Gestalt vs Cognitive restructuring

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one@hotmail./remove/com marvin

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Jun 9, 2003, 8:02:02 PM6/9/03
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Could someone explain the main differences?

I am looking for a marriage counselor, any idea what I should look out for
in each?


bigolehippie

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Jun 10, 2003, 9:33:55 AM6/10/03
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At a very primary level the Gestalts therapist would have you share
your feelings at the time and have you explore your feelings about
your feelings in the present -- the purpose of which is to find the
position you need for yourself and then explore your self generated
options yourself. The cognitive therapist is going to focus on the
thoughts associated with or generating the feelings and discuss them
logically -- as your thoughts change your feelings will move to be
more consistent with your thinking/perception. Very different
approaches -- for problem solving or time sensitive issues I would
suggest cognitive therapy. boh

DaKitty

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Jun 16, 2003, 3:49:00 AM6/16/03
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What happens when your feelings consistently don't follow your thoughts and
actions resulting from those thoughts?

"bigolehippie" <PatrickM...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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bigolehippie

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Jun 16, 2003, 10:06:28 AM6/16/03
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The key is to find the thread -- with exception of organic psychosis
(or equivalent poison/drug abuse, etc) there is no thought without a
feeling and no feeling without a thought.
Test it : I feel angry (happy/sad/etc) because: x.
: I think (a value/reaction/etc) and it makes me feel: y.
Obviously extremely oversimplified but there it is: The dichotomy of
thought and emotion is an artificial Aristotlean construct for gaining
understanding -- not a reality. boh

DaKitty

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Jun 18, 2003, 7:20:00 AM6/18/03
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would that mean that if you're experiencing discord between thoughts and
feelings, you're suppressing something? Or just not understanding your own
feelings well? I can separate thoughts from feelings, but on many occasion I
can't identify the feelings associated with certain thoughts, where I would
say I feel nothing, or feel calm. Other times, I can't always, to put it
simply "think away" negative feelings.
It's all within normal ranges, nothing leading towards very destructive
behavior, but it's puzzling, and frustrating at times.

"bigolehippie" <PatrickM...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

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bigolehippie

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Jun 18, 2003, 10:13:35 AM6/18/03
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OK, several issues. First, feelings can be a state -- such as calm.
Sometimes I am unsure of my feelings, not fully "in touch" on a
thought and it requires effort. The real issue you broach is the
major issue -- inner conflict. What if my desires are contrary to
some value? Example: I like women's breasts (thought) and stare at
them (enjoy); I value respect (thought) for every human, it is
disrespectful to stare (feeling). Which thought/feeling should be
more influential? While this example is grossly oversimplified given
how complex human life and relations are, breaking the complex out
helps see the alignments of thoughts and feelings -- and the areas of
dischord. boh

PS, thank the gawds for peripheral vision :)


On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:20:00 -0700, "DaKitty"

DaKitty

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Jun 18, 2003, 4:07:59 PM6/18/03
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I think I understand what you're saying... For example:

When it comes to: "I have to do what I have to do to survive (get a
paycheck), but I'm not in love with what I do for living. And for years and
years I tried to find something likeable about it, and just end up liking it
less and less. To a point I find it hard to concentrate because of a number
of festering resentments. Because I'm trying to justify it to myself with,
"so many others are doing it, now get your act together and do it, you're
making a great living, and you're capable of doing what you're doing, and
it's a very sensible career choice, fair amount of security." Yea, I'm
capable and it's safe, but I don't like it, to a point that the festering
resentment is making it not be safe, by allowing it to take over and not pay
attention to what I'm doing.
Having a career that doesn't really fit my personality, but telling myself
that I should stick with it because it's very sensible. Finding it very
hard to stay motivated just for the sake of a great paycheck, after about 15
years in the field.

Fortunately, recently I made a change that will hopefully help with that,
and not be financially destructive.

Would what I described above sort of fit with what you're talking about, in
your opinion?

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DaKitty

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Jun 19, 2003, 3:52:28 PM6/19/03
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Thanks for confirming :)

"bigolehippie" <PatrickM...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

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> Yep, boh

bigolehippie

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Jun 21, 2003, 2:12:53 PM6/21/03
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DK
There are two major responses to that question (what happens
when thoughts and feelings do not coincide). The first is that in the
active process of "being in the world" people develop a sense of
themselves in relation to others and life in general but they also
(ideally) continue to grow. Discrepancies can occur benignly such as
seeing "girls" as friends to discovering love and commitment. Previous
"just playing " behaviors/attitudes may now be in conflict with
wanting "more -- to be closer". This change, evolution or adaptation
is actually ongoing and associated with living across time. The
change can be more of a conflict as in "raised racist" one now
cognitively rejects it but still in shocked to have racist "feelings".
These types of experiences can be a powerful contribution to the
expansion of the individual's personality.
Another form of the split between emotions and cognition is a
feature of Bipolar Disorder. Oversimplistically, the mood becomes
detached from cognition in that it stimulates either typical
depressive features or manic depressive features. The person is sad
(or any affect) regardless of circumstances with the symptoms. As an
example: in mania with anger these persons will often first look for
the fight that goes with the feeling of anger/aggression and then
blame ( try to make sense of the mood generated behavior) someone or
something.
The third of the two responses is in psychotic splits from
reality. Splits from people, feelings and rational behavior are
expected symptoms of disorders such as schizophrenia.
boh


On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:49:00 -0700, "DaKitty"
<Imgon...@something.net> wrote:

DaKitty

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Jun 21, 2003, 5:56:10 PM6/21/03
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Thank you for that description!

Mine is somewhat simplistic, and at times just a frustration in managing my
life more effectively.
A little example would be, A chore needs doing, and I just can't get in the
right mood to do it now, so I procrastinate some, or do it begrudgingly. Now
if I could only figure how to sweet-talk myself into being in the mood to do
something when I rationally decide it needs to be done.
With some things, mo matter what little or carrot I dangle in front of me to
motivate myself to do certain things, I tend to keep rebelling against it.
Lately, my conflict is about getting more exercise, I want to, and I need
to, but I keep managing to get lazy and not do it. I keep staring in the
mirror and asking, what's the holdup (figuratively), and just get a silly,
"I dunno, I don't feel like it, leave me alone answer".
Twice a month that I do motivate myself to do it, I'm very glad I did.
At the moment I'm at a little bit of a loss as to how to motivate myself.
Sue, I can clamp down and force myself to do it, but I try to not do that,
because I just end up festering in resentment that I wasn't more attentive
to my other needs, and more things get out of whack.

I'm hoping you have a droplet of wisdom here that will give me more food for
thought. :)

Thanks!

"bigolehippie" <PatrickM...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

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ggh

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Jul 5, 2003, 1:32:55 PM7/5/03
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- al owens
"DaKitty" <Imgon...@something.net> wrote in message news:<Mv4Ja.71411$Pc5.61551@fed1read01>...
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