Cold fusion review
Gordon
Pons' cold fusion attempts, back in the late 1980s, and have some
questions that I can't find answers for.
Did anyone witness the reported "melt-down", or was this an
unverified report?
Is it at all possible that they did observe the effects of
hydrogen fusion, but did not fully understand what had caused it?
That is, could there have been some "accidental" perturbation to
their experiment that they weren't aware of, and which caused a
very brief, one time only sequence of fusions to occur?
They were using palladium and platinum for electrodes, bringing
the hydrogen ions into the palladium interstitial spaces, where
they anticipated that a very large hydrogen pressure would
develop, and, hopefully, random thermal motion of the hydrogen
ions would result in some collisions with enough energy to
produce fission.
Is it possible that some perturbation in their electrolysis power
supply might have produced some form of resonance in the
palladium interstitial spaces that actually did result in a one
time sequence of fusion events?
Hydrogen embrittlement has always been a problem in the
electroplating of iron and steel alloys. The plating process
brings monatomic hydrogen ions into the steel. These hydrogen
ions then migrate into interstitial cavities in the steel, where
they form bonds with other hydrogen ions, becoming ordinary
diatomic H2 molecules. Because they are too large, these H2
molecules can not migrate out of the interstitial space, but
become entrapped there. As more H2 molecules form and accumulate
the static pressure builds until the steel ruptures, forming a
micro crack. This process repeats again and again until the steel
item fails.
Are we sure hydrogen embrittlement is an ordinary, low temp. H2
pressure rupture, or could it be a now and then hydrogen fusion
event with the liberation of sufficient energy to bump the local
temperature up enough that adiabatic pressure then causes the
rupture?
Gordon
Sam Wormley
Some background
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
Gordon
<swor...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>Gordon wrote:
>> I've been reviewing the information pertaining to Fleishmann and
>> Pons' cold fusion attempts, back in the late 1980s, and have some
>> questions that I can't find answers for.
[snip]
>> Gordon
>
> Some background
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
>
Thanks, Sam, there is some good information on this Wikipedia
site. I've studied most of it but still have some questions.
Replacing a protium isotope's electron with a muon will provide
means for fusing protium isotopes into deuterium isotopes because
of the reduced coulomb barrier. Would it be possible to achieve a
similar coulomb barrier reduction by binding the protium isotopes
to the palladium negative electrode? It seems that if the protium
isotopes' positive nuclear charges were drawn tightly to the
palladium while the electron cloud was repelled away from the
palladium, the nuclei of the protium isotopes would be forced
into close proximity, and random thermal or other induced motion
might cause a fusion, occasionally.
If these bound protium isotopes were subjected to an ultra high
frequency electrical signal superimposed upon the palladium
electrode's voltage, could this cause sufficient coordinated
motion between the protium isotopes to induce some random fusion
occurrences? I'm thinking of resonance effects involving the
protium isotopes.
Gordon
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:33:55 GMT, Sam Wormley
><swor...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>>Gordon wrote:
>>> I've been reviewing the information pertaining to Fleishmann and
>>> Pons' cold fusion attempts, back in the late 1980s, and have some
>>> questions that I can't find answers for.
>[snip]
>>> Gordon
>>
>> Some background
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
>>
>Thanks, Sam, there is some good information on this Wikipedia
>site. I've studied most of it but still have some questions.
>
>Replacing a protium isotope's electron with a muon will provide
>means for fusing protium isotopes into deuterium isotopes because
>of the reduced coulomb barrier. Would it be possible to achieve a
>similar coulomb barrier reduction by binding the protium isotopes
>to the palladium negative electrode?
Nope. Chemical energies are many orders of magnitude too low to
achieve this goal.
> It seems that if the protium
>isotopes' positive nuclear charges were drawn tightly to the
>palladium while the electron cloud was repelled away from the
>palladium, the nuclei of the protium isotopes would be forced
>into close proximity, and random thermal or other induced motion
>might cause a fusion, occasionally.
The "close proximity" you're talking about is similar tho this you'll
get in solid deuterioum or deuterium ice and you don't see fusion
there. It is "close" on atomic scale, still very far away on nuclear
scale.
>
>If these bound protium isotopes were subjected to an ultra high
>frequency electrical signal superimposed upon the palladium
>electrode's voltage, could this cause sufficient coordinated
>motion between the protium isotopes to induce some random fusion
>occurrences? I'm thinking of resonance effects involving the
>protium isotopes.
>
Again, this is all negligible on nuclear scales. The answer is no.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
me...@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
Gordon
wrote:
Mati, in general I agree with your assessment. The whole idea
does seem a bit over the edge, so to speak. But, I still have
some questions. If muon-catalyzed cold hydrogen fusion works,
obviously it is possible to breach the coulomb barrier much
easier when the nuclei are brought closer together. The muon
catalyst approach does this by greatly reducing the electron
(muon) shell radius by reason of the very large mass of the muon,
compared to an electron. This brings the hydrogen nuclei much
closer together, and thus more vulnerable to collisions in excess
of the fusion energy threshold.
I'm trying to rationalize this same effect, if it can be brought
about by Stern layer bonding the hydrogen nuclei to an electrode,
accompanied by something in the form of microwave heating. If a
microwave oven can focus energy onto water molecules, why
couldn't a similar field, superimposed upon the electrode charge
cause enough random movement among the Stern layer of protium
nuclei to exceed the coulomb barrier and produce a fusion
reaction now and then?
If a nanoparticle graphite structure is used for the electrodes,
wouldn't it be possible for those Stern layer nuclei to move
toward the electrode from both sides, and perhaps some of them
pass through the nanoparticle electrode interstitial spaces, then
collide like two cars speeding toward each other?
I realize that two cars with equal mass and equal but opposite
velocity vectors in a head-on collision would each experience the
same impulse as one car in a straight on collision with an
immovable object such as a concrete barrier. But, this impulse
would be greater than a speeding car impacting a stationary car
with no other constraints involved.
It seems the hydrogen nuclei would be influenced by the electrode
field such that the associated electrons would be polarized and
on the side of the nucleus most distant from the nanoparticle
electrode. That is, the hydrogen nuclei would effectively be in
an ionic state, and would collide nucleus to nucleus, with no
significant interference from the atomic electrons.
Gordon
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
The stress is on "much closer together". By a factor of 200 or so
compared to solid densities. The density of hydrogen in Paladium, on
the other hand, is just comparable to solid densities.
>
>I'm trying to rationalize this same effect, if it can be brought
>about by Stern layer bonding the hydrogen nuclei to an electrode,
>accompanied by something in the form of microwave heating. If a
>microwave oven can focus energy onto water molecules,
It doesn't "focus energy" it just delivers energy, just as sunlight
does.
> why
>couldn't a similar field, superimposed upon the electrode charge
>cause enough random movement among the Stern layer of protium
>nuclei to exceed the coulomb barrier and produce a fusion
>reaction now and then?
As I mentioned, there is a huge scale difference between chemical and
nuclear energies. Now, stripping your question off superfluous
elements, what you're asking is "why can't we heat heat the stuff
enough so that the thermal movement will allow penetration of the
coulomb barrier?" Well, the problem is that the deuterium (I don't
know why you keep tlking about "protium") nuclei are held in the
electrode with binding energies of the order of an eV, while the
energies required to make a significant dent in the coulomb barrier
are few orders of magnitude higher. And if you would heat up the
deuterons to more than few eV, they wouldn't remain in the lattice.
That's in the nutshell the problem of fusion, combining sufficient
energies with sufficient containment.
>
>If a nanoparticle
Sigh. Do you think that "nanoparticles" is a magical incantation:-)
> graphite structure is used for the electrodes,
>wouldn't it be possible for those Stern layer nuclei to move
>toward the electrode from both sides, and perhaps some of them
>pass through the nanoparticle electrode interstitial spaces, then
>collide like two cars speeding toward each other?
>
No. More like two snails speeding toward each other.
>I realize that two cars with equal mass and equal but opposite
>velocity vectors in a head-on collision would each experience the
>same impulse as one car in a straight on collision with an
>immovable object such as a concrete barrier. But, this impulse
>would be greater than a speeding car impacting a stationary car
>with no other constraints involved.
Sure. And at room temperature it'll be orders of magnitude short of
what's required.
>
>It seems the hydrogen nuclei would be influenced by the electrode
>field such that the associated electrons would be polarized and
>on the side of the nucleus most distant from the nanoparticle
>electrode. That is, the hydrogen nuclei would effectively be in
>an ionic state, and would collide nucleus to nucleus, with no
>significant interference from the atomic electrons.
>
Do you know what the coulomb barrier is? and why do you think the
electrons are an "interference" here. If anything, they help.
Gordon
wrote:
I agree with this in general, but I still am not 100% convinced
that something in the realm of random distribution of momenta
vectors might alter the general expectations.
The problem with hydrogen in palladium is that the hydrogen is
inside the palladium where the electrode field is zilch. If the
protium and deuterium ions were bound to the surface of the
electrode in a Stern Layer the effects of a superimposed
microwave field to the electrodes would/could be effective in
"rattling these ions around and smacking them into each other."
This might provide enough random distribution of velocity vectors
to put some collisions above the Coulomb Barrier momentum level.
>
>>
>>I'm trying to rationalize this same effect, if it can be brought
>>about by Stern layer bonding the hydrogen nuclei to an electrode,
>>accompanied by something in the form of microwave heating. If a
>>microwave oven can focus energy onto water molecules,
>
>It doesn't "focus energy" it just delivers energy, just as sunlight
>does.
>
Okay, I used the wrong verb, here. I should have said, deliver,
instead of focus.
>
>> why
>>couldn't a similar field, superimposed upon the electrode charge
>>cause enough random movement among the Stern layer of protium
>>nuclei to exceed the coulomb barrier and produce a fusion
>>reaction now and then?
>
>As I mentioned, there is a huge scale difference between chemical and
>nuclear energies. Now, stripping your question off superfluous
>elements, what you're asking is "why can't we heat heat the stuff
>enough so that the thermal movement will allow penetration of the
>coulomb barrier?" Well, the problem is that the deuterium (I don't
>know why you keep tlking about "protium") nuclei are held in the
>electrode with binding energies of the order of an eV, while the
>energies required to make a significant dent in the coulomb barrier
>are few orders of magnitude higher. And if you would heat up the
>deuterons to more than few eV, they wouldn't remain in the lattice.
>That's in the nutshell the problem of fusion, combining sufficient
>energies with sufficient containment.
>
I agree on the scale difference, but I am not quite ready to toss
the idea into the trash can until I am confident that random
distribution of velocity vectors can not possibly range up to
that level which might occasionally result in some fusions.
The reason I keep talking about deuterium is that fusing protium
into deuterium would obviate the need for separating heavy
hydrogen (tritium) from water. Then, deuterium-deuterium fusion
into helium 3 plus a neutron should release about 3.27 MeV of
energy. Or, deuterium-deuterium fused into hydrogen 3 + hydrogen
1 should release 4.03 MeV of energy.
>
>>
>>If a nanoparticle
>
>Sigh. Do you think that "nanoparticles" is a magical incantation:-)
>
The reason I'm interested in the nanoparticle graphite electrode
is that the Stern layer would be OUTSIDE the graphite, as
compared to INSIDE the palladium. Inside the palladium electrode
the field effect is diminished to a negligible level, but outside
the nanoparticle graphite electrode's surface the Stern Layer
might be MUCH more effective in bringing the hydrogen ions into
close proximity while energizing them with a superimposed
microwave field. Hopefully, some random velocities of these Stern
Layer ions will be great enough to overcome the coulomb barrier.
I cannot see how this could be done inside the electrode, as in
the palladium electrode approach. All that would perturb the ions
inside a palladium electrode is the thermal effect. And, as
you've pointed out, this thermal activity of the ions isn't even
close to the level required for fusion to take place.
>
>> graphite structure is used for the electrodes,
>>wouldn't it be possible for those Stern layer nuclei to move
>>toward the electrode from both sides, and perhaps some of them
>>pass through the nanoparticle electrode interstitial spaces, then
>>collide like two cars speeding toward each other?
>>
>No. More like two snails speeding toward each other.
>
Yes, out in the electrolyte, beyond the Guoy Diffuse layer
boundary the ion velocity would be quite small, but within the
Stern Layer boundary this is not so.
>
>>I realize that two cars with equal mass and equal but opposite
>>velocity vectors in a head-on collision would each experience the
>>same impulse as one car in a straight on collision with an
>>immovable object such as a concrete barrier. But, this impulse
>>would be greater than a speeding car impacting a stationary car
>>with no other constraints involved.
>
>Sure. And at room temperature it'll be orders of magnitude short of
>what's required.
>
The bell curve mean would indeed be way down in the room
temperature range, but how far out along the slope of this bell
curve would some ion energy levels extend?
>
>>
>>It seems the hydrogen nuclei would be influenced by the electrode
>>field such that the associated electrons would be polarized and
>>on the side of the nucleus most distant from the nanoparticle
>>electrode. That is, the hydrogen nuclei would effectively be in
>>an ionic state, and would collide nucleus to nucleus, with no
>>significant interference from the atomic electrons.
>>
>Do you know what the coulomb barrier is? and why do you think the
>electrons are an "interference" here. If anything, they help.
>
Yes, I know what the Coulomb barrier is, but I'm still curious as
to whether or not some form of quantum tunneling or random
distribution of velocity vector magnitudes might provide means
for breaching the Coulomb barrier under the right conditions.
>
>Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
>me...@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
>
Mati, I'm not by any means arguing that this is workable. I am
caught up in a state of curiosity about it and am simply trying
to explore all that fits into this set of ideas. You're probably
right in that it won't work, but I've got to satisfy my
curiosity, fully, before I can toss it aside.
Gordon
G=EMC^2 Glazier
know it takes pressure with great heat for fusion to start. I have a
"pulse fusion" that uses this good science and unlike a Tokamak it will
not destroy itself It needs 7 billion to be built and I guaranty
its continual operation for 75 years Bert
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
The random distributions are not a "mystery" statistical mechanics
addresses these. Check out how the fusion cross sections are
calculated, the energy/momentum distribution figures there
prominantly.
>
>The problem with hydrogen in palladium is that the hydrogen is
>inside the palladium where the electrode field is zilch. If the
>protium and deuterium ions were bound to the surface of the
>electrode in a Stern Layer the effects of a superimposed
>microwave field to the electrodes would/could be effective in
>"rattling these ions around and smacking them into each other."
Again, I addressed this. At energies orders of magnitude below those
required the hydrogen won't be confined anymore.
>This might provide enough random distribution of velocity vectors
>to put some collisions above the Coulomb Barrier momentum level.
>>
All of this can be estimated and has been done, ad nauseam. As for
"some", I'll add a comment at the end.
See above. And, again, a comment at the end.
>The reason I keep talking about deuterium is that fusing protium
>into deuterium would obviate the need for separating heavy
>hydrogen (tritium) from water.
Then you really should get better informed about the topic. The cross
sections for proton-proton fusion are many orders of magnitude smaller
than those for D-D (not to mention even D-T. In comparison to p-p
fusion, D-D is a child play. for practical purposes p-p is so close
to impossible as to be considered such.
Then, deuterium-deuterium fusion
>into helium 3 plus a neutron should release about 3.27 MeV of
>energy. Or, deuterium-deuterium fused into hydrogen 3 + hydrogen
>1 should release 4.03 MeV of energy.
>>
>>>
>>>If a nanoparticle
>>
>>Sigh. Do you think that "nanoparticles" is a magical incantation:-)
>>
>The reason I'm interested in the nanoparticle graphite electrode
>is that the Stern layer would be OUTSIDE the graphite, as
>compared to INSIDE the palladium. Inside the palladium electrode
>the field effect is diminished to a negligible level, but outside
>the nanoparticle graphite electrode's surface the Stern Layer
>might be MUCH more effective in bringing the hydrogen ions into
>close proximity while energizing them with a superimposed
>microwave field. Hopefully, some random velocities of these Stern
>Layer ions will be great enough to overcome the coulomb barrier.
>I cannot see how this could be done inside the electrode, as in
>the palladium electrode approach. All that would perturb the ions
>inside a palladium electrode is the thermal effect. And, as
>you've pointed out, this thermal activity of the ions isn't even
>close to the level required for fusion to take place.
Same is true for all you can bring to bear on the surface.
>>
>>> graphite structure is used for the electrodes,
>>>wouldn't it be possible for those Stern layer nuclei to move
>>>toward the electrode from both sides, and perhaps some of them
>>>pass through the nanoparticle electrode interstitial spaces, then
>>>collide like two cars speeding toward each other?
>>>
>>No. More like two snails speeding toward each other.
>>
>Yes, out in the electrolyte, beyond the Guoy Diffuse layer
>boundary the ion velocity would be quite small, but within the
>Stern Layer boundary this is not so.
Yes, it is most certainly so and repeating "Stern layer" as another
magical incantation won't change it. Chemical binding energies of any
sort are of the order of few eV. Those required for fusion, few keV.
Big difference.
>>
>>>I realize that two cars with equal mass and equal but opposite
>>>velocity vectors in a head-on collision would each experience the
>>>same impulse as one car in a straight on collision with an
>>>immovable object such as a concrete barrier. But, this impulse
>>>would be greater than a speeding car impacting a stationary car
>>>with no other constraints involved.
>>
>>Sure. And at room temperature it'll be orders of magnitude short of
>>what's required.
>>
>The bell curve mean would indeed be way down in the room
>temperature range, but how far out along the slope of this bell
>curve would some ion energy levels extend?
Some? Nearly indefinitely. So?
>>
>>>
>>>It seems the hydrogen nuclei would be influenced by the electrode
>>>field such that the associated electrons would be polarized and
>>>on the side of the nucleus most distant from the nanoparticle
>>>electrode. That is, the hydrogen nuclei would effectively be in
>>>an ionic state, and would collide nucleus to nucleus, with no
>>>significant interference from the atomic electrons.
>>>
>>Do you know what the coulomb barrier is? and why do you think the
>>electrons are an "interference" here. If anything, they help.
>>
>Yes, I know what the Coulomb barrier is, but I'm still curious as
>to whether or not some form of quantum tunneling or random
>distribution of velocity vector magnitudes might provide means
>for breaching the Coulomb barrier under the right conditions.
>>
Again, read something about fussion cross section calculations. Both
the momentum distribution *and* quantum tunneling are *already*
accounted for. In fact, weren't it for tunneling the cross sections
would've been way smaller.
Now, regarding the business of "some fusion events". The issue is not
and never was to get "some fusion events". The issue is to get enough
of them. Getting some is childishly simple. Fill a container with
deuterium, put in two electrodes with a potential difference between
them and raise the voltage till you get a discharge (a geiger tube
will work great) and you'll be getting fusion events. Take a tiny ion
accelerator (10-20 keV, fits on a small desktop and will work with a
TV high voltage supply) and send a beam of deuterons towards a
paladium target soaked with deuterium (or, better yet, tritium).
You'll get a shitload of fusion events. Devices like this were used
as lab neutron sources when I was a grad student and before. So
that's not what we're concerned with. What we want is to get enough
fusion events so that the energy released is larger than the energy
invested. And that's why talking about how it is not impossible that
there may be an occasional deuteron at the high end of the momentum
distribution that's fuse, once a day or once a year, is simply of no
interest. That's not what the game is about. The interest is
practical.
Jeff…Relf
not, as you said, " pressure and heat ".
What's more, to be useful, it must be continually maintained.
You don't have 7 billion to toy with,
so how could you " guarantee " your system for " 75 years " ?
Y.Porat
------------------------------
i agree that fusion forces are million times bigger than chamical or
electrical
yet:
NEVER SAY NEVER!!
you cannever know what will be the human creativity!!
the solusion could be even by 'cold fusion' if
a
we find a way to **concentrate the drving (igniting) enery)
in that case itr is a quation of qquality of concentration
and undeed in that case you might get a small scale fusion amount
it will not be the huge power station of 13 billions and much more
but one +one plus one can su, up to an amount
it is only a matter of better know how and ingenuity!!
or b
by 'cold fusion ' plus some aditional buster (may be laser or alike)
no room for over self confident people like mm who is alway
100 percent sure of himself and never any doubt !! -
no room for proffesional parrots there !!!
ATB
Y.Porat
---------------------------------"
Chris
is no switch and no wires. You just close the shade.
The bunks on those warships are lovely and comfortable not like the old days
and they even have proffessional "camp followers" for the long nights at
sea.
Not just for the officers either, they are the medical orderlies during
"action stations" and our subs never come up for air, it all made by
elecrolysis of the brine.
"Y.Porat" <y.y....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168078717.5...@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Y.Porat
Chris wrote:
> You should see our cold fusion lighting. You just cannot turn it off, there
> is no switch and no wires. You just close the shade.
>
> The bunks on those warships are lovely and comfortable not like the old days
> and they even have proffessional "camp followers" for the long nights at
> sea.
>
> Not just for the officers either, they are the medical orderlies during
> "action stations" and our subs never come up for air, it all made by
> elecrolysis of the brine.
is that supposed to be humour?
------------------------------
Y.Porat
-----------------------------
>
Howard Johnson
Anyone have any recent info on the Carbon Boron crystal fusion project
that went from Cal Tech to the University of Florida? That endeavor
was so prospective the Oil Companies killed it.
If not now, when? :)
hanson
"Howard Johnson" <potat...@rest.net> wrote in message
news:459fb...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Anyone have any recent info on the Carbon Boron crystal
> fusion project that went from Cal Tech to the University of
> Florida? That endeavor was so prospective
> the Oil Companies killed it.
>
Yeah, yeah! Like the 200 miles/gal carburetors patents
and the patents that guarantee that by adding a few
drops of 5% Methanol in water into the factory carb
will increase the mileage tenfold, reduce emissions to
nil & guarantee a non-maintenance engine condition.
The Oil companies bought up all these great patents.
After I graduated I filed 211 such patents. The oil
boys made me rich beyond my wildest dreams.
Never had to work a single day in my life thanks to
the oil industry that was trembling in their boots over
the power prospects of my patents.... ahahahaha...
Now, tj Frazir, where are you? Eat your heart out!
Thanks for the laughs, Howie... ahahaha... ahhahanson
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606&q=nuclear
Bussard on his fusion research - interesting, esp towards the end
--
Dirk
http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
http://www.resonancefm.com
hanson
news:50b7m7F...@mid.individual.net...
>>
[hanson]
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/6dc633ea0d1895a1
>
[Dirk]
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606&q=nuclear
> Bussard on his fusion research - interesting, esp towards the end
>
I hope you recognized my satiric and sarcastic tone &
meaning in my post above. These oil company buy-ups
of "successful advanced" patents are all URBAN MYTHS.
== Now to your Dr. Bussard's 1 1/2 hrs long sour grape
speech. He is mad that his govt $$funding dried up 'cuz
he didn't produces/deliver what he (probably) promised
the govt he could do. So he is pitching for new $200M
from private sector money sources. When he started to
make his pitch for money, his audience began to thin....
Basically the dude is into magnetic confinement for nuke
fusion processes. But I did hear anything new that wasn't
already in the public domain. I was sad to see this old
geriatric chum making his last hurrah...
== I would be surprised if the thin, gossamer gas fusion
method will work ultimately on an "earthly" industrial scale
and not be reserved only for stellar sized objects. I say this
objection because we know of naturally occurring Fission
reactors with dilute/low conc. but vast volumes of fissionable
materials i.e Oklo. But to get the same Fission process going
(with Uranium) on a industrial scale totally different parameters
had to be invented for/in Fermi's 1942 Chicago Carbon pile
to work. -- But such necessary, analog innovations are still
lacking for a successful FUSION process to occur. They are
still hung up on duplicating the sun....
== OTOH different routes like the cold/Fleishmann- & Sono-
fusion attempts, including the RBB (Resonant-block-bang)
experiments are constantly labored on and fiddled with. I was,
kidding about the RBB with tj Frazir a while back here in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/aebac3e11fc94dfd
There are many more such outlandish projects going on, all
the time, but most will fail and never be heard from.
== Bussard, in his fund-raiser, made one good & valid point
in which he showed that all fucking theories mean jack shit
& did not point toward any solution during his all work! All
those NG Einstein Dingleberries & QMass masters should
take heed of Bussard warning/experience, ...which were the
same that Planck uttered more than a century ago, saying:
=== "Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our
=== disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -- Max Planck
>
There is another very sad aspect to this general energy
production scheme/issue which I shall repeat here in/with
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/3a3ccce5f4485973
wherin it says:
"If the green bastards would not have stymied all nuclear
reactor developments, for the last 40 years, we would have
today plenty of cheap electricity, no rad-chem disposal problems,
we would have modern batteries and advanced capacitors in
our cars instead of gas-tanks and we would be driving in
hi-powered nonpolluting electric cars. --- In all likelihood we
would also have the H-fusion problems licked --- and we would
not be survival dependant on, and being held hostage by
Venez-Hugos, Imams, Sheiks & Nigerios.... all fomenters and
financiers of terrorism against the West ... (who has brought'em
wealth and power in the first place.... ahahahaha.... ironic, isn't it.) "
IOW, if the green cocksuckers would not have impeded
the development of nuclear reactors for the last 40 years
we would not have the issue of Anthropo Global Warming
today nor would there be world wide terrorism.
----- The green swine started all this current upheaval. ----
--------------- It's their fault. Fuck'em! -------------------
>
ahahaha... ahahahanson
>
[Dirk]
> http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
> Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
> http://www.resonancefm.com
>
[hanson]
Hey Dirk, I have a question for you, you being into Nordic/Celtic
issues. I posted it before with no response:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/acc9ae33727aa112
wherein it says: "While we are on a genealogical trip here.
Much of the British Isles and Western & Central Europe
(besides the Gauls, Slavs & the Latinos) are Celtic/Nordic.
Where did the ancestors or predecessors of the Scandinavians
immigrate from and when?"
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
There seems to have been two sources.
The indigenous peoples who have been around there for millennia, at
least since the end of the last ice age, and the IndoEuropean migrants
from (I guess) Central Asia around 5000 years ago.
Still, I'm no expert on this.
As for Bussard, one thing he is correct about and that is that Tokamak
will never work as an engineering solution.
--
Sorcerer
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote in message news:yh1oh.1397$Ul4.9@trnddc05...
| Hey Dirk, I have a question for you, you being into Nordic/Celtic
| issues. I posted it before with no response:
| http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/acc9ae33727aa112
| wherein it says: "While we are on a genealogical trip here.
| Much of the British Isles and Western & Central Europe
| (besides the Gauls, Slavs & the Latinos) are Celtic/Nordic.
| Where did the ancestors or predecessors of the Scandinavians
| immigrate from and when?"
Persia and India with the retreat of the North Polar ice cap, hunting
woolly mammoth to extinction. The Cymru (Welsh) are a small, dark-
skinned people like Indians. At least my second cousin was, I'm
not sure if he was dark from coal mining, though. :-)
Man is a great ape who almost certainly originated in Africa along
with gorilla, chimpanzee and lemur and spread out from the middle
East. Natural barriers (sea and mountain) made Europe a late place
to settle. Egypt (which is the Nile and desert), Iraq, Turkey, stop.
So he went East and later spread from there. Scandinavians would
have taken a northern route through Russia, Celts a southern route
through Greece. Time line, 10,000 years. The need to adapt
to a cold climate produced both the work ethic and intelligence,
leading to today's technology. Those who live in equatorial
regions do not need to adapt to survive.
BioFreak
NeoPax wrote:
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606&q=nuclear
> Bussard on his fusion research - interesting, esp towards the end
His paper that he said they could not find on internet
is at:
http://www.askmar.com/ConferenceNotes/2006-9%20IAC%20Paper.pdf
--
"ye mu az khers ghanimateh."
hanson
wrote in news:1wf1zzpogvdc7.1kfnwlxqfs531$.dlg@40tude.net...
> Dirk Bruere at > NeoPax wrote:
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606&q=nuclear
>> Bussard on his fusion research - interesting, esp towards the end
>
> His paper that he said they could not find on internet is at:
> http://www.askmar.com/ConferenceNotes/2006-9%20IAC%20Paper.pdf
> --
>
Thanks, Mehram. Yup, he had good reason to hide it.
See abstract ands pg 27 ff. He is using green shit
scare tactics to extract some $200 million more from
some new mooches.... ahahahahaha.... The paper is
essentially an abridged version of the speech seen in
the video. Let's face it, Bussard's highfaluting talk'n bull
apparently didn't convince too many attendants after
seeing his contraptions of 5-10 ft wide polyhedral frames
that were made from brazed copper tubing which were
covered by 4 off the self transformer windings that were
held in place by hose clamps .... ahahaha... As I said in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/d8c8b22b4ffedd09
"... and when he started to make his pitch for money,
his audience began to thin.... ahahaha... ahahahaha...
Over the years many such type projects ran across my
desk. Most of them are not cons. Their inventors have
their fixed ideas that somehow they have hit the mother
load. It is very sad. But OTOH I do respect each and
every one of these dreamers, for they are the vanguard
the expendables, the cannon fodder for/of things to come.
Thanks again, Mehram
hanson
hanson
Andro "Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_h> wrote in message
news:Zv8oh.13592$MO2....@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> w/i news:yh1oh.1397$Ul4.9@trnddc05...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/d8c8b22b4ffedd09
| Hey Dirk, I have a question for you, you being into Nordic/Celtic
| issues. I posted it before with no response:
| http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/acc9ae33727aa112
| wherein it says: "While we are on a genealogical trip here.
| Much of the British Isles and Western & Central Europe
| (besides the Gauls, Slavs & the Latinos) are Celtic/Nordic.
| Where did the ancestors or predecessors of the Scandinavians
| immigrate from and when?"
>
Persia and India with the retreat of the North Polar ice cap, hunting
woolly mammoth to extinction. The Cymru (Welsh) are a small, dark-
skinned people like Indians. At least my second cousin was, I'm
not sure if he was dark from coal mining, though. :-)
Man is a great ape who almost certainly originated in Africa along
with gorilla, chimpanzee and lemur and spread out from the middle
East. Natural barriers (sea and mountain) made Europe a late place
to settle. Egypt (which is the Nile and desert), Iraq, Turkey, stop.
So he went East and later spread from there. Scandinavians would
have taken a northern route through Russia, Celts a southern route
through Greece. Time line, 10,000 years. The need to adapt
to a cold climate produced both the work ethic and intelligence,
leading to today's technology. Those who live in equatorial
regions do not need to adapt to survive.
>
[Dirk to hanson]
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in
news:50ci9qF...@mid.individual.net...
There seems to have been two sources.
The indigenous peoples who have been around there for millennia, at
least since the end of the last ice age, and the IndoEuropean migrants
from (I guess) Central Asia around 5000 years ago.
>
[hanson]
Yes, what you guys have posted seems to be the heuristic view.
There was a TV show (BBC/History channel) recently on the
"out of Africa" notion.
Still I'd like to know what/when/ where did the difference/split
occur/evolve between the 2 main European clans, the early
Slavs and the early Nordics, both being hardy Ice-Rim people,
the latter of whose descendents have been/are ruling and
colonializing the world unmistakably for the last 2000 years,
as seen by language (English), technology, music, etc.
Also are there any remaining genes in these Ice-Rim populations
from the earlier Ice-Rim inhabitants, the Neanderthals, who got
extinct some 10KY ago, IIRC?
Let's see what the folks in soc.culture.nordic say about this issue.
hanson
Andro
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote in message news:qlcoh.1458$8B5.17@trnddc08...
Language (or etymology) and religion are the keys.
The people of the Nile had a pantheon of gods, the sun
god Ra being Numero Uno, Time (Horus) was a minor god.
Pharaohs (kings) became gods, hence the pyramids, the
most recent being the Emperor Hirohito of Japan, so the
idea continued. The Nordic, Greek and Roman gods are
also a pantheon, and of course Gesu Christi became a
god also. At one time all gods were associated with the
planets (planet means wanderer).
Shit, I could write a book on this... I don't have the time.
As to Homo Neanderthalensis, one only has to look at
prejudice as we see it today. These people were different
in more ways than we see skin colour and wide noses
as different today, and they were competitors for game.
Homo sapiens sapiens is a vicious brute; check out Saddam
Hussein, Hitler, Stalin, Andrew Jackson... the poor buggers
never stood a chance. Neither did the North American or
the Tasmanian aboriginal. We, homo sapiens stupidus,
will kill anything that is different to us. Even chimpanzees
have wars.
However, Neanderthals preceded the last Ice Age and cannot
figure into any assessment of Nordic settlements as we know
them today.
Neanderthals became extinct in Europe approximately 24,000
years ago, which is just about the onset of ice advancement.
Wackypedia says
"By 130,000 years ago, full blown Neanderthal characteristics had appeared."
That coincides with the first peak in
http://www.roperld.com/graphics/LIAInsolation.jpg
so they were hairy. They are named for finds in the Neander Valley
(Duesseldorf, Germany and I can't do umlauts).
Y'know, the right way to imagine these early settlers is
to look at the North American aboriginal. His bow, arrow,
feathered headdress, medicine man and tepee is a Neolithic
culture. Literally. His arrow head was stone, his birch bark
canoe was made of natural materials, he had no way to
smelt copper and tin into bronze, and it is not that long
ago.
Yet he had all the intelligence and materials to do so.
It takes a spark of genius by one individual to change a
culture, otherwise Homo stupidus is a sheep.
Had not the European settled with gun in hand, a tall
ship and a star to steer her by there would be no change,
and the first across the Atlantic was Eric the Red.
http://www.clubworkout.com/bonvoyage/animation/erikthered/
The mob you see writing to these newsgroups typify the
mentality of "normal", whether Einstein worshippers or
abortion objectors who'll blow up clinics.
As to genetics, I'm fair skinned, blue eyed with Welsh, French
and Nordic ancestry and fuckin' brilliant :-)
Yes, it is a heuristic view since there can be no direct
proof. We simply lack the evidence and must seek clues
where we can. I have no objection to being shown wrong,
but only if you provide the evidence. I have a photograph
(somewhere) of myself, my father, my grandfather and my
great-grandfather, and the old boy has distinct Nordic
characteristics, tall, blue-eyed and a tramp. I inherited
his wander-lust but went much further.
Latest MMX added:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/PoR/PoR.htm
BioFreak
> He is using green shit
> scare tactics to extract some $200 million more from
> some new mooches.... ahahahahaha....
I am wary more for the fact that he hasn't shown any
calculations. He complains it is difficult/impossible
to reduce hundreds of technical internal papers into a
public paper. What kind of statement is that? Could be
that's why he was proposing to "Google" guys after all.
--
"shoghAli ke az bAgh ghahr koneh manfe'ate
bAghbuneh."
hanson
message news:18n51sxx4k0rj.1dcr0okwkoojw$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 20:02:28 GMT, hanson wrote in:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/d260dfe96ef34442
>> He, Bussard, is using green shit scare tactics
>> to extract some $200 million more from
>> some new mooches.... ahahahahaha....
>
> I am wary more for the fact that he hasn't shown any
> calculations. He complains it is difficult/impossible
> to reduce hundreds of technical internal papers into a
> public paper. What kind of statement is that? Could be
> that's why he was proposing to "Google" guys after all.
> --
ahahaha.. Google or anybody who is greedy and gullible
enough. Calculations don't mean shit when he can show
off with his hardware gismos. Not showing the calcs merely
adds as an enticing frosting for his con. He said so himself.
Everybody here, his audience, even you noticed it... ahahaha..
Go have the last word on this issue. I am bored with it.
Take care, Mehram... Enjoy the now evolving MAD situation
in your own back yard. ... ahahahaha... ... Told you so!
ahahahaha.... ahahahahanson
G=EMC^2 Glazier
if it does not last 75 years. bert
Jeff…Relf
Please point me to a web page that has technology similar to yours.
Re: Your " Money Back " guarantee...
You told me:
I want 7 billion for my method(machine)
so they can have it back if it does not last 75 years.
That's only if you happen to have 7 Giga_Dollars 75 years from now !
Speaking of that...
T.J. gave me a chunk of coal for Christmas, what did you get ?