New Mission to the Moon
David Wetnight
are also interested in being part of the future of men going to the moon, I
have some information that you will like. I belong to a group called the
Artemis Society International. We are dedicated to putting a perminant
manned base on the moon in our lifetimes. If you are interested we would
like your help. All of the information about what we are planning and doing
is available at www.asi.org . We would like your input.
Thanks for your time.
David Wetnight
da...@intrex.net
Artemis Society International - We are going to the moon , care to join us?
David H Brummel
"W> If any of you that are interested in the history of men going to the
"W> moon are also interested in being part of the future of men going to
"W> the moon, I have some information that you will like. I belong to a
"W> group called the Artemis Society International. We are dedicated to
"W> putting a perminant manned base on the moon in our lifetimes. If you
"W> are interested we would like your help. All of the information about
"W> what we are planning and doing is available at www.asi.org .
ROTFLMAO!
"W> We would like your input.
Stop wasting your time, ASI is incapable of achieving any of its goals.
David H. Brummel
-----
If men had wings and bore black feathers, few of them would be
clever enough to be crows. --Rev. Henry Ward Beecher, mid-1800s
David Wetnight
Maybe if we had the benifit o your vast wisdom we might be able to do a
better job.
Thanks
Dave
David H Brummel wrote in message ...
David H Brummel
"W> I am glad you got a good laugh out of that.....
"W> Maybe if we had the benifit o your vast wisdom we might be able to do
"W> a better job.
"W> Thanks
Possibly true. ASI *was* doing much better when I was active. I don't really
think that it was *because* I was active, though, but perhaps you're right.
Personally, I think the lack of leadership and the inability to follow through
are far more crippling than my having left.
Gary Neff
Where are you planning on getting the billions of dollars your project will have
to have to succeed?
Gary
David Wetnight wrote:
>
> I am glad you got a good laugh out of that.....
David Wetnight
Well there are serveral efforts underway to raise fund for the project.
There are several companys which have started out of the volunteer effort
and are now making a profit. One of the major points of focus is the
entertainment industry. If you are interested in more info I would be glad
to add to this or you could find over 2000 relevant documents on the Artemis
Society web page , www.asi.org.
David Wetnight
Gary Neff wrote in message <37113DBE...@pacifier.com>...
David Wetnight
about the
Artemis Society is and what we are doing:
http://spacepolicy.org/page_gb.html
David Wetnight
robertd...@my-dejanews.com
out.
But the only way this can be taken care of is if MEMBERS address them!
Nobody ever said that this Project would be easy.
Why not give it one more try...and lets fix the roadblocks leading to the
"best/soonest/cheapest" Manned mission to the Moon.
See: www.transorbital.net for what Artemis Project Members can (and ARE )
doing.
Robert
Member Artemis Project www.asi.org
> "W> Maybe if we had the benifit o your vast wisdom we might be able to do
> "W> a better job.
> Possibly true. ASI *was* doing much better when I was active. I don't really
> think that it was *because* I was active, though, but perhaps you're right.
> Personally, I think the lack of leadership and the inability to follow through
> are far more crippling than my having left.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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Charles Buckley
> "W> Maybe if we had the benifit o your vast wisdom we might be able to do
> "W> a better job.
>
>
>Possibly true. ASI *was* doing much better when I was active. I don't really
>think that it was *because* I was active, though, but perhaps you're right.
>Personally, I think the lack of leadership and the inability to follow through
>are far more crippling than my having left.
>
Well, it seemed to me to be more a case of group-think than anything
else.
When their numbers on their business plan did not match their requirements,
they bounced the income numbers up to compensate. Since this was funny
money, that would work internally. But, any business type reading their
business plan would tag that instantly. The numbers weren't justifiable.
The biggest weakness in ASI is probably the lack of management skills
for business and an unwillingness to accept the affect that has on their
timetables. Their intitial timeline would have them as a multi-million
dollar corpration right now. Instead, they are struggling to publish a
magazine - and publishing is the area where they had the most business
experience. Right now, they are unlikely to attract any real dollars. No
track record and not taken very seriously.
They make a pretty decent think-tank though. Their engineering skills
are OK, but not exceptional. If they make a mark, it will be in the think-tank
study area. It is the largest study of it's kind available on the web.
--
Silly Customer, you can not hurt a Twinkee! Apu Nahasapeemapetilon
Randall Severy
> Stop wasting your time, ASI is incapable of achieving any of its goals.
>
Actually, ASI already is achieving the only official goal of the
organization: to provide the opportunity for the general public to
participate in a project to develop a permanent base on the Moon and to
provide a forum for developing ideas for such a moonbase (the think tank
that Charles Buckley mentioned). ASI has never had as a goal the actual
development of the base itself. You are confusing ASI with the Artemis
Project. ASI is simply one of over a dozen non-profit and commercial
organizations involved in the Artemis Project. The goals that you are
speaking of are spread across all of those organizations and like any
project with multiple parts, some are doing better than others.
Cheers..... Randall Severy
Randall Severy sev...@asi.org
http://www.cyberteams.com/severy
CyberTeams, Inc. in...@cyberteams.com http://www.cyberteams.com
Mt. Airy, MD "Building effective teams in cyberspace"
(301) 829-6144 Maintain your web site through your browser with
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...........................................................................
The Artemis Project Even a fool knows that you can not
touch
Building a Commercial Moonbase the stars, but that does not stop a
wise
http://www.asi.org man from trying. --
Anonymous
Randall Severy
> When their numbers on their business plan did not match their requirements,
> they bounced the income numbers up to compensate. Since this was funny
> money, that would work internally. But, any business type reading their
> business plan would tag that instantly. The numbers weren't justifiable.
>
The income numbers were increased to reflect new research into the
market potential of the products and services that will flow from the
Artemis Project, not to compensate for increased expenses. As of the
latest financial plan I've seen, the income numbers are somewhere in the
vicinity of *four times* the expense numbers, so there isn't any need to
stretch the numbers to match the expected costs.
>
> The biggest weakness in ASI is probably the lack of management skills
> for business and an unwillingness to accept the affect that has on their
> timetables.
>
Since ASI is not a business and will never be a business, the lack
of management skills in ASI is not a problem. As for accepting delays
on timetables, that only seems to be problem with residents of certain
newsgroups ;-).
>
> Their intitial timeline would have them as a multi-million
> dollar corpration right now.
>
The Artemis Project has never had an official timeline, it's just
that certain people insist on asking for timelines and ignore caveats
like "proposed timeline" and "these are rough estimates only". Some
people insist on timelines being engraved in stone and then get all bent
out of shape when plans change, as they always do in any large venture.
And as has been mentioned many times before, ASI will never be a
multi-million dollar corporation. *The Artemis Project* will be
developed by many multi-million dollar corporations, some founded as
part of the Artemis Project, as well as existing companies that join the
project.
>
> Instead, they are struggling to publish a
> magazine - and publishing is the area where they had the most business
> experience. Right now, they are unlikely to attract any real dollars. No
> track record and not taken very seriously.
>
ASI is not planning to publish a magazine, LRC Publications is,
and LRC Publications is just one of over a dozen organizations involved
in the Artemis Project. One of those other organizations is CyberTeams,
another startup involved in the Artemis Project, and we *have* attracted
real dollars. Much of the current activity in the Artemis Project is
going on in the various commercial ventures affiliated with the project,
and by definition most of those activities are kept confidential for
obvious reasons.
>
> They make a pretty decent think-tank though. Their engineering skills
> are OK, but not exceptional. If they make a mark, it will be in the think-tank
> study area. It is the largest study of it's kind available on the web.
>
Since the primary purpose of ASI is to be just that, a think-tank,
I'll take that as a compliment ;-). As one of the key non-profit
organizations involved in the Artemis Project, ASI was created to
provide an environment for anyone to contribute ideas and meet and work
with other people involved in the project. I personally think it has
done a very good job based on what it was intended to do. Now if people
would only stop confusing ASI with the Artemis Project! In addition to
the think-tank role, ASI also has turned out to be an excellent resource
pool for finding people with the interests and talents that are needed
by the commercial companies involved in the project. CyberTeams, The
Lunar Resources Company, TransOrbital, LunaSoft, and several other
companies have been partially or fully staffed by ASI members.
Cheers...... Randall Severy
Randall Severy
> Replying to a message of Gary Neff to All:
> GN> Just out of curiosity...
> GN> Where are you planning on getting the billions of dollars your project
> GN> will have to have to succeed?
>
> IIRC, Greg Bennett has made frequent mention of a lemonade stand in Alice
> Springs. I presume the trinkets they are selling on the web and at sf cons
> (t-shirts, coffee mugs, calendars, and the like) are to raise funds for the
> lemonade stand.
>
David,
I thought it was obvious that Greg's lemonade stand comments were
symbolic of our commitment to the project, no matter how long it takes
(as compared to certain people who jump ship at the first hint of a
setback), but I guess some people thought he was talking about an actual
lemonade stand. The "trinkets" being sold by Lunar Traders have always
been intended as a means of increasing visibility of the Artemis Project
name and concept, not as a primary source of funding for the actual
project. The billions of dollars the Artemis Project will need
(actually, just over one billion) will come from the dozens, and
eventually hundreds, of commercial companies that will be involved in
the Artemis Project, and will come from traditional product areas like
publications, computer software, video games, toys and other
merchandise, and just about any other market that has a potential tie-in
to the Artemis Project.
Cheers..... Randall Severy
Graham Nelson
<URL:mailto:sev...@cyberteams.com> wrote:
> ... The billions of dollars the Artemis Project will need
> (actually, just over one billion) will come from the dozens, and
> eventually hundreds, of commercial companies that will be involved in
> the Artemis Project,
It's interesting how this particular strand of wish-fulfilment
went away for so long, and is now back again in earnest.
Dozens, nay hundreds, of companies will flock to the project,
which will raise four times as much money as it needs, thus
making a whopping project while mounting a lunar mission for
less than 5% of the cost of Apollo even ignoring inflation
since 1969... come back, Ed Wright and his 40,000 astronauts
by Roton before 2004, or indeed Joe's fractal space station
by last September or thereabouts, all is forgiven.
Say what you like about this newsgroup -- all human life is
here.
--
Graham Nelson | gra...@gnelson.demon.co.uk | Oxford, United Kingdom
Randall Severy
> It's interesting how this particular strand of wish-fulfilment
> went away for so long, and is now back again in earnest.
>
The plans of the Artemis Project have never "went away", they have
been very active in the forums of the Artemis Project. The fact that
they haven't been discussed here very often doesn't have any correlation
with the level of activity in the project. And I wouldn't consider our
plans "wish-fulfillment", I would use that description for those people
waiting for handouts from the U.S. government or other people's efforts
to put us back on the moon. The Artemis Project is devoted to getting
back to the moon *through our own efforts*, so how can that be
considered "wish-fulfillment"?
>
> Dozens, nay hundreds, of companies will flock to the project,
>
Well, over a dozen commercial companies and over half a dozen
non-profit organizations are already involved in the Artemis Project
today, so that statement is already true. Given that we've accomplished
that much in less than five years I don't think it's a stretch to assume
more companies will be founded and more existing companies will get
involved in the project over the next decade or two.
>
> which will raise four times as much money as it needs...
>
Hmm, I don't recall saying that the Artemis Project will "raise
four times as much money as it needs". The revenues from the Artemis
Project Reference Mission are forecast to be almost four times the
expenses of that mission, but most of those revenues will take place
*after* the mission. Very little money will need to be "raised" before
the mission takes place because the vast majority of the mission will be
funded by revenues from existing businesses participating in the
project. A company that invests $1 billion in a new product line
doesn't "raise" that money, they re-invest revenues earned from existing
business. The Artemis Project is based on the same concept.
>
> ... while mounting a lunar mission for
> less than 5% of the cost of Apollo even ignoring inflation
> since 1969...
>
How much of the cost of Apollo was the technology and
infrastructure development and how much of the cost was the actual
operational cost of the moon flight itself? The Artemis Project is
based almost completely on using existing off-the-shelf technology,
*taking advantage of all of the money invested in Apollo and later
programs*. If you look at the operational expenses of a single Apollo
mission to the moon, even counting inflation since 1969, you'll most
likely find that it is a fairly small fraction of the overall cost of
the Apollo program.
Cheers...... Randall