Better backlog grooming
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Scrummistress
Apr 27, 2012, 9:48:25 AM4/27/12
to Scrum Alliance - transforming the world of work.
Someone on here recently mentioned a 'Three Amigos' method for backlog
grooming. Can someone point me to more information on that? I am
assuming by the title what it might include. What are the thoughts
around excluding the other team members? Id this only done with a
stable codebase and a project that has already gone through some
amount of 'Discovery' with whole team? My teams to excellent and
detailed planning tasking and I am thinking that this method of
backlog grooming might alleviate some 'meeting fatigue'. Would love
to hear more.
Leslie
grooming. Can someone point me to more information on that? I am
assuming by the title what it might include. What are the thoughts
around excluding the other team members? Id this only done with a
stable codebase and a project that has already gone through some
amount of 'Discovery' with whole team? My teams to excellent and
detailed planning tasking and I am thinking that this method of
backlog grooming might alleviate some 'meeting fatigue'. Would love
to hear more.
Leslie
Kane Mar
Apr 27, 2012, 10:03:29 AM4/27/12
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The Three Amigos is an article by George Dinwiddie that you can find here: http://manage.techwell.com/articles/weekly/three-amigos
I personally like having the whole team take part in the grooming meetings, if only to avoid misunderstandings. There are a number of techniques to help, if your team is suffering from fatigue. Some of the approaches that I've used in the past include bringing food, going out for coffee (and estimating), affinity estimating, and time boxing the conversations to 5 minutes.
John Miller
Apr 27, 2012, 11:34:45 AM4/27/12
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If you have to backlog groom, I do think it is beneficial to have the whole team involved as well.
But, do what works best for you in your circumstances.
Thank You,
Thank You,
John
Sent from my iPhone. It likes to sabotage my grammar.
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Roman Pichler
Apr 27, 2012, 11:48:24 AM4/27/12
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There seem's to be a fourth amigo missing: the user or customer
whose feedback drives the grooming process.
You can find my backlog grooming tips here:
http://www.romanpichler.com/blog/product-backlog/grooming-the-product-backlog/
Roman
whose feedback drives the grooming process.
You can find my backlog grooming tips here:
http://www.romanpichler.com/blog/product-backlog/grooming-the-product-backlog/
Roman
Yves Hanoulle
Apr 27, 2012, 11:53:17 AM4/27/12
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Scrambled by my Yphone
If you have to backlog groom, I do think it is beneficial to have the whole team involved as well.
A lot depends how big is your backlog. Grooming a large backlog fully with all details, does not make sense to me...
George Dinwiddie
Apr 27, 2012, 2:17:15 PM4/27/12
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Leslie,
On 4/27/12 9:48 AM, Scrummistress wrote:
> Someone on here recently mentioned a 'Three Amigos' method for backlog
> grooming. Can someone point me to more information on that?
As Kane Mar points out, it's at
http://manage.techwell.com/articles/weekly/three-amigos
> I am assuming by the title what it might include.
Be careful with that, as the name is not as descriptive as you might
think. I've got lots more to say about it than I've currently published,
but have been lacking the time to get it into writing.
> What are the thoughts
> around excluding the other team members?
Developing the essential examples to illustrate the acceptance criteria
can take a lot longer if done with a larger group than with a smaller
one. These examples then help the larger group understand what is meant,
with fewer cycles of "Does this include that?"
> Id this only done with a
> stable codebase and a project that has already gone through some
> amount of 'Discovery' with whole team?
I'm not sure what you mean by "Discovery." Certainly everyone needs to
have a picture of what you're trying to accomplish. I suggest chartering
for that.
> My teams to excellent and
> detailed planning tasking and I am thinking that this method of
> backlog grooming might alleviate some 'meeting fatigue'. Would love
> to hear more.
Yes, meeting fatigue was one of the motivating factors in the concept.
Also the need to have differing points of view represented, and the fact
that examples communicate better than abstract concepts in a lot of ways
for most people.
- George
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On 4/27/12 9:48 AM, Scrummistress wrote:
> Someone on here recently mentioned a 'Three Amigos' method for backlog
> grooming. Can someone point me to more information on that?
http://manage.techwell.com/articles/weekly/three-amigos
> I am assuming by the title what it might include.
think. I've got lots more to say about it than I've currently published,
but have been lacking the time to get it into writing.
> What are the thoughts
> around excluding the other team members?
can take a lot longer if done with a larger group than with a smaller
one. These examples then help the larger group understand what is meant,
with fewer cycles of "Does this include that?"
> Id this only done with a
> stable codebase and a project that has already gone through some
> amount of 'Discovery' with whole team?
have a picture of what you're trying to accomplish. I suggest chartering
for that.
> My teams to excellent and
> detailed planning tasking and I am thinking that this method of
> backlog grooming might alleviate some 'meeting fatigue'. Would love
> to hear more.
Also the need to have differing points of view represented, and the fact
that examples communicate better than abstract concepts in a lot of ways
for most people.
- George
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
George Dinwiddie
Apr 27, 2012, 2:24:21 PM4/27/12
to scruma...@googlegroups.com
Roman,
On 4/27/12 11:48 AM, Roman Pichler wrote:
> There seem's to be a fourth amigo missing: the user or customer
> whose feedback drives the grooming process.
As the article mentions, there is no limitation to three. Three seems to
be the minimum number of viewpoints required. That's
* the business mindset - What are the goals?
* the programmer mindset - What is necessary for implementation?
* the tester mindset - What could go wrong?
In the article, I use a business analyst to represent the business view,
as that's a common practice and things typically have more difficulty
with that practice than with using actual business people. There are
lots of other constituencies, though. The end-user is, of course, one
important viewpoint. So is the UX expert, the security auditor, the
customer service rep, the operations personnel, the accountant, ....
On 4/27/12 11:48 AM, Roman Pichler wrote:
> There seem's to be a fourth amigo missing: the user or customer
> whose feedback drives the grooming process.
be the minimum number of viewpoints required. That's
* the business mindset - What are the goals?
* the programmer mindset - What is necessary for implementation?
* the tester mindset - What could go wrong?
In the article, I use a business analyst to represent the business view,
as that's a common practice and things typically have more difficulty
with that practice than with using actual business people. There are
lots of other constituencies, though. The end-user is, of course, one
important viewpoint. So is the UX expert, the security auditor, the
customer service rep, the operations personnel, the accountant, ....
Roman Pichler
Apr 30, 2012, 3:42:48 AM4/30/12
to Scrum Alliance - transforming the world of work.
Hi George,
If the product owner is not the customer, then I view it as critical
to get frequent
feedback from the actual users to allow the product owner and the
development
team to validate if they are building the right product for the right
people. That's
particularly important when a new product is created. If the product
is not
desirable or helpful for the users, nobody will want to purchase and
use it:
http://www.romanpichler.com/blog/agile-product-innovation/focus-on-the-user-not-the-product/
The insights gained from analysing the feedback help the product owner
and
team make the right changes to the product backlog.
Roman
If the product owner is not the customer, then I view it as critical
to get frequent
feedback from the actual users to allow the product owner and the
development
team to validate if they are building the right product for the right
people. That's
particularly important when a new product is created. If the product
is not
desirable or helpful for the users, nobody will want to purchase and
use it:
http://www.romanpichler.com/blog/agile-product-innovation/focus-on-the-user-not-the-product/
The insights gained from analysing the feedback help the product owner
and
team make the right changes to the product backlog.
Roman
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