Proper way to melt nylon
boardjunkie
need to do is liquify a relatively small amount to dip wood drumstick
tips in to keep them from chipping. I figure weed eater line is a cheap
source for the nylon. Is this something I'd want to attempt to do over
a gas stove in a junk pan? I'm not sure if it will bubble and get
messy......molten nylon is not my idea of snappy attire. So.....any
advise?
Wouter van Marle
Melting nylon, or any plastic material, should be done carefully - as in
heat controlled. Most plastics decompose quickly when melted much above
their melting point - and that you don't want.
To dip drumstick tips in... well sounds like you're thinking of a pool.
Sounds like a bitch to get that much molten to me, better try from
solution. And don't worry polymers do not bubble. They can not
evaporate, so no bubbles. Except when you start decomposing them, then
you may get other effects.
Anyway, for your problem, I'd say go from solution. Make a concentrated
solution of nylon in a good solvent like formic acid, dip the sticks in,
and let the solvent evaporate off. That will leave you a nice thin film
- repeat if necessary. No need to heat your solution; just be really
careful, formic acid is rather aggressive, inflammable, etc. Good
ventilation, no sparks, gloves, goggles, and the rest recommended.
Wouter.
boardjunkie
> solution of nylon in a good solvent like formic acid, dip the sticks in,
> and let the solvent evaporate off. That will leave you a nice thin film
> - repeat if necessary. No need to heat your solution; just be really
> careful, formic acid is rather aggressive, inflammable, etc. Good
> ventilation, no sparks, gloves, goggles, and the rest recommended.
>
> Wouter.
OK, great info. Now, where can one obtain the formic acid and does it
matter how much you use in dissolving the nylon?
Ernie
"boardjunkie" <board...@techie.com> wrote in message
news:1152028713.0...@a14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think that there are much easier solutions than trying to dissolve a nylon
in formic acid.
Consider using something that is available at your local hardware store, or
you can order on-line.
http://www.cornerhardware.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6741_6850_7163
http://bearep.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1899
are two of the many that came up on Google for "dip coating handle".
Ernie
boardjunkie
> I think that there are much easier solutions than trying to dissolve a nylon
> in formic acid.
>
> Consider using something that is available at your local hardware store, or
> you can order on-line.
>
> http://www.cornerhardware.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6741_6850_7163
>
> http://bearep.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1899
>
> are two of the many that came up on Google for "dip coating handle".
>
>
> Ernie
Good idea, but you're talking about "tool dip" right? That's more of a
vinyl type stuff if we're talking the same thing. Much too soft for the
application.
Ernie
You want to coat the "business end" of the drumstick; I agree "tool dip" is
likely to be too soft. How about "polyurethane gym floor" varnish?
There are several possible problems with nylon:
If you try to melt it on a gas stove, you will most likely scorch it.
The nylon melt may not stick to wood, and even if it does, it will be a
challenge to get a coating of desired thickness.
There would be definite advantages to handling the nylon in solution, but
you have to have access to formic acid which is corrosive (Do not handle
without gloves and goggles!). Making a 5% solution (my guess) may take
couple of days of constant stirring or shaking. I do not think that
evaporating formic acid will be good enough. It may take a very long time
for the formic acid to evaporate, and you should not be doing this in your
kitchen! Dipping the coated drumsticks in water will extract the formic
acid, but formic acid, or water may swell the wood, giving rise to more
problems.
Some softer nylons are soluble in methanol, but fishing line is not likely
to be soluble.
You can also consider an epoxy, but most epoxies probably are not tough
enough for impact applications.
Does anyone make a plastic drumstick? Lots of people sell plastic rods,
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=8765&product%5Fid=11275.
Acetals can be machined quite easily; I would start with DELRIN 150.
Good luck,
Ernie
boardjunkie
ebay seller at a really great price, but they're made of hickory, which
tears and splits where the stick hits the rim of my snare drum. Not
that big a deal, I can cope with that. The biggest problem is that my
(very heavy) ride cymbal actually causes the tip of the stick to chip
and there may be up to half the tip missing from this. After that, the
stick is useless. There are nylon tip sticks available, but I don't
care for them as the stick is usually quite a bit thinner where the
nylon bead is attached, causing them to be prone to breakage at that
point. I figured that a coating of nylon at the tip would buy me more
time with them since nylon is pretty indestructable in this
application.
> You can also consider an epoxy, but most epoxies probably are not tough
> enough for impact applications.
I've used JB weld to fill in the chips at the tips and (so far) it
seems to hold up. I may try dipping some new ones in this gunk and see
what happens.
> Does anyone make a plastic drumstick? Lots of people sell plastic rods,
There are similar products out there, but I don't care for them. Not
enough vibration absorbtion so they're fatigueing to use.
>
> Acetals can be machined quite easily; I would start with DELRIN 150.
How about a fiberglas resin without the "tiger hair"? Or is that more
or less just an epoxy?
> Good luck,
>
> Ernie
Wouter van Marle
> Well here's the situation. I've been getting sticks in bulk from an
> ebay seller at a really great price, but they're made of hickory, which
> tears and splits where the stick hits the rim of my snare drum. Not
> that big a deal, I can cope with that. The biggest problem is that my
> (very heavy) ride cymbal actually causes the tip of the stick to chip
> and there may be up to half the tip missing from this. After that, the
> stick is useless. There are nylon tip sticks available, but I don't
> care for them as the stick is usually quite a bit thinner where the
> nylon bead is attached, causing them to be prone to breakage at that
> point. I figured that a coating of nylon at the tip would buy me more
> time with them since nylon is pretty indestructable in this
> application.
Solid nylon is a different animal than nylon coated wood.
Unless you make the nylon so thick (2-3 mm or so) that it by itself can
take the impact of your drumming - and I know from my time in a pop
centre that drummers can hit really hard - the coating will do little to
stop the wood from splitting. It at most will keep the two halves
together; but I don't think that will be so great when drumming. I'm
sure this is why the nylon-tip sticks you mention are so much thinner
before the tip: to make place for the nylon.
If your coating is thin, then the nylon will happily bend and transfer
the impact to the wood beneath. If it's not very thin, it may spread the
impact a bit, but it will still be the wood that has to absorb the
energy.
Solid plastic I think is a more suitable solution.
Or just keep a few spares at hand while drumming, when you break one put
it aside and take a new one. That's what I've seen many drummers do
during the concerts; drum sticks now and then break after all.
Wouter.
Frank
I'd try the epoxy route. Look at the various 2 part mixes that come
from 2 syringes.
They make various grades and some are stiffer than others. Gel times
vary but all are fully cured in a day. Unreinforced polyester resins
are not as tough as epoxy or nylon.
Melting nylon is tough but you might try it on a hot iron which will
minimize scorching as would happen on a stove. It will be difficult to
coat and the nylon will want to string out and draw fibers. Try
coating stick in puddle of molten nylon, pull away somewhat, and cut
melt with cold scissors. Gently flaming the melt on the sticks should
smooth it out.
Frank
Billy Hiebert
or two ago. It showed how to mix up a batch of nylon and pull it into a
long strand. Might work for the drumstick application. If anyone is
interested I'll dig it out. It could be on the magazine's site.
--
Billy Hiebert
HIEBERT SCULPTURE WORKS
Small Part Injection Molding
http://www.hieberts.com
john.s...@aspenresearch.com
Billy Hiebert wrote:
> There was an interesting article in Popular Science Mag. about a month
> or two ago. It showed how to mix up a batch of nylon and pull it into a
> long strand. Might work for the drumstick application. If anyone is
> interested I'll dig it out. It could be on the magazine's site.
It's popularly called the nylon rope trick. You can google for it and
find plenty of information.
It's probably a bad option, as the nylon will be too soft for heavy
duty drumming. After all, the nylon is soft enough to coil up as a
thick rope.
John
Aspen Research, - www.aspenresearch.com
"Turning Questions into Answers"
Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my
employer.
Frank
john.s...@aspenresearch.com wrote:
> Billy Hiebert wrote:
> > There was an interesting article in Popular Science Mag. about a month
> > or two ago. It showed how to mix up a batch of nylon and pull it into a
> > long strand. Might work for the drumstick application. If anyone is
> > interested I'll dig it out. It could be on the magazine's site.
>
> It's popularly called the nylon rope trick. You can google for it and
> find plenty of information.
>
> It's probably a bad option, as the nylon will be too soft for heavy
> duty drumming. After all, the nylon is soft enough to coil up as a
> thick rope.
>
in a water layer with adipoyl chloride in an organic, aprotic solvent.
You can pull the rope from the center continuously. Totally unsuitable
for coating purposes. OTOH if you dip something into molten nylon and
pull it out you will get fibers from the melt. Filament winding the
stick with nylon sewing thread and melting by flaming might also work.
I think OP has enough suggestions to go try and report back to us.
Frank
Joseki
Wouter van Marle wrote:
> Solid nylon is a different animal than nylon coated wood.
Most nylons will not work the way you are imagining. One, nylon and
oxygen are not friends. It will seriously discolor and eventually
loose strength if melted in the air. Being a semi-crystalline polymer
nylon rather aburptly looses viscosity as it melts. If you are
picturing a syrupy material I think you might be surprised.
I actually like the formic acid idea, though you would need to apply it
several times. All major chemical companies sell formic. You would
only need technical grade. Dip in solition (maybe a 5% weight into
volume) then hit it with a hair dryer/heat gun and wash with water.
Dry and repeat over and over.
Gloves and eye sheilds. Find out about local laws for disposing of
your waste.
two...@gm.kewaunee.k12.wi.us
I use nylon tip jazz sticks, which may be the equivalent to 9A or 11a...they are really thin! But I have found a little trick to prevent those super slim sticks from breaking; I simply wrap duct tape around the necks of the sticks just below the nylon tip. What is cool about this is, it prevents the stick from breaking so easily, and, it softens the sound of the crash, so it is not so harsh! But, if you want that harsh crash, you adapt to crashing with the lower (thicker )end of the stick.
As for the nylon tip idea, have you come up with the best way to coat the tips. I have some hornet sticks coming on the way, and they don't carry nylon tips. I want them coated. Thought about taking old broken nylon tips, melting them down, and twirling tips into the melted nylon, but in light of these posts, it sounds like that is impossible! Any luck with other ideas?
