Re: CH: Considerations about Social Contracts, Freedom and Human Potential
Hal Cox
Thanks Joshua,
Here is a quote from Jordan in that video about changing peoples’ minds: “when you use compulsion in the service of an apocalyptic ideal and undermine that trust then you generate all sorts of well an endless amount of conspiratorial thinking and that's a catastrophe”.
The apocalyptic ideal is apparently a PHYSICAL problem that initiated the farming/farmer crisis in the Netherlands, that is nitrogen and the related critical possible end points derived from tipping point effects as highlighted by Paul, Kirschvink and Ward, and Hazen.
Psychologically, it is persuasion rather than compulsion needed to change peoples’ minds, I reckon.
The complexities of globalization make it difficult to persuade people about the realities of all of the constraints on the global system, so persuasion becomes difficult or impossible because of such complexities AND the loss of the premises of trust in a civil engineering society. That is, a society where the technocrats become constrained by the efforts of overcoming political conspiracies, conspiracies that may not be inherently or intrinsically about facts so much as about values.
The facts may be false, the values true, for example. Or vice versa, begging the question of how one values Truth and in what philosophical or mathematical framework, an unaddressed recursive problem in values theory as far as I know.
This subject is something to contend with in this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Liberalism_Failed
This book relates to something to challenge you and Paul about decision theory and values.
It is perhaps a challenge that we may want to levitate, somehow, out of the technologies of both, into a domain of higher spiritual consensus about shared values.
There is clearly a technology of decision theory, for example AGI.
And now, with the innovations (or the processes attempted to generate innovations) identified by people like Tim Holborn and Dave Raggett (*), is it fair to say we have a technology of values?
Values implicit in the meta regulation of relationships?
Those relationships are the internetworking (a synonym for nonlocal) ontology management technologies for building, enriching, changing, depleting, and destroying values and their ontologies in some Vedic cycle of future existence?
Hal
(*) introduced by Tim with this slide deck:
https://www.w3.org/2022/09/ATA-Raggett-2022-09-12.pdf
PS I am aware that values are only a privileged category of constraints in classical decision theory.
Tell me otherwise, please, since I am also aware that I am about 30 years behind the times in understanding the POV of you and Paul assume about decision theory (e.g. I just learned Paul’s 1990 book which early on introduced artificial neural network critic networks, a prelude to more recent adversarial networks).
There seems a real gap in the learning circle content, so far, to address the spiritual context of these technological challenges for decision theory and ontology ‘management’, perhaps diagnostically approachable in the context of the conflict and disinformation cycles highlighted by JohnJK in his presentation at the Bangalore meeting.
Perhaps entailing a rich 2D graphical view for sharing concepts.
It would be nice for us all.
It would be nice if we could share linguistically with graphics and graphical representations from a more fluid and fluent discourse, perhaps using an app or whatever we use or don’t use today.
We are all trained to speak specialist languages anyway, like TEX for writing formulae, or Mathlab or Wolfram for making simulations.
What languages are best for generic graphics?
A graph network language may be an example of something more useful for the ‘speaking’ and efficient sharing of concepts or models.
This is a technical question to those who may know in society: is there an easy language (and app and tactile or other interface) for people to use? (considering the leading generators of graphical insights in our midst).
Presumably there is a GPT-3 type assistant on the horizon. Entailing some controlled vocabulary - what it takes, anyway, to learn a new language, the naming of names or the representing of network icons, like pages from the Zohar in a graphical dictionary.
Another interesting conversation with Jordan Peterson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lI0IWcBShE--On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:36:35 PM UTC+12 Yeshua Ben David wrote:Jordan Peterson on the relationship between Being and Consciousness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9lE7Qm06IY
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Chris King
Paul Werbos
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