Rockets of ice? (ALICE)
Damon Hill
oxidizers.html
A frozen slurry of nano-sized aluminum powder and water ice makes a
pretty fair rocket. Whoda thunk it? Actually appears to work quite
well; aluminum will reduce water to hot hydrogen and aluminum oxide,
which should have a good Isp with fewer nasty components than the
standard solid rocket fuel formula that uses ammonium perchlorate
and synthetic rubber binder.
Suggested as a basis for in-situ rocket propulsion. Almost as
nifty as paraffin-based hybrid rockets.
--Damon
Pat Flannery
High energy oxidation of either pure powered aluminum or titanium in
contact with pure oxygen could indeed generate a high specific impulse
in regards to a rocket's efficiency, but I'm keen to see how you get the
ground metallic fuel to the combustion chamber in a non-fluid form.
Pat
Steve Hix
Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> "Theoretically, ALICE can be manufactured in distant places like the
> moon or Mars, instead of being transported to distant locations at high
> cost."
>
> Yup. Plenty of water on the moon and Mars.
Depending on where you try to extract it, there might be more than
enough, yes.
Damon Hill
news:b5WdncMkv8tiVA7X...@posted.northdakotatelephone:
Not to mention slag formation in the combustion chamber. In a solid
fuel propellant grain, the slag would be blown out promptly (except that
some seems to puddle around the nozzle flex joint).
It's amusing to me to think of water as an oxidizer, but it emphasizes
how energetic burning aluminum (and other metals) can be, stripping the
oxygen from hydrogen ash with lots of excess energy, which in turn gets
the copious hydrogen really hot.
Now if I could just find out what the expected vacuum Isp would be...
Upper stage motors based on this chemistry might have compelling
advantages, despite the inconvenience of having to keep them frozen.
And I am reminded that aluminum is an important component of modern
high energy explosives; nano aluminum would only be an improvement in
the energy yield. I suspect the production and distribution of the
stuff will be closely monitored.
--Damon
Steve Hix
Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> I'm not aware that water in any quantity has been found on the moon.
Definitely located on Mars. The jury's not in yet on the moon, which is
why the "might be".
It's not yet certain that there isn't any there, and some evidence for
it.
Earl_Colby_Pottinger
> Pat Flannery <flan...@daktel.com> wrote:
>
> I believe what's being talked about is a SOLID rocket motor, Pat. You
> get the ground metallic fuel to the combustion chamber the same way
> you get the ammonium perchlorate to the combustion chamber in a SRB.
>
> Alternatively, it seems to me that if you ground the metal fine enough
> you could use 'powder' injectors, as it would behave much like a
> fluid.
They described the original mixture as being like toothpaste.
This means that if it does not act like a non-Newtonian fluid that it
will flow under pressure.
So if instead of freezing the mixture they just (Ha, ha, ha - 'JUST' I
said as if it would be easy) feed this mixture into the combustion
chamber with extra oxygen and/or water also injected you should have
an interesting rocket design.
Earl Colby Pottinger
Derek Lyons
>They described the original mixture as being like toothpaste.
>
>This means that if it does not act like a non-Newtonian fluid that it
>will flow under pressure.
>
>So if instead of freezing the mixture they just (Ha, ha, ha - 'JUST' I
>said as if it would be easy) feed this mixture into the combustion
>chamber with extra oxygen and/or water also injected you should have
>an interesting rocket design.
There was a guy I saw somewhere recently who was seriously proposing
to save on booster weight by using a fuel with 'the consistency of a
stick of chewing gun' - and feeding it from a drum on the ground to
the booster inflight.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Damon Hill
and the flight firing. The comments below are somewhat enlightening
as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7siH1Ausc
Looked pretty energetic to me, though it also produces a lot of
slag (molten aluminum oxide). Given there's lot of really
hot hydrogen released, wonder if this could be used to augment
thrust with atmospheric oxygen?
--Damon
Pat Flannery
>
> They described the original mixture as being like toothpaste.
That rings a bell; this was supposed to use a toothpaste-consistency
propellant also:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/030606p1.xml
(see page 4)
Pat
Pat Flannery
>
> There was a guy I saw somewhere recently who was seriously proposing
> to save on booster weight by using a fuel with 'the consistency of a
> stick of chewing gun' - and feeding it from a drum on the ground to
> the booster inflight.
>
That ranks right up there with Korolev's minishuttle that was going to
be pulled skyward via a cable attached to the tail end of the core stage
of a R-7.
How exactly are you supposed to keep the fuel stick from being ignited
by the exhaust of the ascending rocket as it is wound up into it?
Pat
Pat Flannery
>
> Looked pretty energetic to me, though it also produces a lot of
> slag (molten aluminum oxide). Given there's lot of really
> hot hydrogen released, wonder if this could be used to augment
> thrust with atmospheric oxygen?
Ah-ha! The plot thickens! From the Aviation Week "Blackstar" article
(page 4 again):
"The orbiter's belly appears to be contoured with channels, riblets or
'strakelets' that direct airflow to engine inlets and help dissipate
aerodynamic heating. These shallow channels may direct air to a complex
system of internal, advanced composite-material ducts, according to an
engineer who says he helped build one version of the orbiter in the
early 1990s. Air is directed to what is believed to be aerospike engines
similar to those once planned for use on the NASA/Lockheed Martin X-33."
Pat
Jim Davis
> There was a guy I saw somewhere recently who was seriously
> proposing to save on booster weight by using a fuel with 'the
> consistency of a stick of chewing gun' - and feeding it from a
> drum on the ground to the booster inflight.
http://www.universaltransportsystems.com
Jim Davis
Pat Flannery
Oh, you have to love that... it flies at Mach 22, and you build it in
your garage as well. :D
Pat
Derek Lyons
>Derek Lyons wrote:
>>
>> There was a guy I saw somewhere recently who was seriously proposing
>> to save on booster weight by using a fuel with 'the consistency of a
>> stick of chewing gun' - and feeding it from a drum on the ground to
>> the booster inflight.
>>
>
>That ranks right up there with Korolev's minishuttle that was going to
>be pulled skyward via a cable attached to the tail end of the core stage
>of a R-7.
As a general rule, there are damm few alt.launch techs so outright
batshit crazy that there isn't *someone* (otherwise reasonable) who
will champion it.
>How exactly are you supposed to keep the fuel stick from being ignited
>by the exhaust of the ascending rocket as it is wound up into it?
IIRC handwavium and flying the booster at such an angle that the
exhaust didn't impinge on the fuel stick. I.E. don't ask me to defend
it, I merely report it... :)
Derek Lyons
Pat Flannery
>> http://www.universaltransportsystems.com
>
> Lord...
The sound of the fuel strip coming off of the reel at Mach 20+ is really
going to be something to hear. :D
Pat
Jim Davis
>>> http://www.universaltransportsystems.com
> The sound of the fuel strip coming off of the reel at Mach 20+
> is really going to be something to hear. :D
In all fairness, Pat, their plan calls for the fuel ribbon to be
completely unwound while still at (relatively) low speeds. Then the
(very long) fuel ribbon trailing behind the craft will be steadily
wound in and consumed as the vehicle accelerates.
But I think their chances of success lie somewhere between
microscopic and none.
Jim Davis
Peter Stickney
" the leading high speed global passenger kit aircraft developer."
Certainly an undisputable claim.
f course, the statement that thy are the trailing high speed global
passenger kit aircraft developer is just as true.
It's easy to be the leader when you've got a set with one element.
--
Pete Stickney
The better the Four Wheel Drive, the further out you get stuck.