Why the Natsis used diesel engines in gas chambers
George Hammond
Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis
used "captured Russian tank engines" (diesels) to operate
homicidal gas chambers at Sobibor and Treblinka where more
than a million civilians were murdered.
They point out that Diesel engines run on the Otto Cycle
while Gasoline engines run on the Rankine Cycle, and that the
difference causes a diesel to pass nearly 80% of the intake
oxygen, unburned, into the exhaust. Therefore it would be
virtually impossible to asphyxiate anybody with one, and
moreover they put out very little Carbon Monoxide compared
to a Gasoline engine.
In the following, it is explained how and why they were
using Diesels, and exactly why the Diesel was far more
effective and deadly than a Gasoline engine.
[Hammond]
At full load a diesel will not exhaust any oxygen, a gasoline engine
does not exhaust any oxygen under any conditions. It's true at less than
full load a diesel will exhaust a significant percentage of oxygen, and
it is a fact that fully loading down a stationary engine is a troublesome
mechanical detail.
However, there is a simple and well known solution to this which was
obviously known to the Natsis. All they did was run a second pipe
from the other end of the gas chamber back into the air intake of
the Diesel engine. Thus they built what is commonly called a "closed cycle"
system. Since the engine sucks 2000 CFM and the volume of the
chamber is only 6000 CF, it will circulate the air every 3 minutes
(probably 2 minutes when you subtract for the volume of the occupants).
In 15 minutes the air would pass through the diesel 7 times, removing at
least 80% of the oxygen. On top of that of course, there are 400 people
breathing out the oxygen in the chamber too. Typically they ran the
engine for 25 minutes. The engine would continue to run at full speed
(say 3000 rpm) until the oxygen content dropped below the stoichiometric
mixture level and the rpms would begin to drop. They then would pull
back on the throttle which would continue running until all the oxygen
was gone and it would stop. Probably they had a small air bleed valve
near the intake which they could crack open to keep the engine running
longer if convenient.
BTW, this also clears up the often mentioned mystery of "why didn't
they use gasoline engines instead of diesels" since gas engines
are more readily available, cheaper and easier to operate, and put out a
lot of Carbon Monoxide which is lethal. The answer is that a gas engine
won't run in a closed system while a diesel will. A gas engine won't run
on an air supply that has a variable (decreasing) oxygen content because
of the fixed jets in the carburettor. If the oxygen content drops at all,
it will run "rich" and flood and stall, eventually fouling the plugs also.
Not so with a diesel. As the oxygen content drops and the rpms fall off,
they cut back on the throttle to reduce the fuel and the engine kept
on running. It will probably keep running until ALL the oxygen
is gone. This explains why they exclusively used "diesels from
captured Russian tanks" instead of gasoline engines, even though
gas engines put out more CO. The gas engine wouldn't run in a closed
system where the object was to burn up all the oxygen in ten minutes.
Obviously any CO produced by the Diesel was just the frosting on the
cake.. not even necessary. Everybody was dead of asphyxiation (oxygen
starvation) within 10 or 15 minutes probably.
The "EGR" valve in your car does the same thing BTW (exhaust gas
recirculation valve), every car has one nowadays. This technical
idea is as old as the hills; the idea of a "closed cycle"
recirculating system. It was certainly known to the engineers
who set up the gas chambers.
Everybody would be dead of asphyxiation with 10 or 15 minutes at
the most. So efficient, convenient, simple and cheap was this
method, that the Natsis gassed and killed approximately 1,000,000
civilians at Treblinka alone in 400 days, according to Franz Stangl's
corroborated testimony at his trial in Dusseldorf Germany in 1970
(He was commandant of both Sobibor and Treblinka, arrested in
1967 in Brazil by Wiesenthal and others, and extradited to Germany
to stand trial).
Under the circumstances, apparently no technical description of
the plumbing arrangement for the diesel system appears to be published.
Of course, mass murder sites like Treblinka were purposely located in far
out rural areas of Poland, in the woods. They were hastily slapped
together with local materials and civilian slave labor, and were quickly
torn down and bulldozed over a year and a half later when the
Russians began advancing on the area.
--
BE SURE TO VISIT MY WEBSITE, BELOW:
-----------------------------------------------------------
George Hammond, M.S. Physics
Email: gham...@mediaone.net
Website: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ghammond/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------
Paul Lutus
news:3A0D9B1B...@mediaone.net...
> [Hammond]
>
> Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
For crying out loud. At least learn how to spell "Nazi." Your valid (though
tautological) point about CO will be lost to many who won't believe you know
anything after seeing your spelling.
--
Paul Lutus
www.arachnoid.com
George Hammond
>
> "George Hammond" <gham...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> news:3A0D9B1B...@mediaone.net...
> > [Hammond]
> >
> > Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
> > that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis ...
>
> tautological) point about CO will be lost to many who won't believe you know
> anything after seeing your spelling.
[Hammond]
Anyone who needs to know about it will recognize it.
The spelling is intentional. It keeps the automatic
web crawler search engines from archiving my name and address
all over the terrorist hate literature domains on
the Internet. Many of them will index anything that has
the word "N-zi" in it.
>
> --
>
> Paul Lutus
> www.arachnoid.com
Ron Hardin
> Anyone who needs to know about it will recognize it.
> The spelling is intentional. It keeps the automatic
> web crawler search engines from archiving my name and address
> all over the terrorist hate literature domains on
> the Internet. Many of them will index anything that has
> the word "N-zi" in it.
Mention Godwin in the same post and you avoid it.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
pete
I saw the new guy declaring his global variables initialized at zero,
and I said
"The compiler automatically intializes globals to zero."
He said "How do you know it will?"
"Because that's C. It's not a compiler option.
Any compiler that's is a C compiler will do it."
"Any compiler that won't is not C, not C ... NOT C, YOU NOT C BASTARD!"
Then I stopped shouting, and a good laugh was had by all.
--
pete
Paul Lutus
> > > Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
> > > that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis ...
> >
> > For crying out loud. At least learn how to spell "N-zi." Your valid
(though
> > tautological) point about CO will be lost to many who won't believe you
know
> > anything after seeing your spelling.
>
> [Hammond]
> Anyone who needs to know about it will recognize it.
Don't you get it? By misspelling that crucial word, you've relegated this
thread to the great bit-bucket in the sky. Anyone searching Deja.com for
"Nazi" will miss the entire exchange.
Stop rationalizing and start spelling.
And you edited the quote from my post without saying so, changing "Nazi" to
"N-zi." This is inexcusable manners and impossible to justify.
> It keeps the automatic
> web crawler search engines from archiving my name and address
> all over the terrorist hate literature domains on
> the Internet.
No, it instantly hooks you up with other morons who cannot spell. It has an
effect exactly opposite what you think.
> Many of them will index anything that has
> the word "N-zi" in it.
Or "Na-i," so they catch people like you who can't spell.
--
Paul Lutus
www.arachnoid.com
Dirk Bruere
"Paul Lutus" <nos...@nosite.com> wrote in message
news:J%kP5.147048$bI6.5...@news1.giganews.com...> news:3A0D9B1B...@mediaone.net...
> > [Hammond]
> >
> > Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
> > that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis ...
>
(though
> tautological) point about CO will be lost to many who won't believe you
know
> anything after seeing your spelling.
It's always amazes me how NeoNazis are so keen *not* to have had their ilk
kill the Jews deliberately.
Given the Nazis treatment of people they did not particularly hate one
doesn't have to use too much imagination to work out what they might do to
those they did.
Dirk
nightbat
I agree with Mr. Hammond, here in America, where almost
anyone can have a gun, discretion must never be underestimated,
especially on the net for the unlawful acquisition of personal
information. It is for that reason I use the honorary Tesla pseudo name
of nightbat. In a world filled with terrorists that, for what ever
reason or misconceptions , take issue with scientific posts or
advancements, based on truth, but rub them or particular interests the
wrong way, must not be taken lightly. Prominent and individual free
speech must not be sub verged at the hands of fringe elements who would
prefer to subvert truth in order to promote their own agendas.
Unfortunately, distinguished posters may be targeted for negative Email
lists or harassment due to their position or the possible effect of
their brilliant scientific discoveries and innovations.
the nightbat
George Hammond wrote:
>
> Paul Lutus wrote:
> >
> > "George Hammond" <gham...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> > news:3A0D9B1B...@mediaone.net...
> > > [Hammond]
> > >
> > > Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
> > > that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis ...
> >
> > For crying out loud. At least learn how to spell "N-zi." Your valid (though
> > tautological) point about CO will be lost to many who won't believe you know
> > anything after seeing your spelling.
>
> [Hammond]
> Anyone who needs to know about it will recognize it.
> The spelling is intentional. It keeps the automatic
> web crawler search engines from archiving my name and address
> all over the terrorist hate literature domains on
> the Internet. Many of them will index anything that has
> the word "N-zi" in it.
>
> >
Noah A Christis
nightbat <nigh...@home.ffni.com> wrote:
[..re:george hammond..]
> their brilliant scientific discoveries and innovations.
ITYM: scienterrific!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
David DeLaney
>So, I saw the new guy
> declaring his global variables
> initialized at zero,
>and I said
> "The compiler automatically intializes globals to zero."
>
>He said "How do you know it will?"
>
>"Because that's C. It's not a compiler option.
> Any compiler that's is a C compiler will do it."
>"Any compiler that won't is not C, not C
> ... NOT C, YOU NOT C BASTARD!"
Presto. Freeverse.
>Then I stopped shouting, and a good laugh was had by all.
Dave "somewhere Laurie Anderson is slowly spinning in darkness" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
George Hammond
>
> > > > Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
> > > > that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis ...
> > >
> > > For crying out loud. At least learn how to spell "N-zi." Your valid
> (though
> > > tautological) point about CO will be lost to many who won't believe you
> know
> > > anything after seeing your spelling.
> >
> > [Hammond]
> > Anyone who needs to know about it will recognize it.
>
> thread to the great bit-bucket in the sky. Anyone searching Deja.com for
> "Nazi" will miss the entire exchange.
[Hammond]
Desperate people hardly need advice. I can assure you
that anyone who desperately needs to know about this has
ALREADY heard about the post through the international
grapevine. There are people actively battling the
Holocaust Deniers, they will find out about this
post without any doubt. I personally cannot undertake
it because I am not a political relations
authority, I am a scientist. More to the point,
I have more important work to complete vis a vis Human
Progress (see my website). The experts will find out
about this purely technical post.
As for the rest of the rubbernecks who only
read this stuff for entertainment, they can go
fuck themselves.
>
> Stop rationalizing and start spelling.
>
[Hammond]
Get off my case.
> And you edited the quote from my post without saying so, changing "Nazi" to
> "N-zi." This is inexcusable manners and impossible to justify.
>
[Hammond]
Inexcusable? How about this statement:
'You don't tell me nuthin'.. maybe you
can understand that one.
> > It keeps the automatic
> > web crawler search engines from archiving my name and address
> > all over the terrorist hate literature domains on
> > the Internet.
>
> No, it instantly hooks you up with other morons who cannot spell. It has an
> effect exactly opposite what you think.
>
[Hammond]
Let the professionals handle it. I'm a
professional in another field, I'll handle
my end of it.
> > Many of them will index anything that has
> > the word "N-zi" in it.
>
> Or "Na-i," so they catch people like you who can't spell.
>
George Hammond
>
> nightbat wrote
>
> I agree with Mr. Hammond, here in America, where almost
> anyone can have a gun, discretion must never be underestimated,
> especially on the net for the unlawful acquisition of personal
> information. It is for that reason I use the honorary Tesla pseudo name
> of nightbat. In a world filled with terrorists that, for what ever
> reason or misconceptions , take issue with scientific posts or
> advancements, based on truth, but rub them or particular interests the
> wrong way, must not be taken lightly. Prominent and individual free
> speech must not be sub verged at the hands of fringe elements who would
> prefer to subvert truth in order to promote their own agendas.
> Unfortunately, distinguished posters may be targeted for negative Email
> lists or harassment due to their position or the possible effect of
>
[Hammond]
Yeah.. this guy's got a point. I mean, you take the keys out of
your car when you park it, right. It's that simple, people would
be advised to follow the conventional rules of safe behavior, and
that includes not frequenting whorehouses, and not indiscriminately
posting controversial/inflammatory matter on the Internet.
George Hammond
>
> "Paul Lutus" <nos...@nosite.com> wrote in message
> news:J%kP5.147048$bI6.5...@news1.giganews.com...
> > > [Hammond]
> > >
> > > Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
> > > that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis ...
> >
> (though
> > tautological) point about CO will be lost to many who won't believe you
> know
> > anything after seeing your spelling.
>
> kill the Jews deliberately.
> Given the Nazis treatment of people they did not particularly hate one
> doesn't have to use too much imagination to work out what they might do to
> those they did.
>
> Dirk
[Hammond]
You got that one right, only problem is you don't really
know what you're saying.
The situation is much more poignant than that, as any
grown man knows. The brunt of the suffering of WWII was
shouldered by the lower classes, including most Jews
who were too poor to escape.
What is particularly poignant, and you should be warned about
this, is that many of the death camp Nasi personnel were also
lower class embittered people. There can be no doubt that
it was a heartbreaking condemnation of them to be forced
"politically" to serve in the jobs that they were forced to do,
they naturally had a repulsion of killing there own kind, and
indubitably they keenly hated someone else for trapping them
into doing it. Above all else, beware of becoming the target of
THAT hatred which exceeds all others.
I'm not saying that guys like Hoss and Stangl were good
people, and not sadistic pricks, but there is definitely a
thin streak of decency in those men that sympathized with the
people they were forced to murder, based on class identity.
An exhibition of this is seen in Stangl's testimony before the
German court in Dusseldorf, where he made a clean breast of
the thing, cited names, dates, numbers, and gave an accurate
account of the whole dirty business.. one of the few reliable
accounts to come out of it. There is no doubt that he did this
because of his class identification with the class of people
he was being ordered to murder. Fact is, Stangl began the war
as an anti-Natzi activist, but was caught by the police and using
very sophisticated political entrapment, he was forced to
oversee death camps. Believe me, you can imagine who someone
like Stangl really blames for the Holocaust.. he obviously
blames the politically powerful and the privileged. This is
probably why the Germans gave him life and not a death sentence.
George Hammond
refers has been permanently archived at:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ghammond/Diesel.html
=========================================================
Dirk Bruere
> > > > Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
> > > > that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis ...
> > It's always amazes me how NeoNazis are so keen *not* to have had their
ilk
> > kill the Jews deliberately.
> > Given the Nazis treatment of people they did not particularly hate one
> > doesn't have to use too much imagination to work out what they might do
to
> > those they did.
> What is particularly poignant, and you should be warned about
> this, is that many of the death camp Nasi personnel were also
> lower class embittered people. There can be no doubt that
> it was a heartbreaking condemnation of them to be forced
> "politically" to serve in the jobs that they were forced to do,
> they naturally had a repulsion of killing there own kind, and
That may be true of some, but how many placed requests for transfers to SS
units on the Eastern Front rather than commit murder? Very few I suspect. In
which case we might add 'cowardice' to the list of charges.
Also, there were more like Anton Geothe (Schindlers List fame) who were
corrupt and sadistic far beyond the call of duty. If the Allies had not
hanged him the SS would have shot him, he was that bad. He was already on
capital charges of brutality and corruption. The SS had previous shot camp
commandants for similar offenses. Which makes you wonder how bad you had to
be to be charged by the SS with brutality.
Dirk
George Hammond
may be seen at:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ghammond/Diesel.html
======================================================
David DeLaney wrote:
>
> pete <pfi...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >So, I saw the new guy
> > declaring his global variables
> > initialized at zero,
> >and I said
> > "The compiler automatically intializes globals to zero."
> >
> >He said "How do you know it will?"
> >
> >"Because that's C. It's not a compiler option.
> > Any compiler that's is a C compiler will do it."
> >"Any compiler that won't is not C, not C
> > ... NOT C, YOU NOT C BASTARD!"
>
> Presto. Freeverse.
>
> >Then I stopped shouting, and a good laugh was had by all.
>
> Dave "somewhere Laurie Anderson is slowly spinning in darkness" DeLaney
> --
--
George Hammond
may be seen at:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ghammond/Diesel.html
==========================================================
Dirk Bruere wrote:
>
> "George Hammond" <gham...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> news:3A0FC0C8...@mediaone.net...
> > > > > Recently, some "gas chamber deniers" have been pointing out
> > > > > that it is widely cited in Holocaust literature that the Natsis ...
>
> > > It's always amazes me how NeoNazis are so keen *not* to have had their
> ilk
> > > kill the Jews deliberately.
> > > Given the Nazis treatment of people they did not particularly hate one
> > > doesn't have to use too much imagination to work out what they might do
> to
> > > those they did.
>
> > What is particularly poignant, and you should be warned about
> > this, is that many of the death camp Nasi personnel were also
> > lower class embittered people. There can be no doubt that
> > it was a heartbreaking condemnation of them to be forced
> > "politically" to serve in the jobs that they were forced to do,
> > they naturally had a repulsion of killing there own kind, and
>
> That may be true of some, but how many placed requests for transfers to SS
> units on the Eastern Front rather than commit murder? Very few I suspect. In
> which case we might add 'cowardice' to the list of charges.
>
<snip>
[Hammond]
It's a documented fact that the suicide rate
of Nasi death camp personnel was about 1/3.
Dirk Bruere
> > > What is particularly poignant, and you should be warned about
> > > this, is that many of the death camp Nasi personnel were also
> > > lower class embittered people. There can be no doubt that
> > > it was a heartbreaking condemnation of them to be forced
> > > "politically" to serve in the jobs that they were forced to do,
> > > they naturally had a repulsion of killing there own kind, and
> > That may be true of some, but how many placed requests for transfers to
SS
> > units on the Eastern Front rather than commit murder? Very few I
suspect. In
> > which case we might add 'cowardice' to the list of charges.
> >
> <snip>
>
>
> [Hammond]
> It's a documented fact that the suicide rate
> of Nasi death camp personnel was about 1/3.
Bears out my thesis to some extent.
I don't think they would have been refused that transfer.
Dirk