Suggestions needed: Condensing steam in space
byblow
I need something that�s completely automated and can extract 100
tonnes of water per day from steam (does 100 tonnes of steam 100
tonnes of water?).
This condenser, heat exchanger or whatever has to function realiably
despite lots of dissolved solids in the steam, so it has to be highly
resistant to fouling.
It also has to be as compact as possible, weigh as little as possible,
and use as little electricity as possible.
My goal is to extract 4,800-6,000 tonnes of water from steam in 90
days or less. After that, I don't care if the condenser is a total
loss.
I've read that condensers at power plants typically use a vacuum or
partial vacuum to suck in steam, and also to expand it for more
efficient cooling. Could the natural vacuum of space be used for these
purposes?
I appreciate any help I can get!
MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Note, not really on-topic, but intriuging and I want to see where this develops.
Keith Henson
> I need something that s completely automated and can extract 100
> tonnes of water per day from steam (does 100 tonnes of steam 100
> tonnes of water?).
Yes. Conservation of mass.
> This condenser, heat exchanger or whatever has to function realiably
> despite lots of dissolved solids in the steam, so it has to be highly
> resistant to fouling.
Steam doesn't have dissolved solids. Wet steam, where there are water
drops in the steam can carry over some solids. But the side of a heat
exchanger that gets fouled is usually the side with the heat rise
rather than the condensing side.
> It also has to be as compact as possible, weigh as little as possible,
> and use as little electricity as possible.
Condensing steam is an energy source rather than a sink.
> My goal is to extract 4,800-6,000 tonnes of water from steam in 90
> days or less. After that, I don't care if the condenser is a total
> loss.
You have not stated the most important operating conditions. Is this
on earth? Mars, the moon or free space (zero g)?
The biggest problem (if in space) will be the radiator area. Mars,
you could probably transfer the heat to the atmosphere.
> I've read that condensers at power plants typically use a vacuum or
> partial vacuum to suck in steam, and also to expand it for more
> efficient cooling. Could the natural vacuum of space be used for these
> purposes?
No.
byblow
> On Oct 11, 6:44 pm, byblow <pstur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I need something that s completely automated and can extract 100
> > tonnes of water per day from steam (does 100 tonnes of steam 100
> > tonnes of water?).
>
> Yes. Conservation of mass.
>
> > This condenser, heat exchanger or whatever has to function realiably
> > despite lots of dissolved solids in the steam, so it has to be highly
> > resistant to fouling.
>
> Steam doesn't have dissolved solids. Wet steam, where there are water
> drops in the steam can carry over some solids. But the side of a heat
> exchanger that gets fouled is usually the side with the heat rise
> rather than the condensing side.
>
> > It also has to be as compact as possible, weigh as little as possible,
> > and use as little electricity as possible.
>
> Condensing steam is an energy source rather than a sink.
Could you please expound upon this? I had thought of using the steam
to spin a turbine for electricity, but since this would be in free
space, I was concerned about a resulting need for radiators, which are
heavy.
Could something like a radiator serve as a steam condenser? If so,
that could work nicely: The steam spins a turbine to generate
electricity, then flows through a radiator (which uses no electricity)
where it condenses. Would it be feasible to use electricity generated
by the steam to actively refrigerate some part of the hardware to
complement the radiators?
>
> > My goal is to extract 4,800-6,000 tonnes of water from steam in 90
> > days or less. After that, I don't care if the condenser is a total
> > loss.
>
> You have not stated the most important operating conditions. Is this
> on earth? Mars, the moon or free space (zero g)?
Free space in zero g.
>
> The biggest problem (if in space) will be the radiator area. Mars,
> you could probably transfer the heat to the atmosphere.
I believe the radiators on the ISS have a capacity of ~ 1-tonne to 10
KW (heat). Any idea how many tonnes of ISS-quality radiators would be
needed for the condensation of 100 tonnes of steam per day? Let's say
the temperature of the steam is 600 kelvin and 5 tonnes of steam are
produced per hour.
>
> > I've read that condensers at power plants typically use a vacuum or
> > partial vacuum to suck in steam, and also to expand it for more
> > efficient cooling. Could the natural vacuum of space be used for these
> > purposes?
>
> No.>
Darn! I was really hoping the natural vacuum could be somehow useful
for condensing or filtering the steam/water.
Thank you very much for your help, Keith! If anything ever comes of
this, I won't forget you.
Keith Henson
> On Oct 12, 9:45 pm, Keith Henson <hkeithhen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 11, 6:44 pm, byblow <pstur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I need something that s completely automated and can extract 100
> > > tonnes of water per day from steam (does 100 tonnes of steam 100
> > > tonnes of water?).
>
> > Yes. Conservation of mass.
>
> > > This condenser, heat exchanger or whatever has to function realiably
> > > despite lots of dissolved solids in the steam, so it has to be highly
> > > resistant to fouling.
>
> > Steam doesn't have dissolved solids. Wet steam, where there are wate
r
> > drops in the steam can carry over some solids. But the side of a hea
t
> > exchanger that gets fouled is usually the side with the heat rise
> > rather than the condensing side.
>
> > > It also has to be as compact as possible, weigh as little as possible
,
> > > and use as little electricity as possible.
>
> > Condensing steam is an energy source rather than a sink.
>
> Could you please expound upon this? I had thought of using the steam
> to spin a turbine for electricity, but since this would be in free
> space, I was concerned about a resulting need for radiators, which are
> heavy.
and a cold sink. In space radiators are the only game in town to get
rid of heat.
> Could something like a radiator serve as a steam condenser? If so,
> that could work nicely: The steam spins a turbine to generate
> electricity, then flows through a radiator (which uses no electricity)
> where it condenses. Would it be feasible to use electricity generated
> by the steam to actively refrigerate some part of the hardware to
> complement the radiators?
>
> > > My goal is to extract 4,800-6,000 tonnes of water from steam in 90
> > > days or less. After that, I don't care if the condenser is a total
> > > loss.
>
> > You have not stated the most important operating conditions. Is this
> > on earth? Mars, the moon or free space (zero g)?
>
> Free space in zero g.
1979. http://www.nss.org/settlement/L5news/L5news1979.htm July and
August issues.
# Gas Entrained Solids - A Heat Transfer Fluid For Use In Space, Part
1
# by H. Keith Henson & K. Eric Drexler
The numbers in the papers are still valid.
> > The biggest problem (if in space) will be the radiator area. Mars,
> > you could probably transfer the heat to the atmosphere.
>
> I believe the radiators on the ISS have a capacity of ~ 1-tonne to 10
> KW (heat). Any idea how many tonnes of ISS-quality radiators would be
> needed for the condensation of 100 tonnes of steam per day? Let's say
> the temperature of the steam is 600 kelvin and 5 tonnes of steam are
> produced per hour.
would be a very unusual design that condensed water at 600 deg K.
> > > I've read that condensers at power plants typically use a vacuum or
> > > partial vacuum to suck in steam, and also to expand it for more
> > > efficient cooling. Could the natural vacuum of space be used for thes
e
> > > purposes?
>
> > No.>
>
> Darn! I was really hoping the natural vacuum could be somehow useful
> for condensing or filtering the steam/water.
engineering. The net is loaded with resources to bring you up to
speed.
> Thank you very much for your help, Keith! If anything ever comes of
> this, I won't forget you.
Keith