Caverns on the Moon?
GILES JR G E
>John Childers asks:
>Is there any evidence for natural caverns on the Moon?
Is there the possiblity of large lava tubes forming? These
might be seen from earth. Could tubes formed by early lava
flow be covered by subsequent flows? This might bury the
tubes (without crushing them) deep enough for adequate
shielding and thermal control.
Might it be possible for large cavities to form in calderas
after magma receeds due to cooling?
Gary Giles g...@ornl.gov
Carl P Baker
the formation of lava tubes requires a certain (pretty high)
rate of cooling. I am pretty sure that radiation heat transfer
is inadequate to the task, and I don't know of any way that
convection or conduction could make that cooling happen.
Am I wrong? Is there any evidence of lunar caverns? It
would be nice if there were some.
Carl P Baker
cp_b...@pnl.gov
509-375-2724
Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed here are not necessarily
those of anyone in particular.
Henry Spencer
>>Is there any evidence for natural caverns on the Moon?
>
Yes. Hadley Rille, for example, is almost certainly a collapsed lava tube.
There is good reason to expect intact ones, possibly quite large.
>... Could tubes formed by early lava
>flow be covered by subsequent flows? This might bury the
>tubes (without crushing them) deep enough for adequate
>shielding and thermal control.
It doesn't take that much mass overhead to do this. A couple of meters
will do for shielding, last I heard. And thermal control is essentially
a non-issue; the lunar regolith is a superb insulator, and temperature
variations are trivial at half a meter and nonexistent at two. (An
underground colony may have to worry about cooling, in fact.)
>Might it be possible for large cavities to form in calderas
>after magma receeds due to cooling?
Conceivable. We don't know that much about the extremes of lunar geology.
--
There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| he...@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
IGOR
>Well, I am not a geologist (lunologist?), but I think that
>the formation of lava tubes requires a certain (pretty high)
>rate of cooling. I am pretty sure that radiation heat transfer
>is inadequate to the task, and I don't know of any way that
>convection or conduction could make that cooling happen.
it should not be too hard since there IS gravity on the moon (.17g)!!!!
>Am I wrong? Is there any evidence of lunar caverns? It
>would be nice if there were some.
Indeed
>
>
>Carl P Baker
>cp_b...@pnl.gov
>509-375-2724
>
>Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed here are not necessarily
>those of anyone in particular.
Igor
Texas A&M University
J.D. Frazer
>
> Well, I am not a geologist (lunologist?), but I think that the formation of
I think the term you're looking for is _selenologist_. The study of the Moon's
crust and structure is selenology.
While we're on the subject, does anyone have any numbers that show the
occurence of transuranic elements in the Lunar crust?
--
J.D. Frazer, a4...@mindlink.bc.ca, (Vancouver, B.C., Canada)
"I don't care HOW f@#$ing runny it is!"
seds%79...@fedex.msfc.nasa.gov
"Space 92." Its focus was on Lunar and Mars operations by people who do this
kind of thing on the earth like Civil Engineers. (What a novel concept, asking
people who do this kind of thing)
Mike Griffin spoke there as well as many other folks, including Buzz Aldrin
and a particularly interesting gentleman from SDIO at the Pentagon. His name
is Col. Simon P Worden. He took over Griffin's job at SDIO. He is the deputy for
technology development there. He spoke at lunch on monday about an SDIO project
called Clementine. This mission is a technology demonstration of the Brilliant
eyes sensor system. The mission is this. Launch from the earth to a lunar polar
orbit, map the moon with high resolution sensors and do other tests to check out
the instruments in a high radiation environment. Then the Eyes probe will
DEPART lunar orbit, to an earth flyby and go out and do a flyby of the asteroid
Geographos, which is a Near Earth Crossing Asteroid.
The reason for doing this mission according to SDIO folks is to test the
Eyes sensors in a radiation rich environment. He stated that they could almost
as much data on the performance of the eyes system, pertaining to its radiation
environment performance as they can with an underground nuclear blast. This
also is much cheaper than an underground nuke test.
Clementine is supposed to fly next year. How is that for a return to the moon!
Any Comments?
Also, it is my understanding that lava tubes here on the earth form when a
lava flow cools in a skin fashion. This skin then insulates the lava underneath
so that when the lava flow ceases, the lava does not harden under the skin but
flows on to wherever it is flowing. This leaves the interior of the lava flow
empty, therefore makeing a lava tube. We have pictures from lunar orbiter four
of many lava tubes that we have digitized. When we get an ethernet board we will
try to make thesea available to everyone. We happen to have every picture ever
taken by the Boeing/Nasa Lunar Orbiter mission from 1966-7 on microfilm.
Please respond to me at my address as my time is very limited due to COMET,
SPACEHAB, and CONSORT experiment deadlines. I just don't have time to do the
SSF thing right now.
Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville.
We must start SEI by 1994 or 1995 or it will not happen in this generation.
Quote by NASA associate administrator for Space Exploration, Mike Griffin at
a panel discussion during SPACE 92 in Denver Colorado this week.
Allen W. Sherzer
>>Is there the possiblity of large lava tubes forming? ...
>Yes. Hadley Rille, for example, is almost certainly a collapsed lava tube.
>There is good reason to expect intact ones, possibly quite large.
and even if the uncollapsed parts are not accessable it should be fairly
easy to put a roof over the collapsed parts. Judging by the Apollo photos
of the collapsed parts there is a LOT of room available this way.
Allen
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "Giving power and money to government is like giving |
| a...@iti.org | whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" |
+----------------------323 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
> In article <1992Jun3.1...@ornl.gov> g...@ornl.gov (GILES JR G E) writes:
>>>Is there any evidence for natural caverns on the Moon?
>>
>>Is there the possiblity of large lava tubes forming? ...
>
> Yes. Hadley Rille, for example, is almost certainly a collapsed lava tube.
> There is good reason to expect intact ones, possibly quite large.
A few points on the lava-tube discussion.
First, there is a paper on lunar lava tubes in *Lunar Bases and Space
Activities of the 21st Century*, edited by Wendell Mendell. Can't
recall the author, title, or page. Every serious student of lunar
bases *must* have this book, though-- and LPI has just knocked five
bucks off the price! It was a bargain at twenty bucks, but now it's
fifteen. Get yours today.
Lunar and Planetary Institute
3303 NASA Road One
Houston, TX 77058-4399
If you want to order books, call (713)486-2172.
Next, the people who have been most involved with lunar lava tubes
lately are the Oregon L5 Society. They have been "selling" lava tubes
as ideal sites for lunar bases-- radiation-shielded, flat-floored, and
thermally controlled. They've secured the use of an Oregon lava tube
and done a lot of work to employ it as a lunar base simulator. Bryce
Walden, Tom Billings, and Cheryl York are the folks I know in this
group. They've run simulations with students, and persuaded Rockwell
to test autonomous rover designs in their facility. You can contact
them at P.O. Box 86, Oregon City, OR 97045-0007, USA, or
76166...@compuserve.com. Their newsletter, *Starseed*, is $10/year.
They have done theoretical work, too. Tom Billings had a paper in
*Journal of the British Interplanetary Society* last year or 1990
about searching for lava tubes with Earth-based interferometry.
(Perhaps Peter Ford can comment.) As far as I know no lava tube has
been verified on the Moon, but as Henry Spencer suggested, the
evidence is somewhat encouraging. Tom has also studied techniques for
spotting lava tubes from orbiting spacecraft, but I don't know whether
he's published anything.
O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/
- ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
/ \ (_) (_) / | \
| | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
\ / Bitnet: HIG...@FNAL.BITNET
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~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS
O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/
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/ \ (_) (_) / | \
| | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
\ / Bitnet: HIG...@FNAL.BITNET
- - Internet: HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
> In article <12...@mindlink.bc.ca> a4...@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) writes:
>>While we're on the subject, does anyone have any numbers that show the
>>occurence of transuranic elements in the Lunar crust?
>
> you'll find much; the transuranics normally exist in nature only as the
> faintest traces in uranium ore.
Uh-oh. In my posting with the subject "Lunar transuranics," I assumed
that "transuranics" included "actinides." Henry seems to imply that
it doesn't. Who's right?
Moira Higgins on entertainment: Bill Higgins
"The effects on the new Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
*Star Trek* make the old one Internet: HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
look like a Sixties TV show!" Bitnet: HIG...@FNAL.BITNET
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
>> Carl P Baker writes:
>> Well, I am not a geologist (lunologist?), but I think that the formation of
>> lava tubes requires a certain (pretty high) rate of cooling. [...]
>
>I think the term you're looking for is _selenologist_. The study of the Moon's
>crust and structure is selenology.
So *you* say. The world is not such a well-ordered place. Most
people who study this would call themselves "planetary geologists,"
"planetary scientists," or just "geologists." Flame me if I'm wrong!
>While we're on the subject, does anyone have any numbers that show the
>occurence of transuranic elements in the Lunar crust?
Not *on* me. I can think of two sources for this: Apollo & Luna
sample analysis in the lab, and remote sensing with the Apollo 15 and
16 gamma-ray spectrometers. (Thorium and uranium gave off enough
gammas that the GRS could measure their distribution.) Check any
post-1975 reference such as *The Lunar Handbook* on these values.
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
> We have pictures from lunar orbiter four
> of many lava tubes that we have digitized. When we get an ethernet board we will
> try to make thesea available to everyone. We happen to have every picture ever
> taken by the Boeing/Nasa Lunar Orbiter mission from 1966-7 on microfilm.
This is kinda sad...
1. Cameras aboard Lunar Orbiter 4 take pictures of the Moon and the
film is developed automatically. (Analog)
2. The film is scanned, digitized, and images are transmitted to
Earth. (Digital)
3. Somebody makes a microfilm record of all the images. (Analog
again).
4. (Someday, it is to be hoped) Dennis scans the microfilm and
digitizes the images for our benefit, posting them to an archive
somewhere. (Digital again).
The poor data will be fairly abused by this point. There might even
have been a step 2.5 where digital processing was done to remove
camera distortion and other problems...
"They've never done three people before Bill Higgins
just grabbing it!" Fermilab
--Space expert Tom Nugent HIG...@FNALB.BITNET
on Champaign-Urbana television HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
SPAN: 43011::HIGGINS
Robert M. Unverzagt
> In article <BpAG3...@zoo.toronto.edu>, he...@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
> > In article <1992Jun3.1...@ornl.gov> g...@ornl.gov (GILES JR G E) writes:
> >>>Is there any evidence for natural caverns on the Moon?
> >>
> >>Is there the possiblity of large lava tubes forming? ...
> >
> > Yes. Hadley Rille, for example, is almost certainly a collapsed lava tube.
> > There is good reason to expect intact ones, possibly quite large.
>
> A few points on the lava-tube discussion.
>
>
> Next, the people who have been most involved with lunar lava tubes
> lately are the Oregon L5 Society. They have been "selling" lava tubes
> as ideal sites for lunar bases-- radiation-shielded, flat-floored, and
> thermally controlled. They've secured the use of an Oregon lava tube
> and done a lot of work to employ it as a lunar base simulator. Bryce
> Walden, Tom Billings, and Cheryl York are the folks I know in this
> group. They've run simulations with students, and persuaded Rockwell
> to test autonomous rover designs in their facility. You can contact
> them at P.O. Box 86, Oregon City, OR 97045-0007, USA, or
> 76166...@compuserve.com. Their newsletter, *Starseed*, is $10/year.
>
> They have done theoretical work, too. Tom Billings had a paper in
> *Journal of the British Interplanetary Society* last year or 1990
1991. Vol. 44, pp.255-256, "Radar Remote Sensing of Lunar
Lavatubes From Earth." Punchline: lavatubes larger than
26 meters can be detected under the lunar surface using
VLB interferometry working at 0.2-2.0 meters.
> about searching for lava tubes with Earth-based interferometry.
Shag
--
Rob Unverzagt |
sh...@aerospace.aero.org | It can happen.
The Aerospace Corporation |
Henry Spencer
>> Well, I am not a geologist (lunologist?), but I think that the formation of
>> lava tubes requires a certain (pretty high) rate of cooling. [...]
>
There is a strong tendency to use "geology" as the generic term for such
things, modified by suitable adjectives like "lunar".
>While we're on the subject, does anyone have any numbers that show the
>occurence of transuranic elements in the Lunar crust?
You might want to look in Lunar Sourcebook (my copy isn't handy). I doubt
you'll find much; the transuranics normally exist in nature only as the
faintest traces in uranium ore.
Dave Jones
>
>that "transuranics" included "actinides." Henry seems to imply that
>it doesn't. Who's right?
>
are two overlapping sets of elements. Thorium, Protactinium and Uranium
are Actinides but not Transuranics. Elements 104 and above are
Transuranic but not Actinides. Elements in between are both.
Practically speaking you'd be interested in the lower Actinides in lunar soil.
Transuranic elements would not be present without a constant bombardment
of neutrons to keep making them.
--
||Dave Jones (d...@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)))))))-UNIX-100Mb disk, 16Mb RAM,----|
||Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY )))))))-10 ft of shelf, 4 letters-----|
|| Pascal was developed for teaching. C was developed for development. ----|
|| So companies develop in Pascal, and schools teach C. --------------|
FRANK NEY
This is the assumption I'm working with in my SF novel.
--
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
New Number 703-803-0391 Effective 5/6 To log in for trial and account info.
Magnus Olsson
>In article <BpBw2...@zoo.toronto.edu>, he...@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>> You might want to look in Lunar Sourcebook (my copy isn't handy). I doubt
>> you'll find much; the transuranics normally exist in nature only as the
>> faintest traces in uranium ore.
>
>Uh-oh. In my posting with the subject "Lunar transuranics," I assumed
>that "transuranics" included "actinides." Henry seems to imply that
>it doesn't. Who's right?
"Transuranic" literally means "beyond uranium", so the transuranics
only include some of the actinides (93-103) - the ones that normally
aren't found in nature.
--
Magnus Olsson | \e+ /_
Dept. of Theoretical Physics | \ Z / q
University of Lund, Sweden | >----<
Internet: mag...@thep.lu.se | / \===== g
Bitnet: THEPMO@SELDC52 | /e- \q
Phil G. Fraering
I don't have the numbers, but the most common transuranic so far (we haven't
looked *that* much, remember) seems to be thorium...
--
Phil Fraering p...@srl0x.cacs.usl.edu where the x is a number from 1-5.
"These live alligators are scheduled to be returned to the wildlife
refuge at Marsh Island on April 15." - sign at exhibit at the Iberia
Parish Library. I wonder what they were needed for on the 15th...
Phil G. Fraering
>In article <3JUN1992...@judy.uh.edu>, seds%7977...@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
>> We have pictures from lunar orbiter four
>> of many lava tubes that we have digitized. When we get an ethernet board we will
>> try to make thesea available to everyone. We happen to have every picture ever
>> taken by the Boeing/Nasa Lunar Orbiter mission from 1966-7 on microfilm.
>This is kinda sad...
>1. Cameras aboard Lunar Orbiter 4 take pictures of the Moon and the
>film is developed automatically. (Analog)
>2. The film is scanned, digitized, and images are transmitted to
>Earth. (Digital)
>3. Somebody makes a microfilm record of all the images. (Analog
>again).
>4. (Someday, it is to be hoped) Dennis scans the microfilm and
>digitizes the images for our benefit, posting them to an archive
>somewhere. (Digital again).
>The poor data will be fairly abused by this point. There might even
>have been a step 2.5 where digital processing was done to remove
>camera distortion and other problems...
Hmmm...
I guess I shouldn't have written him about the possibility of using
the JPEG format, then....
>"They've never done three people before Bill Higgins
>just grabbing it!" Fermilab
> --Space expert Tom Nugent HIG...@FNALB.BITNET
> on Champaign-Urbana television HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
> SPAN: 43011::HIGGINS
Hmmm... I guess I'll have to get a paying job like that somewhere...
seds%79...@fedex.msfc.nasa.gov
>In article <3JUN1992...@judy.uh.edu>, seds%7977...@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
>> We have pictures from lunar orbiter four
>> of many lava tubes that we have digitized. When we get an ethernet board we will
>> try to make thesea available to everyone. We happen to have every picture ever
>> taken by the Boeing/Nasa Lunar Orbiter mission from 1966-7 on microfilm.
>
>This is kinda sad...
>
>1. Cameras aboard Lunar Orbiter 4 take pictures of the Moon and the
>film is developed automatically. (Analog)
>
>2. The film is scanned, digitized, and images are transmitted to
>Earth. (Digital)
>
>3. Somebody makes a microfilm record of all the images. (Analog
>again).
>
>4. (Someday, it is to be hoped) Dennis scans the microfilm and
>digitizes the images for our benefit, posting them to an archive
>somewhere. (Digital again).
>
>The poor data will be fairly abused by this point. There might even
>have been a step 2.5 where digital processing was done to remove
>camera distortion and other problems...
>
film at fairly low resolution, somewhere around 100 dpi. If I scann them in
at 600 dpi from the microfilm and use the image blow up feature of the scanner
I should be able to get 99.9% data quality. The only problem may be that the
film itself has deteoriated but it does not look that way. I am gonna try it
tonight and if it works I will try to get them posted ot hoshi.Colorado.edu
which is our seds ftp server.
We captured some images a few years ago with a camera and a frame grabber on
a Mac and the images looked awesome. Bill If you remember I was passing out
copies of the floppy that had the images at ISDC 89 in Chicago. Wee did some
image processing and identifed several distinct lava tubes from the last fifty
images taken by Lunar Orbiter IV. Lunar Orbiter IV and V had the best results
reconnisance wise. Actually there is some speculation that the Lunar Orbiters
were simply modified spy satellites.
Henry Spencer
>...Lunar Orbiter IV and V had the best results reconnisance wise.
No surprise; LOs I-III were essentially dedicated to Apollo-landing-site work.
IV and V were turned loose to do mapping and general science survey work.
>Actually there is some speculation that the Lunar Orbiters
>were simply modified spy satellites.
It's a matter of historical record, actually, that the camera system for the
Lunar Orbiters *was* a spy-satellite system, developed by the USAF. NASA was
allowed to use it on condition that only the sketchiest descriptions of the
hardware be released.
I believe the rest of the spacecraft was a NASA design, however. If nothing
else, spysats aren't designed to transmit from 400000km away.
25671-davey
>
> It's a matter of historical record, actually, that the camera system for the
> Lunar Orbiters *was* a spy-satellite system, developed by the USAF. NASA was
> allowed to use it on condition that only the sketchiest descriptions of the
> hardware be released.
>
> I believe the rest of the spacecraft was a NASA design, however. If nothing
> else, spysats aren't designed to transmit from 400000km away.
> --
> There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
> mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| he...@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
I can confirm that at least the thermal protection system was a NASA design.
One of the engineers who worked on it was my mentor when I was a CO-OP student
at Langley in the mid-70's.
Doug Davey dda...@iscp.bellcore.com Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ USA
Doug Reeder
Lunar Base Research Team has been looking at over the past few years
in relation to putting lunar bases in large lava tubes.
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--
Doug Reeder USENET: ...!tektronix!reed!reeder
Internet: ree...@reed.EDU BITNET: ree...@reed.BITNET
Div, Grad & Curl integrated scientific programming and derivative work
Doug Reeder
The members of Oregon L-5 are pleased that our work has gained such
wide notice on the net. Here is a short introduction to the Oregon
Moonbase.
I am Doug Reeder, President of the Oregon L-5 Society. The
introduction below was written by Tom Billings, Chair of the Lunar
Base Research Team.
OREGON MOONBASE
Preparation for Space Settlement
The Moon is still for the most part an unknown. All other places in
Space that we want to establish human habitation in are even more
unknown. Whatever we do know and actually can prepare for thus
becomes very important. It is most important of all in developing,
testing, and educating systems and human teams for settling Space.
This preparation is the purpose of Oregon Moonbase.
Oregon Moonbase is presently a field simulation site for testing lunar
and Mars exploration devices. For several years the Lunar Base
Research Team (LBRT) of the Oregon L-5 Society has worked towards
turning this site into a full Lunar Base Simulation Facility. Under
NASA contract NASW-4460 the LBRT laid out a phase one development plan
for starting a Simulation Facility. This spartan and cost- effective
facility would allow testing in surface and underground environments.
The underground environment is a major focus of the LBRT and Oregon
Moonbase. The very large lavatube caves believed to exist under the
lunar surface offer many advantages for lunar base construction and
operation. The lavatube cave complex at Oregon Moonbase allows
simulation of many aspects of the environment expected in lunar
lavatube caves.
The phase one facility would include two surface experimental sites
and six underground sites. They will be equipped with communications
and safety equipment, water, power, and light. There will also be
high-bandwidth teleoperations links to each site from control rooms
located next to the Facility administration building. This type of
facility will allow most major systems for a surface or lavatube lunar
base site to be tested for days, weeks or months.
In the farther future, phases two and three of the Facility will allow
fully integrated lunar base systems to be tested, base constrtuction
and operations teams to practice, and Earth-bound equivalents of
equipment at the lunar base to be run through problem-solving here on
Earth before implementation in Space.
Helix Fairweather
>This is the list of papers and articles that the Oregon L-5 Society's
>Lunar Base Research Team has been looking at over the past few years
>in relation to putting lunar bases in large lava tubes.
[list deleted]
Doug,
What is the L-5 Society of Oregon? and what is the status of this project?
using oregon caves to simulate moon conditions - is that what this is about?
thanks,
helix fairweather
Nick Szabo
>...a particularly interesting gentleman from SDIO at the Pentagon. His name
>is Col. Simon P Worden. He took over Griffin's job at SDIO. He is the deputy
>for technology development there. He spoke at lunch on monday about an SDIO
>project called Clementine. This mission is a technology demonstration of
>the Brilliant eyes sensor system. The mission is this. Launch from the
>earth to a lunar polar orbit, map the moon with high resolution sensors
>and do other tests to check out the instruments in a high radiation
>environment. Then the Eyes probe will DEPART lunar orbit, to an earth
>flyby and go out and do a flyby of the asteroid Geographos, which is a
>Near Earth Crossing Asteroid.
Clementine is, can I say, a brilliant idea. I have discussed it several
times on sci.space. The name clearly describes the motivation, for
those steeped in U.S. history. Unfortuneately, from the point of view
of an asteroid prospector, Geographos is a poor choice -- type "S",
silicate-dominated like Gaspra. Type "C" (carbonaceous, sometimes hydrated
and ammoniated) and type "M" (metallic, with meteoric nickel-iron and high
platinum-group concentrations) are much better choices. Perhaps they were
constrained by launch windows to type S, but I hope these guys have planetary
scientists and native materials people in on the planning.
Good descriptions of asteroid types and the near-earth asteroid
population can be found in _Asteroids II_, Binzel et. al. eds.
>The reason for doing this mission according to SDIO folks is to test the
>Eyes sensors in a radiation rich environment.
The Van Allen Belt is far more radiation rich than lunar orbit or the
anywhere Geographos goes. Perhaps they want to look at the Van Allen
Belt from a long distance in space.
>Clementine is supposed to fly next year.
Now, _that_ sounds good. But what is the launcher?
--
sz...@techbook.COM Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400, N81)
Helix Fairweather
aarrgghhh! i could have finished reading the postings before i jumped in to
ask questions!!
hx
University Space Society
>In article <3JUN1992...@judy.uh.edu> seds%7977...@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov w
>>Then the Eyes probe will DEPART lunar orbit, to an earth
>>flyby and go out and do a flyby of the asteroid Geographos, which is a
>>Near Earth Crossing Asteroid.
>
>Clementine is, can I say, a brilliant idea. I have discussed it several
>times on sci.space. The name clearly describes the motivation, for
>those steeped in U.S. history. Unfortuneately, from the point of view
>of an asteroid prospector, Geographos is a poor choice -- type "S",
>silicate-dominated like Gaspra. Type "C" (carbonaceous, sometimes hydrated
>and ammoniated) and type "M" (metallic, with meteoric nickel-iron and high
>platinum-group concentrations) are much better choices. Perhaps they were
>constrained by launch windows to type S, but I hope these guys have planetary
>scientists and native materials people in on the planning.
Going to Geographagos is not the primary reason for the mission. Testing the
brilliant eyes sensors is. Geographagos is a Near Earth crossing asteroid
(somewhere around one million miles) that is the reason that it was chosen
from my rememberance of the presentation.
>Good descriptions of asteroid types and the near-earth asteroid
>population can be found in _Asteroids II_, Binzel et. al. eds.
>
>>The reason for doing this mission according to SDIO folks is to test the
>>Eyes sensors in a radiation rich environment.
>
>The Van Allen Belt is far more radiation rich than lunar orbit or the
>anywhere Geographos goes. Perhaps they want to look at the Van Allen
>Belt from a long distance in space.
It's not quantitiy Allan it's quality. From what I read, most of the stuff in
the belts are accelerated electrons, H,O and N ions from the atmosphere and
for short periods after a solar flare an enhanced solar proton count. The
energy of these particles is lower (due to being decelerated by the Earth's
magentic field) than in interplanetary space. Also the Galactic charged particle
count is lower below the belts than above due to some shielding effect.
In Lunar orbit there is no deceleration of high energy protons, which are
similar in energy to high energy neutrons in a nuclear blast. Colonel Worden
specifically mentioned that good flares would enhance the value of the
radiation exposure. If the belts were better at providing energetic flux
counts they would have been used years ago. Look at some of the data from
UoSat 22's particle counters and the solar dynamics explorer. the WIND
mission when it launches next month will also provide good data in this area.
>
>>Clementine is supposed to fly next year.
>
>Now, _that_ sounds good. But what is the launcher?
I think that it is a Delta or an Air Force Atlas E.
Dennis, UAH
PS I have never heard you say a word about Clementine. It has only been around
about a year or less. Hope to hear more from other sources.