Economist article: On the sixth day, post-modernism: A suburban school board declares that evolution is just another theory
Jason Spaceman
Denis Loubet
"Jason Spaceman" <jspa...@linuxquestions.net> wrote in message
news:b9401f8a.02100...@posting.google.com...
> http://www.economist.com/World/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1373046
Perhaps "Intelligent Design" class can address just how "intelligent" the
"designs" are.
If it can be shown the designs are stupid, maybe the fundies will fight to
have it removed again.
Denis Loubet
dlo...@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Al Klein
(Jason Spaceman) posted in alt.atheism:
>http://www.economist.com/World/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1373046
"will help to promote 'acceptance of diversity of opinion'โ. So are
we to also accept the diversity of opinion that 2 + 2 = whatever you
come up with?
"Nearly half of the respondents believed that the theory of evolution
had not yet been proved."
Okay, so we know that nearly half the respondents know nothing about
the scientific method.
"three-quarters liberally agreed that students should be presented
with 'all points of view' and 'make up their own minds'โ
But why only about evolution? Why not about math, biology, physics,
history? Why make kids feel bad by giving them anything less than
straight As?
Oh.
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
Zymurgist # 2
Richard Clayton
> "Jason Spaceman" <jspa...@linuxquestions.net> wrote in message
> news:b9401f8a.02100...@posting.google.com...
>
>>http://www.economist.com/World/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1373046
>
>
> Perhaps "Intelligent Design" class can address just how "intelligent" the
> "designs" are.
>
> If it can be shown the designs are stupid, maybe the fundies will fight to
> have it removed again.
You are laboring under the mistaken belief that the proponents of ID
have any intent of teaching it fairly.
--
The e-mail address above is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.
Hermester Barrington
exactly as they want it. Religion disguised as science is not going
away, clearly, so maybe biology instructors should truly embrace the
opportunity to show how fallacious their logic is, and how slight
their understanding of biology, geology and other sciences. For
example, instructors could set aside a class or two to answer the
questions such as "Why are koalas only in Australia?" and demonstrate
how science answers the question, and then give examples of what
creationists think on this matter. I'm not a science instructor, so I
don't know if anyone has tried this, but it might offer an opportunity
to teach critical thinking as well as biology.
Hermester Barrington
"I am moved by strange sympathies; I say continually ้ธ will be a
naturalist'."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<8gorpu0ga0obdb0mn...@Pern.rk>...
lazarus
Barrington) wrote:
>Perhaps we should give the creationists what they want, but not
>exactly as they want it. Religion disguised as science is not going
>away, clearly, so maybe biology instructors should truly embrace the
>opportunity to show how fallacious their logic is, and how slight
>their understanding of biology, geology and other sciences. For
>example, instructors could set aside a class or two to answer the
>questions such as "Why are koalas only in Australia?" and demonstrate
>how science answers the question, and then give examples of what
>creationists think on this matter. I'm not a science instructor, so I
>don't know if anyone has tried this, but it might offer an opportunity
>to teach critical thinking as well as biology.
Personally, I have no problem teaching creationism. It'll take a few
seconds a year.
Spend all the time necessary on evolution, then conclude with the
comment, "Some people say God did it, however."
That's really all that needs to be said, right?
--
lazarus
"Therefore, my Harry, Be it thy course to busy giddy minds with
foreign quarrels; that action, hence borne out, may waste the memory
of the former days." -- King Henry IV, Part ii Act
4, Scene 5
Matt Giwer
> "Jason Spaceman" <jspa...@linuxquestions.net> wrote in message
> news:b9401f8a.02100...@posting.google.com...
>
>>http://www.economist.com/World/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1373046
>
>
> Perhaps "Intelligent Design" class can address just how "intelligent" the
> "designs" are.
>
> If it can be shown the designs are stupid, maybe the fundies will fight to
> have it removed again.
About a year ago lewrockwell.com ran an article on intelligent design
which was not damning and the following article was on the prevalence of
back problems. Even if major contributors are creationists there are
ways to deal with it without losing their financial support.
--
Because the US sets the standards for trends in much
of the world, the "war on terrorism" will set the
standards for the world. That it is a carbon copy
of Israeli oppression does not help.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 1741
Matt Giwer
> Denis Loubet wrote:
>>"Jason Spaceman" <jspa...@linuxquestions.net> wrote in message
>>news:b9401f8a.02100...@posting.google.com...
>>>http://www.economist.com/World/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1373046
>>Perhaps "Intelligent Design" class can address just how "intelligent" the
>>"designs" are.
>>If it can be shown the designs are stupid, maybe the fundies will fight to
>>have it removed again.
> You are laboring under the mistaken belief that the proponents of ID
> have any intent of teaching it fairly.
They won't be teaching it, will they?
--
When a news program has to be produced regularly it
has to be produced whether or not there is news.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 1746
thamus
> http://www.economist.com/World/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1373046
>
So IDers actually have a theory to teach now? Or is it still just
"Evolution is wrong!... just because." ?
--
Thamus http://www.thamus.org/News/
Random headline:
New Group Hopes To Break Monopoly On Gravity Theory
http://www.thamus.org/News/science/IG_theory.html
Al Klein
>Perhaps we should give the creationists what they want, but not
>exactly as they want it. Religion disguised as science is not going
>away, clearly, so maybe biology instructors should truly embrace the
>opportunity to show how fallacious their logic is, and how slight
>their understanding of biology, geology and other sciences. For
>example, instructors could set aside a class or two to answer the
>questions such as "Why are koalas only in Australia?" and demonstrate
>how science answers the question, and then give examples of what
>creationists think on this matter.
I think the cretinist answer to that one is "goddidit". I think that
would be their answer to most questions of this type. And, sad to
say, a lot of seemingly intelligent high school students would
probably see it as a "better" answer than the real one.
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:59:15 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
>> http://www.economist.com/World/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1373046
>So IDers actually have a theory to teach now? Or is it still just
>"Evolution is wrong!... just because." ?
"It's wrong because it contradicts god's word"
Al Klein
<lazaru...@msn.com> posted in alt.atheism:
>Spend all the time necessary on evolution, then conclude with the
>comment, "Some people say God did it, however."
>That's really all that needs to be said, right?
I don't think "however" is needed. :)
Guest Pest
>
> "Jason Spaceman" <jspa...@linuxquestions.net> wrote in message
> news:b9401f8a.02100...@posting.google.com...
> > http://www.economist.com/World/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1373046
>
> Perhaps "Intelligent Design" class can address just how "intelligent" the
> "designs" are.
>
> If it can be shown the designs are stupid, maybe the fundies will fight to
> have it removed again.
>
such as examples of designs given here:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/4/part2.html
> Denis Loubet
> dlo...@io.com
> http://www.io.com/~dloubet
--
T o m
a.a#1253
lazarus
<ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 01:04:57 +0000 (UTC), lazarus
><lazaru...@msn.com> posted in alt.atheism:
>
>>Spend all the time necessary on evolution, then conclude with the
>>comment, "Some people say God did it, however."
>
>>That's really all that needs to be said, right?
>
>I don't think "however" is needed. :)
Saves even more time, thanks. :-D
Noelie S. Alito
Hell, yeah! You don't have to waste time studying for stupid
tests and can spend more of it on the important things (hanging
out, ducking bullies, bullying people, mallratting, and reflecting
on why you have the stupidest, geekiest parents in the universe).
Don't expect the majority of the HS student population to support
your efforts to introduce them to the profoundly unimportant
complexities of the world (via HS teachers) when all they want
to think about is immediate sanity and survival.
Noelie
--
Those who refuse to do the math are condemned to talk nonsense.
Those who only do the math are condemned to talk nonsense.
Some of the rest of us are condemned to talk nonsense, too.
Al Klein
<noe...@deadspam.com> posted in alt.atheism:
>Hell, yeah! You don't have to waste time studying for stupid
>tests and can spend more of it on the important things (hanging
>out, ducking bullies, bullying people, mallratting, and reflecting
>on why you have the stupidest, geekiest parents in the universe).
And why you just received a rejection notice from both Dummy
University and The College of Last Resort.
>Don't expect the majority of the HS student population to support
>your efforts to introduce them to the profoundly unimportant
>complexities of the world (via HS teachers) when all they want
>to think about is immediate sanity and survival.
I can teach evolution in 30 minutes to a class of average high school
students (even adding Common Descent through Natural Selection). And
most of them would ace a fair test. Then they could take Grass
Sitting for the remainder of the term. (Evolution is simple and
natural selection is a tautology.)
OldguyTeck
"lazarus" <lazaru...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:23ispus1eafast4hr...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:39:42 +0000 (UTC), herm...@iwon.com (Hermester
> Barrington) wrote:
>
> >Perhaps we should give the creationists what they want, but not
> >exactly as they want it. Religion disguised as science is not going
> >away, clearly, so maybe biology instructors should truly embrace the
> >opportunity to show how fallacious their logic is, and how slight
> >their understanding of biology, geology and other sciences. For
> >example, instructors could set aside a class or two to answer the
> >questions such as "Why are koalas only in Australia?" and demonstrate
> >how science answers the question, and then give examples of what
> >creationists think on this matter. I'm not a science instructor, so I
> >don't know if anyone has tried this, but it might offer an opportunity
> >to teach critical thinking as well as biology.
>
> Personally, I have no problem teaching creationism. It'll take a few
> seconds a year.
>
> Spend all the time necessary on evolution, then conclude with the
> comment, "Some people say God did it, however."
>
> That's really all that needs to be said, right?
You don't seem to have a clue !
Ed......................(Oldguyteck)
lazarus
<ec...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
>"lazarus" <lazaru...@msn.com> wrote in message
>news:23ispus1eafast4hr...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:39:42 +0000 (UTC), herm...@iwon.com (Hermester
>> Barrington) wrote:
>>
>> >Perhaps we should give the creationists what they want, but not
>> >exactly as they want it. Religion disguised as science is not going
>> >away, clearly, so maybe biology instructors should truly embrace the
>> >opportunity to show how fallacious their logic is, and how slight
>> >their understanding of biology, geology and other sciences. For
>> >example, instructors could set aside a class or two to answer the
>> >questions such as "Why are koalas only in Australia?" and demonstrate
>> >how science answers the question, and then give examples of what
>> >creationists think on this matter. I'm not a science instructor, so I
>> >don't know if anyone has tried this, but it might offer an opportunity
>> >to teach critical thinking as well as biology.
>>
>> Personally, I have no problem teaching creationism. It'll take a few
>> seconds a year.
>>
>> Spend all the time necessary on evolution, then conclude with the
>> comment, "Some people say God did it, however."
>>
>> That's really all that needs to be said, right?
>
>You don't seem to have a clue !
>
Well, that was nicely meaningless. Care to expand on this? Or do you
prefer the odd flame to actual debate and discussion?
-
lazarus
"Therefore, my Harry, Be it thy course to busy giddy minds with
foreign quarrels; that action, hence borne out, may waste the memory
of the former days." -- King Henry IV, Part ii Act
4, Scene 5
"Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor
in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But,
after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy
and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it
is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they
are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, Hitler's #2 man, before being sentenced to death at the Nuremberg trials.
Noelie S. Alito
> On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:49:50 +0000 (UTC), "Noelie S. Alito"
> <noe...@deadspam.com> posted in alt.atheism:
>
> >Hell, yeah! You don't have to waste time studying for stupid
> >tests and can spend more of it on the important things (hanging
> >out, ducking bullies, bullying people, mallratting, and reflecting
> >on why you have the stupidest, geekiest parents in the universe).
>
> And why you just received a rejection notice from both Dummy
> University and The College of Last Resort.
Yes, but you're a Premier Candidate for Patriot University. ;-)
Grade inflation plus test-taking courses plus the limited coverage
of standardized tests go a long way towards getting people with
idiomatic knowlege into college, if they go at all. [Oddly, a few
years ago when I was tutoring adults for basic literacy and
high school equivalency exams, I discovered that the HS equiv
exams were markedly *tougher* than the standardized tests
given to high school students--those going after Equivalency
had a higher hurdle to clear.]
> >Don't expect the majority of the HS student population to support
> >your efforts to introduce them to the profoundly unimportant
> >complexities of the world (via HS teachers) when all they want
> >to think about is immediate sanity and survival.
>
> I can teach evolution in 30 minutes to a class of average high school
> students (even adding Common Descent through Natural Selection). And
> most of them would ace a fair test. Then they could take Grass
> Sitting for the remainder of the term. (Evolution is simple and
> natural selection is a tautology.)
Do you think you're representative of HS teachers? I suspect
that *most* [US] high school biology teachers don't have much
more than an idiomatic knowlege of bio evo, and would have
trouble battling many of the anti-evo arguments we see pop up
here fairly regularly on talk.origins.
Noelie
--
"The government is divided into three branches...."
--Mr. McAllister, _Election_
Chris Krolczyk
> "lazarus" <lazaru...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:23ispus1eafast4hr...@4ax.com...
> > Personally, I have no problem teaching creationism. It'll take a few
> > seconds a year.
> > Spend all the time necessary on evolution, then conclude with the
> > comment, "Some people say God did it, however."
> > That's really all that needs to be said, right?
> You don't seem to have a clue !
How so? It seems like an adequate summation of the vast majority of
creationist arguments to me...
-Chris Krolczyk
Al Klein
(Chris Krolczyk) posted in alt.atheism:
After all, it's not as if there were any actual objective evidence of
creation.
stoney
<lazaru...@msn.com>, Message ID:
<q6b0qukvauulb3uep...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Non sequitors and red herrings are the height of Ed Clone's
capabilities.
--
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
lazarus
wrote:
So I've heard. I'm bored, though, and was curious to see if he
actually had anything.
Whazzup
> > seconds a year.
> >
> > Spend all the time necessary on evolution, then conclude with the
> > comment, "Some people say God did it, however."
> >
> > That's really all that needs to be said, right?
>
> You don't seem to have a clue !
There IS no clue, padre!
Mark Plus
> Perhaps we should give the creationists what they want, but not
> exactly as they want it. Religion disguised as science is not going
> away, clearly, so maybe biology instructors should truly embrace the
> opportunity to show how fallacious their logic is, and how slight
> their understanding of biology, geology and other sciences. For
> example, instructors could set aside a class or two to answer the
> questions such as "Why are koalas only in Australia?" and demonstrate
> how science answers the question, and then give examples of what
> creationists think on this matter. I'm not a science instructor, so I
> don't know if anyone has tried this, but it might offer an opportunity
> to teach critical thinking as well as biology.
>
You could teach a whole course beating up on the idea of a worldwide
biblical flood. What year did the flood happen? Where did the water
come from? Where did it go? What was the salinity of the water, and
how did the aquatic animals survive in water with salinity they
weren't adapted to? How did coral reefs survive with several miles of
water suddenly piled on top of them?
There are so many things wrong with the biblical flood story that
you'd have to be either really ignorant or perversely blind to
physical reality to believe in it.
Hermester Barrington
This sort of analysis of the questions their hypotheses pose is
exactly what I had in mind. Is there a book or a website that
systematically answers their claims?
All the best,
Hermester Barrington
http://www.geocities.com/nodotus/hbbio.html
"Too tall to live, too weird to die!"
Official motto of Chicken Boy
June
It's been discussed here at t.o. many times in the past. Try Google
groups and look for Ye Floode or Ye Flood or Noah's flood, etc. There is
a lot of information and links to other sites in those threads; you just
have to wade through the discussion.
The Talkorigins archive has several articles addressing problems with
the flood scenario. See
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-flood.html
Beyond that just use a search engine. You'll have to wade through a lot
of religious sites that profer apologetics in defense of the Noah's
flood, but there are more than a few of the debunking sorts of sites. A
few that I have saved are
http://www.health.adelaide.edu.au/Pharm/Musgrave/essays/hols1.htm
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/6flood.htm
http://www.geocities.com/buyu_2000/flood.html
HTH
--
My 2ยข B-}
June