Russian Moonbase Art -- Original or Stolen??
Jim Oberg
Russian Moonbase Art -- Original or Stolen??
Here's a newspaper image from Moscow
about a possible moonbase built by Russia:
http://www.kp.ru/upimg/photo/57527.jpg
Is that art original, or is it copied from an
existing Western illustration? I don't
recognize it right away.
Neil Fraser
I hope it's not NASA. Those solar panels are attached horizontally by
a single point. Great in space, but they'll snap off in lunar gravity.
Jim Logajan
> Russian Moonbase Art -- Original or Stolen??
Why do you think it is stolen?
Jim Oberg
"Jim Logajan" <Jam...@Lugoj.com> wrote
> Why do you think it is stolen?
Tradition.
The Soviets routinely stole space art from Western publications,
painted hammer/sickles on the sides, and published them as
great new USSR advanced plans...
Chuck Stewart
(The zapkitty saves the image to desktop, zooms
and zooms again in the Gimp, and tries to decipher
the resulting pixelated hash with his fragmentary
vision...)
Certain elements seem to give it a Vincent DiFate
look, especially the helmets, but it's nowhere near
blue enough :)
Also, I think I'd recognize that semi-2001 lander
in the background if I'd seen it before.
I say original, but very derivative. Or I could
be wrong :)
--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"
Julian Bordas
> Rusty wrote:
>>website without the Russian captions:
>>
>>http://www.challenger.org/pacct/Images/LunarBase-fs.jpg
>>
>>http://www.challenger.org/pacct/Learning/
>>
>>The Challenger.org website has this copyright message on the same
>>webpage as
>>the picture in question:
>>
>>"Sojourner®, Mars Rover® and spacecraft design and images copyright
>>1996-97, California Institute fo Technology. All rights reserved.
>>Further reproduction is prohibited."
>>
>>Rusty
>
>
> In the larger image on the Challenger.org website, you can see the
> artists signature on
> the picture. It appears to be signed by Roger Arno.
>
> Rusty
>
The same signature is on the "Russian" version.
Bloody Commie Theives!!
--
Julian Bordas
Rockets should land on their tails
as God and Heinlein intended
Jim Oberg
"Thomas Lee Elifritz" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote...
[actually, did NOT write]
Oops, Jim, sorry, your instincts were spot on,
and I was naive to give the Russians the
benefit of the doubt ... I'll be warier in the future.
JimO adds: But no, he didn't write that... <grin>
Jim Oberg
"Rusty" <reuben...@yahoo.com> wrote
> I found the same picture on the Challenger.org website without the Russian
> captions:
Well done! Space historians the world over are grateful!
Seriously -- thanks, Rusty. A tribute to your eye/brain/mnemonic functions,
and
to the power of space newsgroups.
Now, of course, the Russified version did not CLAIM it was
an original piece of art -- they just let viewers assume so.
Pat Flannery
Neil Fraser wrote:
I want to know what's in the sphere on the back of the rover- is that
supposed to be a reactor?
Pat
Pat Flannery
Jim Logajan wrote:
Once again the ugly American doubts ability of Russia to produce
world-class space machinery, like N-1 rocket - whose early plans were
stolen by Hitlerite Hooligan von Braun for pathetic "Colliers" article
calling for enslavement of all working people under terrible threat of
big round wheel space station hanging overhead like bloated Capitalist-
Zionist bagel.
HAH! Mighty Taran cosmorocket interceptor would toast space bagel and
crew of imperialist war-mongers with ease of snapping dissident's arm on
cold Lubyanka day.
Space Shuttle is nothing but cheap knock-off copy of Mighty Buran
Shuttle, which was first designed by Myasishchev in 1936.
But stupid Americans used cheap silica tiles rather than pig-iron ingots
for heat protection as original plan called for, so is no wonder that
"Space Shuttle" is "Space Shittle" when comes to working right! :-)
Pat
Carsten Nielsen
I laughed when I noticed a Great New Plan for satellites in an Amirican
Magazine:
You can launch comsats into 12 hour elliptical orbits.
Just came 20 years after they invented Molniya.
But a lot of the ideas the Soviets carried out came from Western
sources, or they did them just before the west did them.
Regards
Carsten Nielsen
Denmark
Jim Oberg
"Thomas Lee Elifritz" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote
> They are our international space partners, Jim.
> Get over it.
> http://cosmic.lifeform.org
OK, we give them a pass to violate international copyright, no big deal.
What other international agreements would you give them passes to violate?
<grin>
Pat Flannery
Rusty wrote:
>In the larger image on the Challenger.org website, you can see the
>artists signature on
>the picture. It appears to be signed by Roger Arno.
>
>
Capitalist lies! Picture says "Russians Are Now!"- is salute to the
"hip" and "with it" nature of Russian society of today, where everyone
is a "cool cat", and no more do "power trips" of old order afflict the
populace with their "heaviness".
Would write more, but is time to go to coffee house for beat poetry
reading. Tonight former KGB officer tells how he beat poets as he is
accompanied by bongo drum. Will be very "waycool" and "trippy". ;-)
Pat
Jim Oberg
don't want to have to answer. Chicken-n-n-n-n-n-n-n.......
"Thomas Lee Elifritz" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in message
news:bKPCf.17414$%I1....@fe17.lga...
> Jim Oberg wrote:
>
>> "Thomas Lee Elifritz" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote
>
>>> They are our international space partners, Jim.
>>> Get over it.
>
>> OK, we give them a pass to violate international copyright, no big deal.
>
> Why don't you call up Roger Arno and ask him what he thinks?
>
>> What other international agreements would you give them passes to
>> violate?
>
> You mean this NASA?
Jim Oberg
"Pat Flannery" <fla...@daktel.com> wrote
> Would write more, but is time to go to coffee house for beat poetry
> reading. Tonight former KGB officer tells how he beat poets as he is
> accompanied by bongo drum. Will be very "waycool" and "trippy". ;-)
Beating poets? That isn't the way
chairman Andropov taught them
to treat their captives! His way
was -- take to roof andropov.
dmitrik
> "Rusty" <reuben...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > I found the same picture on the Challenger.org website without the Russian
> > captions:
> an original piece of art -- they just let viewers assume so.
simply identify pieces of equipment. The article itself talk about how
everyone (americans, russians, chinese etc) seemed to jump on the
bandwagon of lunar exploration.
Of course it is not nice to borrow other people's artwork without their
permission. Why don't you just drop a short message to the author of
the article (his email is there on the same page) and remind him about
that instead of bitching all around the usenet :)
vello
There were also different approach in stealing Western materials. I was
working as editor for biggest Estonian daily Noorte Haal back then and
we all the time make attempts to put materials about Apollo program
with graphics-images taken from Western magazines. Sometimes
successfully, sometimes not. It was not forbidden totally, but it
happens that Editor-in-Chief got spanking in some high Party Commitee
for "too many US crap", then for half a year we can't put anything. But
then again. This time we even don't have idea we are stealing - for us
it seems like trying to open even small window to the free world. btw,
Jim, your works were extremely popular back then, but of course we
can't "steal" them - they were impossible to print in SU. But they were
retyped manually and circulated amoung people from hand to hand.
Pat Flannery
Jim Oberg wrote:
A touch of Saruman there.
You don't think that there were troublemakers on top of the
Energia/Buran assembly building when it....nah, they wouldn't do
that.... (cut to scene of roof repair hooligan chain gang as they
prepare to escape by cutting a hole in the building's roof.)
I still like Stalin's little quote:
"To choose one’s victims, to prepare one’s plan minutely, to slake an
implacable vengeance, and then to go to bed ... there is nothing sweeter
in the world."
They never really did rise up to his level again in the pure terror
department.
Lenin's "A revolution without firing squads is pointless!" is a bit
hard-core also.
Pat
mike flugennock
Phew. Thanks, JimO. Ever since that old bird was chosen for Premier, the
mention of his name on the news gave me a compulsion to come up with a
similarly stupid gag. Can't help it. I love it. You saved me from myself.
Kinda what he did not to soon after become Comrade Premier, iirc.
--
.
"Though I could not caution all, I yet may warn a few:
Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools!"
--grateful dead.
_______________________________________________________________
Mike Flugennock, flugennock at sinkers dot org
"Mikey'zine": dubya dubya dubya dot sinkers dot org
Jim Oberg
Public embarrassment hurts.
Thick skins need piercing.
"dmitrik" <dmi...@mailandnews.com> wrote
Jim Oberg
John Savard
<james...@houston.rr.com> wrote, in part:
>"Jim Logajan" <Jam...@Lugoj.com> wrote
>> Why do you think it is stolen?
>Tradition.
>The Soviets routinely stole space art from Western publications,
>painted hammer/sickles on the sides, and published them as
>great new USSR advanced plans...
An often-used line-art drawing of the Univac I, I remember, was stolen
by the Soviets at one time as a picture of one of their new computers.
But these days, it's hardly necessary to keep up that tradition; the
Soviets do have the technological capability to draw pictures, even with
computer help.
John Savard
http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
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John Savard
<cos...@lifeform.org> wrote, in part:
>These are 'Russians', Jim.
>Our International Space Partners.
>The cold war is over. It's dead, Jim.
I don't know.
Russia, along with France, voted to obstruct the U.S. efforts to ensure
Iraq didn't pass along weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.
Russia keeps pushing for the right to ship fissionable material to Iran.
Russia indiscriminately attacked civilians in Chechnya, which helped
Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization al-Qaeda to make inroads there,
since no one else seems to be willing to defend the Chechen people.
And there is reason to believe that organized crime in Russia has an
influence on the government.
The government in Belarus protects criminals who defraud American
computer owners and telephone companies.
Other countries in the Commonwealth of Independent States appear to be
operating as dictatorships.
So I think it's premature to conclude that Russia has a government that
really believes in freedom, and is in harmony with the United States and
the rest of the democratic world. It still seems to see itself as in
rivalry and conflict with the United States.
John Savard
<cos...@lifeform.org> wrote, in part:
>You mean like Abu Graib, Gitmo and secret rendition?
>Torture in America ... er ... Europe.
>We're making up for lost time.
Yes, we remember how those Russian dissidents flew airplanes into
skyscrapers, killing thousands of innocent Russians.
At least we remember *now*, since you have helped us see the light.
I was just reading "Birthright", a graphic novel by Mark Waid (OK, the
TPB of a mini-series)... Lex Luthor launches a terrorist attack on
Metropolis in a post-911 world to try to get people to hate Superman
(and all Kryptonians), and at the end of the book, he is on trial, but
his lawyers were using a Twinkie defence.
Miranda warnings are named after a *rapist* who got let off because the
police didn't read him his rights.
Constitutional rights that prevent the innocent from being thrown in
jail are a great idea. That we need to let people known to be guilty go
free as well, to maintain them, seems to me not self-evident. Of course,
a few people who actually are guilty will go free if we can't lock
people up without evidence, but it seems that quite a bit of what goes
on in the name of Constitutional rights is not essential to freedom -
and is, instead, only bringing the court system into disrepute.
Guantanamo is the natural consequence of this process. It's the liberals
who have helped to make the streets unsafe that bear the real blame for
the need to deviate from precedent in this crisis.
OM
<james...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>"Thomas Lee Elifritz, Hitler's Bastard Child" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote
>rafvings
>
>PLONK
...Yes, Everyone should have killfiled him long ago when he went on
his first anti-semetic tirade. We managed to get him kicked off his
ISP, but apparently someone else was desperate for the cash he's
obviously bilked out of idiots with his hydroponic dope farm gear he
sells on his piece-of-shit website.
Everyone seriously needs to add the Nazi troll to their killfiles.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
John Savard
<cos...@lifeform.org> wrote, in part:
>Wow, that's ... fantastic.
The one connection that comic books have to the real world is that
they're written by people who live there.
If the notion of a mad scientist trying to get out of being punished for
large-scale violence through a spurious defense of having one's mind
affected by radiation poisoning seems plausible enough to use in a story
- it's because too much has happened in real life for people to have
faith that our courts are trying hard to punish the guilty.
Pat Flannery
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> Pat Flannery wrote:
>
>> They never really did rise up to his level again in the pure terror
>> department.
>> Lenin's "A revolution without firing squads is pointless!" is a bit
>> hard-core also.
>
>
> You mean like Abu Graib, Gitmo and secret rendition?
>
> Torture in America ... er ... Europe.
I think that those programs are a direct violation of the Geneva
conventions.
They are also stupid from the viewpoint of what they do to our image in
the world versus any information they are likely to yield, which may
well be what the prisoner thinks his torturers may want to hear rather
than the truth.
Still, we haven't gotten near Stalin territory yet, with laws that allow
children to be seized from their parents for bad behavior at age three,
to be imprisoned at age six, and executed at age twelve.
Pat
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
> <>I was just reading "Birthright", a graphic novel by Mark Waid (OK, the
> TPB of a mini-series)... Lex Luthor launches a terrorist attack on
> Metropolis in a post-911 world to try to get people to hate Superman
> (and all Kryptonians), and at the end of the book, he is on trial, but
> his lawyers were using a Twinkie defence.
> Miranda warnings are named after a *rapist* who got let off because the
> police didn't read him his rights.
> Constitutional rights that prevent the innocent from being thrown in
> jail are a great idea. That we need to let people known to be guilty go
> free as well, to maintain them, seems to me not self-evident. Of course,
> a few people who actually are guilty will go free if we can't lock
> people up without evidence, but it seems that quite a bit of what goes
> on in the name of Constitutional rights is not essential to freedom -
> and is, instead, only bringing the court system into disrepute.
>
Remember what Joseph Stalin said: "It's better to kill one hundred
innocent people than let one guilty person go free."
Go Joe! ;-)
Meanwhile, leaving Metropolis to return to the real world...where the
most evilly ambitious bald man in town is the former CEO of Halliburton,
and certainly no twinkie ...not all conservatives are fascists, and some
even respect the idea of constitutional law and what it means in a free
society - you know, like the one we had before 9/11, when the great
legal question of the day was whether a blowjob was what is legally
defined as "having sex" or not:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11079547/site/newsweek/
BTW- John Yoo is teaching law at Berkeley these days, which shows you
just how much Berkeley has changed since the late sixties.
Too much LDS, that's the problem.
Pat
DA
> Russian Moonbase Art -- Original or Stolen??
> Here's a newspaper image from Moscow
> about a possible moonbase built by Russia:
> http://www.kp.ru/upimg/photo/57527.jpg
It surely would not hurt to read the article the illustration came from to
be able to tell. I have trouble locating it on the newspaper's website. Do
you have the link?
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Pat Flannery
Jim Oberg wrote:
>
>Seriously -- thanks, Rusty. A tribute to your eye/brain/mnemonic functions,
>and
>to the power of space newsgroups.
>
>Now, of course, the Russified version did not CLAIM it was
>an original piece of art -- they just let viewers assume so.
>
The style wasn't very Russian looking anyway.
Speaking of space art, way way back I remember seeing a painting of two
Soyuz spacecraft approaching Skylab that illustrated an article about
how the Soviets could seize the space station in our absence.
Do you remember that one? It would be fun to see the artwork again.
Pat
>
>
>
>
>
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>
>Russia, along with France, voted to obstruct the U.S. efforts to ensure
>Iraq didn't pass along weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.
>
>
Well, they obviously passed them on to someone, as we never found
them...I think they flushed them all down the toilet when they heard us
knock on the door and yell "Team America, World Police! We're coming in
NOW!"
>Russia keeps pushing for the right to ship fissionable material to Iran.
>
>
Actually, we are in favor of that proposal. The idea is that Iran
forgoes uranium enrichment in exchange for getting the Russians getting
them uranium enriched enough for reactors, but not weapons.
>Russia indiscriminately attacked civilians in Chechnya, which helped
>Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization al-Qaeda to make inroads there,
>since no one else seems to be willing to defend the Chechen people.
>
>
Oh dear God, are we going to invade Chechnya now?
Oh look...it has oil!: http://www.amina.com/article/oil_op.html
These people are hungry for democracy!
>And there is reason to believe that organized crime in Russia has an
>influence on the government.
>
>
God knows that never happens here. Especially in Chicago.
>The government in Belarus protects criminals who defraud American
>computer owners and telephone companies.
>
>
Shoots down Americans in hot-air balloons also.
Assholes.
>Other countries in the Commonwealth of Independent States appear to be
>operating as dictatorships.
>
>
Hey...do you think United Fruit Company could get the inside track with
these boys?
>So I think it's premature to conclude that Russia has a government that
>really believes in freedom, and is in harmony with the United States and
>the rest of the democratic world. It still seems to see itself as in
>rivalry and conflict with the United States.
>
>
The fact that it doesn't see us as the guiding light of the world and
most civilized nation in world history shows you just how far it has
drifted from the truth of things. there is only one thing for it, and
that is to torture some Russians in our East European allies' prisons
like we do the Al-Queda suspects.
I'm sure the former Warsaw Pact members would be up for this, and
thoroughly enjoy its entertainment value in seeing Russia get its just
desserts. :-)
Pat
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>The one connection that comic books have to the real world is that
>they're written by people who live there.
>
>
I always wanted to live in North Am, especially if I had a girlfriend
that looked like Leeja Clane.
Not only is she a knockout, but she only wore one dress for around four
years, so she's very economical in regard to here clothing budget also.
This is the sort of girl you could take out for a hamburger and fries at
the local Robo-Restaurant, and not have her get all uppity and demand
that the food be sent back to the Chef-Rob because it was cold or something.
Unless of course the Chef-Rob was none other than the evil Pol-Rob H-8
in disguise, and the hamburger contained a tiny flying Killer-Rob that
was sandwiched in between the syntho-beef patty and kelp protein bun and
would fly out and try to kill her, only to be struck out of mid-air by
your lightning quick reflexes and steel-smashing karate chop fighting
abilities that you learned from robot 1A in your youth.
After that she'd almost have to blow you, wouldn't she?
>If the notion of a mad scientist trying to get out of being punished for
>large-scale violence through a spurious defense of having one's mind
>affected by radiation poisoning seems plausible enough to use in a story
>- it's because too much has happened in real life for people to have
>faith that our courts are trying hard to punish the guilty.
>
>
I've still got to keep that brain damage defense in mind from hitting
the ceiling beam in my "Boy's Life" lunar gravity simulator when I was a
kid. And I still want to know if Red Kryptonite will turn Krypto into
Kryptocommunist.
Pat
Pat Flannery
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>
> Clearly an overpopulated world based upon hydrocarbon combustion
> will inevitably descend into corruption, paranoia, fascism and fear.
Jeeze, CO2 can do all that?
(sniffs bubbles on glass of champagne, starts goose-stepping) :-D
>
>
>> Still, we haven't gotten near Stalin territory yet, with laws that
>> allow children to be seized from their parents for bad behavior at
>> age three, to be imprisoned at age six, and executed at age twelve.
>
>
> No, America is simply approaching the small African nation stage.
>
> All the weapons in the world will not save us.
>
> The only solution is up and out.
That's sometimes the best cure for a really bad hangover also, although
one has to be careful that it all hits the toilet. :-)
Pat
Eric Chomko
: "Thomas Lee Elifritz" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote
: > They are our international space partners, Jim.
: > Get over it.
: > http://cosmic.lifeform.org
: OK, we give them a pass to violate international copyright, no big deal.
: What other international agreements would you give them passes to violate?
: <grin>
Cripes man, do you think they're insistence to help Iran has anything to
do with us invading Iraq? Seems that the Cold War isn't really over.
Think about this, we don't need Russia's apporval or diapproval to invade
Iraq, and they don't need our's to support Iran. Also, do you feel any
kindren spirit to a Russian that honestly thinks to hell with the US/USSR
space partnership? I feel a kindren spirit to those Russians that support
the US/USSR partnership. Think about it.
Eric
Eric Chomko
[...]
: John Savard
: http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
I was interested in your JDN calculator as I have one of my own. See it
here: http://members.verizon.net/vze2wsvr/JDN.htm, also a frame from:
http://members.verizon.net/vze2wsvr/.
When I used today (1/31/06) for a test I got a different result between
the two. Now who is right? BTW, I had 2453766.5 and you had 2453767.
What is the day that the USNO uses for the day of the last added leap
second? It was added on 1/1/06. So, I'll enter 1/1/06 into my JDN
calculator, result: 2453736.5, yours: 2453737.
Now, what does USNO say? ftp://maia.usno.navy.mil/ser7/tai-utc.dat
2006 JAN 1 =JD 2453736.5 TAI-UTC= 33.0
Though, technically you are right as you state noon GMT, which is .5 to
the total. But why, when all references that I have seen are at midnight
GMT? I have always been confused with the .5, but once I treated it as a
constant. it all made sense. Now, your seemingly simpler way is confusing.
:)
This link has the best JDN calculator:
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.html
And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
The other issue is that if I'm going to treat the whole thing as an
integer, I'm more likely going to drop the .5 and go with what's left
over, as THAT is what I have in a leap second table of my own. This might
seem a tad nitpicky and no doubt that it is, but I'm still curious as to
why .5 is added rather than dropped.
Eric
: _________________________________________
Eric Chomko
: John Savard wrote:
Yes, that LDS will surely get you!
"Two things came out of Berkeley, LSD and Unix, and that isn't a
coincidence!"
Repeated many times by Unix haters everywhere...
Eric
: Pat
Eric Chomko
: Jim Oberg wrote:
Now that reminds me of the cheezy space film with Gene Hackman and Richard
Crenna, where the US astronauts are delayed in a return back to earth
because of a hurricane, while there oxygen is running out. Late 60s...okay
Google search: "Marooned".
Amazing how the Russian spacecraft appeared seemingly out of nowhere.
I forgot that Gregory Peck was in that film!
Link: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0064639/
Eric
: Pat
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
David M. Palmer
<echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote:
> And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
> why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
Because it was chosen by Herschel, an astronomer in UT-land, allowing
him to keep using the same date all night long, rather than remembering
to change the date in his logbooks at midnight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day
--
David M. Palmer dmpa...@email.com (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)
John Savard
(Eric Chomko) wrote, in part:
>And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
>why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
Yes, I'm afraid so.
John Savard
http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
John Savard
<dmpa...@email.com> wrote, in part:
>> And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
>> why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
>Because it was chosen by Herschel, an astronomer in UT-land, allowing
>him to keep using the same date all night long, rather than remembering
>to change the date in his logbooks at midnight.
Now I know how to eliminate all confusion!
Let's call them Julian *Night* Numbers!!!
John Savard
http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>I always wanted to live in North Am, especially if I had a girlfriend
>that looked like Leeja Clane.
>Not only is she a knockout, but she only wore one dress for around four
>years, so she's very economical in regard to here clothing budget also.
A *lot* of comic book characters always wore the same clothes. It was
felt that this made it easier for young readers to recognize them.
That happens to have been *my* all-time favorite comic book too.
I am not entirely untroubled by what is happening in response to 9/11,
but I don't think that an unyielding commitment to all the *excesses*
done in the name of democracy is the answer. There is a common-sense
middle road.
One should also remember what the stakes are.
If another terrorist attack happens in the United States - a *big* one
that kills hundreds of thousands of people - the consequences for
Arab-Americans, I fear, will be grim. And the police will be too busy
looking for any more terrorists to give them much protection.
Scott Hedrick
"Pat Flannery" <fla...@daktel.com> wrote in message
news:11tv9oj...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> John Savard wrote:
>
>>
>>Russia, along with France, voted to obstruct the U.S. efforts to ensure
>>Iraq didn't pass along weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.
>>
>
> Well, they obviously passed them on to someone, as we never found them...
To the contrary, while large stockpiles weren't found, artillery shells with
chemical weapons were found, as well as parts, facilities and documents
showing that, not only was Saddam trying to obtain them, but that Iraq was
actually manufacturing them. These stories appeared on the television
equivalent of page A35 on the major networks: mentioned once just before
going to break, and never heard about again.
Then, of course, there is the long-standing evidence that Saddam used
chemical weapons on the Kurds after the first Gulf War.
None of these *facts* support the anti-Bush media darlings, and since
Barbara Streisand saying nasty things about Bush gets more ratings than
someone who looks like Elmer Fudd sonorously droning on about *real
evidence* proving that Iraq had and was seeking WMDs, guess what gets aired?
It's not entirely the fault of the media- dirty laundry gets better ratings
than good news.
Scott Hedrick
"Pat Flannery" <fla...@daktel.com> wrote in message
news:11tv9oj...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> John Savard wrote:
>>really believes in freedom, and is in harmony with the United States and
>>the rest of the democratic world. It still seems to see itself as in
>>rivalry and conflict with the United States.
>>
>
> The fact that it doesn't see us as the guiding light of the world and most
> civilized nation in world history shows you just how far it has drifted
> from the truth of things.
Since their borders opened up, it's been far easier for Barbara Streisand
and her friends to go their and corrupt their youth.
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>
>
>>I always wanted to live in North Am, especially if I had a girlfriend
>>that looked like Leeja Clane.
>>Not only is she a knockout, but she only wore one dress for around four
>>years, so she's very economical in regard to here clothing budget also.
>>
>>
>
>A *lot* of comic book characters always wore the same clothes. It was
>felt that this made it easier for young readers to recognize them.
>
>
In the case of Leeja, they had a contest where the readers got to design
a new outfit for her to replace that strange black minidress outfit with
the plastic see-through skirt on the bottom:
http://sonicdan.com/Valiantart/Mag_Leeja.JPG
And no, I don't know what they were talking about, but I'll bet it was
something dirty.
Magnus is leering and wants her to do something, and she seems shocked
by his request.
I think this may involve a three-way with 1A, and his damned "Oil
Shower" perversion.
A friend of mine pointed out a interesting aspect of those transparent
antigravity elevator tubes that they used in North Am.
Since people just float one above the other as they ascend or descend in
them, what is to keep horny perverts from looking up Leeja's skirt from
below?
It doesn't look like she wears a bra, so for all we know she may not
have panties on either.
I'm also trying to figure out how those aliens from "Captain Johner and
the Aliens" ever get their space helmets on:
http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/CD/vh1/Vintage/captainjohner1.jpg
>That happens to have been *my* all-time favorite comic book too.
>
>
Yes, I know...being a member of Psi-Corps does have its advantages. ;-)
>I am not entirely untroubled by what is happening in response to 9/11,
>but I don't think that an unyielding commitment to all the *excesses*
>done in the name of democracy is the answer. There is a common-sense
>middle road.
>
>One should also remember what the stakes are.
>
>If another terrorist attack happens in the United States - a *big* one
>that kills hundreds of thousands of people - the consequences for
>Arab-Americans, I fear, will be grim. And the police will be too busy
>looking for any more terrorists to give them much protection.
>
>
That's probably exactly what Osama wants; we descend in to tyrannical
chaos, our economic system collapses, and the Arab world picks up the
pieces much as the West did after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
Which shows you what goes around comes around.
This whole thing has a weird "Dune" feel to it, and I wonder if Frank
Herbert himself wasn't seeing the future but darkly in a mirror.
What gets me is that we are playing this game very stupidly, especially
that Iraq invasion.
The original Axis Of Evil that must never get nuclear weapons consisted
of Iran, Iraq, and North Korea.
Iran and North Korea have both stated that they are trying to get them,
and in the case of North Korea may already have them. So we managed to
invade the one country on the list that didn't have any, nor was working
to get them, and now trying to do anything about the other two on the
list is going to be almost politically impossible.
Chalabi and the Iranians did a superb job of taking us to the cleaners.
They got the ear of this loonie-tunes administration and whispered
exactly what it wanted to hear into it. Iran got us to destroy its
number one enemy for it, and as an added bonus might well get southern
Iraq as part of "Greater Iran" in the fairly near future.
Be Seeing You.
Bester
Eric Chomko
: In article <drokic$23ip$1...@news.ums.edu>, Eric Chomko
: <echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote:
: > And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
: > why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
: Because it was chosen by Herschel, an astronomer in UT-land, allowing
: him to keep using the same date all night long, rather than remembering
: to change the date in his logbooks at midnight.
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day
Understood, but since day rollover is at midnight, Heschel aside, I like
my calendar days to match my JDN. JDN is mostly for converting the number
of day counts between two events anyway. As long as you're consistent it
doesn't matter.
Eric
: --
Eric Chomko
: On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:24:28 +0000 (UTC), echom...@polaris.umuc.edu
: (Eric Chomko) wrote, in part:
: >And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
: >why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
: Yes, I'm afraid so.
Are you rounding up? I'd say in this case truncation, despite the
mathmatical rule of rounding, makes more sense. I realize that as long as
you're consistent it doesn't matter, but I like keeping things sync'd up
at midnight.
Eric
: John Savard
Eric Chomko
: On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:25:23 -0700, "David M. Palmer"
: <dmpa...@email.com> wrote, in part:
: >In article <drokic$23ip$1...@news.ums.edu>, Eric Chomko
: ><echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote:
: >> And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
: >> why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
: >Because it was chosen by Herschel, an astronomer in UT-land, allowing
: >him to keep using the same date all night long, rather than remembering
: >to change the date in his logbooks at midnight.
: Now I know how to eliminate all confusion!
: Let's call them Julian *Night* Numbers!!!
Let me add to the confusion. A day consists of a day and night portion,
and in a non recursive manner. So the day part of a day starts at dawn and
the night part of a day begins at dusk. Surely the civil twilight part of
each belongs to one of them but which one?
<ducks>
Eric
: John Savard
Pat Flannery
Scott Hedrick wrote:
>To the contrary, while large stockpiles weren't found, artillery shells with
>chemical weapons were found,
>
The few we found (it was one or two IIRC) had residue of sarin in them,
but they were of such age that we weren't even sure that they were
effective anymore.
> as well as parts, facilities and documents
>showing that, not only was Saddam trying to obtain them, but that Iraq was
>actually manufacturing them.
>
We didn't find any gear for making them though, other than this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
this place had chemicals for making chemical weapons...so does the
average kitchen closet, provided it has ammonia and bleach in it. Our
"mobile biological weapons manufacturing trucks" turned out to be
hydrogen gas manufacturing trucks for weather balloons.
> These stories appeared on the television
>equivalent of page A35 on the major networks: mentioned once just before
>going to break, and never heard about again.
>
>Then, of course, there is the long-standing evidence that Saddam used
>chemical weapons on the Kurds after the first Gulf War.
>
>
We knew he had nerve gas, as he had indeed used it on the Kurds. We also
knew he had it because he got a lot of the technology to manufacture it
from the U.S. and Britain during the Iran/Iraq war, as well as chemicals
to manufacture mustard gas. He also got anthrax strains from us.
Our main reason for invading was that he was trying to develop nuclear
weapons, which turned out to be completely wrong.
>None of these *facts* support the anti-Bush media darlings, and since
>Barbara Streisand saying nasty things about Bush gets more ratings than
>someone who looks like Elmer Fudd sonorously droning on about *real
>evidence* proving that Iraq had and was seeking WMDs, guess what gets aired?
>
>It's not entirely the fault of the media- dirty laundry gets better ratings
>than good news.
>
Remember how Bill O'Reilly was sure that we would find WMDs? Remember
how Bill had to admit that we had found no WMDs, and he was wrong? Do
you consider O'Reilly to be a Bushbasher?
The present rational is that the WMDs were snuck into Syria when we
weren't looking. This presupposes that Saddam didn't want to keep them
around for possible use against invading American troops, and that Syria
would let these things come in knowing full well that this may be a very
good excuse for the U.S. to invade it also.
Pat
Pat Flannery
Scott Hedrick wrote:
>Since their borders opened up, it's been far easier for Barbara Streisand
>and her friends to go their and corrupt their youth.
>
She didn't force them to watch "Yentl", did she? That could destroy
anyone. :-)
Pat
John Savard
(Eric Chomko) wrote, in part:
>John Savard (jsa...@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid) wrote:
>: On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:24:28 +0000 (UTC), echom...@polaris.umuc.edu
>: (Eric Chomko) wrote, in part:
>
>: >And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
>: >why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
>
>: Yes, I'm afraid so.
>
>Are you rounding up? I'd say in this case truncation, despite the
>mathmatical rule of rounding, makes more sense. I realize that as long as
>you're consistent it doesn't matter, but I like keeping things sync'd up
>at midnight.
I believe in truncation - which is why I'm using noon. Otherwise, I
would be using a number that applies to a time yesterday.
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>I'm also trying to figure out how those aliens from "Captain Johner and
>the Aliens" ever get their space helmets on:
Probably a futuristic stretch plastic that could be electronically
stabilized.
>That's probably exactly what Osama wants; we descend in to tyrannical
>chaos, our economic system collapses, and the Arab world picks up the
>pieces much as the West did after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
>Which shows you what goes around comes around.
You underestimate the determination and resolve of the American people.
If worst comes to worst, yes, America might collapse into the dark night
of tyranny. Then, it would exhaust itself in a genocidal war against the
Islamic world... and *China* would pick up the pieces.
I expect we will do better than that, but even in the worst case the
West or the U.S. alone will manage to ensure that Osama bin Laden, even
if he gets (some of) what he wants... won't like it when he gets it.
>Chalabi and the Iranians did a superb job of taking us to the cleaners.
>They got the ear of this loonie-tunes administration and whispered
>exactly what it wanted to hear into it. Iran got us to destroy its
>number one enemy for it, and as an added bonus might well get southern
>Iraq as part of "Greater Iran" in the fairly near future.
Iran's nuclear program looks like it will lead to Iran being the next
country to undergo regime change. Which is entirely possible without
having the wheels fall off the U.S. military - you just have to get
manpower from a draft instead of from stop loss measures.
Of *course* a program of first Iraq, then Iran, will unnerve the Islamic
world - and others. But I'm not sure the U.S. is overreacting, since the
cost of underreaction can be a nuke dropping in unexpectedly.
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:42:11 -0600, Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com>
>wrote, in part:
>
>
>
>>I'm also trying to figure out how those aliens from "Captain Johner and
>>the Aliens" ever get their space helmets on:
>>
>>
>
>Probably a futuristic stretch plastic that could be electronically
>stabilized.
>
>
The transparent part could stretch, as that one alien that developed the
mental energy bumps on its head had it's helmet bulge out to form fit
over them. But there is what looks like a metal collar around the base
of the helmet that is far too small for the head to fit through. They
breath hydrogen peroxide BTW.
>Iran's nuclear program looks like it will lead to Iran being the next
>country to undergo regime change. Which is entirely possible without
>having the wheels fall off the U.S. military - you just have to get
>manpower from a draft instead of from stop loss measures.
>
>
You just mosey on down to Congress and propose a draft in the present
political climate.
If the Republicans were stupid enough to start one up, you'd be lucky to
have them keep one seat that's up for reelection come November.
Nevertheless I can see Bush proposing one....on the week before his
impeachment trial begins on the charge of diminished mental capacity.
Still, it would be a great way to get the youth of this country voting.
They'd be out voting by the tens of millions out of a desire not to get
blown up by a IED.
Pat
Eric Chomko
: On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 18:30:15 +0000 (UTC), echom...@polaris.umuc.edu
: (Eric Chomko) wrote, in part:
: >John Savard (jsa...@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid) wrote:
: >: On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:24:28 +0000 (UTC), echom...@polaris.umuc.edu
: >: (Eric Chomko) wrote, in part:
: >
: >: >And at midnight, my number is correct and at noon your's is correct. But,
: >: >why pick noon? To avoid a decimal point?
: >
: >: Yes, I'm afraid so.
: >
: >Are you rounding up? I'd say in this case truncation, despite the
: >mathmatical rule of rounding, makes more sense. I realize that as long as
: >you're consistent it doesn't matter, but I like keeping things sync'd up
: >at midnight.
: I believe in truncation - which is why I'm using noon. Otherwise, I
: would be using a number that applies to a time yesterday.
Actually, Hershel's JDNs increment from noon to noon vs. midnight to
midnight, as the regular calendar. When dealing with day-of-year as a
whole number, mapping JDN is done by JDN.5 in sync with DOY. At that point
JDN is done and any further refinement is best described as
DOY/HH:MM:SS.uuuuuu, vs. fooling with JDN.x, as that x is always .5 more
than the actual time. Anyway, that is the way I use and I do use it often
in my work.
Eric
: John Savard
Dr John Stockton
18:27:58 remote, seen in news:sci.space.policy, Eric Chomko
<echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> posted :
>
>Understood, but since day rollover is at midnight, Heschel aside, I like
>my calendar days to match my JDN. JDN is mostly for converting the number
>of day counts between two events anyway. As long as you're consistent it
>doesn't matter.
Then you're using Chronological Julian Date Number, provided that you've
correctly dealt with rounding the 0.5.
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Dr John Stockton
21:24:28 remote, seen in news:sci.space.policy, Eric Chomko
<echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> posted :
>I was interested in your JDN calculator as I have one of my own. See it
>here: http://members.verizon.net/vze2wsvr/JDN.htm, also a frame from:
>http://members.verizon.net/vze2wsvr/.
>
>When I used today (1/31/06) for a test I got a different result between
>the two. Now who is right? BTW, I had 2453766.5 and you had 2453767.
The JD or JDN scale starts at Julian BC 4713-01-01 12:00:00 UT (Monday;
noon in London). Astronomers use it.
Historians use scales starting Julian BC 4713-01-01 00:00:00 local time
(midnight, wherever). This is best called Chronological Julian Day
[Number], CJD.
Julian BC 4713-01-01 is Gregorian BC 4714-11-24.
Commonly, JDN - 2400000.5 is used : Modified Julian Date, MJD, Gregorian
AD 1858-11-17 UT (London time) being Day Zero.
One can count from the day Gregorian AD 1858-11-17 local time, and that
can be called Chronological Modified Julian Date, CMJD.
Since the BC/AD scale has no year 0, year BC N is calculated in ordinary
numbering as year -(N-1).
See via sig below.
>What is the day that the USNO uses for the day of the last added leap
>second? It was added on 1/1/06.
No. It was 2005-12-31 23:59:60 UTC, and that was round about dusk on
Dec 31 in the USA. The decision is taken by BIPM in France, from multi-
national data.
Eschew FFF.
>This link has the best JDN calculator:
>http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.html
Really? You've checked *all* the others?
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>They
>breath hydrogen peroxide BTW.
I thought it was ethanol. Of course, it is more of a catalyst to them
than an atmosphere...
>Still, it would be a great way to get the youth of this country voting.
>They'd be out voting by the tens of millions out of a desire not to get
>blown up by a IED.
That is a thought...
Jake McGuire
> You just mosey on down to Congress and propose a draft in the present
> political climate.
Oddly enough, such a thing was recently proposed. Look up the
Universal National Service Act of 2005.
> Still, it would be a great way to get the youth of this country voting.
> They'd be out voting by the tens of millions out of a desire not to get
> blown up by a IED.
Didn't work.
-jake
Pat Flannery
Jake McGuire wrote:
>Pat Flannery wrote:
>
>
>>You just mosey on down to Congress and propose a draft in the present
>>political climate.
>>
>>
>
>Oddly enough, such a thing was recently proposed. Look up the
>Universal National Service Act of 2005.
>
>
That's not a draft though, as it requires everyone to serve, not just
those whose number comes up.
It does show me that Senator Rangel is insane though, fair, even-minded,
but insane.
He's been spending too much time reading up on Sparta and watching
Starship Troopers.
You notice that you haven't heard that much about it though...this thing
is pure double enriched Kryptonite politically.
They even bring it up for a vote, and I'll be surprised.
Pass it, and there won't even be a wet spot where just recently an
elephant and donkey were standing.
Pat
Eric Chomko
: JRS: In article <drokic$23ip$1...@news.ums.edu>, dated Tue, 31 Jan 2006
: See via sig below.
: Eschew FFF.
I should have added, "IMO". Do you know of one better?
Eric
:
: --
Eric Chomko
: 18:27:58 remote, seen in news:sci.space.policy, Eric Chomko
: <echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> posted :
: >
: >Understood, but since day rollover is at midnight, Heschel aside, I like
: >my calendar days to match my JDN. JDN is mostly for converting the number
: >of day counts between two events anyway. As long as you're consistent it
: >doesn't matter.
: Then you're using Chronological Julian Date Number, provided that you've
: correctly dealt with rounding the 0.5.
:
Exactly! Isn't that the one most used by astronomers and space
advocates/professionals? Or some modified version of it (i.e. TJD).
Eric
: --
Chuck Stewart
> Pass it, and there won't even be a wet spot where just recently an
> elephant and donkey were standing.
But what if it was already in effect... as
another secret law?
> Pat
--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or watching Pat and counting down?"
Pat Flannery
Chuck Stewart wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 08:40:40 -0600, Pat Flannery wrote:
>
>
>
>>Pass it, and there won't even be a wet spot where just recently an
>>elephant and donkey were standing.
>>
>>
>
>But what if it was already in effect... as
>another secret law?
>
>
Secret draftees...yes, it would be just like in "The Last Starfighter"!
The person is dragged off to the military and a strange bumbling and
inarticulate clone is left in their place. Which leaves one wondering
where exactly the _real_ George W. Bush is? :-)
Pat
Scott Hedrick
> She didn't force them to watch "Yentl", did she? That could destroy
> anyone. :-)
Well, there goes all *that* therapy...
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 08:53:20 -0600, Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com>
>wrote, in part:
>
>
>
>>They
>>breath hydrogen peroxide BTW.
>>
>>
>
>I thought it was ethanol.
>
I wish I still had the comic; it got mentioned in one of the first
stories. I thought it was H2O2, but you may be right.
Their arms and legs always reminded me of sticks of chewing gum. Their
heads and eyes always brought a shark to mind for me. Question of the
week- are the slits on the sides of their heads gills or ears?
On this cover it looks like they can turn their heads around 180
degrees:
http://gregholland.com/valiant/CD/GoldKey/CaptainJohner/captainjohner1.jpg
Anyway it was nice that Gold Key did aliens that actually _looked_
alien, as opposed to the Star Trek type modified human type.
Seen this yet?: http://www.andrew3d.com/galleries/Magnus_stat.html
From the height of that Pol-Rob, I assume that's H-8...but it should
have more dents on it in that scene if it is.
What the Magnus artist were really good at was getting the perspective
views of North Am down great; and I loved those flying cars that looked
like a cross between the 1959 Corvette Stingray concept car and a
electric razor:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/sonicdan/valiant/magnusv1p3.jpg
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i19/1970_14mg.jpg
In fact, take the wheels off the Cadillac Cyclone, and it would look
right at home cruising around in the skies over North Am:
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i19/1970_16mg.jpg
Pat
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>I wish I still had the comic; it got mentioned in one of the first
>stories. I thought it was H2O2, but you may be right.
I *do* still have it.
The story it was mentioned in was the one in which colonists from Venus
who were taken over by alien time-shifters stir up a mob to attack the
aliens and smash their helmets.
The sister of one of the posessed Venusian colonists, herself not under
the control of the evil time-shifters, recognizes the smell of the
liquid spilling from them, and manages to keep the aliens alive by
taking ethanol from motor vehicles in the area.
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>The present
rationale
>is that the WMDs were snuck into Syria when we
>weren't looking.
I thought it was Belarus.
It seemed simple enough to me. Saddam didn't cooperate fully enough with
weapons inspectors, there was therefore reason to think he *could
possibly* be hiding WMDs, and, in a post-9/11 world, that was reason
enough. If he didn't really have WMDs, well, that's just Saddam's fault
for playing around that we overthrew a brutal, evil dictatorship that we
didn't really have to bother overthrowing for the sake of our own vital
interests.
Pretty soon now, the U.S. probably will change Iran's regime, since it
seems to be vaguely pretending that it might try to build nuclear
weapons. If we don't find any, it will just prove we attacked in time,
instead of too late.
It is true that pre-emptive war is considered objectionable in general,
and it is also very much out of character for the United States.
Historically, the world gave Germany and Japan every chance to avoid war
- but the democracies were, on the other hand, swift, by comparison, to
recognize Communist Russia as hostile. This has led the Left to conclude
the democratic world has a bad conscience as regards its own working
class. But whether we got around to recognize a problem in the Islamic
world early or late, there is a real problem there, just as both
Communism and fascism were real problems.
It isn't unreasonable that the average American blames other countries
for the fact that taxes continue to be levied in the U.S. for military
purposes. *Real* military aggression - like Saddam Hussein's invasion of
Kuwait, or Argentina's invasion of the Falkland Islands - is a crime,
and in a just world, the salaries of all our policemen and judges would
be paid for by the proceeds of convict labor, not taxes.
Crime is the fault of criminals. The rest of us shouldn't have to be
bothered; all negative consequences of attempted crimes (which should
invariably fail) should be confined to the criminal himself.
And so, we want a world were the democracies - Canada, Australia, New
Zealand, Israel, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and the United States, and
the nations of Europe (and, as well, Botswana, India, and Costa Rica
perhaps) - always and forever have peace, with no other country ever
attempting, or ever even being considered likely to possibly attempt,
aggression against them, so that they can stop spending money on
armaments entirely.
Then we can concentrate on important things, like ending world poverty,
and bringing about full racial equality.
Thus, any country that even *hints* that it might commit agression
against Israel, South Korea, Taiwan, or any other democracy, deserves
what may be coming to it. Or rather, the government does the deserving,
if it's the government's idea and not the people's.
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>Secret draftees...yes, it would be just like in "The Last Starfighter"!
>The person is dragged off to the military and a strange bumbling and
>inarticulate clone is left in their place. Which leaves one wondering
>where exactly the _real_ George W. Bush is? :-)
Off protecting one of the wetlands he created in the 832nd dimension?
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>That's not a draft though, as it requires everyone to serve, not just
>those whose number comes up.
As it does require people to serve who are not volunteers, it certainly
is an example of conscription.
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>I *do* still have it.
>
>The story it was mentioned in was the one in which colonists from Venus
>who were taken over by alien time-shifters stir up a mob to attack the
>aliens and smash their helmets.
>
>The sister of one of the posessed Venusian colonists, herself not under
>the control of the evil time-shifters, recognizes the smell of the
>liquid spilling from them, and manages to keep the aliens alive by
>taking ethanol from motor vehicles in the area.
>
>
Any clue as to what the rectangular golden things on their belts are?:
http://gregholland.com/valiant/CD/vh1/Vintage/captainjohner1.jpg
Pat
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>
>As it does require people to serve who are not volunteers, it certainly
>is an example of conscription.
>
>
Conscription yes, but I don't think that it's what's known as a "draft",
as that implies there is some sort of selection process from a group,
and not everyone is going to be selected:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/draft
Pat
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>On Wed, 01 Feb
>
>
>
>>The present
>>
>>
>rationale
>
>
>>is that the WMDs were snuck into Syria when we
>>weren't looking.
>>
>>
>
>I thought it was Belarus.
>
>
Sneaking them over the border into Syria would be a lot easier than
sneaking them over the border into Belarus unless world geography is a
lot different than I suspect.
>It seemed simple enough to me. Saddam didn't cooperate fully enough with
>weapons inspectors, there was therefore reason to think he *could
>possibly* be hiding WMDs, and, in a post-9/11 world, that was reason
>enough. If he didn't really have WMDs, well, that's just Saddam's fault
>for playing around that we overthrew a brutal, evil dictatorship that we
>didn't really have to bother overthrowing for the sake of our own vital
>interests.
>
>Pretty soon now, the U.S. probably will change Iran's regime, since it
>seems to be vaguely pretending that it might try to build nuclear
>weapons. If we don't find any, it will just prove we attacked in time,
>instead of too late.
>
>
You ever hear those rumors that Iran got its hands on some old Soviet
nuclear weapons after the regime fell?
We could have a very interesting surprise show up somewhere in the U.S.
if we attacked them.
As far as changing the regime by invading the place, our army is
stretched very thin the way it is right now without trying to invade a
third country besides Iraq and Afghanistan. You tell the troops in Iraq
that they are now going to take on another enemy and you are probably
going to have a full-blown mutiny on your hands.
Pat
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>Any clue as to what the rectangular golden things on their belts are?:
>http://gregholland.com/valiant/CD/vh1/Vintage/captainjohner1.jpg
They looks like pocketses to me.
Dr John Stockton
18:30:56 remote, seen in news:sci.space.policy, Eric Chomko
<echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> posted :
>Dr John Stockton (j...@merlyn.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>: JRS: In article <drquje$17i7$2...@news.ums.edu>, dated Wed, 1 Feb 2006
>: 18:27:58 remote, seen in news:sci.space.policy, Eric Chomko
>: <echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> posted :
>: >
>: >Understood, but since day rollover is at midnight, Heschel aside, I like
>: >my calendar days to match my JDN. JDN is mostly for converting the number
>: >of day counts between two events anyway. As long as you're consistent it
>: >doesn't matter.
Actually, that's not what JDN is intended for; it's intended to
represent an absolute instant of Newtonian time. Any daycount will do
for differences, though it may need to increment at the right time of
day.
>: Then you're using Chronological Julian Date Number, provided that you've
>: correctly dealt with rounding the 0.5.
>:
>
>Exactly! Isn't that the one most used by astronomers and space
>advocates/professionals? Or some modified version of it (i.e. TJD).
Please don't quite sigs.
NO. Historians (and normal people) use days matching local solar/civil
daylight, changing at local midnight; and the numbering of those
increments when CJDN increments.
Technical professionals use date numbers which change simultaneously
worldwide, the change being at 12 o'clock mean solar London time. That
12o'clock may be noon or midnight. JDN changes at London noon, MJD
changes at London midnight.
I don't know where UMUC is; but I don't expect it's civil time is
GMT/UT/UTC -- so if your count matches local time, its increments match
CJDN or CMJD. And it would be cleanest to adjust your constants for the
proper Day Zero.
TJD is a modified MJD, but short-termist : Truncated implies that the
leading digit is removed, so it has a 30-year cycle. However it may be
implemented as MJD - 40000. Better not to use it.
Henry Spencer
John Savard <jsa...@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid> wrote:
>Historically, the world gave Germany and Japan every chance to avoid war
>- but the democracies were, on the other hand, swift, by comparison, to
>recognize Communist Russia as hostile.
In fact, the two are not entirely unconnected. One reason why the West
was so reluctant to move against Hitler was that he was so vehemently
anti-Communist. (Plus, it was thought that turmoil in central Europe,
for whatever reason, was likely to benefit the Communists.) Hence some
of the shock and dismay when Hitler and Stalin signed a friendship treaty.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. | he...@spsystems.net
Dr John Stockton
18:28:40 remote, seen in news:sci.space.policy, Eric Chomko
<echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> posted :
>
>: >This link has the best JDN calculator:
>: >http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.html
>
>: Really? You've checked *all* the others?
>
>I should have added, "IMO". Do you know of one better?
Well, I thought I might have one myself; in fact I do, at
astron-3.htm#Now, but it's by no means equivalent.
It's a pity that USNO forces the Gregorian Calendar from 1582, when
neither Britain nor the British Colonies used Gregorian until 1752. Its
drop-down allows for 31 days in every month, which is not necessary.
And it does not offer local time, which may be a disadvantage for some.
I think their code might be streamlined; and I doubt whether it is
proper for a branch of USG to criticise (albeit in script comment)
products of US software writers. And USNO ought to know that the
Eastern US were not English colonies in 1752.
I'm putting a Gregorian <-> Julian Calendar Date converter in my
js-date8.htm; at this moment, though it uses CMJD as an intermediate, it
does not show or input CMJD. But now it does; or it will after upload.
Herb Schaltegger
(in article <$q0TWnCc...@merlyn.demon.co.uk>):
> And USNO ought to know that the
> Eastern US were not English colonies in 1752.
What the hell are you talking about? The American colonies didn't
declare independence until 1776.
--
Herb
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
~ RAH
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>I wish I still had the comic; it got mentioned in one of the first
>stories.
It was in one of the later ones, the backup to Magnus Robot Fighter 14,
where the Aliens were attacked and Reema recognized that what was in
their helmets was ethanol. In issue 15, when their helmets were being
refilled, one of the Aliens (possibly Commander Zarz, although he could
have been the one whose helmet was refilled, not the one speaking) noted
that ethanol was "more of a catalyst than an atmosphere".
Since a planet's atmosphere is just whatever surrounds it, regardless of
its metabolic role, there was a comment on the strangeness of that
comment in a subsequent letter column. Presumably, the alien meant "more
of a catalyst than an oxidizer".
Issues 7 and 8 of Magnus, Robot Fighter featured stories about the Earth
astronauts on the Ploorans' own planet, but these made no mention about
the composition of its atmosphere... or hydrosphere.
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:53:35 -0600, Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com>
>wrote, in part:
>
>
>
>>Any clue as to what the rectangular golden things on their belts are?:
>>http://gregholland.com/valiant/CD/vh1/Vintage/captainjohner1.jpg
>>
>>
>
>They looks like pocketses to me.
>
>
What does the nasty alien have in its pocketses? Show us precious, show us!
"Gray like a mouse, arms like chewing gum, grows bumps on its head,
ain't too dumb."
Pat
Pat Flannery
Henry Spencer wrote:
> Hence some of the shock and dismay when Hitler and Stalin signed a friendship treaty.
>
>
AFAIK, the only time anyone pulled the wool over Stalin's eyes, which
shows you just how cunning and convincing Hitler was.
When you can convince a clinical paranoid to trust you, you've really
accomplished something.
They say that schizophrenics are some of the most convincing people you
will ever meet, and in this case you had two extremely abnormal
psychologies running into each other.
Pat
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>Issues 7 and 8 of Magnus, Robot Fighter featured stories about the Earth
>astronauts on the Ploorans' own planet, but these made no mention about
>the composition of its atmosphere... or hydrosphere.
>
>
Yeah, that was one of the ones in the Valiant Comics reprint (which is
really top-notch BTW) regarding their hypnotic spies that appeared as
beautiful women to the Earthmen.
As long as we are on the subject of the Aliens, is it your opinion that
the purple sections of them are a exoskeleton carapace or some sort of
clothing or protective armor?
I noted that in one panel a resting alien had rolled up its legs and was
resting upright on the flat bottom edge of the purple section.
If they are an aquatic creature one could see how the flat strip arms
and legs would make really superb paddle/fins for moving in a liquid
medium. Driven forward with the thin edge forward and then turned ninety
degrees on the backstroke so that he broad surface is used would allow
very swift movement with little energy use.
An alternative method would be to send a muscle spasm down the arms and
legs to twist them down their lengths and convert them into something
resembling a turning corkscrew and allow forward swimming movement that way.
Wouldn't it be a blast to see someone computer animate these creatures
in a movie? Of course "Magnus" itself would make a great movie, and
could be every bit as much fun as the Terminator series now that CGI
would make the robots a piece of cake to do. "The Fifth Element" gave a
clue as to what a spectacular place North Am could be with its future
New York.
Now who to play Magnus and Leeja? The nominations are open. I always
thought there was a touch of Ann-Margret in the way Leeja was drawn. As
to the robots, that comic pretty much set my idea of what robots would
look like in the future. And-spoke-too. Those should be kept exactly as
originally drawn.
I still want to see something tall, steely, and menacing say:
"My-name-is-H-8. I-pronounce-it-HATE."
Pat
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>As long as we are on the subject of the Aliens, is it your opinion that
>the purple sections of them are a exoskeleton carapace or some sort of
>clothing or protective armor?
I think that the purple sections are a carapace.
>Wouldn't it be a blast to see someone computer animate these creatures
>in a movie?
Of course, since Ploor was also the home planet of the bad guys in the
Lensman series, there might be a problem. Actually, a bigger problem
would be due to the fact that the first installment of the feature
basically lifted its plot from a classic SF story by Murray Leinster.
>Of course "Magnus" itself would make a great movie,
And the letter columns of the comic had several suggestions about that.
It is true that *now* it would be possible to make such a movie.
Although even back when the comic came out, they could always have done
it with puppets.
>Now who to play Magnus and Leeja? The nominations are open. I always
>thought there was a touch of Ann-Margret in the way Leeja was drawn.
I do remember one person suggesting that Russ Manning's male heroes -
Tarzan as well as Magnus - all looked like one obscure B-movie actor.
>As
>to the robots, that comic pretty much set my idea of what robots would
>look like in the future. And-spoke-too. Those should be kept exactly as
>originally drawn.
There is only _one_ problem with the robots - their eyes. That they
should have eyes that look like bicycle reflectors instead of camera
lenses seems bizarre and puzzling, and audiences unfamiliar with the
source material would be critical. That could be changed, though,
without too much affecting the appearance of the robots.
The series did have some retcons. Senator Clane originally wore red
robes because he was one of a hundred senators, and thus not of the high
rank of the small number of councillors who wore blue robes. But to gain
plot possibilities, he became apparently second in importance to the
President of North Am.
And the appearance of riot-robs also was retconned, in my opinion.
But it was a magnificent comic book; magnificently drawn, and also
intelligent enough to take seriously.
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>And the letter columns of the comic had several suggestions about that.
>It is true that *now* it would be possible to make such a movie.
>Although even back when the comic came out, they could always have done
>it with puppets.
>
>
(Cut to image of Magnus slashing at the air over a Pol-Rob's head, and
the creature falling lifeless to the ground as its strings are cut.)
>There is only _one_ problem with the robots - their eyes. That they
>should have eyes that look like bicycle reflectors instead of camera
>lenses seems bizarre and puzzling, and audiences unfamiliar with the
>source material would be critical. That could be changed, though,
>without too much affecting the appearance of the robots.
>
>
I couldn't understand why the eyes would glow, when they should have
been absorbing, not emitting light.
But as long as we're just trying to make engineering sense of things
that the comic artists just thought looked cool, I'll take a crack at
the eyes- they are visual and infrared sensors and work like compound
lens insect eyes; each of the facets has a tiny optical sensor at the
bottom of a conical mirror assembly that sends a input signal from its
particular field of view to the robot's central processor system. In
this way the robot has a 180 degree field of view both horizontally and
vertically in front of it due to the way the eyes protrude from the head
(actually slightly more than 180 degrees horizontally as the two eyes
are slightly angled outwards from each other). Data is extracted from
variations in each of the facet's views as objects in front of the robot
move across its field of vision and are imaged by various of the facets,
or the robot itself moves about among stationary objects.
At night each of the facets projects infrared laser light outwards that
is then reflected back to the optical sensors allowing the robot to see
objects either by direct illumination and back-scatter of the laser
light (at close range) or by heat emission (further away). When seen
close up in daylight the tiny mirrors in the eye facets reflect light
giving the eye the appearance of glowing or glittering.
(Here's the eyes for anyone who doesn't know what we are talking about:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/sonicdan/valiant/magnusv1p4.jpg )
>The series did have some retcons. Senator Clane originally wore red
>robes because he was one of a hundred senators, and thus not of the high
>rank of the small number of councillors who wore blue robes. But to gain
>plot possibilities, he became apparently second in importance to the
>President of North Am.
>
>And the appearance of riot-robs also was retconned, in my opinion.
>
>But it was a magnificent comic book; magnificently drawn, and also
>intelligent enough to take seriously.
>
>
Until they came up with the metallic sodium robot that was going to grab
Magnus and burn him to death as his skin moisture ignited the sodium. A
robot he couldn't strike without getting his hand burnt! First off it
would have been far easier just to shoot him rather than build this
gizmo, and second I've dealt with metallic sodium and the stuff has all
the structural strength of cheddar cheese. The poor robot would collapse
under its own weight as soon as it tried to move. It also would be
advisable to check to see what weather was planned for North Am that day
(IIRC, they had complete weather control, and that figured into one of
the stories when the weather went berserk) as taking this widget out in
the rain wouldn't be advisable. :-)
On the other hand, the giant fat Trojan Horse robot from Sirius with all
the little flying killer robots inside was a very cool idea, although
having the ambassador from the dog star look like a dog was a little too
cute.
Favorite Magnus technology I'd love to have: Little gizmo that you set
on the ground and activate which then drills into the ground causing a
volcano to appear there a few hours later. I'd love to put one of these
in Bill O'Reilly's back yard.
Pat
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>But as long as we're just trying to make engineering sense of things
>that the comic artists just thought looked cool, I'll take a crack at
>the eyes- they are visual and infrared sensors and work like compound
>lens insect eyes;
That was probably part of the idea - and being lit indicated that the
robot was on.
>Until they came up with the metallic sodium robot that was going to grab
>Magnus and burn him to death as his skin moisture ignited the sodium. A
>robot he couldn't strike without getting his hand burnt! First off it
>would have been far easier just to shoot him rather than build this
>gizmo,
That is a structural failing of *all* comic books. Thus, the villains
fail to take off Batman's mask when they have the opportunity, or just
shoot him... the idea is, of course, to create more suspense than one
can legitimately get away with.
>and second I've dealt with metallic sodium and the stuff has all
>the structural strength of cheddar cheese.
I dealt with that by thinking of the robot as merely *coated* with
sodium.
>It also would be
>advisable to check to see what weather was planned for North Am that day
>(IIRC, they had complete weather control, and that figured into one of
>the stories when the weather went berserk) as taking this widget out in
>the rain wouldn't be advisable. :-)
Hey, Xyrkol *did* have the presence of mind to materialize it indoors.
>On the other hand, the giant fat Trojan Horse robot from Sirius with all
>the little flying killer robots inside was a very cool idea, although
>having the ambassador from the dog star look like a dog was a little too
>cute.
He had floppy ears like a dog, but he looked more like a frog with a
turtle's shell.
Fred J. McCall
:Pat Flannery wrote:
:
:> They never really did rise up to his level again in the pure terror
:> department.
:> Lenin's "A revolution without firing squads is pointless!" is a bit
:> hard-core also.
:
:You mean like Abu Graib, Gitmo and secret rendition?
:
:Torture in America ... er ... Europe.
:
:We're making up for lost time.
The fact that you have such a poor sense of proportion that you equate
the two cases demonstrates that, once again, you are an Elifritzian
Idiot.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Dr John Stockton
dated Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:17:10 remote, seen in news:sci.space.policy,
Herb Schaltegger <herb.sch...@NOSPAMgmail.com.INVALID> posted :
>On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 17:32:44 -0600, Dr John Stockton wrote
>(in article <$q0TWnCc...@merlyn.demon.co.uk>):
>
>> And USNO ought to know that the
>> Eastern US were not English colonies in 1752.
>
>What the hell are you talking about? The American colonies didn't
>declare independence until 1776.
Irrelevant, of course, 1776 being after 1752. Independence was actually
granted in 1783.
The earliest East-Coast colonies were English (at least mostly; some
parts may have been Scottish); but, after mid-1707, they were British
colonies.
The earliest successful colonials were subjects of both the King of
England (and Wales) and of the King of Scotland (who, from 1603, had
been the same person, ruling two Kingdoms in what is now termed Great
Britain); but from 1707, your predecessors were subjects of the Monarch
of a single British Kingdom.
From, I think, 1542 to 1800, the Monarch who ruled in England had
another Kingdom, in Ireland, after which the British and Irish Kingdoms
themselves were united.
Similarly today, the Isle of Man is part of the British Isles, though it
is not part of Great Britain, nor of Ireland, nor of the UK. But its
Head is the Lord of Mann, who is also ...
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.
Herb Schaltegger
(in article <MvFPHrDb...@merlyn.demon.co.uk>):
> JRS: In article <0001HW.C00AA026...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> dated Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:17:10 remote, seen in news:sci.space.policy,
> Herb Schaltegger <herb.sch...@NOSPAMgmail.com.INVALID> posted :
>> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 17:32:44 -0600, Dr John Stockton wrote
>> (in article <$q0TWnCc...@merlyn.demon.co.uk>):
>>
>>> And USNO ought to know that the
>>> Eastern US were not English colonies in 1752.
>>
>> What the hell are you talking about? The American colonies didn't
>> declare independence until 1776.
>
> Irrelevant, of course, 1776 being after 1752. Independence was actually
> granted in 1783.
Independence wasn't granted, it was earned by Cornwallis' surrender.
The Treaty of Paris merely formalized the status quo.
> The earliest East-Coast colonies were English (at least mostly; some
> parts may have been Scottish);
There were no "Scottish" colonies per se.
> but, after mid-1707, they were British
> colonies.
Under a succession of monarchs including Stuarts and then later
German-speaking Hanoverians. So?
> The earliest successful colonials were subjects of both the King of
> England (and Wales) and of the King of Scotland (who, from 1603, had
> been the same person, ruling two Kingdoms in what is now termed Great
> Britain);
Yes, the Stuarts I mentioned above.
> but from 1707, your predecessors were subjects of the Monarch
> of a single British Kingdom.
As they were prior to that, despite the title with which the head of
state chose to label him- or herself.
> From, I think, 1542 to 1800, the Monarch who ruled in England had
> another Kingdom, in Ireland, after which the British and Irish Kingdoms
> themselves were united.
Tell that to the majority of the Ireland, or (for that matter) over
half of those living in Northern Ireland.
> Similarly today, the Isle of Man is part of the British Isles, though it
> is not part of Great Britain, nor of Ireland, nor of the UK. But its
> Head is the Lord of Mann, who is also ...
Let me guess. The Tooth Fairy?