>I asked if he could call a tow truck. I made the mistake of telling
>him the reason for the urgency. "I'm trying to get my wife to the
>doctor." He looked at the van and, seeing nothing, questioned my
>sanity (something that I do all of the time. It doesn't help.)
>"Where is she?" he asked. "In the back."
>
>Uh, oh -- now, instead of a motorist needs assistance, this is a
>adrenaline pumping, every-crew-in-the-county, lights-and-sirens,
>tie-up-traffic call.
NO FUCKING SHIT!!!
>CHP: Given her condition, I think that she should be given immediate
> medical attention. Then we can get a tow truck out here.
At last, somebody has a fucking clue. Of course it had to be a
jack booted fascist pig only concerned with seizing the property
of drug users, but at last, someone who could make the correct
decision.
>ME: (thinking for a second) OK, but can you call the tow truck,
> first?
Fuck You.
>Apparently all that he heard was "OK". He talked to his shoulder as
>he walked back to his car and got a rather large satchel from the
>trunk. He brought this bag back to the van and started opening
>various compartments, looking for something.
>
>Recognizing that we are dealing with a "bleeding medical emergency"
>(as opposed to a "broken bone medical emergency" or a "no breathing
>medical emergency"), I asked "Looking for a bandaid?" Somewhat
>flustered, he mumbled some comment about it having been a long time
>since he had to use this medical kit. I'm sure that he said that to
>instill confidence.
So this cop, presented with something that he was ill trained to
help with, started to do the right things, and you deride him for
it? At least he realized that it was a !!**FUCKING MEDICAL
EMERGENCY**!! and tried to help, rather than concern himself with
flat tires and German floors.
>Finally he pulled out an oxygen mask, then dragged out a small
>oxygen bottle and regulator. He took this special equipment into
>the van with him. He hooked the hose to the bottle, turned on the
>bottle, adjusted the regulator and put the mask on a fairly comatose
>Kathy.
>
>The bottle was on the seat, above Kathy's head. I mentioned that a
>passing bus might cause sufficient wind to rock the van and knock
>the bottle off the seat and onto Kathy's head -- moving this to a
>"concussion medical emergency That actually might have been an
>improvement, cuz they just tend to send concussion patients home and
>tell people to keep an eye on them.
I found you in scruzz.general, and since then you've been posting
to peeves. I found you to be a fairly middling peever, but you
seemed to have enough clues to read. So I tolerated you, and
figured that not everyone could be a Miller, a Sholto-Douglas, a
Sercan, or even that throwback Banta. But the way you handled
this medical emergency (yes, this was an emergency, the carpet on
your floor notwithstanding) shows me that you deserve no respect
whatsoever. Either that, or this is the best troll that has ever
been dragged across my snout.
I surely have bitten hard.
>One of the firemen, apparently seeing the uselessness of trying to
>get answers from somebody who just doesn't give a shit, got out to
>get some answers from me. That firemen were there at all was kinda
>amazing to me. Neither Kathy nor the van was on fire.
Most, if not all, firemen are also paramedics. And the cop *did*
give a shit. Who was it called the paramedics? Not you,
fuckhead.
>An ambulance arrived. 2 attendants get out and, without the aid of
>grease, get in the back of the van. The firemen manage to get out.
>Now, 3 more CHP's show up. And me without donuts! Let me tell you
>-- I kept my arms in the air! All that weaponry and adrenaline.
All they wanted to do was help, you fucking loser. Why don't you
and Dean have a Daisy chain. Neither one of you have a clue, it
would be a match made in heaven.
>The ambulance attendants exchanged their oxygen bottle and mask for
>the CHP's. They looked exactly the same as the set that the cop had
>used. Maybe it was just better oxygen.
>
>The CHP's and the firemen are standing around, talking about various
>testosterone/adrenaline pumping macho stuff.
>
>Still no tow truck.
Ya' know? At this point, your rusted out, underpowered, piece of
shit German roadblock was the least of anybodies worries. Except
of course, yours. What's that piece of shit worth, anyway?
$1500.00? I've got guitars worth more than that.
>Then, all but the first CHP left.
>
>Still no tow truck.
>
>The CHP comes up to me and asks "Do you still want the tow truck?"
>Lacking the proper words (or weaponry) to express my frustration, at
>that moment the best I could say was "If you had called them
>*first*, as I had asked you to, I would have been on my way by now."
I can't believe it. I really can't believe it. If this had been
me, I'd have been in the ambulance, and fuck the van. I hope she
gives you the ol' heave ho, seeing how you must be *so* committed
to this relationship.
Here's my SNAG side coming out, but I really feel you have your
priorities screwed up.
>I recognized that Kathy was in reasonably good
>hands . . .
Yeah, once they got her away from you.
>*Then* he called for a tow truck. He said that they should show up
>in "a bit". He left me to enjoy the fumes of passing cars.
>
>I waited there over 2 hours. I saw more than 10 tow trucks pass by
>in both directions -- most were empty. Now it's dark and getting
>kinda cool. This gives a whole new meaning to "boredom".
Poor baby. I bet you *never* had to put up with such
inconvenience until you met up with the bitch. How *dare* she
subject you to such a travail? I'd dump her, for both your
sakes.
>We usually go to bed at about 8pm. It was approaching that hour and
>I was feeling it. I tried to go to sleep, but the flashing lights
>from the cop car cut right through my eyelids.
Those fucking CHP guys are *so* inconsiderate.
>After making sure that I was OK, the CHP drove off
>into the night to find a donut shop or an unsuspecting motorist to
>jack up.
They went above and beyond the call of duty for you, asshole.
They didn't have to wait around for you to get *rescued*, once
they took care of your woman, their job was done, and they had
every right to just leave you by the side of the road and to your
own devices. Not that you would have been able to figure out
what your options were then, either.
Were you abused as a child?
>I called another friend of mine for a ride home. While I waited for
>them to arrive, I asked the desk clerk if it was OK to leave the van
>there until morning, when I could get back with appropriate tools to
>change the tire. He, most graciously, said that it was no problem.
>This is kind of an up-scale place and, given my somewhat ratty old
>van, I was a bit surprised, but pleased.
Your woman has had a major bleeding incident, has been taken off
in an ambulance, and all your worried about is your inadequate
vehicle.
Rot in hell.
>I got home about 11. The generator had run out of gas some hours
>ago, so everything was dark.
The horror!
>I called the hospital and talked to
>Kathy.
Big of you, that.
>I finally got to sleep, comfortable in the fact that I had just
>expended more tax dollars than I had paid over the previous 2 years;
>when a simple tow truck would have been so much simpler and easier.
Oh, yeah. Why should trained professionals respond when your
love can bleed to death in the privacy of your own vehicle?
>Do not underestimate your abilities.
Well you certainly haven't done that.
This has *got* to be a troll, and I must be flopping at the end
of Glens line Nobody could be this clueless and live. For long.
--
Yes, but I've gotten much more assertive since then. This time
I'll take trophies.
Deirdre Sholto-Douglas in alt.peeves 3/12/97
JCDill
dan...@cdsnet.net (Steve Daniels (Official JBT of a.p)) mentions:
>>I managed to get her dressed (as it turns out, this was not
>>necessary) and managed to get her down the stairs (now stained with
>>blood. Anybody know how to get blood stains out of redwood?
>>Never mind. I'll be rebuilding the porch and stairs in the next year
>>or so) and into the back of the VW van, on the floor. Sitting in
>>the seat was just not an option for her at this point.
>
>You are an idiot. Or perhaps, you were and idiot is more
>correct. Someone who is bleeding heavily doesn't need a VW, they
>need a **!!FUCKING AMBULANCE!!**.
>
er... Steve, how far up the mountain do YOU live?
Lets say you are 1/2 hour from the nearest ambulance. Do you want to
wait *over* 1/2 hour for them to arrive (assuming they don't get lost
on the maze of roads into your place), THEN still be as far from the
doctor/hospital as you were 1/2 hour ago, or do you want to start
driving NOW???
Still, it might have been a good idea to stop at the fire-house in BC
and ask them to take her the rest of the way in their vehicle, I
imagine it had better tires...
hindsight is 20/20
I am glad to hear that she is doing OK.
jc
--
My first name has 2 letters, There's only one letter "J".
My last name's a bit longer, It just worked out that way.
I hate spam, and UCE, and all that unwanted mess.
So, to reply, you have to edit, my return address.
Brian Trosko
Steve Daniels (Official JBT of a.p) <dan...@cdsnet.net> wrote:
: You are an idiot. Or perhaps, you were and idiot is more
: correct. Someone who is bleeding heavily doesn't need a VW, they
: need a **!!FUCKING AMBULANCE!!**.
Well, what they need is medical attention, and whichever way is going to
get them that the fastest is what you do. When my father's got an
emergency at the practice, like a child refusing to breathe, he's been
occasionally known to throw the kid into the truck, haul ass towards
Community General Osteopathic, and call ahead on the cell phone to let the
cops know he's driving like a bat out of hell down route 80, and why they
should alert the guys at the ER, and give him an escort instead of
pulling him over.
See, under certain circumstances, it's possible for you to drive someone
to the hospital faster, even much faster, than it's possible for the
hospital to get the ambulance out to you and then return to the hospital.
: Ya' know what, genius? A real ambulance, with real red lights
: and a real siren, along with real paramedics who know what the
: fuck they are doing can break all of those pesky traffic laws
: (and here is the kicker) SAFELY.
And if it takes them a half a fucking hour to get to your house, you're
sort of out of luck, aren't you?
Let me recount a little story of a guy in Dallas who called 911 because
his mother stopped breathing. The 911 folks wanted to speak to her, but
he told her they couldn't because, well, she couldn't breath, and was
totally incoherent. The 911 droid asked him what he thought the cause of
the problem was, and he replied, "How the hell do I know?" The droid then
berated him for cursing at her, and the two of them got into an argument
that lasted until the receptionist sent an ambulance, which arrive too
late to save said mother. This is an actual occurrence, and
a reference can be provided.
Keeping such things in mind, I have no problem whatsoever if someone wants
to pop the moveable wounded into their car and skeedaddle without waiting
for some nameless schlep at the other end of a phone line to take things
seriously enough to send an ambulance. In the words of Public Enemy, "911
is a joke."
: I'm sorry I called you an idiot. It's only my lack of vocabulary
: that prevents me from calling you something worse.
: seemed to have enough clues to read. So I tolerated you, and
: figured that not everyone could be a Miller, a Sholto-Douglas, a
: Sercan, or even that throwback Banta.
If your lack of vocabularly precludes insults more vindictively cutting
than 'idiot,' I'd say that's further support for you conclusion.
: me, I'd have been in the ambulance, and fuck the van. I hope she
: gives you the ol' heave ho, seeing how you must be *so* committed
: to this relationship.
Well, this I agree with. Maybe it's just because I find emergency rooms
to be a good time, but I'd certainly have been in the back of the
ambulance oberserving whatever gory procedures they'd seen fit to perform.
Brian "That's okay, Agent Kujan. I like cops" Trosko
Steve Daniels (Official JBT of a.p)
On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 11:23:01 GMT, dan...@cdsnet.net (Steve
Daniels (Official JBT of a.p)) wrote:
>You know, If i were to cut someone for their pointing abilities,
Posting. I meant posting. It's true, if you spell flame
someone, you will make a mistake yourself.
--
Only a moron would believe any of this crap.
mave...@lakeshoreconn.com in alt.food.mcdonalds
Steve Daniels (Official JBT of a.p)
On 16 Mar 1997 01:44:01 -0700, Brian Trosko
<btr...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Steve Daniels (Official JBT of a.p) <dan...@cdsnet.net> wrote:
>
>: You are an idiot. Or perhaps, you were and idiot is more
>: correct. Someone who is bleeding heavily doesn't need a VW, they
>: need a **!!FUCKING AMBULANCE!!**.
>
>Well, what they need is medical attention, and whichever way is going to
>get them that the fastest is what you do.
Agreed. How do you explain this fucksticks preoccupation with
his vehicle? It seems to be the only thing he was really worried
about.
>See, under certain circumstances, it's possible for you to drive someone
>to the hospital faster, even much faster, than it's possible for the
>hospital to get the ambulance out to you and then return to the hospital.
Then you should know better. Or perhaps not. My father was a
businessman his whole working life, and I don't know shit about
it. What I do know is that an ambulance crew could start
treatment whilst driving the poor woman to the ER. This is
something that can't be done in a Westfallia. Or whatever the
fuck GlenLoser decided to transport his beloved in.
I'd be checking the beneficiaries on life insurance accounts, if
I were to investigate this incident. Seems like malice
aforethought to me.
But I'm a suspicious motherfucker.
>And if it takes them a half a fucking hour to get to your house, you're
>sort of out of luck, aren't you?
And if your vehicle can't make it down the mountain because you
have neglected its maintenance, well, that's obviously a better
choice that calling the professionals in the first place, isn't
it. <Insert irony here> Not. <Just in case you didn't get it>
>Let me recount a little story of a guy in Dallas who called 911 because
>his mother stopped breathing.
<incompetent 911 response snipped>
That doesn't make the "Call 911" response the wrong thing to do.
More often than not, the response from this kind of call will be
rapid, right, and life saving. Just because Texas (or were you
talking about Dallas, Oregon?) fucked it up is no reason to think
that it will be fucked up all over the US. Or even in
California.
>Keeping such things in mind, I have no problem whatsoever if someone wants
>to pop the moveable wounded into their car and skeedaddle without waiting
>for some nameless schlep at the other end of a phone line to take things
>seriously enough to send an ambulance. In the words of Public Enemy, "911
>is a joke."
And if you called for 911 assistance from where 'Public Enemy'
calls, I wouldn't expect a great response either. But Glenn was
(as far as I know, I'm sure we'll be hearing about it) calling
from somewhere in the Santa Cruz hills. How many false alarms
come from this zip code?
>: I'm sorry I called you an idiot. It's only my lack of vocabulary
>: that prevents me from calling you something worse.
>
>: seemed to have enough clues to read. So I tolerated you, and
>: figured that not everyone could be a Miller, a Sholto-Douglas, a
>: Sercan, or even that throwback Banta.
>
>If your lack of vocabularly precludes insults more vindictively cutting
>than 'idiot,' I'd say that's further support for you conclusion.
You know, If i were to cut someone for their pointing abilities,
I would have something better to say than "support for you
conclusion." But that's just me. You may be Differently
Qualified.
>: me, I'd have been in the ambulance, and fuck the van. I hope she
>: gives you the ol' heave ho, seeing how you must be *so* committed
>: to this relationship.
>
>Well, this I agree with. Maybe it's just because I find emergency rooms
>to be a good time, but I'd certainly have been in the back of the
>ambulance oberserving whatever gory procedures they'd seen fit to perform.
I'd have been there because I'd have been worried sick. But
that's my SNAG side coming out, if it were your woman, I wouldn't
care either.
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <332b9592....@news.concentric.net>, jjjj...@ix.netcom.com (JCDill) writes:
Oh, good -- it *was* J.C. Dill. It's nice to get one right, once in a
while.
> Lets say you are 1/2 hour from the nearest ambulance. Do you want to
> wait *over* 1/2 hour for them to arrive (assuming they don't get lost
> on the maze of roads into your place), THEN still be as far from the
> doctor/hospital as you were 1/2 hour ago, or do you want to start
> driving NOW???
When we moved up here, I realized that we weren't gonna be able to make
much use of any emergency services. Given that we are both *reasonably*
profeccient, medically, and we made it a point to have all that we might
normally need, it didn't seem to be a major problem.
Turns out that we didn't have an appropriate band-aid for this bleeding
incident, no way to apply pressure or a tourniquet ... but now we have
some drugs for this type of situation, should it arrise, agian.
> Still, it might have been a good idea to stop at the fire-house in BC
> and ask them to take her the rest of the way in their vehicle, I
> imagine it had better tires...
>
> hindsight is 20/20
The hindsight was that I shoulda changed the tire when I first saw it.
Given the roads between BC and Dominican, the ambulance could not have
done much better than I could have. They might have been able to beat
me by 5 minutes. It was not the kind of situation where those minutes
would have ment much.
> I am glad to hear that she is doing OK.
Thanks. I'll pass that along.
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
(Steve Daniels (Official JBT of a.p)), with his panties in a bunch, writes :
<flames snipped>
On a scale of 1 to 10, I'm afraid that I can only give you a 4 on this
one. To get any more points than that, you would have to aquire a
sense of humor about the universe in general. The attempt at the warmth
of the flames was appreciated, though.
You would have also gotten more points had you posted the flames to
alt.peeves. I'm willing to give you those points with the assumption
that you just didn't know any better.
If I had actually been more concerned about my van than I was about
Kathy, then I woulda simply dumped her in *her* car and driven that
down to the doctor's office. As J.C. Dill(?) indicated, calling an
ambulance would have added another half an hour to the trip. My
mistake was that I didn't change the tire when I first discovered the
problem. Had I done that, I woulda had Kathy in the doctor's office
before it closed.
You know those pills that the doctor prescribed for you? Take one.
He intended them to be used at times like this.
Paul Gensheimer
In <E756...@cruzio.com> gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
>When we moved up here, I realized that we weren't gonna be able to make
>much use of any emergency services. Given that we are both *reasonably*
>profeccient, medically, ^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsflash, Glen: You are _not_ medically profeccient(sic), in
any sense of the word. Someone who is medically profeccient(sic)
would know enough to dial 911. Hell, even children and retards
have enough sense to dial 911 in this situation.
>The hindsight was that I shoulda changed the tire when I first saw it.
No, the hindsight is that you should have friggin' DIALLED
911, you moron! How long will it take for this to penetrate
that thick, bony brow of yours?
paulg
-----
"You aren't that formidable, and everyone knows it."
Andy Banta (ba...@abingdon.eng.sun.com) tells me what's what
on alt.peeves
Tim May
In article <ayseE77...@netcom.com>, ay...@netcom.com (Ayse Sercan) wrote:
> jjjj...@ix.netcom.com (JCDill) wrote:
> >>You are an idiot. Or perhaps, you were and idiot is more
> >>correct. Someone who is bleeding heavily doesn't need a VW, they
> >>need a **!!FUCKING AMBULANCE!!**.
> >>
> >er... Steve, how far up the mountain do YOU live?
> >
> >Lets say you are 1/2 hour from the nearest ambulance. Do you want to
> >wait *over* 1/2 hour for them to arrive (assuming they don't get lost
> >on the maze of roads into your place), THEN still be as far from the
> >doctor/hospital as you were 1/2 hour ago, or do you want to start
> >driving NOW???
>
> But the important difference is that an ambulance would have trained
> medical professionals in it, along with oxygen, medications, and a very
> comfortable bed. They could have stabilized the condition while getting
> to the hospital. If Glen had even merely met them at Highway 9, or
> somesuch, it would have been better than what he did.
I read Glenn Appleby's "peeve" and concluded it was all just a troll.
The long, repeated points about how he did various things to keep his VW
bus from getting blood on it, the way he let the love of his life (?) bleed
out in the passenger seat while he searched for a tire iron, then searched
for a phone to call a tow truck (not an ambulance, a _tow truck_)...well,
it all screamed "troll."
If it wasn't a troll, then let's just pray that the love of his life is
past childbearing stage.
--Tim May
--
Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tc...@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Ayse Sercan
jjjj...@ix.netcom.com (JCDill) wrote:
>>You are an idiot. Or perhaps, you were and idiot is more
>>correct. Someone who is bleeding heavily doesn't need a VW, they
>>need a **!!FUCKING AMBULANCE!!**.
>>
>
>Lets say you are 1/2 hour from the nearest ambulance. Do you want to
>wait *over* 1/2 hour for them to arrive (assuming they don't get lost
>on the maze of roads into your place), THEN still be as far from the
>doctor/hospital as you were 1/2 hour ago, or do you want to start
>driving NOW???
But the important difference is that an ambulance would have trained
medical professionals in it, along with oxygen, medications, and a very
comfortable bed. They could have stabilized the condition while getting
to the hospital. If Glen had even merely met them at Highway 9, or
somesuch, it would have been better than what he did.
--
ay...@netcom.com
"In truth, the economic motive for implementing institutionalized
chumminess is so vile that it all but eradicates the sweetness of a smile
from a stranger." -- The San Jose Metro rails against Safeway's policy of
being polite to customers.
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>correct. Someone who is bleeding heavily doesn't need a VW, they
>>need a **!!FUCKING AMBULANCE!!**.
>>
I've lived up in those selfsame mountains, and let me assure
you that while I owned and drove several older VWs, I would
not have spent a single March up there without one that would
reliably make it to Dominican Hospital at flank speed. And
faced with the same situation, would probably still have elected
to have the amby meet me at the Safeway in Felton, or the
fire house in BC.
This is reason #87 why Glen is not a member of the Bavarian
Clueminatti.
>I am glad to hear that she is doing OK.
Not much thanks to Glen.
JZ
JCDill
zur...@solaris.engr.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) mentions:
>JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>I am glad to hear that she is doing OK.
>
>Not much thanks to Glen.
really? quoting from his post:
<quote>
This went on for a few days -- getting worse rather than better.
She had to change her hygine-product-of-choice hourly, all through
the day and night.
I suggested, hesitantly, that she might actually call the doctor.
She was concerned that the doctor would do a pelvic exam. It had
been 20+ years that she had been able to avoid these procedures and
didn't want to ruin her record. Finally, she was so weak from blood
loss that she could not make it the 20 feet from the bed to the
toilet without my help. She called the doctor and made an
appointment for the next day [1].
</quote>
Sounds like his beloved wanted to see the doctor or the hospital even
less, and that he had to convince her to even make a phone call, where
she made an appointment for THE NEXT DAY!!!
Glen did fine. Had his beloved asked him to call an ambulance, he
would have. Had she let him, I am sure they would have been at the
doctors hours earlier, and not had such an emergency situation
develop.
You don't live in his house, you don't know his beloved, you don't
know their lifestyle, you can't speak till you have driven a mile in
*his* van (to pharaphrase an old saying). Lay off. He didn't enjoy
the experience, and he is sure not enjoying your second guessing him.
I am sure *you* have never made a mistake in a panic situation, nooo
you are perfect right? I'll believe it when I see you walk on water.
Jeff Zurschmeide
JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Sounds like his beloved wanted to see the doctor or the hospital even
>less, and that he had to convince her to even make a phone call, where
>she made an appointment for THE NEXT DAY!!!
Many folks delay their own care till they die. See, inter alia,
Jim Henson. It's nominally the job of the people around one to push
one in the right direction when things get bad and the capacity to
see things clearly is diminished. That Glen did this is not cause
for a medal.
>Glen did fine. Had his beloved asked him to call an ambulance, he
>would have. Had she let him, I am sure they would have been at the
>doctors hours earlier, and not had such an emergency situation
>develop.
Glen did fine up to a point. Then he completely fucked up. And he
fucked up, I might add, in an entirely stupid, banal, petty, and
completely inappropriate way. Especially for a man of his years
who ought to fucking well know better. There's no fool like an
old fool.
>You don't live in his house, you don't know his beloved, you don't
>know their lifestyle, you can't speak till you have driven a mile in
>*his* van (to pharaphrase an old saying).
Ah, but I *have* lived in his neighborhood. And believe me, J.C.,
life in the SLV/SannaCrooz mountains is not for the timid. Or for
the clueless, if they hope to survive. Let me ask you this, would
*you* want to have him around to get you to the hospital in an
emergency? Screwing around arguing with the highway patrol
asking for a goddamn tow truck to breka his lug nuts
while you were bleeding to death?
Not this little black duck, lemme tell you.
>Lay off. He didn't enjoy
>the experience, and he is sure not enjoying your second guessing him.
Then perhaps - maybe, just maybe - he shouldn't have posted an entire
confession of his complete addle-mindedness to
alt.dot.motherfucking.PEEVES, eh?
>I am sure *you* have never made a mistake in a panic situation, nooo
>you are perfect right? I'll believe it when I see you walk on water.
How deep? I'm a racing official up here in Oregon. I make the decision
to transport people to the hospital fairly frequently. It isn't a
tough decision, in the main. The decision to transport (or call the
motherfucking amby if your car is a total POS that you haven't
maintained and you're sitting at the Pasatiempo Inn) is simply a
matter of a few dollars. Fucking around with your wheels instead
and getting on the case of the people who have a clue can potentially
involve a much higher cost in human life. To say nothing of funeral
expenses or even much higher treatment costs because your loved
one's Golden Hour ticked away while you were beating on your
lug wrench. He was bitching today about the $200 per pint of
blood - how much did she lose all over the floor of his goddamn
van while he argued and waited for a tow truck? Maybe he's out
scraping it up and straining it through his t-shirt to save a few
bucks by putting it back into her?
He wasn't stuck in the outback of Australia all alone. Ambulances
and hospitals will set you up with a payment plan even a welfare mother
can afford. If Glen can afford an internet connection to post his
folly here, he can afford to get his wife to the ER in a timely manner.
And as for you, don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls
out again.
JZ
Bob O Brien
JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Sounds like his beloved wanted to see the doctor or the hospital even
>less, and that he had to convince her to even make a phone call, where
>she made an appointment for THE NEXT DAY!!!
Ask not for whom the clue phone rings...
So you advocate letting delirious people
make all their own health-care decisions?
Bob O`Bob
--
****Fee for reviewing unsolicited commercial mail: $500 minimum.****
Do not send email to this address. JUST DON'T DO IT.
Post a follow-up, or find another way to address me. Any email received
here may be subject to *active* SPAM countermeasures. You wouldn't like it.
JCDill
zur...@solaris.engr.sgi.com (Jeff Zurschmeide) mentions:
>Ah, but I *have* lived in his neighborhood.
so have *I*...
> And believe me, J.C.,
>life in the SLV/SannaCrooz mountains is not for the timid. Or for
>the clueless, if they hope to survive.
Lets see... I hauled water for 10 horses over Christmas that year the
pipes froze, driving to the hose in BC to fill trashcans in the back
up the pickup and then back to the horses to dump water into their
tubs, for 4 days, that year we had the big freeze. At home we were
without running water for 17 days because of a pump part that broke in
the freeze. I dealt with it, I survived.
And I know of folks like Glen. They have their own way of dealing
with things. They like living up in generator land. They like not
relying on Ambulances, or Cops, or tow trucks, or doctors, or
hospitals, and they use them as little as possible. That is their
way, who are YOU to tell them how to live?
If Glens beloved doesn't like how he dealt with getting her to a
doctor, then she can flame him. You and I have no stake in this
matter, so leave your opinion of how he treated her OUT OF IT! You
haven't walked a mile in his shoes. Maybe she has a terrifying fear
of ambulances? Maybe she would have to be unconscious before she
would allow herself to be transported in an ambulance? (no "nitro"
remember...) You don't know her like Glen knows her, and he did what
he thought was best.
Lay off.
>Then perhaps - maybe, just maybe - he shouldn't have posted an entire
>confession of his complete addle-mindedness to
>alt.dot.motherfucking.PEEVES, eh?
Oh. I didn't know that one couldn't post a peeve about hospitals and
idiots who put lug wrenches on too tight, etc., without being subject
to idiot responses by those that think that they know better how he
should have acted in this situation.
>How deep? I'm a racing official up here in Oregon.
Oh. I see. You think this is like a crash on the racetrack, where
you have signed releases authorizing you to act in your official
capacity. Well, real life isn't always that easy to deal with.
Sometimes you are dealing with people who would sue your ass off for
infringing on their right to refuse medical treatment, ever think of
that???
(ever hear of religious nuts that refuse to allow blood
transfussions?)
>He wasn't stuck in the outback of Australia all alone. Ambulances
>and hospitals will set you up with a payment plan even a welfare mother
>can afford. If Glen can afford an internet connection to post his
>folly here, he can afford to get his wife to the ER in a timely manner.
Again, you are making the mistaken assumption that it would have been
more timely if he had called an ambulance. I guess because the
ambulance company in your area knows how to find you you assume it is
like that everywhere, but I can assure you it IS NOT. Despite the
delay with the tire, I bet she still made it to the hospital faster
than if he had never put her in the van!
>And as for you, don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls
>out again.
Better an open mind than a closed one like yours.
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Lets see... I hauled water for 10 horses over Christmas that year the
>pipes froze, driving to the hose in BC to fill trashcans in the back
>up the pickup and then back to the horses to dump water into their
>tubs, for 4 days, that year we had the big freeze. At home we were
>without running water for 17 days because of a pump part that broke in
>the freeze. I dealt with it, I survived.
So you had a functioning and reliable car, did you? Good deal. I
did, too, when I lived up there. And still do now, on my farm where
we live on a well with pipes than can freeze if I don't take
simple precautions. Which I do, so they don't freeze.
In fact, I have three cars that are reliable
enough to make it to the hospital at flank speed.
>And I know of folks like Glen. They have their own way of dealing
>with things. They like living up in generator land. They like not
>relying on Ambulances, or Cops, or tow trucks, or doctors, or
>hospitals, and they use them as little as possible. That is their
>way, who are YOU to tell them how to live?
Who am I to tell them? A sensible fellow. If they want to die so they
can feel like grizzly Adams, that's fine with me. I can, however,
tell them that they're dumber than a rock if it so suits me. And it
does suit me, when they post their stupid foibles for public comment.
>If Glens beloved doesn't like how he dealt with getting her to a
>doctor, then she can flame him. You and I have no stake in this
>matter, so leave your opinion of how he treated her OUT OF IT!
No. I won't. When he leaves the group (which is all we really want)
then we'll let him live his life as he sees fit and with any luck,
the next time he's driving his van and a tire pops, he'll go
careening into a ravine and become coyote shit in short order.
>Oh. I didn't know that one couldn't post a peeve about hospitals and
>idiots who put lug wrenches on too tight, etc., without being subject
>to idiot responses by those that think that they know better how he
>should have acted in this situation.
Well, now you know. There's the door - if you don't like it, trim your
headers and leave us out of it.
>>How deep? I'm a racing official up here in Oregon.
>
>Oh. I see. You think this is like a crash on the racetrack, where
>you have signed releases authorizing you to act in your official
>capacity. Well, real life isn't always that easy to deal with.
Um, Dimbulb, (may I call you by your first name?) he's her husband,
and has the ability to legally consent to treatment on her behalf. Which,
I might add, he did, eventually.
>Sometimes you are dealing with people who would sue your ass off for
>infringing on their right to refuse medical treatment, ever think of
>that???
Look, if you were bleeding to death, I wouldn't lift a finger to help
you, OK? But when one's spouse is in need of care, one can make those
decisions on her behalf legally. And from the story, we can assume
she didn't want to die. (even if her actions make that outcome more
likely than usual.)
>Again, you are making the mistaken assumption that it would have been
>more timely if he had called an ambulance. I guess because the
>ambulance company in your area knows how to find you you assume it is
>like that everywhere, but I can assure you it IS NOT. Despite the
>delay with the tire, I bet she still made it to the hospital faster
>than if he had never put her in the van!
He was at Goddamn PASATIEMPO arguing with the cops and paramedics
about his freaking LUGNUTS. He wanted to have a tow truck come and
work on his car with no means of paying them while his wife was
bleeding. He may be a hippie, and perfectly entitled to his strange
value system, but that doesn't mean he's not a complete, utter,
incontrovertible melonhead.
And faced with melonheadedness, you offer the typical SannaCroozy
response "Oh wow, man, like, grant that I should not criticize
my neighbor." Well, fuck that. He behaved like a complete moron.
>>And as for you, don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls
>>out again.
>
>Better an open mind than a closed one like yours.
Sigh.
Peeve: that the world has reached a state where simple competent
reactions and sensible courses of action are viewed as
having a closed mind. Maybe he should have just stuffed a
crystal up her snatch and made some herb tea, eh? Don't be
so closed to alternative medicine, man....
JZ
Deirdre Sholto-Douglas
JZ's attribute got lost somewhere.
In alt.peeves JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: >Then perhaps - maybe, just maybe - he shouldn't have posted an entire
: >confession of his complete addle-mindedness to
: >alt.dot.motherfucking.PEEVES, eh?
: Oh. I didn't know that one couldn't post a peeve about hospitals and
: idiots who put lug wrenches on too tight, etc., without being subject
Now you do. Go away.
Oh, and just in case you ever decide to learn to read for *content*,
the attacks have nothing to do with a peeve about hospitals etc.
ad naseaum. Glen may have *intended* to peeve about these things,
but he's being flamed because he didn't adequately respond to the
needs of someone unable to respond for themself. And, he stirred
the collective ire of the group by being so bloody ungracious when
help *was* provided.
It is possible to peeve about hospitals. It is possible to peeve
about almost dying without stirring this sort of reaction. I've
done both. Glen did neither. He was more concerned about how
her inconsideration in bleeding out inconvenienced him. It wasn't
particularly humourous and it wasn't really a peeve...and if he
was looking for commiseration, well, by now he knows he was looking
in the wrong spot.
Oddly enough, peevers, curmudgeons though they be, put their
loved ones' lives above motor vehicles. Strange people, I know.
: (ever hear of religious nuts that refuse to allow blood
: transfussions?)
Yeah, Miss Open-Mind. Ever consider that calling them 'nuts' isn't
terribly open-minded? Or does that statement only apply to others?
Deirdre
--
| Deirdre Sholto-Douglas | e-mail: fi...@Mercury.mcs.com |
| | |
******* The only acceptable substitute for intelligence *******
is silence.
JCDill
ob...@best.com (Bob O Brien) mentions:
>JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>Sounds like his beloved wanted to see the doctor or the hospital even
>>less, and that he had to convince her to even make a phone call, where
>>she made an appointment for THE NEXT DAY!!!
>
>Ask not for whom the clue phone rings...
Obviously not you. Get a clue yourself, you haven't the foggiest idea
what their lifestyle is like, how DARE you judge his actions?
>
>So you advocate letting delirious people
>make all their own health-care decisions?
I advocate allowing those with lifestyles different from mine to make
their own decisions about how they want to live. I advocate letting
those that are in long term committed partnerships to act on behalf of
each other in the manner that is consistent with their beliefs,
values, lifestyle.
If they want to live more than 30 minutes from the firehouse, thus
more or less ensuring that their house would burn to the ground before
a fire truck arrives, that is their right. If they want to avoid
annual physical exams, that is their right. If they want to stay at
home and get deathly ill rather than go see the doctor or hospital
sooner, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT.
These two people live together and love each other, and have a
lifestyle and value system that they both believe in. You are in no
position to judge if he did right by her, you don't agree with their
lifestyle! Sheesh, what is so hard to understand???
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <tcmay-ya02318000...@news.znet.net>, tc...@got.net (Tim May) writes:
>
> I read Glenn Appleby's "peeve" and concluded it was all just a troll.
I appreciate your kind thoughts, but no -- no troll. Though the posted
flames *have* been heart-warming.
> The long, repeated points about how he did various things to keep his VW
> bus from getting blood on it, the way he let the love of his life (?) bleed
> out in the passenger seat
Nope -- she was most comfortable laying on the back floor.
> while he searched for a tire iron, then searched
> for a phone to call a tow truck (not an ambulance, a _tow truck_)...well,
> it all screamed "troll."
Gee -- I *try* not to scream. It's so .... unbecoming.
> If it wasn't a troll, then let's just pray that the love of his life is
> past childbearing stage.
Funny that you would mention that. Both in the ambulance and in the ER,
almost everybody was asking her "Are you *sure* that you are not
pregnant?". Let's see -- she had her tubes tied 20+ years before,
she had been on birth control pills for 2 years AND (recognizing that
neither of these is absolute) she just had a period!
I think that if having more children was anywhere in her thoughts, she
would have had regular pelvic exams and had gone to the doctor long
before it got this bad.
Thanks for asking, though.
Tim May
In article <332f2350...@news.concentric.net>, jjjj...@ix.netcom.com
(JCDill) wrote:
> Obviously not you. Get a clue yourself, you haven't the foggiest idea
> what their lifestyle is like, how DARE you judge his actions?
> >
> >So you advocate letting delirious people
> >make all their own health-care decisions?
>
> I advocate allowing those with lifestyles different from mine to make
> their own decisions about how they want to live. I advocate letting
> those that are in long term committed partnerships to act on behalf of
> each other in the manner that is consistent with their beliefs,
> values, lifestyle.
Let's make something clear. I support Glenn Appleby's decision to live in
the mountains, his decision to keep his old VW bus in barely running
condition, and his right to let his supposed loved one bleed out in the
back of his van while he first searched for a lug wrench, then harangued
those who tried to help, and so on.
I think of it as "evolution in action." Generations of Mountain Folk in
Appalachia have lived--and died--in exactly the same way.
So, Glenn has my blessing to screw up royally.
Most of us have commented, I think, because Glenn posted his tale of
stupidity in scruz.general, apparently thinking we would all express our
condolences and sympathies and join him in his crusade against the Highway
Patrol, the hospitals, and the various businesses in or near Scotts Valley
who chose not to help him in his quixotic crusade for a lug wrench.
Maybe Glenn is exaggerating how close to death's door she was. From his
description of how pale and incoherent she was, and the amount of blood
she'd already lost, I can only conclude the guy's an idiot. And if his
girlfriend/SO doesn't realize this...well, maybe, like a lot of mountain
folk, too much inbreeding has occurred.
> If they want to live more than 30 minutes from the firehouse, thus
> more or less ensuring that their house would burn to the ground before
> a fire truck arrives, that is their right. If they want to avoid
> annual physical exams, that is their right. If they want to stay at
> home and get deathly ill rather than go see the doctor or hospital
> sooner, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT.
Of _course_ it's their "right" to live this way.
Just as it's my right to wish them well on their way to hell, to cheer that
the gene pool has one less--or maybe two less--denizens.
"Rights" don't enter the picture, not when Glenn posted his sad story to
our newsgroup. Did he expect we'd cheer him for his foolish actions?
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Obviously not you. Get a clue yourself, you haven't the foggiest idea
>what their lifestyle is like, how DARE you judge his actions?
It's not against the law to call a dolt a dolt, dolt.
How dare we? It's easy. I judge that his actions were stupid and
endangered his wife's life for no good reason. I judge that
Christian Scientists are idiots for not accepting medical care
when their children are dying. It's easy, and it feels good, too.
>I advocate allowing those with lifestyles different from mine to make
>their own decisions about how they want to live. I advocate letting
>those that are in long term committed partnerships to act on behalf of
>each other in the manner that is consistent with their beliefs,
>values, lifestyle.
Ooh, wow, groovy. I advocate telling idiots that they're stupid.
It empowers me. They can live however they want. I'll call them
stupid assholes when it suits me to do so. If you don't like it,
I'm sure your newsreader has ample opportunities for you to
exit this thread, this group, and usenet in general.
>If they want to live more than 30 minutes from the firehouse, thus
>more or less ensuring that their house would burn to the ground before
>a fire truck arrives, that is their right. If they want to avoid
>annual physical exams, that is their right. If they want to stay at
>home and get deathly ill rather than go see the doctor or hospital
>sooner, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT.
Good. Then they should shut up about it and get on with it. We'll
look for the death notices in the paper when their bodies are
found - hers bled white in the back of the van, and his crushed
by the van when it fell off the jack.
>These two people live together and love each other, and have a
>lifestyle and value system that they both believe in. You are in no
>position to judge if he did right by her, you don't agree with their
>lifestyle! Sheesh, what is so hard to understand???
What is so hard to understand for you? If you lay out your
actions and beliefs for public scrutiny, you can't expect an
outpouring of support for your differently-clued actions
from everyone. You've been in SannaCrooz too long JC, and
are incapable of making a critical judgement. Except of
course, to defend the indefensible.
Peeve: People who rush to defend the stupid.
JZ
Geoff Miller
jjjj...@ix.netcom.com (JCDill) writes:
> Get a clue yourself, you haven't the foggiest idea what their
> lifestyle is like, how DARE you judge his actions?
[...]
> If they want to live more than 30 minutes from the firehouse, thus
> more or less ensuring that their house would burn to the ground before
> a fire truck arrives, that is their right. If they want to avoid
> annual physical exams, that is their right. If they want to stay at
> home and get deathly ill rather than go see the doctor or hospital
> sooner, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT.
Rights aren't what's at issue here, you shrill nitwit. People have the
right to do a _lot_ of things that aren't necessarily a good idea. So
frigging what? Contrary to what you apparently believe, their having
the right to do those things doesn't exempt them from the scrutiny and
criticism of others.
How DARE you subject others to your ill-considered maunderings?
Geoff
--
"Democrats are so stupid that if one of 'em fell into a barrel
full of titties, he'd come out sucking his thumb." -- Will Durst
John S. Novak, III
>If Glens beloved doesn't like how he dealt with getting her to a
>doctor, then she can flame him. You and I have no stake in this
>matter, so leave your opinion of how he treated her OUT OF IT! You
>haven't walked a mile in his shoes.
Oh, give it a fucking rest.
When somone posts in peeves, he can fucking well expect to be mauled
if people think he's guilty of total stupidity. Which in this case,
Glen is.
"My wife is quite possibly bleeding to death in the back of my
vehicle. But call me a tow truck, so I can wait half an hour for it
to get here and another fifteen minutes while I change the tire, so I
can spend another twenty minutes on the road, instead of calling us an
ambulance which could be here in five minutes and begin administering
immediate care, and get her back to the hospital in another five."
>You don't know her like Glen knows her, and he did what
>he thought was best.
How nice.
The point remains, Glen is either trolling, or a moron. If he's
trolling, it should not be an ego point that he's managed to convince
the vocal majority that he _is_ capable of that sort of dimwittedness.
This namby-pamby "Well _he_ thought he was right, so that makes it all
Oh! Kay!" is horseshit, and is treated as such.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@cris.com
The Humblest Man on the Net
j.r. pierce [see .sig]
J...@cris.com (John S. Novak, III) wrote:
>In <332f0946...@news.concentric.net> jjjj...@ix.netcom.com (JCDill) writes:
>
>>If Glens beloved doesn't like how he dealt with getting her to a
>>doctor, then she can flame him. You and I have no stake in this
>>matter, so leave your opinion of how he treated her OUT OF IT! You
>>haven't walked a mile in his shoes.
>
>Oh, give it a fucking rest.
>
>When somone posts in peeves, he can fucking well expect to be mauled
>if people think he's guilty of total stupidity. Which in this case,
>Glen is.
Actually, it appears one dan...@cdsnet.net (Steve Daniels (Official
JBT of a.p)) cross posted the very first response to Glen's missive
into alt.peeves. I'm UNcrossing this response.
Hey, I just figured out the perfect noise-filter for scruz.general!
anything cross-posted to alt.peeves can go into the bit bucket.
-jrp
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This posting has a invalid email address to discourage bulk emailers
if you need to mail me try "pierce at hogranch dot com"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
J.R. Dean
In article <332f48b2...@news.scruznet.com>, anti...@here.not (j.r. pierce [see .sig]) wrote:
>Actually, it appears one dan...@cdsnet.net (Steve Daniels (Official
>JBT of a.p)) cross posted the very first response to Glen's missive
>into alt.peeves. I'm UNcrossing this response.
>
Re: crossposting to or from alt.peeves... Now doesn't *that*
sound famliar?
You'd think they'd tire of being so pedestrian and *predictable*.
>
>Hey, I just figured out the perfect noise-filter for scruz.general!
>anything cross-posted to alt.peeves can go into the bit bucket.
>
I suggested this to Jeff Liebermann some months back, and he
was decidedly against the notion. Maybe he's ready to
reconsider...?
-- D.
-------------
j...@enclave.org -- URL = <http://www.enclave.org/jrd/>
"The Enclave" -- Boulder Creek, California -- +1 408 336-0610
=+! Public Access Usenet BBS for Writers & Other Fiends !+=
Steve Premo
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:30:21 GMT, jjjj...@ix.netcom.com (JCDill)
wrote:
>I advocate allowing those with lifestyles different from mine to make
>their own decisions about how they want to live. I advocate letting
>those that are in long term committed partnerships to act on behalf of
>each other in the manner that is consistent with their beliefs,
>values, lifestyle.
So do I. I know someone who's decided that, since his kids are grown
up and he's retired, he's basically expendible. Oh, he likes living
and has a good time with his life, but he will not drain society's
resources to keep himself alive, and will not subject himself to
becoming incapacitated in a hospital, where his right to make his own
decisions may be overruled by the staff as soon as he becomes
incoherent.
So he will not be cut. No surgery which requires a general
anesthetic, because once he's under, he's no longer in charge. He'd
rather die.
I may be called upon to make decisions about his health care. I'll
respect his wishes. It's his considered choice.
But he's pretty unusual. Glen has not said that Kathy is operating
under similar principles. I don't think it has been unwarranted for
people to assume that she would rather be subjected to the loss of
dignity inherent in an ambulance ride than to die from blood loss by
the side of the road.
Personally I think Glen did OK up to the point where he got to
Pasatiemo and called for a tow truck rather than an ambulance, and
then failed to dial 911 for an ambulance when no tow truck was
available. Unless, of course, that was due to some matter of
principle that he and Kathy share, and that he has not yet expressed.
Steve Premo
Santa Cruz, CA
http://www2.cruzio.com/~premo/steve.html
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <332f48b2...@news.scruznet.com>, anti...@here.not (j.r. pierce [see .sig]) writes:
>
> Actually, it appears one dan...@cdsnet.net (Steve Daniels (Official
> JBT of a.p)) cross posted the very first response to Glen's missive
> into alt.peeves. I'm UNcrossing this response.
I owe a *big* appology for this getting outta hand in scruz.general. I
only posted the story, here, for entertainment and information. I didn't
cross-post, because I was concerned about this happening. I posted it
separately to both ngs, giveng both slightly different titles and changing
the text, slightly in both.
Now, I don't know if Daniels woulda cross-posted, anyway. We know
that there is a small part of the peevers that have less than optimum
intellect. Maybe I shoulda taken that as a clue and not posted this
there, at all. I was *expecting* flames from this post, but I expected,
from a.p, some *witty* flames from the peevers.
I also don't mind the scruz folks jumping on the ream-wagon. I recognize
how easy it is to get caught up in the moment and, besides, getting
reamed by locals is OK for me. They are locals. Sometimes they can
be fools, but they are *my* fools. Aw, heck -- I just can't hold a grudge
no matter what.
I do appologize, though, for the flames getting over to this group, from
the peevers. I know that there are some people in this group that really
don't like them posting that stuff here; and it is to them, specificcally that
I want to appologize to.
And to those of you that have said some of the kinder thing -- thanks.
I do appreciate the words. Please don't feel a need to support me, though.
It can just keep the peevers going, here.
Glen (Nomex is *so* comfortable) Appleby
Claudia HCQ Sorsby
JCDill <jjjj...@ix.netcom.com> tries to defend the Clueless Couple by
bleating:
> Obviously not you. Get a clue yourself, you haven't the foggiest idea
> what their lifestyle is like, how DARE you judge his actions?
Easily. He posted his story, so he obviously wants reactions. A common
reaction is judging. Besides, who are you to say that we can't judge
him?
> If they want to live more than 30 minutes from the firehouse, thus
> more or less ensuring that their house would burn to the ground before
> a fire truck arrives, that is their right. If they want to avoid
> annual physical exams, that is their right. If they want to stay at
> home and get deathly ill rather than go see the doctor or hospital
> sooner, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT.
Horse hockey. Their "rights" end at the point where their actions affect
the lives of others. Glen admitted in his original post that he was
driving maniacally, breaking every possible traffic law, in his attempt
to get his wife to the doctor. By driving this way, he was endangering
the life of every other motorist or pedestrian he encountered. What
gives him the "right" to do that?
Especially since, as Steve Daniels has pointed out, ambulance drivers
are trained to drive safely in such emergencies, and they have all those
cool flashing lights and sirens and stuff -- unlike your righteous hero,
Glen. If his house is inaccessible, he could have arranged to meet them
somewhere. The point is that he had alternatives, better ones, but he
was too dumb to use them.
To put it in terms your tiny brain may be able to understand, this boils
down to the simple fact that by exercising their "right" to be
galactically stupid, Glen and his wife risked other people's lives
unnecessarily. They have no right to do that. Moreover, I have every
right in the world to say so. Get it?
> These two people live together and love each other, and have a
> lifestyle and value system that they both believe in. You are in no
> position to judge if he did right by her, you don't agree with their
> lifestyle! Sheesh, what is so hard to understand???
I don't give a flying fuck about their "lifestyle" (blech). What I hate
is the idea of a moron endangering others by driving crazily on mountain
roads to get help for his now-critically-ill wife, all because the two
people involved are too bloody (heh) stupid to know when -- or how -- to
seek appropriate medical help.
Claudia
[*] She doesn't like doctors? Poor baby. Guess what; no one does.
However, most people have the wit to go see them for routine
preventative maintenance, or at least when they're losing blood by the
pint. By waiting as long as they did, these two geniuses turned a bad
situation into a potential disaster.
Tim May
> I owe a *big* appology for this getting outta hand in scruz.general. I
> only posted the story, here, for entertainment and information. I didn't
> cross-post, because I was concerned about this happening. I posted it
> separately to both ngs, giveng both slightly different titles and changing
> the text, slightly in both.
I don't think you owe scruz.general an apology of any sort. This has been
one of the more interesting threads of late, and has offered many of
insights into the mind of someone who prioritizes things much differently
than most of us do.
This "Blood on 17" thread has certainly been a lot more interesting than
reading about battles between warring hill-folk.
> I also don't mind the scruz folks jumping on the ream-wagon. I recognize
> how easy it is to get caught up in the moment and, besides, getting
> reamed by locals is OK for me. They are locals. Sometimes they can
> be fools, but they are *my* fools. Aw, heck -- I just can't hold a grudge
> no matter what.
Nor do I. I only hope you were exaggerating the condition of Kathy. (Though
from your latest report that she was 6 pints low, I think your original
description of her bleeding out in your van is confirmed...which makes your
quixotic search for a lug wrench, then a tow truck, etc., all the more
irresponsible. Nothing personal, though it may be for Kathy.)
JCDill
pr...@mail.cruzio.com (Steve Premo) mentions:
>Personally I think Glen did OK up to the point where he got to
>Pasatiemo and called for a tow truck rather than an ambulance, and
>then failed to dial 911 for an ambulance when no tow truck was
>available. Unless, of course, that was due to some matter of
>principle that he and Kathy share, and that he has not yet expressed.
Steve, I agree with you completely on this. I guess I am keeping an
open mind, and assuming that there may in fact be some matter of
principle between Glen and Kathy on this issue. Just like you and
your friend who doesn't want to be operated on. I know enough people
who are like that, that I assume that *is* the case unless I know
otherwise.
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
Claudia HCQ Sorsby <ch...@macconnect.com> wrote:
>Glen admitted in his original post that he was
>driving maniacally, breaking every possible traffic law, in his attempt
>to get his wife to the doctor.
Hmmmmm...and then, confronted with his stupidity, he said that
his wife could have been treated later, and that there was no
emergency.....back and fill faster, Glen. Better yet, unsubscribe
and never let us hear your pathetic voice again.
JZ
Steve Daniels (Official JBT of a.p)
On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 02:01:59 GMT, anti...@here.not (j.r. pierce
[see .sig]) wrote:
>Actually, it appears one dan...@cdsnet.net (Steve Daniels (Official
>JBT of a.p)) cross posted the very first response to Glen's missive
>into alt.peeves.
Does it now? Here's a quote from Glen's first post. Read it and
weep.
>I posted this to this group as well as alt.peeves, but didn't cross-post.
See, what he did was make two posts. One here, and one to
peeves. Why he feels this is better than just putting two groups
into the line and mashing the button once is beyond me, but
considering the way he has deported himself throughout the rest
of this it's hardly surprising.
I decided to bring it together when I replied. And as far as
keeping your drivel out of peeves? Sounds like a fine idea to
me.
--
Only a moron would believe any of this crap.
mave...@lakeshoreconn.com in alt.food.mcdonalds