Physicists caused wall street melt down...
Benj
I especially like the piece on the economic credit crisis where the
blame for the mess was laid firmly at the feet of physicists. The
story was that Wall Street hired a bunch of super-technical
mathematically inclined physicists to work out obscure formulations of
questionable "options" like credit default swaps that were so complex
and esoteric that nobody could figure out what they meant and thus
were peddled to unsuspecting banks.
Shame on all you guys. You just cost us all 700 billion! And it
ain't over yet.
Spaceman
What do you expect,
They were all told that basic addition is wrong.
They actually will tell you that 186,000 miles per second
plus 186,000 miles per second does not equal 372,000
miles per second.
So millions of dollars per second must have messed them up also.
:)
Salmon Egg
<f7ac2fac-299c-4363...@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Benj <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
It was not clear that physicists were to blame.
If I were to blame anything, it would be all levels of government for
pushing inflation. This is done by the banking system that is happy to
go along because it is an opportunity to make money {almost literally}
along with getting good profits. The politicians gain a quiescent
population happy to keep them in office.
The process is based upon banks' ability to create credit accounts and
debit accounts that cancel each other out. People using the credit are
able to bid up the price of housing and other things just as if they had
actually scrimped and saved real money.
The physicist then figure out how to money launder the debits by
inventing derivatives to make it look like the debits are not there.
Business booms, people move into houses they cannot afford and everyone
is happy and stupid. Things have worked out so well, that the
business-government alliance think that if a little credit makes things
work so well, more will be even better. The result is even more credit
inflation.
Finally, someone notices that there are debits out there that need to be
cancelled out with real money and the whole shebang collapses. We no
suffer the hangover after the binge. Thrifty and prudent people suffer
the most because whatever they had is taken by inflation.
Then to top it off, the proposed cure is more credit--alcohol to cure
the hangover.
Bill
--
Private Profit; Public Poop! Avoid collateral windfall!
gabydewilde
> In article
> <f7ac2fac-299c-4363-a06f-156b91895...@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
It is actually quite hilarious.
I always wondered when and how our machines planed to kill us for
reasons that are logical to us.
Now we know.
When starvation inc goes global the stock computers will have the time
of their lives.
Eventually we will all be slaves of some robotic warehouse.
Uncle Al
>
> Did you see 60 Minutes this sunday?
>
> I especially like the piece on the economic credit crisis where the
> blame for the mess was laid firmly at the feet of physicists.
And the LHC is the final brick in their indomitable wall of planetary
hegemony. Blame the soldiers for the battles of their generals.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
hanson
news:f7ac2fac-299c-4363...@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Well, if the Wallstreet gang wouldn't have trusted all
those relativistic Einstein Dingleberries who bull-
shitted them with their "bundles", "manifold returns"
and "derivatives" and if the down to earth old time
stock gamblers there would have followed their instincts
then that "new" environment would not have arisen
and wouldn't have fucked up their own game & make
us pay for it... ahahahaha.... But the greed took over
and blew the game... with the Einstein Dingleberries
merely having been the catalysts... and showing the
very BEST example what relativity is good for in the
real world.... .... ahahahaha....
>
Soon the same bubble-bursting, like on Wallstreet,
will happen to Einstein's crap too... And we will go
back to basics and turn our attention to solving the
problem of "Action at a distance" and "What is a
charge"... instead of sidestepping and twisting the
issue into manifolds and derivatives to end up with
space-time and other shit in the dark cul-de-sac of
Einstein... ahahaha...
>
So warned years and years ago...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/b9dec4475940fff7?hl=en
Einstein in a letter in 1954 to Besso in which he said:
>
::AE:: "I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based
::AE:: on the field concept, i. e., on continuous structures. In that
::AE:: case nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation
::AE:: theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics." . [ &
::AE::elsewhere] "why would anyone be interested in getting
::AE:: exact solutions of such an ephemeral set of equations?"
>
Other Luminaries have followed suit agreeing with Albert's
final realizations, insights and assessments, saying:
>
:: Professor Carver A. Mead of Caltech (a student of Feynman),
:: who said
:: "It is my firm belief that the last seven decades of the 20th century
::: will be characterized in history as the dark ages of physics."
>
:: or F.A Hayek, Nobel laureate, who said: "In the future,
:: Humanity will see in our Epoch an Era of superstition, essentially
:: associated with the names of Marx, Freud and Einstein"
>
:: or John Beckman, an astronomy professor and Einstein disciple:
:: "The theory of relativity lives on. Is it a true picture of reality?
:: That is probably more a matter of faith than of proof."
>
hanson worte:
ahahahaha... ahahaha... Thanks for the laughs, guys!
ahahahaha... ahahahahanson
dlzc
On Oct 7, 10:27 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
The boom and the bust are both part of the system of shells (as in
shell game). Money is a unit of trust, just as any other non-food
commodity is. We go looking for "real value" in assets... and you
find the "trust me" eyes of the guy offering you the goods.
We are all living in castles in the air, and are support staff for the
very few farmers and miners. Love it or change it. And if you change
it, be prepared for a major shift dwonwards in the Earth's population
density.
David A. Smith
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
You forgot about inflation.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff
JohnF
> Did you see 60 Minutes this sunday?
> I especially like the piece on the economic credit crisis where
> the blame for the mess was laid firmly at the feet of physicists.
> The story was that Wall Street hired a bunch of super-technical
> mathematically inclined physicists to work out obscure formulations of
> questionable "options" like credit default swaps that were so complex
> and esoteric that nobody could figure out what they meant and thus
> were peddled to unsuspecting banks.
>
--
John Forkosh ( mailto: j...@f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )
hanson
news:d7e7e9ca-640f-4231...@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Howdy hanson:
>
Yo!, Smitty:
>
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/c62d7fd040006386?hl=en
>
Smitty wrote:
The boom and the bust are both part of the system of
shells (as in shell game). Money is a unit of trust, just
as any other non-food commodity is. We go looking for
"real value" in assets... and you find the "trust me" eyes
of the guy offering you the goods.
>
ahahaha... and the "receiving" guy says after the bust:
"Oye weh"... "Go figure!"... ahahaha... But seriously for
a nano-sec, Smitty, in the final analysis, EVERYTHING
is a game and a gamble... no matter how strenuously
we like to suppress and deny that reality... even Food
commodities are a gamble, not just on the Futures Market...
but even in the fields... one single thunderstorm, frost,
flash flood, etc, etc, etc, and it's "TILT!"
>
Smitty wrote:
We are all living in castles in the air, and are support
staff for the very few farmers and miners. Love it or
change it. And if you change it, be prepared for a major
David A. Smith
>
hanson wrote:
Amen to that, Smitty!... .. with the notable exceptions of
(1) kike Mel Brooks and some of his ilk who believe
and said (~1974)
"These are just simple farmers. People of the land.
The common clay of the New West. You know -- morons."
and
(2) with that [EP] will die the "Green-Carbon-Foot-Print"
hopes for the crimi-legit graft by Al Gore & his enviro turds...
Thanks for the laughs, Smitty... ahhahahahahanson
Androcles
David A. Smith
===========================================
A change in density is a good thing. 150 years ago the population
density of Europe fell as the population density of the USA rose.
As to miners, they are the support staff for manufacturing. Who
needs raw materials if you don't make anything with it? And if you
have no manufacturing you might as well grow your own food.
The real problem is as the Leader of your House put it: you can't
buy a new car because you need a loan to pay for it and the dealer
can't sell you a car because he needs a loan to buy his inventory.
Tough shit. Cut the banker out, cut the civil servant out, they are
taking too big a slice of the pie. But what did you need a new car
for anyway? Maintain the old one properly, buy the new when
you can afford it and you WILL cut the banker out.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
I always buy second hand and never with credit.
Typically pay about $5k and keep the car 5 years.
maxwell
> In article
> <f7ac2fac-299c-4363-a06f-156b91895...@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>
Right on, Bill. The privately-owned Federal Reserve was established
after top secret meetings in 1913 by some of the richest men in
America. They realized that printing money that was not back by gold
promised the best method to concentrate wealth in their own hands.
Inflation quietly and continuously transfers the ownership of real
assets to those who can borrow to buy more assets. Only those with
assets are considered credit-worthy to borrow major amounts. This
scheme worked well until the 1980s when the go-go gang forgot that
real wealth is based on real assets. So they started using huge
amounts of credit (future promises to pay) to bet against other big
players in the financial casino. Unfortunately, there was nothing
real behind any of the bets. This has only become a problem as
bankers started betting with leveraged deposits from their customers.
This is illegal but trust the smart & greedy to find ways around the
rules (this motivation has kept generations of lawyers busy for
hundreds of years). The mathematicians & physicists hired by Wall St
played the role of 'magicians' that ironically confused even the
bankers, as well as the regulators. We will all have to live with
this mess. Taxpayers paying 'cash for trash' has nothing to do with
re-establishing credit back to the real economy - it's all about
covering the lost bets of all these big players. If the government
were to guarantee ALL customer deposits & compel banks to get back to
banking (including holding all their own loans) then loans will once
again flow into the real economy AND will be repaid.
This crisis illustrates the problem of building on fantasy (like math)
& not on reality (like physics).
Igor
wrote:
No, they don't. You only imply that through your stupidity. Until
you learn the difference between composition and addition, maybe you
should stop posting your bullshit!!
hanson
single letter in the post below... You are running after him in vain.
But thanks for the attention. It's flattering and funny!... hahaha..
ahahaha... ahahahanson
>
<Headm...@Hogwarts.physics> wrote in message
news:ybRGk.4659$5A6....@newsfe09.ams2...
Androcles
> ---------------- AHAHAHA ----------
> ------------- ahahahahahaha ---------
> ---------- ahahAHAHAahaha ----------
> -------- AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -----------
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote in message
news:6vTGk.1365$yI6....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Spaceman
I know the difference.
You do not "compose" speeds to add them.
Only idiots like you think you do such to "add speeds".
LOL
stric...@gmail.com
The physicists were probably relativists who could not find a job and
used the twisted concept of time dilation to conclude that the
meltdown would not happen in their lifetime, and relativistic mass to
conclude that money would grow to infinity if it were passed through
different banks at increasing speeds.
dlzc
On Oct 7, 3:14 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...@Hogwarts.physics> wrote:
> "dlzc" <dl...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:d7e7e9ca-640f-4231...@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Howdy hanson:
>
> On Oct 7, 10:27 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
>
> The boom and the bust are both part of the system
> of shells (as in shell game). Money is a unit of
> trust, just as any other non-food commodity is.
> We go looking for "real value" in assets... and you
> find the "trust me" eyes of the guy offering you the
> goods.
>
> We are all living in castles in the air, and are
> support staff for the very few farmers and miners.
> Love it or change it. And if you change it, be
> prepared for a major shift dwonwards in the
> Earth's population density.
>
> ===========================================
> A change in density is a good thing. 150 years
> ago the population density of Europe fell as the
> population density of the USA rose. As to
> miners, they are the support staff for manufacturing.
> Who needs raw materials if you don't make
> anything with it?
Glazing for windows. Metals for plows, hinges, and dinnerware.
Fertilizers. Salt. (Other) dietary mineral supplements. Mining is
not only for manufacturing "fluffware" for support staff.
> And if you have no manufacturing you might
> as well grow your own food. The real problem
> is as the Leader of your House put it: you can't
> buy a new car because you need a loan to
> pay for it and the dealer can't sell you a car
> because he needs a loan to buy his inventory.
> Tough shit. Cut the banker out, cut the civil
> servant out, they are taking too big a slice of
> the pie. But what did you need a new car
> for anyway? Maintain the old one properly,
> buy the new when you can afford it and you
> WILL cut the banker out.
Where do tires come from? Spare parts? The oil to run / lubricate
it? Cars and tractors have to go, if you are going to eliminate
mining.
David A. Smith
Benj
> Money is a unit of trust, just as any other non-food
> commodity is. We go looking for "real value" in assets... and you
> find the "trust me" eyes of the guy offering you the goods.
RULE: When someone says "trust me", immediately reach down and put
your hand firmly on your wallet!
A rule obviously not being followed by Congress recently.
Benj
> > And if you have no manufacturing you might
> > as well grow your own food. The real problem
> > is as the Leader of your House put it: you can't
> > buy a new car because you need a loan to
> > pay for it and the dealer can't sell you a car
> > because he needs a loan to buy his inventory.
> > Tough shit. Cut the banker out, cut the civil
> > servant out, they are taking too big a slice of
> > the pie. But what did you need a new car
> > for anyway? Maintain the old one properly,
> > buy the new when you can afford it and you
> > WILL cut the banker out.
So now ask yourself, WHY do you need a loan for a new car? Do you NEED
a new car or simply WANT one? And why is everyone so set on paying
double for a new car? (cost of car plus interest). That would be
because someone TOLD you that you should. So instead of just waiting
until you have the money to buy this or that, you borrow the money to
buy it and then pay some huge interest because someone on TV told you
that you can borrow against your future. And of course they tell you
this because THEY are the ones who get that extra money that things
cost.
So they sell you and you buy it. You have to promise your future so
you can buy some huge SUV with all the off-road features and low
mileage for that "extreme" "off-road" trip to work each day!
Everybody wonders how I make little money but live like a freakin'
king. Duh. I haven't bought all that BS that you are sold on. My old
POS Geo Metro hauls my ass around just fine. Do I need to spend a
hundred grand to drive around in "style"? Gimme a break.
If you wonder why you work more and have less, it's that banker on
your back you are carrying around.
There is only ONE valid reason for loans. That would be to get the
capital to purchase "something" that will eventually pay back the
money you borrowed plus (hopefully) a reasonable profit. If your car
is not going to be used to earn back the money you borrowed to buy it,
then you should have never had that loan! Think about it.
dlzc
On Oct 8, 10:00 am, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
...
> So now ask yourself, WHY do you need a loan
> for a new car? Do you NEED a new car or simply
> WANT one?
Somehow we have to get this back to physics.
Cars are 2-20,000 pounds of personal jewelry. Some folks live far
from "distribution centers" and horses or bicycles or walking simply
take too long. A new car is less problematic than a used one, and
spare parts are easier to get. Additionally, they help support the
guy next door (essentially).
...
> There is only ONE valid reason for loans. That
> would be to get the capital to purchase
> "something" that will eventually pay back the
> money you borrowed plus (hopefully) a
> reasonable profit. If your car is not going to be
> used to earn back the money you borrowed to
> buy it, then you should have never had that
> loan! Think about it.
Less than 10% of the *average* person's income is spent on
subsistence. The balance is voluntary / optional, and strictly
speaking keeps your neighbors employed. A loan simply provides income
for (ultimately) retired folks (and the occasional fat cat).
Insurance on the other hand...
We are members of a group. We decide how many members that includes,
by what we do *now*. We know how to collapse back to ruin, it is
built into the animal. Can we learn how to *trust*; or must
contagion, famine, and conflagration (the animal programming) take
over?
David A. Smith
Benj
> Cars are 2-20,000 pounds of personal jewelry. Some folks live far
> from "distribution centers" and horses or bicycles or walking simply
> take too long. A new car is less problematic than a used one, and
> spare parts are easier to get. Additionally, they help support the
> guy next door (essentially).
Question, should a person take out a LOAN to buy jewlery? Does that
make sense to you? How does the jewelry pay back the loan? I'm not
saying it can't. It could. Say you need to have the Jewelry to "show
class" for some promotion or sales job you are undertaking. Just like
say you need a new car because you are a salesman and need both the
'style" and the reliability. But for old Joe Sixpack, a loan to buy
stuff that has no potential payback is a loser.
> Less than 10% of the *average* person's income is spent on
> subsistence. The balance is voluntary / optional, and strictly
> speaking keeps your neighbors employed. A loan simply provides income
> for (ultimately) retired folks (and the occasional fat cat).
> Insurance on the other hand...
So, you are saying "greed is good"? Optional income isn't the problem.
If you have extra money, buy anything you like with it. The problem is
when you use that extra money to buy more money. Why not just write
checks directly to the fat cats and have that good feeling that comes
with giving to "charity"?
> We are members of a group. We decide how many members that includes,
> by what we do *now*. We know how to collapse back to ruin, it is
> built into the animal. Can we learn how to *trust*; or must
> contagion, famine, and conflagration (the animal programming) take
> over?
Why should we "learn" to "trust" anyone? Why should I "trust" anyone?
Experience on this planet has shown that to not be such a wise choice.
I love the way all the talking head news people all advertise
themselves by talking about "trust"!!! HA! They are about THE most
untrustworthy people this side of politicians! And the banks even
have "Trust" in their names! There is a reason for the "rule".
Here's the problem in a nutshell. On the planet there are two kinds
of people. Those willing to try to advance behavior to new levels of
civilization and those still following animal mores. Animals are
basically amoral. If you see something you want, if you can, you take
it. If someone gets in your way, you kill them. When hunting you use
camouflage and deception to make the kill. And it's all perfectly fine
whether you are the one living or the one dying under the rules of
"evolution". But here's the catch. Animals form societies, but they do
not create civilizations. And it's even worse than that. We humans
have BOTH groups operating with opposing philosophies at the same
time. One tries to use animal rules (predators) and another is trying
to raise civilization above the level of taking swords and going to
grab what you want from the neighboring city-state. But until somehow
these people are forced to wear Nazi-style patches identifying which
group they belong to, "trust" is a pretty foolish thing to try.
And of course, business is really just an analog for war. Hence one
has the problem of predators believing that the rich and intelligent
have a divine duty to take everything the poor and dumb own, while we
also have an idealistic group trying to promote logic, fairness, the
scientific method and civilization in the face of all this opposition.
It's not a particularly hopeful situation. Until one group or the
other gains the upper hand, the situation is not likely to be
resolved.
Nevertheless I'm still rooting for the side of civilization no matter
how it turns out.
Now. If we could just mathematically model these ideas and sell them
to Wall Street! :-)
Androcles
Hello Androcles:
On Oct 7, 3:14 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...@Hogwarts.physics> wrote:
> "dlzc" <dl...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:d7e7e9ca-640f-4231...@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Howdy hanson:
>
> On Oct 7, 10:27 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
>
> The boom and the bust are both part of the system
> of shells (as in shell game). Money is a unit of
> trust, just as any other non-food commodity is.
> We go looking for "real value" in assets... and you
> find the "trust me" eyes of the guy offering you the
> goods.
>
> We are all living in castles in the air, and are
> support staff for the very few farmers and miners.
> Love it or change it. And if you change it, be
> prepared for a major shift dwonwards in the
> Earth's population density.
>
> ===========================================
> A change in density is a good thing. 150 years
> ago the population density of Europe fell as the
> population density of the USA rose. As to
> miners, they are the support staff for manufacturing.
> Who needs raw materials if you don't make
> anything with it?
Smiffy:
Glazing for windows. Metals for plows, hinges, and dinnerware.
Fertilizers. Salt. (Other) dietary mineral supplements. Mining is
not only for manufacturing "fluffware" for support staff.
==============================================
Androcles:
Chimpanzees and polar bears don't live in glass houses. Nor do they
make anything.
What is the first obvious difference between man and any other animal?
His clothes.
Take them away and be prepared for a major shift downwards in the
Earth's population density (and population). First to go is the eskimo,
who is no farmer or miner.
Neither were North American aboriginals until farming was forced on
them by Europeans.
I repeat:
Who needs raw materials if you don't make anything?
Naming the things you do make doesn't answer that question.
> And if you have no manufacturing you might
> as well grow your own food. The real problem
> is as the Leader of your House put it: you can't
> buy a new car because you need a loan to
> pay for it and the dealer can't sell you a car
> because he needs a loan to buy his inventory.
> Tough shit. Cut the banker out, cut the civil
> servant out, they are taking too big a slice of
> the pie. But what did you need a new car
> for anyway? Maintain the old one properly,
> buy the new when you can afford it and you
> WILL cut the banker out.
Smiffy:
Where do tires come from?
=========================================
Androcles:
Unlike money, they grow on trees.
http://www.bio.ilstu.edu/Armstrong/syllabi/rubber/rubber.htm
Nylon shirts are mined, silk panties
are farmed, cotton blouses are farmed.
Miners and farmers are the support staff for manufacturing.
Smiffy:
Spare parts? The oil to run / lubricate
it? Cars and tractors have to go, if you are going to eliminate
mining.
=========================================
Androcles:
I'm talking about eliminating bankers and lawyers. Where did I
say I'd eliminate mining, you clown?
The politically correct buzzword for keeping an old car running
nowadays is "recycling". That means washing used containers
like milk churns instead of using them once and melting them
down, which is what your banker has persuaded you that you
need so that he can lend you (sell you) money to waste on packaging.
Sheesh, I live alone and I still throw out a full trash bag every week,
full of food packaging.
You don't throw your house away when it gets old, do you?
No, the bankers and lawyers are all over that like flies on shit.
Money is vapourware (like relativity).
Big financial crisis - cut interest rate by 0.5% and get the economy
going again. Trust me, its a shell game as cha-cha says.
Androcles
Dear Benj:
On Oct 8, 10:00 am, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
...
> So now ask yourself, WHY do you need a loan
> for a new car? Do you NEED a new car or simply
> WANT one?
Somehow we have to get this back to physics.
----------------------------------------------------------
Ok. Relativity is like money - vapourware.
=================================
dlzc
On Oct 8, 11:07 am, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
> On Oct 8, 1:37 pm,dlzc<dl...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Cars are 2-20,000 pounds of personal jewelry. Some
> > folks live far from "distribution centers" and horses or
> > bicycles or walking simply take too long. A new car
> > is less problematic than a used one, and spare parts
> > are easier to get. Additionally, they help support the
> > guy next door (essentially).
>
> Question, should a person take out a LOAN to
> buy jewlery? Does that make sense to you?
> How does the jewelry pay back the loan? I'm not
> saying it can't. It could. Say you need to have the
> Jewelry to "show class" for some promotion or
> sales job you are undertaking. Just like say you
> need a new car because you are a salesman and
> need both the 'style" and the reliability. But for old
> Joe Sixpack, a loan to buy stuff that has no
> potential payback is a loser.
But you don't disagree that optional income can be spent in any way,
and if "five years" disposable income can be "gathered" into a today
purchase, and this purchase simply makes you more liable to show up
for work, feel better about your circumstances, and feel like working
a little harder to make sure you can pay off the debt... should loans
for "jewelry" be forbidden? It seems to me "investment" yields
current productivity. Or can.
> > Less than 10% of the *average* person's income
> > is spent on subsistence. The balance is voluntary
> > / optional, and strictly speaking keeps your
> > neighbors employed. A loan simply provides
> > income for (ultimately) retired folks (and the
> > occasional fat cat). Insurance on the other hand...
>
> So, you are saying "greed is good"?
Greed is the basis for civization, if you insist on "black and white"
allocations. I am willing to discuss shadings here, if you wish.
> Optional income isn't the problem. If you have
> extra money, buy anything you like with it.
How about I help you buy a new / less-used car, on the agreement that
you pay me some amount more by the end of the loan?
> The problem is when you use that extra money
> to buy more money. Why not just write checks
> directly to the fat cats and have that good feeling
> that comes with giving to "charity"?
I would not consider you charity. I would hope that if I loaned you
money (like I had any), you would not consider me a fat cat because I
did. And vice versa.
> > We are members of a group. We decide
> > how many members that includes, by what
> > we do *now*. We know how to collapse back
> > to ruin, it is built into the animal. Can we
> > learn how to *trust*; or must contagion,
> > famine, and conflagration (the animal
> > programming) take over?
>
> Why should we "learn" to "trust" anyone?
Why should you not live next door to:
- someone that has a military arsenal, and practices some arcane
ritual you don't personally believe in (say cannibalism)?
- some family that squirts out a kid or two every nine months, neither
of them has a job, and they never (can afford to) go to the doctor?
... can you trust them?
> Why should I "trust" anyone?
You do and must. You trust your NSP to deliver your posts, for
example.
> Experience on this planet has shown that to not
> be such a wise choice. I love the way all the
> talking head news people all advertise themselves
> by talking about "trust"!!! HA! They are about THE
> most untrustworthy people this side of politicians!
Douglas Adams... "take me to your lizard"
> And the banks even have "Trust" in their names!
US unit of currency has exactly the same thing. Money is only a unit
of trust. And those that hold "precious metals and jems" trust that
they will always be in demand, and will get them food on demand.
> There is a reason for the "rule".
>
> Here's the problem in a nutshell. On the planet
> there are two kinds of people.
No. Nothing is this simple.
> Those willing to try to advance behavior to new
> levels of civilization and those still following
> animal mores. Animals are basically amoral.
Not really. Cats are really better at society than we are. As are
whales, dolphins (who still eat their own), wolves, etc. "Moral" is
pretty slippery when applied to animals, since much
"anthropomorphizing" must be imposed in order to judge. But to your
point...
Must society be based on the highest, the lowest, or something in
between?
> If you see something you want, if you can,
> you take it. If someone gets in your way, you
> kill them. When hunting you use camouflage
> and deception to make the kill. And it's all
> perfectly fine whether you are the one living or
> the one dying under the rules of "evolution".
> But here's the catch. Animals form societies,
> but they do not create civilizations. And it's
> even worse than that. We humans have BOTH
> groups operating with opposing philosophies
> at the same time. One tries to use animal
> rules (predators) and another is trying to
> raise civilization above the level of taking
> swords and going to grab what you want
> from the neighboring city-state.
... like oil, the right to form your own society, or wimmun ...
> But until somehow these people are forced
> to wear Nazi-style patches identifying which
> group they belong to, "trust" is a pretty
> foolish thing to try.
It is all we have, however. There is no way to judge a man's soul...
all we can hope for is his deeds... aka. "credit history", "military
service record", "driving record", ... abstractions in use today for
that purpose.
> And of course, business is really just an
> analog for war. Hence one has the problem
> of predators believing that the rich and
> intelligent have a divine duty to take everything
> the poor and dumb own, while we also have
> an idealistic group trying to promote logic,
> fairness, the scientific method and civilization
> in the face of all this opposition.
Well, the company I am working for is tripping all over itself to be
otherwise, and one of our competitor continues to sell lies about what
his equipment will do.. and takes the loss from another column in the
spreadsheet. But he gets sales.
> It's not a particularly hopeful situation. Until
> one group or the other gains the upper hand,
> the situation is not likely to be resolved.
>
> Nevertheless I'm still rooting for the side of
> civilization no matter how it turns out.
And that requires *trust*. There is no "guarantee" a civilization
will reward each of its citizens equally. Socialism and communism
didn't. Police states don't.
> Now. If we could just mathematically model
> these ideas and sell them to Wall Street! :-)
Yes, but who would buy it? Good chatting with you.
David A. Smith
Benj
> > Why should we "learn" to "trust" anyone?
>
> Why should you not live next door to:
> - someone that has a military arsenal, and practices some arcane
> ritual you don't personally believe in (say cannibalism)?
> - some family that squirts out a kid or two every nine months, neither
> of them has a job, and they never (can afford to) go to the doctor?
> ... can you trust them?
>
> > Why should I "trust" anyone?
> You do and must. You trust your NSP to deliver your posts, for
> example.
No most certainly do not! I EXPECT them to deliver them, but since I
use Google, I certainly don't TRUST them to do so! And in fact, they
regularly don't. And why shouldn't I live next door to someone with a
military "arsenal"? Should I trust my neighbor more than I trust G.W.
Bush? I think I would. And that would be true even if they practice
arcane rituals I don't personally believe in like say driving new SUVs
or voting Democrat. Why should I "trust" anyone? When I do business
it sure would be nice to operate old school with a handshake and
mutual trust. But those days (if they ever existed and I doubt they
did) are long gone. We write out contracts in detail precisely because
people can NOT be trusted.
Money is the IDEAL example. People say, if you have lots of money
your are wealthy! BZZZTTT! Wrong! Money is the opposite of wealth. It
is only a piece of worthless paper with a promise to pay written on
it. And how much can I "trust" that promise? Well, bunky, I had this
5 dollar bill that said Silver Certificate on it. The government
PROMISED me that that this piece of paper could be exchanged for
silver. Guess what, even though I expected them to hand over a few
worthless sandwich quarter tokens and say, "there you go", they
wouldn't even do THAT! Nope. It can only be exchanged for other
worthless pieces of paper with NO promises on them! Oh sure, I should
TRUST everybody. Even when there is a written contract they won't
honor it. That's evolution! If you can get away with something then
it's OK. If you can't and get caught, that's OK too. Either way
society "progresses"!
> > Nevertheless I'm still rooting for the side of
> > civilization no matter how it turns out.
>
> And that requires *trust*. There is no "guarantee" a civilization
> will reward each of its citizens equally. Socialism and communism
> didn't. Police states don't.
Does not require trust. But it does require a certain equality.
Equality before the law is not an equal reward. It's only the pursuit
of happiness, not a guarantee of it. And since most other forms of
government like monarchy or democratic republics are pretty much no
longer viable, I'd say the chances for human civilization at present
are pretty slim.
Jeff▲Relf
almost 9 years ago, is now worth only 1 oz.
Millions of homes now lay idle for sqautters to plunder.
That's why I invest in myself, not others, not stock or houses.
For example, I pay Individual.NET 10 Euros per year;
so I never have problems posting to Usenet.
I never fully plonk anyone, instead I keep a list of nyms to “ watch ”;
the rest are “ Muffled ”, so I only see their 3 most recent posts.
However, I read All replies to me, no matter who,
and I Always see the “ Heritage ”, e.g. the parent post; like this:
“ JeffRelf.F-M.FM/UnVisted.PNG ”.
Eric Gisse
> 4 oz of gold invested in Nasdaq at the start of 2000,
> almost 9 years ago, is now worth only 1 oz.
Gold has gone up a factor of 3 in price since Jan of 2000.
idiot.
[snip]
Jeff▲Relf
“ Gold has gone up a factor of 3 in price since Jan of 2000. ”
Had you invested in the Nasdaq Composite at its peak, start of 2000,
when it was 5,050, you'd be down 66** percent, before taxes, fees,
inflation***, etc. [ **: .66 = 1 - 1,740 / 5,050 ]
***:
In Seattle, the official inflation number is 5.6 percent/year;
however, since 1988, my rent has have gone up much more than that.
If what you say about gold is correct, then
Nasdaq, as measured in gold, lost 89** percent in 9 years.
**: .89 = 1 - 1,740 / 3 / 5,050
It was fraud, a scam, a con, and it killed tech-jobs.
Now, the same thing has happened in the housing market because
no one cared about Earnings or Management !
Millions of homes now lay idle for sqautters to plunder.
Fannie and Freddie “ own ” 6 teradollars in bundled mortgages.
Who manages these houses ? what are the earnings ( from rent ) ?
Eric Gisse
> You told me:
> " Gold has gone up a factor of 3 in price since Jan of 2000. "
>
NASDAQ is not gold. idiot.
Jeff▲Relf
You can track the Nasdaq Composite in terms of rolls of toilet paper;
or, better yet, months of rent+utilities in Seattle.
One glance at the pump prices and you know the value of the dollar;
one dollar is one share in “ U.S.A. Inc. ”, the U.S. government.
How well is it managed ? what is it earning, e.g. from taxes ?
What's this “ idiot ” shit ? are you talking to yourself again ?
stric...@gmail.com
> That would be because someone TOLD you that you should.
Maybe you are that stupid, but I buy a new car because it works
better, not because some crook like Honest Eric told me so. It's not
worth my time to fix them up. You can put the dealership in Fargo,
I'll still buy one.
stric...@gmail.com
What does Eric know? His only asset is the watch he lifted from
Walmart.
tj Frazir
more.
China is now a train wreck .
USA lost the least.
Its a winn for usa.
The pound slips 10 % to the buck.
40,000 usa multimlionaires 25000 uk 30,000 euro multimilionaires .
105,000 people are fucking the planets ass.
40,000 people just got paid 3 times for nothing wile they buy up the
stocks they want to keep.
tj Frazir
multimilonaires pay tax of 23 % wile now just 25 % pay at all.
40,000 people have 165 trillion and 300 million people have 50
trillion.
Id say this monopoly game is over.
You can only bank out a monopoly game so far . 400 morons are broke and
2 morons have all the money because if it was just 1person with all the
money it would be a monopoly .
IF the 2 dont pay TAX of 33 % the game will be over.
tj Frazir
Hospital xray film cut ito strips.
1 steel food can 1 alu pop can.
Out a 1/2 inch hole in the steel can and put the film inside the pop
can inside the steel can.
The pop can is the lense .
100 small ships 100 captain boxes with the money in gold coins in union
lake.
photons fromthe gamma moon.
reflected off the gold coins .
It cant cost much to look .
2 picture worth 1 million .
Because each image of gold will be a line .
Jeff▲Relf
investors can't be punished enough .. it's a real job-killer.
Jeff▲Relf
“ Lake Union ”, Seattle.
Also, I doubt there are enough gamma rays from the moon.
I'd love to be proved wrong, if you could do it.
Eric Gisse
Your troll-fu is slipping into straight up stupidity.
Benj
You've got the wrong idea. The problem is not new cars vs old cars,
the problem is buying a car when you don't have the money to do so.
You promise your future money so you can have something right now.
What you are buying is irrelevant except in the sense that one needs
to ask IF the gear in question will produce enough profit to pay back
the loan with some left over. The latter case is what we call
business. But people have been sold this "live for today" crap that
says, if you decide you want something (say a new car to show class
with the neighbors) you "deserve" to have it RIGHT NOW even though you
haven't got the money to buy it. THAT is the "sales pitch". And that
means that you max your credit card, you become a slave to your job,
pay much more for things than they actually cost and all the rest.
Bosses LOVE people who have put themselves in that fix. My bosses hate
me. When they say "kiss my ass" I can say "I don't think so". People
say, "aren't you worried about losing your job?" And I tell them, hey,
I could quit right now and pay myself my current salary for YEARS and
I sure can live on a lot less than that! That is freedom! So the
bottom line is not do you buy a new car, but do you already have the
money to buy that car you are looking at? See?
tj Frazir
the gamma moon image was taken from earth.
Only gold will reflect it. The steel can will absorb it.
Its shure not much but 10 good moon nights
can put a line on the film if theres gold to reflect it there.
Take a pic beside the city dock I bet you find 100 gold pices 1pice at
a time via xray photo.
I bet you find a captains box from 1000 feet away.
I know there's 100 captainsboxes there.
1 photo should show them all.
Jeff▲Relf
You're forever anonymous here,
so nothing you say can be verified one way or another.
Jeff▲Relf
who will you work for then ? a Nasdaq company ?
The spot-price for gold is now 916.75 USD per troy ounce
a 3.37-fold increase from the 272 USD/ounce at the start of 2000;
so Nasdaq, as measured in gold, lost 90** percent in ~9 years.
**: .90 = 1 - 1,645 / 3.37 / 5,050 ”.
Jeff▲Relf
won the “ Monoploy game ” a long time ago;
but a lot of people, myself included, don't play the game.
Currently, young Eric Gisse is just collecting diplomas,
but what if he decided to join this “ Monoploy game ” ..
who would he work for ? a Nasdaq company ?
The spot-price for gold is now 916.75 USD per troy ounce
a 3.37-fold increase from the 272 USD/ounce at the start of 2000;
so Nasdaq, as measured in gold, lost 90** percent in ~9 years.
**: .90 = 1 - 1,645 / 3.37 / 5,050 ”.
No, he'd either:
A. Keep collecting diplomas.
B. Live at home with his mom.
C. Work for the government.
Directly or indirectly, most people work for the government.
Jeff▲Relf
“ USA lost the least, it's a relative win. ”.
But was it a virtual “ victory ”, a delusion, or the real thing ?
As millions of Americans lose there jobs&homes
– crowding the park benches, hospital beds and jails –
the U.S. is spending trillions to install governments
in Iraq and Afghanistan .. with an eye toward Iran.
Where does the U.S. go from here ?
should it declare “ victory ”, pull out and then sit-back
and watch the nascent civil wars, piracy, drug running, etc. ?
G=EMC^2 Glazier
drugs. Those that get picked up are the little dealers that the Mafia
pay the police to arrest. Florida did away with the US constitution 12
years ago. Voting is a farce. Capitalism has been long gone. Its special
interests that govern. It has spread nationally and we are seeing the
results of America now a socialistic state. No majority governs. No
freedom of speech. No first amendment rights. It is worse than Big
Brother. Its republican Godfather. My Osceola sheriff Bob Hansel has
threatened my life letting honest citizens of Osceola county aware of
Severn Trent Avatar(Fl. biggest home builder) and Severn Trent
water(utility over billing) He works only for Severn Trent,and is both
corrupt and EVIL. A killer TreBert
maxwell
> Did you see 60 Minutes this sunday?
>
> I especially like the piece on the economic credit crisis where the
> blame for the mess was laid firmly at the feet of physicists. The
> story was that Wall Street hired a bunch of super-technical
> mathematically inclined physicists to work out obscure formulations of
> questionable "options" like credit default swaps that were so complex
> and esoteric that nobody could figure out what they meant and thus
> were peddled to unsuspecting banks.
>
> Shame on all you guys. You just cost us all 700 billion! And it
> ain't over yet.
The original role of (& justification for) the stock market was to
bring savings (net economic activity) back into productive
investment. Stock prices, once the company generated cash flow, were
based on unit fixed asset value plus the division of last year's
profits (retained or distributed as dividends). As investors morphed
into speculators, expectations of the future entered into the unit
stock price. First, on expectations of future earnings (in the short-
term, which moved down from 12 months to 3 months) and finally to
expectations on what other speculators might pay for the stock
(whether up or down). The linear error of multiplying the latest unit
price by the total number of issued shares leads to the myth of
"financial value". When the expectations disappeared then stock
prices collapsed with the "loss" of trillions of dollars. Reality
will eventually re-emerge & stock prices will begin to climb again for
those surviving companies that have real assets & offer real value to
people. The cycle will then begin again (the Big Bounce??).
Eric Gisse
Why do you keep saying stupid things like 'nasdaq, as measured in
gold' ?
Bill Snyder
<jow...@gmail.com> wrote:
Because he's a clueless imbecile. HTH. HAND.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
David Bostwick
More stupider, why is this nonsense in sci.* groups? And why am I extending
the chain?
Benj
Bostwick) wrote:
Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Why do you keep saying stupid things like 'nasdaq, as measured in
> >gold' ?
>
> More stupider, why is this nonsense in sci.* groups?
Because it was alleged that physicists and other scientists hired by
wall street created the complex derivatives that if not caused,
certainly contributed to the crash by hiding bad debt under
mathematical complexity.
> And why am I extending the chain?
Because you don't know better?
zzbu...@netscape.net
> On Oct 10, 12:40 pm, david.bostw...@chemistry.gatech.edu (DavidBostwick) wrote:
>
> Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >Why do you keep saying stupid things like 'nasdaq, as measured in
> > >gold' ?
>
> > More stupider, why is this nonsense in sci.* groups?
>
> Because it was alleged that physicists and other scientists hired by
> wall street created the complex derivatives that if not caused,
> certainly contributed to the crash by hiding bad debt under
> mathematical complexity.
Well, the problem is even worse than that, the idiots hid it under
*computer* complexity,
since the only thing the numerologists understand less about than
computers, is mathematics
that isn't Fibonacci numbers.
Which is why the people with economic, science, engineering,
history, and non-Cantor logic brains
invented the post AT&T fiber optics, RISC++ HDTV[], laser-guided
lasers, Post GM Holograms,
Post Ford Batteries, Post Chrysler Transmissions, XML, other
things that aren't
recursive Quantum Noise.for the IBM Wanks.
tj Frazir
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0605/moon_egret_150c.jpg
Address:http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0605/moon_egret_150c.jpg&imgrefurl=http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap060527.html&start=4&h=463&w=540&sz=23&tbnid=cUlfTb9GWWPJIM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=132&hl=en&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGamma%2BMoon%26gbv%3D1%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8&usg=__NT1p3nZeSqxT6pOgmTm0vVcnKHU=
tj Frazir
of them is solid gold.
Put a 30 foot handle on a rake go over there and rake it down to the
clay and scrap them off the clay.
tj Frazir
evry river.
But taking hospital xray film and cutting it into strips and put 1 strip
on the back side of a alu pop can and put that can inside a steel can
with a 1/2 inch hole as the cam hole .
Only gold will reflect a lunar xray from the moon to the gold to the
film .
It will put a line on for evry nuget.
Try a pice of gold and take a pic of it.
A spot in the film in the line is the nuget .
thats with a curved aluminum pop can as the lense .
A good lense would be a can tapped around a lense to shape the aluminum
like a lense.
That will produce an image if you put a film about the same distance 3
inch from the lense .
You can take the microwave wih you and run it with the door open LOL.
Dental xray machine and a xray cam home made is dirt cheep and timed
exposure is a good way to find gold platnium silver ..
The SHIPPING LOSSES DATA BASE shows how many tugs and ships burnt ..in
any port for the last 150 years.
It says where the ship burnt or sank.
The ones that burnt toulk gold down .
The captains box and passengers boxes.
Come in port with gold get wiskey inthe boat and blast it to pices.
tj Frazir
Seattle copper at scrap yard about $ 3 pound.
Trade leads find 1 container 40,000 pound at 2 bucks pound.
$ 6500 shipping.
$ 86500 for all.
GET an order from the scrap yard 25 cents under market at $ 3 .
Scrap the fucker.
Take that order to buy from the scap yard and hand it to the trade bank
Hand the bank the bill for $ 85000 and the order bill for $ 120,000
from the scrap yard.
you make $ 30,000 bucks or some shit like that evry time you scrap a
container full of brand new copper.
Try just 1.
make 30 grand.
Then try 1000 .
Then try 10,000
The tiny 1 container deal might be so fucking small you will do it.
tj Frazir
.
33 % and the game runs forever .
under 33 % it looks like a gain but its a quicker burn out.
The rule book for the game of monopoly is 3000 years old.
To end the game and not tax the winner 33 % and close trade door 8% the
game will end and start over after allthe players stop playing.
The entire thing is based on the ignorance of the masses .
usa 40,000 multimilionairs .
and 2 million 1 milionaires.
tj Frazir
Seattle 20 scrap yards ?
$ 350 ton steel. wile 2000 tons sits on the beach evry 100 feed in
moroco.
It dont take long to cut off 1000 tons of steel.
Drift wood is $ 175 ton japan for fuelchip.
california to seattle is 1 billion tons of fuelchip.
On the beach sits $ 170 ton.
tj Frazir
docked.
POOR Bill gates will wounder what him made of stocks will be worth if
his stock crashed.
tj Frazir
Consider what I replaced it with steam power waterockets.
50 to 1 .ton fuel.
It beets a outboard boat motor 400 to 1.
tj Frazir
A 14 inch jetnosel .
2 doble steam car boilers run 1 cyliner evry 3 seconds 2200 cubic inch
steam at 750 psi.
about 1 million pounds thrust.
A steamwasher pump is a 1 piston water pump turned real slow to push
water into a 1 inch tube coil on top of 1 burner off the stove.
1930 doble steam car . twins .
driving 22 inch cylinders as water rockets.
Its so fucking simple why was a steam engine even ever built ?
Taking steam and pushing a piston down or even turning a turbine to
move a ship is flat out stupid. The water rocket wount convert thrust
direct to rotation back to thrust and waist 90 % .
The fact is you cant waist much with a water rocket. Not many parts .
Eric Gisse
> On Oct 10, 12:40 pm, david.bostw...@chemistry.gatech.edu (DavidBostwick) wrote:
>
> Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >Why do you keep saying stupid things like 'nasdaq, as measured in
> > >gold' ?
>
> > More stupider, why is this nonsense in sci.* groups?
>
> Because it was alleged that physicists and other scientists hired by
> wall street created the complex derivatives that if not caused,
> certainly contributed to the crash by hiding bad debt under
> mathematical complexity.
Was it 'alleged' by anyone not functionally retarded?
zzbu...@netscape.net
Well, your missing the good part though. Since people use steam,
since your get steam from hot iron, magnets, ink, paper, paint,
ballast, rocks, coal, trees, wheels, horses, sails, books, tables,
ropes, and *pumps* rather than science idiots with moronic
percentages of whales.
.
.
Jeff▲Relf
to buy a Nasdaq Composite fund .. then today, almost 9 years later,
you cashed out what's left of that fund and used it to buy gold ..
.. you'd have just one pound ( ignoring taxes, fees, etc. ).
Nasdaq turned 10 pounds of gold into just one, 9 years later.
Personally, I don't see how you could fail to understand that.
Jeff▲Relf
When everyone is rich, fat, drunk and happy,
no one looks too closely at the fine print.
The same thing happened 20 years ago, durring the Savings&Loan Crisis;
McCain was a big part of that, even back then.
20 years from now, I expect it will happen all over again.
If people could be more disciplined ( ha ha ),
they'd value assests based on earnings and management, not the market.
No one asked:
“ How well are the houses being managed ?
have they been abandoned to squatters and looters ?
How much income/rent is being generated ? none ? ”.
tj Frazir
Why cash gold wait 10 years and buy the gold back ?
Jeff▲Relf
You wrote:
“ You could have had 10 ton copper for it.
Why cash gold wait 10 years and buy the gold back ? ”.
At the start of 2000, most people were out of gold and into Nasdaq;
now, the opposite is true, people are out of Nasdaq and into gold.
These are just the facts, I never said it was a good idea.
Burned, Nasdaq investors ran away, killing tech-jobs.
Those of us that like tech-jobs ( e.g. Eric and me ) were affected.
Jeff▲Relf
“ apod.Nasa.GOV/apod/ap060527.html ”.
That's “ eight exposures made during 1991-1994 ”, and it required
NASA's “ Energetic Gamma Ray Experiment Telescope ”, EGRET.
Not only is EGRET in orbit, it's:
“ the most sensitive instrument of its kind ” ..
a far cry from X-Ray film in a tin can over Lake Union.
As I see it, you're not making sense.
tj Frazir
You just dont want to do the work it was built to do.
Try just scrapping 1 container then..not the shipping container dont
scrap the container just the copper inside and they take the empty box.
Just get 1 order from 1 scrap yard in town for 40,000 pound at $ 2.90
pound .
Use india $ 3500 ton copper cathode 1 container . Show the import
export bank of usa boath . Make $ 30,000 ?
Thats what you do with that pc.
You yank a chunck of cash out of it.
evry day the scrap yard will want another.
$ 30,000 a day adds up for nothing .
tj Frazir
tj Frazir
wile your at it , take a pic of the mountain top over there.
Go take an xrray pic of 1000 feet of shore per click wile you zap the
shore with a dentel box.
Take your own xray bulb in a led box.
Point it at the near shore where the ships all burnt . They sank in
30 feet but too cold .
ships all over the lake burnt from time to time.
Youd get off as quick as you smell smoke cuz they haul blast black
powder .
1 chain reaction burnt 100 schooners and the entire town .
Jeff▲Relf
but, as far as I can tell, it takes “ eight exposures over 4 years ”
and Nasa's EGRET orbiter, “ the most sensitive instrument of its kind ”.
Jeff▲Relf
Either I'll get work developing Windows Visa apps and/or websites,
or I'll make “ urban camping ” my full-time job.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
the tax payer got a 100% screwing. We have to create jobs. The shit
will hit the fan when the election is over and republican controlled
press releases the truth. Better tax payers got $250,000 each out of
that bailout money and manufactured those tiny bamboo umbrellas. Why
not? TreBert
Jeff▲Relf
trillions of dollars worth of tax-payer funded loans
― nor do I want McCain, Obama or Congress to do it ―
that's what banks should be doing; let Fannie and AIG fail, I say.
As Carl Sagan might say, there are trillions and trillions
( 55 trillion, to be exact ) of dollars in poorly-regulated derivatives,
including no||low provisions for losses, leveraged 30 to 1.
Even the Milky Way looks small compared to that.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
payer 2.2 trillion bucks So my company M&M is now going for a 50
million dollar small business loan,and will put 500 to work getting
Florida empty homes back in livable shape. The mortgage banks will force
the government to grant me this loan TreBert
G=EMC^2 Glazier
get the money anyway and it kills two birds with one stone. go figure
TreBert
Jeff▲Relf
Why reward only those who took on credit card debt ?
As I said: You're not a loan officer, I don't want you making
trillions of dollars worth of tax-payer funded loans
― nor do I want McCain, Obama or Congress to do it ―
that's what banks should be doing; but let Fannie and AIG fail.
Just as over-eating, over-drinking,
and over drugging would ruin your health ..
over-consuming fuel ruins humanity's health.
For this reason:
higher taxes, regulations and prices would be a good thing.
Lately, the world has been on a drunken binge to the tune of
55 trillion dollars in Poorly-Regulated derivatives,
including no||low provisions for losses, often leveraged 30 to 1.
Like a drunk, the U.S. gov. chose “ a hair of the dog that bit me ”,
to wit: trillion dollar bailouts.