Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Comprehension of the boiling to evaporation dichotomy requires an intimate understanding of hydrogen bonding in water
39 views
Skip to first unread message
James McGinn
Dec 12, 2018, 1:06:10 PM12/12/18
to
On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 11:44:33 PM UTC-8, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >> the transition from lots of liquid droplets (hot or cold steam) into
> >> single molecules of water, which is invisable gas.
> >
> > It's called "boiling."
>
> Not only. Water (like other substances) evoporates at temperatures much
> lower than its boiling point.
>
> This is why you sweat: the sweat (basically warm salty water) carries heat
> from inside the body to the surface of the skin and evoporates there.
You are correct up to here. Beyond this point, however, you explanation breaks down in that your model fails to explain the broad range of behaviors (especially sublimation) associated with H2O polarity.
> Evaporation, the ability to leave the ensemble of water molecules held
> together by hydrogen bond,
It is an ensemble that is leaving, not just one molecule. And since liquid water has a huge heat capacity a lot of heat is carried away in the nanodroplet that leaves.
> requires greater inner energy U for each water
> molecule in the sweat; this energy is taken from other water molecules, so
> that the temperature of the remaining sweat is reduced – it is cooled [first
> law of thermodynamics: dU = δQ + δW = c dT + δW; cₚ(H₂O) = 4184 J/(kg K)].
> Since heat always flows from the hotter to the colder substance [a
> consequence of the second law of thermodynamics: dS ≥ 0], this cools the
> body. Then the evaporated molecules diffuse into the surrounding air, so
> that this heat is finally transported away from the body.
Most importantly--and this is something only an expert in water will understand--the ensemble that leaves still maintains hydrogen bonds with other H2O molecules in the ensemble. And since H bonds LOWER THE POLARITY OF THE MOLECULES THAT PARTICIPATE IN THE BONDS the force necessary for the nanodrolet ensemble to break away is considerably less per molecule than it would be if we were trying to remove these molecules one at a time (boiling). Only a person (myself) who is an expert in understanding the VARIABILITY of the polarity of the H2O molecule and the fact that H bonds are the mechanism thereof is there the slightest chance of being able to explain the broad range of observed behaviors (ie. sublimation) associated with evaporation. Morons (ie. Arindam and Thomas pointy head) who stubbornly insist on standard assumptions and who are ignorant of the distinctness of H2O polarity and h bonding are, well, just wasting everybody's time with their ignorant assertions. This is a subject that requires an expert (myself) who has an intimate understanding of the highly variable nature of H2O polarity and h bonding.
> I
> You can also observe this if you have a shower or a bath or go swimming and
> do not dry your body quickly afterwards. As the water on your skin
> evaporates, you will feel colder because you *actually* become colder.
Yes, evaporation cools. (Everybody knows this.) But this does not substantiate your simplistic model that completely breaks down when trying to explain evaporation at lower temperatures. Your model fails to explain sublimation. My model does not fail.
> > Guess what temperature water boils at sea level?
> 100 °C, because that is how the Celsius scale is defined.
Meaningless.
Watch and study all of these videos if you want to have a chance of understanding the highly counterintuitive nature of h bonds between H2O molecules:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfNuWJDJvRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDv2RoUrHTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQSubWJeNg
James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
> >> the transition from lots of liquid droplets (hot or cold steam) into
> >> single molecules of water, which is invisable gas.
> >
> > It's called "boiling."
>
> Not only. Water (like other substances) evoporates at temperatures much
> lower than its boiling point.
>
> This is why you sweat: the sweat (basically warm salty water) carries heat
> from inside the body to the surface of the skin and evoporates there.
You are correct up to here. Beyond this point, however, you explanation breaks down in that your model fails to explain the broad range of behaviors (especially sublimation) associated with H2O polarity.
> Evaporation, the ability to leave the ensemble of water molecules held
> together by hydrogen bond,
It is an ensemble that is leaving, not just one molecule. And since liquid water has a huge heat capacity a lot of heat is carried away in the nanodroplet that leaves.
> requires greater inner energy U for each water
> molecule in the sweat; this energy is taken from other water molecules, so
> that the temperature of the remaining sweat is reduced – it is cooled [first
> law of thermodynamics: dU = δQ + δW = c dT + δW; cₚ(H₂O) = 4184 J/(kg K)].
> Since heat always flows from the hotter to the colder substance [a
> consequence of the second law of thermodynamics: dS ≥ 0], this cools the
> body. Then the evaporated molecules diffuse into the surrounding air, so
> that this heat is finally transported away from the body.
Most importantly--and this is something only an expert in water will understand--the ensemble that leaves still maintains hydrogen bonds with other H2O molecules in the ensemble. And since H bonds LOWER THE POLARITY OF THE MOLECULES THAT PARTICIPATE IN THE BONDS the force necessary for the nanodrolet ensemble to break away is considerably less per molecule than it would be if we were trying to remove these molecules one at a time (boiling). Only a person (myself) who is an expert in understanding the VARIABILITY of the polarity of the H2O molecule and the fact that H bonds are the mechanism thereof is there the slightest chance of being able to explain the broad range of observed behaviors (ie. sublimation) associated with evaporation. Morons (ie. Arindam and Thomas pointy head) who stubbornly insist on standard assumptions and who are ignorant of the distinctness of H2O polarity and h bonding are, well, just wasting everybody's time with their ignorant assertions. This is a subject that requires an expert (myself) who has an intimate understanding of the highly variable nature of H2O polarity and h bonding.
> I
> You can also observe this if you have a shower or a bath or go swimming and
> do not dry your body quickly afterwards. As the water on your skin
> evaporates, you will feel colder because you *actually* become colder.
Yes, evaporation cools. (Everybody knows this.) But this does not substantiate your simplistic model that completely breaks down when trying to explain evaporation at lower temperatures. Your model fails to explain sublimation. My model does not fail.
> > Guess what temperature water boils at sea level?
> 100 °C, because that is how the Celsius scale is defined.
Meaningless.
Watch and study all of these videos if you want to have a chance of understanding the highly counterintuitive nature of h bonds between H2O molecules:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfNuWJDJvRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDv2RoUrHTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQSubWJeNg
James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
James McGinn
Dec 14, 2018, 4:45:13 PM12/14/18
to
Both of you bonehead are evading this realization.
Fucking worthless assholes.
Arindam Banerjee
Dec 14, 2018, 6:13:01 PM12/14/18
to
Water is far more adhesive than cohesive, so water bonds to non water readily. Since water molecule to water molecule bonding is lesser than water molecule to non water molecule bonding, a water molecule separates from other water molecules relatively easily and of course on an individual basis, following kinetic interactions.
One has to see the meniscus of water that is concave, note capillary action, to know that water is adhesive unlike say mercury which is cohesive.
Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee
One has to see the meniscus of water that is concave, note capillary action, to know that water is adhesive unlike say mercury which is cohesive.
Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee
James McGinn
Dec 14, 2018, 7:28:29 PM12/14/18
to
Meaningless babble. You are ignorant of water. Your model breajs down upon the slightest scrutiny.
All liquids that for h bonds have a difference between their boiling temperature and their evaporation temperatures. But it is most dramatic in h20 (it has to do with h2o havibg more hydrogen per weight than the others). My theory predicts/explains why it is. More dramatic for h2o. Your theory fails in that it predicts the same amount of drama for all in that your stupid mechanism is external.
All liquids that for h bonds have a difference between their boiling temperature and their evaporation temperatures. But it is most dramatic in h20 (it has to do with h2o havibg more hydrogen per weight than the others). My theory predicts/explains why it is. More dramatic for h2o. Your theory fails in that it predicts the same amount of drama for all in that your stupid mechanism is external.
Arindam Banerjee
Dec 14, 2018, 7:51:24 PM12/14/18
to
McGinn, a poor Scottish laird maybe, probably never did a stroke of real work in his life. Definitely he knows less about water than any scullerymaid, laundry maid, kitchen help, gardener, farmer, boiler operator, etc. He can merely babble about totally irrelevant issues like Hydrogen bonding and ignore all the relevant facts. Sad. Not every pseudoscientific babble like SR, GR and QM gets universally accepted.
The bad examples of Einsteinians cast a long shadow.
Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee.
The bad examples of Einsteinians cast a long shadow.
Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee.
Arindam Banerjee
Dec 14, 2018, 8:59:06 PM12/14/18
to
Study the phase diagram of wate relating to sublimation.
http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cms/imagedb/albums/userpics/sublimation1.jpg
As per phase diagram, at a certain low pressure near 0degC there is sublimation.
Fair enough, this is what the phase diagram says.
And the proof comes from flying high over Russia.
Flying from China to France, our windows got iced.
This is called deposition. Very low pressure outside, cold temperature, the vapour turns to ice.
Then as the ice comes down to higher pressure and temperature, it becomes vapour which is sublimation.
The vapour rises up to form ice by deposition.
Then comes down to become vapour by sublimation.
Cyclic process, up above.
As you come down into the cloud you get into the cloud which is liquid.
The phase diagram of water, your favourite topic, makes it all so clear.
James McGinn
Dec 14, 2018, 9:54:08 PM12/14/18
to
You are a convoluted whackjob.
pnal...@gmail.com
Dec 14, 2018, 10:03:15 PM12/14/18
to
On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 6:54:08 PM UTC-8, James McGinn wrote:
> You are a convoluted whackjob.
... says the guy with zero evidence for any of his theories. ZERO!
> You are a convoluted whackjob.
However... Banjo-boy nevertheless IS a whackjob... just like YOU!
Arindam Banerjee
Dec 15, 2018, 1:13:23 AM12/15/18
to
Anal pnal, McGinn is a trier for a pointless cause and a fighter albeit for mothing. You are just a brainwashed imbecile.
pnal...@gmail.com
Dec 15, 2018, 1:17:08 AM12/15/18
to
On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 10:13:23 PM UTC-8, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> Anal pnal, McGinn is a trier for a pointless cause and a fighter albeit for mothing. You are just a brainwashed imbecile.
Gee Whiz, I see you have spelling issues, too, just like McGinn...perhaps you are also championing a pointless cause...
> Anal pnal, McGinn is a trier for a pointless cause and a fighter albeit for mothing. You are just a brainwashed imbecile.
James McGinn
Dec 15, 2018, 2:17:19 AM12/15/18
to
As per phase diagram, at a certain low pressure near 0degC there is sublimation.
Fair enough, this is what the phase diagram says.
Stop babbling.
Fair enough, this is what the phase diagram says.
Im talking about 1 ATM
James McGinn
Dec 19, 2018, 3:04:02 PM12/19/18
to
James McGinn
Dec 19, 2018, 3:57:14 PM12/19/18
to
James McGinn
Dec 19, 2018, 3:59:47 PM12/19/18
to
James McGinn
Dec 21, 2018, 8:43:12 PM12/21/18
to
James McGinn
Dec 22, 2018, 1:24:48 AM12/22/18
to
JMcG:
As ive explained previously, hydrogen bonds (between h2o molecules) cause neutralization of about 25% of each others polarity.
And since each h2o molecule can form up to four bonds with four other h2o molecules. And they in fact do just that in liquid water.
An ensemble has low polarity. In contrast if you tried to seperate two lone h2o molecules it would require very high temperatures. Because you would be dealing with two high polarity h2o molecules.
It is an ensemble that is leaving.
And since liquid water has a huge heat capacity a lot of heat is carried away in the nanodroplet that leaves.
As ive explained previously, hydrogen bonds (between h2o molecules) cause neutralization of about 25% of each others polarity.
And since each h2o molecule can form up to four bonds with four other h2o molecules. And they in fact do just that in liquid water.
An ensemble has low polarity. In contrast if you tried to seperate two lone h2o molecules it would require very high temperatures. Because you would be dealing with two high polarity h2o molecules.
It is an ensemble that is leaving.
And since liquid water has a huge heat capacity a lot of heat is carried away in the nanodroplet that leaves.
James McGinn
Sep 18, 2019, 11:48:06 PM9/18/19
to
James McGinn
Feb 24, 2020, 11:05:35 AM2/24/20
to
0 new messages