RE: [External] [SBoC-F] Re: A Chess Move Approach to ‘Choices’ in a Mental Cosmos

[Vasavada, Kashyap V]

Cathy and Kushal,
As I have been saying often, conclusions of theorems depend on premises (axioms). Interpretation is another game. You know there are quite a few people on these forums who believe in Einstein's realism. You believe in super determinism in spite of expts . with quasars some Billion light years away! So people's belief system is unfathomable!!
Best
kashyap


-----Original Message-----
From: biological-phys...@googlegroups.com <biological-phys...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Cathy Reason
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2023 11:29 AM
To: Biological-Phys...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [External] [SBoC-F] Re: A Chess Move Approach to ‘Choices’ in a Mental Cosmos

From: Vasavada, Kashyap V
To: sboc-...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Biological Physics and Meaning


<<Bell’s theorem is great. But remember it took almost 50 years of experiments to convince people of entanglement. So just mathematics by itself is never enough for physics/science!>>


But it's important to remember that those experimental tests were not tests of Bell's theorem. They were tests of quantum mechanics, using predictions calculated from Bell's theorem. Theorems themselves are not empirically falsifable.


Cathy

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[Vasavada, Kashyap V]

Cathy, additional
For the hundredth time, we have to regard tables and chairs as real because they are part of our life and otherwise , we have to call ourselves non real! Do you think you are not real ?!!! Do you think a rock in your way is not real? Just hit it and you will end up in a real hospital!
Best
kashyap

-----Original Message-----
From: biological-phys...@googlegroups.com <biological-phys...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Vasavada, Kashyap V
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2023 6:05 PM
To: Biological-Phys...@googlegroups.com
Cc: sboc-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [External] [SBoC-F] Re: A Chess Move Approach to ‘Choices’ in a Mental Cosmos

Cathy,
Wrong again! You have to read QM (QFT)!! Only things important are mathematical theory and experimental results. All interpretations are useless. They are like fictional stories! They have to agree with experiments otherwise they are trashed immediately. This is one of the reasons why MSP thinks very little of Bohm-Hiley interpretation because they make the beautiful linear QM nonlinear.
Est

kashyap

-----Original Message-----
From: biological-phys...@googlegroups.com <biological-phys...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Cathy Reason
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2023 5:44 PM
To: Biological-Phys...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [External] [SBoC-F] Re: A Chess Move Approach to ‘Choices’ in a Mental Cosmos

From: "Vasavada, Kashyap V"
To: <sboc-...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Biological Physics and Meaning"

<Biological-Phys...@googlegroups.com>


<<No, no, no!!! There is a difference between classical and quantum objects. Tables and chairs have some definite properties whether you measure or not. This can be verified by thousands of people with the same tables and chairs. Quantum objects are different. They can be superposed, entangled etc.>>


Kashyap, you are wrong about this. You know that all interpretations of QM make the same empirical predictions. But some of those interpretations postulate that macroscopic objects have real properties before measurement, and some do not. So it follows trivially that there is no empirical method for determining whether macroscopic objects have real properties before measurement.

Cathy

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[John Jay Kineman]

Kashyap, you have a point but I think you are not making it properly, leaving it open to a technical critique. What you mean by “real” and properties existing before measurement in classical objects is based on the observation that sequential measurements of states follow the predictions of a classical mechanism. That is, we get consistent measurements that suggest a stable system that changes according to classical laws between measurements. That is quite different from what we get between measurements with a quantum system. So your point is good, but so is Cathy’s because we have no evidence of what is happening between measurements except that in one case it is classical law-like and in the other it is quantum law-like. There can be (at least) two reasons for the classical result - two interpretation, and yours is an interpretation. One is that there is a continuous change between measurements due to the properties of the object (the view you presented); another is that there is the appearance of a continuous change between measurements because of contextual constraints, for example the high number of natural interactions forcing or maintaining decoherence (to a sufficient degree) between our interactions for measurement. For clarification, see my dialogue with ChatGPT posted earlier.

Cheers,
John

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