Re: Questions about a null hypothesis of field based brain function

[Paul Werbos]

Shiva asked about field effects in brain function. It is easier for me to parse his comments, to translate them into something meaningful, than some of the other comments which seem to assume equivalence between different levels of analysis which Walter would call category errors.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 11:30 AM Shiva Meucci <bme...@gmail.com> wrote:

There are various sets of evidence held up as indications of long range synchronization of neuron firing patterns and one of the simple mechanics is local constructive interference of EM waves. While Freeman and others have indicated that some other mechanic such as entanglement or vector potential of Bohm Aharonov may be at work, an investigation of a purely EM picture occurred to me.

I have seen no evidence in these discussions of any improvement in the understanding of the brain level of consciousness which cannot be fully grounded in quantum electrodynamics (QED).

QED certainly allows for entanglement, but does anyone here advocate entanglement between neurons as part of how mammal brains work? Back when I formulated and ran the NSF COPN effort, the likelihood of that seemed very very small, even to those of us who believe in what I call PSI, as a shorthand. Entanglement WITHIN neurons probably us important,  in my view, but not between them, except as an epiphenomen  of PSI due to physics beyond QED.

Has anyone taken the various evidences for brainwave synchronization and applied them to the substantia nigra? Neuromelanin has interesting shielding effects and there is significant indication that the reduction of neuromelanin may be causal in Parkinson's. (Suggesting that loss of shielding leads to unwanted coupling and accidental synchrony.)

Anyone who uses scholar.google.com should easily find Werbos and Davis, an important review of brainwave data.

But the most solid relevant data (now and in our best next grneeastion opportunities) comes from MEAs, going to cerebral cortex and hippocampus. Has anyone collected data that good for substantial nigra or basal ganglia in general? 

To answer that, I would go to crcns.org and to Allen database bookmarks I have in my main home computer, which I canmmot access right now. I suspect not. Also I do not expect such correlations.

The only really "uncanny" cross neuron correlations I know of are effects which MAY have a PSI aspect, extending the work on synchronization by Kelso, Bressler, Tuller and others, which we have discussed here before. There are huge unmet opportunities for research on those connections, which I wish I knew how to support better,

SUBJECT to my duty to put more effort into other even more important areas where new research is needed.

If synchrony is due to EM mediated ephaptic coupling, then a healthy substantia nigra should not exhibit the synchronizations found elsewhere.

We do need to build higher in studying the general type of synchronizations kelso discussed, but first we need to build a solid first floor of that new edifice. There are SO many areas where humans billshit about flying in the air, while refusing to learn how to crawl out  of the box they are stuck in.

Has anyone in the Pribram / Freeman camp investigated this? I think we'll find simpler computer-like neural network functions dominate this motor area.

Showing this difference could go a long way in advancing the consideration and research of field effects in the wider community.

Regards,

 - Shiva

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[Hal Cox]

Chasing down a query from Jo, by chance I just ran across a self published book by Roman Ormandy, dedicated to Walter Freeman, linked below.

I met Roman at a meeting chatting with Walter. Roman was a professed friend of Walter, and often met with him, consulting to generate ideas for new innovations, I reckon.

What most impressed me was his celebration of Carver Mead’s work on collective electrodynamics which I believe he interprets in this text.

  What most concerned me was his interest to exploit Walter’s ideas for AI.

Hal

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roman-Ormandy/publication/337548019_Dynamics_of_Life_From_Electrons_to_Neurons_Humans_Nations_and_Bitcoins/links/5ddd74c7a6fdcc2837ed7c22/Dynamics-of-Life-From-Electrons-to-Neurons-Humans-Nations-and-Bitcoins.pdf

This book is dedicated to the study of fields, from electron fields to financial markets, but it is grounded in e-fields comprising and produced by the human brain. Why did I choose to focus on fields? As an AI researcher studying neural science, I realized over time that the human brain is very different from computer CPU's or AI neural networks. Unlike computers, which are built 

from static circuits sending symbolic messages to each other, populations of 100B+ neurons of human neocortex resonate like Stradivari violins on multiple frequencies. This resonance is due to coupling via non-synaptic, ion channel based high speed ephapsis, leaving woefully slow axonal action potential spikes in the dust. 

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[Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal]

Hi all,

What is the a null hypothesis of field based brain function and how can it be tested?

Cheers!

Kind regards,

Rām

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Rām Lakhan Pāndey Vimal, Ph.D.

Amarāvati-Hīrāmaṇi Professor (Research) and President

Vision Research Institute Inc, Physics, Neuroscience, & Consciousness Research Dept.

25 Rita Street, Lowell, MA 01854 USA

Ph: +1 978 954 7522; eFAX: +1 440 388 7907

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Researched at the University of Chicago and Harvard Medical Schools

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