Photons only pop up when there is Matter?
dm
Pls. mention any models along the following line....
Something where photons only exist where there are matter. Meaning
before electromagnetic wave contacts with matter. It is not
electromagnetic wave but transfer of "potential" and only when
the potential catches matter that photons occur... maybe the man
who calls himself TomGee has mentioned something like this
or Fredifixx. I can only remember these two but not the details.
If there are others offering the same. Pls. mention the nicks or
websites (as well as these two self proclaimed photonic wizards).
I'm comtemplating on the possibility of an ather that is
lorentz invariant and having no privilege frame. This means
we may have to do away with the idea of disembodied
electromagnetic wave or even material aether to carry
them by proposing different ways of what and how electromagnetic
wave really travel.. like the photon/electromagnetic wave only
existing when there is contact with matter. Meaning while
it is propagating. It is not em wave but potential transfer of
some kind. This means a material aether is not needed.
But an new non-material aether that is also GR friendly as it
solidifies the geometry. Come on. Do you really think geometry alone
can do all those GR tricks. I mean, there has to be energy
substrate to power the geometry enough to cause all these
black holes and other mind bending stuff to even exist. The
same energy substrate can for example give us straight
line because there is no reason for nature to make straight
lines straight unless something conspires for it to be that way
and thats the energy substrate powering up space and time.
Einstein proposes disembodied geometry because he
doesn't know the energy details of it. In the modern times,
we must produce Super GR. Let me end by this Einstein
quote:
"As to the part which the new Aether is to play in the physics
of the future we are not yet clear. We know that it determines
the metrical relations in the Spacetime continuum, e.g. the
configurative possibilities of solid bodies as well as the
gravitational
fields; but we do not know whether it has an essential share
in the structure of the electrical elementary particles
constituting Matter."
dm
Sam Wormley
1. photons are emitted (by charged particles)
2. photons propagate at c
3. photons are absorbed (by charged particles)
dm
How about this:
1. photons are emitted (by charges particles)
2. electric potential travels in the aether (not photons)
3. charged particles acquire the potential (no photons)
Notice that photons "can" occur only when charges are de-exciting.
This means at other times. Photons may not be photons but
something else and their mode of travel in the aether is not
electromagnetic which then doesn't require solid static
aether since transverse wave can only propagate in solid
and not liquid.
Intermission: Instead of calling it aether or Void or Primordial
substance... each of this term is a problem since it doesn't describe
it. Let's call it temporarily as Chaos pending more official accurate
term. Remember order came from chaos as per EL specification.
Now let's add to this. Chaos (instead of Aether) lattice may occur,
a lattice that is lorentz invariant like quantum fluctuations and also
obeying SR framing program subroutines. Now the electric
potential can travel in the lattice. It only becomes
electromagnetic and photon only when there is matter!
Actually I heard this from a physicist but want to explore
if his idea is sound before sharing his entire stuff which
may not be all right (perhaps 50% only or less).
If I have time today. I'll review Tomgee and the equally
adventurous Freddifizzx for their similar (?) idea about this.
Or others I may not be aware off (pls. reveal yourself or prv
email if you have similar model).
dm
G=EMC^2 Glazier
Best to keep in mind two electrons repel each other by the exchange of
photons driving the two electrons apart.,and opposite charges to come
together. Photons as used by nature to create magnetic fields are called
virtual photons. They can't be seen but are measurable. These last
thoughts gave me my "Spin is in theory" Bert
sophie
In the world of this physicist. Photons only occur when there is
contact with matter esp. when the charged particles are
"deccelerating" which "sheds their kinetic energy" (kinetic
energy acquired in the aether of chaos continuum. In the
case of it being force carrier. His interpretation if I got it
right is that two electrons repelling each other is by
exchange of "potentials", not photons. He said something
like this "It occurred to no one that the medium itself in part
consists of the propagation of potentials, that this propagation
is one of electric energy, and it is this that performs the
propagation of the stimulus of Light if there is Matter present
in the field - Matter that can accelerate and decelerate. The
medium itself is flux and in flux." He is referring to the
medium as aether that is not material and frameless obeying
SR.
dm
malibu
dm wrote:
> Pls. mention any models along the following line....
>
> Something where photons only exist where there are matter. Meaning
> before electromagnetic wave contacts with matter. It is not
> electromagnetic wave but transfer of "potential" and only when
> the potential catches matter that photons occur... maybe the man
> who calls himself TomGee has mentioned something like this
> or Fredifixx. I can only remember these two but not the details.
> If there are others offering the same. Pls. mention the nicks or
In the Galaxy Model for the atom
http://users.accesscomm.ca/john
I have found that photons and quasars are a match.
The quasars build slowly at the centers of galaxies
and are ejected when they reach a certain size
in pairs at about 9000 km/sec (see Halto Arp's work)
It looks to me that a photon is really a 'something'.
Sorry.
John
Tom Potter
"Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:NOJEg.138471$1i1.108780@attbi_s72...
1. Apparent cause events occur at some point.
2. Apparent effect events occur at some point.
3. A sentient being performs an auto-correlation between the set of events.
4. The time interval obtained (As quantized with observer's clock.)
multiplied by "C" (A constant that relates a time interval to a king's body
parts.)
is the apparent space between the point of the apparent causes and the
apparent effects.
5. The degree of correlation is an indication of the confidence
one can place in assuming that the effects are driven by the causes.
This correlation is affected by the precision of the observer's clock,
the clock's environment with respect to the observer
[Distance (Hubble Effect), velocity (Doppler Effect), acceleration (Galileo
Effect), etc.]
The observers clock is used to quantize apparent spaces,
and all other physical properties.
The events are ordered on exponential changes that are occurring
in the observer's environment, ultimately the exponential changes
relating bosons and fermions (Entropy).
The exponential function occurs when the rate of change in a population
is a function of the population vs. time
(Clock counts ordered on some reference exponential change.).
In other words, the more rats you have
the more rats there will be in a nurturing environment,
and the fewer rats you will have in a non-nurturing environment
after some time period.
(The more bosons you have in a boson nurturing environment,
the more bosons you will have after some time period.
The bottom line is that the universe is an environment
populated by bosons and fermions,
and the bosons are winning (At this time.),
but as population changes change the environment,
and as no population can grow forever unless the
environment remains nurturing forever,
this will change at some point.
Note that exact exponential changes CANNOT occur
UNLESS an environment is STATIC.
In other words, an environment cannot modulate the
populations within the environment if it is static,
and population changes cannot occur in a static environment.
To make things happen, you have to have a real world "e"
that is difference from the "e" of maths.
And necessarily you have to have a real world "pi"
that is difference from the "pi" of maths.
It is easy to visualize exponential changes from one toward infinity,
and from N to zero,
but how does a population go from zero to one?
Which came first,
the dinosaur or the egg?
It appears that the egg must have come first,
and at some point in an environment change,
the egg morphed into dinosaur number one,
and that as more environment changes occured,
the dinosaur continued to morph
into chicken number one, etc. etc.
For more details on this,
visit my web site and download the article
"Uniting the four forces".
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
malibu
two orders greater than matter.
They are a different material in some way.
And they move at speed through the galactic soup- at
9000 km/sec according to Arp.
Quasars are definitely a big
glob of energy, and so are photons.
They are simply a conglomeration of something having
different properties than matter.
John
Galaxy Model
http://users.accesscomm.ca/john
Y.Porat
The parrot Wormley
if afraid to say that 'charged particles' are MATTER
( with mass!!!)
ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------------------
Y.Porat
no physical entuty tha t moves in a straight line
can produce any attraction force !!!
ATB
Y.Porat
-------------------------
Eric Gisse
Define "straight line".
>
> ATB
> Y.Porat
> -------------------------
Y.Porat
straight line is a s defined i basic geometry and engineering
if you would lik eit more clear:
if you will make a tangentalline to it (i think tangental is not the
90 deg perpendicular to)
so if you will draw a tagnetal line at any of its opoints it will be
overlaping
the line itself
did i made mysef clear enough??]so
it is different from a curved line that you can draw a tangent to it
and that tangent will not overlap th eline itself
btw i was surprised by the laps of time between i posted my post
and your reply
it looks like an online coversation ......
ATB
Y.Porat
----------------------
it is not Einsteins 'Geodedics line'
> >
> > ATB
> > Y.Porat
> > -------------------------
Y.Porat
and btw Eric
from the timje laps that you got my answer
you can realize how fast i type( as non a native English speaker)
and know why i make so many spelling-typing mistaks
actually i notic e most of them- but ignore them
(i was born lazy ....(:-)
ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------------------
Eric Gisse
Y.Porat wrote:
> Eric Gisse wrote:
> > Y.Porat wrote:
> > > G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
> > > > Sam A photon is a particle of light,but nature uses them for "force"
> > > > Best to keep in mind two electrons repel each other by the exchange of
> > > > photons driving the two electrons apart.,and opposite charges to come
> > > > together. Photons as used by nature to create magnetic fields are called
> > > > virtual photons. They can't be seen but are measurable. These last
> > > > thoughts gave me my "Spin is in theory" Bert
> > > -----------------------
> > > no physical entuty tha t moves in a straight line
> > > can produce any attraction force !!!
> >
> > Define "straight line".
> >
> ------------------------
> straight line is a s defined i basic geometry and engineering
> if you would lik eit more clear:
Oh, so you mean a geodesic? Straight lines on flat paper are not the
same as straight lines passing by a massive body and they are also not
the same as a straight line on a sphere.
[snip unintelligble stuff]
Y.Porat
if you like as a straight line on a paper
or if you line -- the path of the photon movement
and now ??
how about getting further with it
if you think that a photon that moves in straight line can do any
attraction force
than we have nothing more to discuss about it
because we had enough of these discussion before
and i leave it to the new geenrations with some more open minds
Y.Porat
--------------------------
G=EMC^2 Glazier
Newton could not figure it out,and Einstein concave space(geometry) is
still the best. My convex space gives space expansion,and I use it to
push galaxies apart.(universe expansion) It is my "concave,convex
theory". It gives gravity a pull(attraction) and a push(repulsion)
force. My theory someday will be used as the first law of the
cosmos. For magnetic force of attraction my "Spin is in theory" takes
in attraction over distance. Bert
Y.Porat
sio you agree that it is not anything that moves in stright lines
have a look about my Circlon
that i suggest is the maker of both
matter and forces
and thjat i s one of the reasons that you dont have force that is
actually
sourcing from matter
somy circlon ahs an advantage on your sugestion
since it is an suggested anser to both
structure of matter and
force making
ATB
Y.Porat
----------------------------
G=EMC^2 Glazier
needs a curve. When looking at the lines of force of a magnet,you will
see a curving outward(repulsion) and a curving inward for attraction.
Push and Pull + and - My theory tells you that nature does
balance all forces and that means gravity as well So where is my
Nobel? Bert
Eric Gisse
Which one? They are different.
>
> and now ??
> how about getting further with it
> if you think that a photon that moves in straight line can do any
> attraction force
> than we have nothing more to discuss about it
Since you reject all 20th century theoretical and experimental physics,
I agree. Discussion implies both sides understand what is being
discussed.
>
> because we had enough of these discussion before
> and i leave it to the new geenrations with some more open minds
I'm 22.
Unless you think mathematics and physics is going to regress to 19th
century levels in less than 30 years....
>
> Y.Porat
> --------------------------
Traveler
>I'm 22.
ahahaha... Mati Meron likes them young, I see. ahahaha... AHAHAHA...
ahahaha...
Louis Savain
Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
G=EMC^2 Glazier
energy. Go by when not needed. Its all part of natures balancing at.
Fits well in EM only nature uses virtual photons there. Sam are you
reading this. Its even in Google Bert
malibu
He has written me and stated he now thinks the
quasars are emitted at c and slow down to
a stop and turn into galaxies.
I wonder what happened to his 9000 km/sec figure
he told me before?
How could they slow down once travelling at
near c?
I'm going to stick with the first scenario- where
quasars move at 9000 km/sec.
If we posit a Le Sage type gravity in which matter
absorbs from all three planes, perhaps light absorbs from only
two planes and *has no inertia* in the third plane!
It does, however, have inertia in the other two
planes which is given off when it
is absorbed.
Sam Wormley
No... I'm not reading this.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
as big a role in the macro realm as electron clouds play in the atomic
realm. free electrons give reflected light so dark objects are visible.
I did send you a fast picture of photons coming out of a free electron
cloud,but you could not grasp how amazing this was. Again it was not in
Google. Go figure bert
Sam Wormley
Not you posted a bogus picture that you misrepresented (either out
of ignorance or fraudulently) violating the rule of a text only
newsgroup!
Y.Porat
Eric Gisse wrote:
> Y.Porat wrote:
> > Eric Gisse wrote:
> > > Y.Porat wrote:
> > > > Eric Gisse wrote:
> > > > > Y.Porat wrote:
> > > > > > G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > Define "straight line".
> > > > >
> > > > ------------------------
> > > the same as a straight line on a sphere.
> > >
> > >-----------------------------
> > if you like as a straight line on a paper
> > or if you line -- the path of the photon movement
>
> Which one? They are different.
>
> >
> > and now ??
> > how about getting further with it
> > if you think that a photon that moves in straight line can do any
> > attraction force
> > than we have nothing more to discuss about it
>
> Since you reject all 20th century theoretical and experimental physics,
> I agree. Discussion implies both sides understand what is being
> discussed.
>
> >
> > because we had enough of these discussion before
> > and i leave it to the new geenrations with some more open minds
>
> I'm 22.
>
> Unless you think mathematics and physics is going to regress to 19th
> century levels in less than 30 years....
you are wrong if you think that i dismiss all modern physics !!
Newton said once (in clumsy stanslation of trnsalation...)
i could see further away *because i was standing on the soulders of
giants' (.......)
even je didnt invent the wheedl from scratch
but there was something else
he didnt take and swolow **anything that was before him**
as a parrot that you and others are he has some mind of himself as
well!!
so he sorted the 'knowledge he had before and aded on it
and threw away waht was wrong
and as for little me i try todo the same:
fir instance
Einstiens E=mc^2 was for me and most people momentous for the advance
of scince
and here comes the suprprise for you ;
imho his 'curved sapce time' was a big FLOPP
space is nothing and it cannot be neither curved nor shmerved
the trick of circular motion is built in in some very basic specific
particles
that move naturally in curved lines
WILE ALL THE OTHER BIG PARTICLES MOVE INPERFECT STRAIGHT LINES!!
so you say how come that starange combination
or how is the harmoney between those that move ij curved lines
and those that move in stright lines??
i am not goint to spoon feed you again about it
because spoon feeding i s not appreciated enough.....
(sort of easy coming easy going!!
only if you sweat on it you will appreciate it )
butr as i know you you are not the character that will do any
sweating
you preffere to ride on other sweating donkeys (:-)
(not to mension the nast word - a parasite ..)
ie to leave the naive creative people do the sweating job while you
and otrhers
will come later and collect the crops !!
ATB
Y.Porat
--------------------------
Eric Gisse
[...]
Saying that you dismiss modern physics sort of implies that you
understand it - which you don't.
I would say "reject" more accurately encapsulates your views.
Y.Porat
Thanks
i ddint say i reject all of it
i said some of it
and i agve a specific exaple of(imho) a huge wast of time and human
resourses
by the 'curved space - time' idea
accoding to it sapce is curved next to matter
so it is actually devious
because it is actually matter that does the trick
space does nothing but hostimg matetr
BYE
Y.Porat
----------------
Y.P
------------------
Eric Gisse
See?
You reject GR because you don't like the concept of curved space
regardless of the fact that general relativity is the most sucessful
theory of gravitation EVER.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
presented was a million times faster than what a strobe could do You
think it was trick photography.With your Google brain I might as well
showed it to a parrot Bert
Sam Wormley
I think it is a fake, Herb! If you detail the experimental setup....
hanson
wrote in news:22873-450...@storefull-3331.bay.webtv.net...
>
[Sam Wormley to Glaser]
Bert, you posted a bogus picture that you misrepresented
(either out of ignorance or fraudulently) violating the rule of
a text only newsgroup!
>
Sam never mind the NG rules. Herbie is probably too stupid
to be fraudulent, although that peculiar streak runs stereotypically
deep in his religious persuasion.... ahahaha... AHAHAHA...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/7afed9e32655d5a3
See url... and if you get his "strobe picture" then process it,
contrast it in Photoshop etc and you'll see that Herbie did cut
off the sides of the original photo and glued into onto black
paper and re-took the pix to give the impression that the rays
do stop ~ 1.5" away from the glass. You can clearly see the
different blacks in the old and new backgrounds.... ahahahaha....
>
[Bert to Sam]
Herbie, forget the insults and advice Sam gave to and
also what I just have said to Sam. Herbie, what you just
said is all good and right und fully acceptable because
you, Bert, have stated in YOUR own words :
::B:: "I have had little or no formal education"
However you, Bert, also posted
::B:: "I do know how every thing works,
::B:: and pass this information on"
::B:: "Why.. am I not loved by all?" Bert
Now then Bert, since you "know" and you would like
to be "loved", you will be so, AFTER you "pass on"
------ this answer to why ------
"...the USA, which is paying to Israel 3-7 Billion $$$US tax
money each year for the last 60 years, and an equal $$
amount to the ass-venters to placate and pacify them so
that they don't continue to kick Jew ass, begs the question:
==== What are all these BILLIONS of US tax-payer dollars
buying the American public, besides continuous terrorism,
mayhem and war where Jews are being connected to or
involved in ? --- What good or benefit has come in return to
the American taxpayers from Israel for all that tax money that
came off the tables from poor American families?"
------- answer that, oye-weh-Bert -------
hanson
Y.Porat
Eric Gisse wrote:
> Y.Porat wrote:
> > Eric Gisse wrote:
> > > Y.Porat wrote:
> > > > Eric Gisse wrote:
> > > > > Y.Porat wrote:
you forgot that the gravitation enigmas is not considered by serious
scintist as solved ??
so as partial solusion is actually by the shwartzshield theory
that theory actually can live without curved spacetime
because it isa ctually not space dependant but mass dependant
so mass is actually the real actor of gravitatin
and as th etitle of this tread garvitation is only next mass !!
or mass hidden somewere in a distant location
ATB
Y.Porat
------------------
Eric Gisse
I know more about the topic than you. I'm perfectly aware that dark
matter is an odd problem for general relativity. However gravitational
lensing shows there is mass there. Either that or something really
fucked up is going on.
However, just because there are a few open questions does not mean GR
is a flop like you want to believe.
>
> so as partial solusion is actually by the shwartzshield theory
> that theory actually can live without curved spacetime
Shwartzshield theory? Jesus christ.
As usual, you fuck up something utterly trivial. The only possibily
relevant thing is the *Schwarzschild* (notice the spelling) solution to
the GR field equations for a spherically symmetric, static object in
vacuum.
>
> because it isa ctually not space dependant but mass dependant
> so mass is actually the real actor of gravitatin
> and as th etitle of this tread garvitation is only next mass !!
> or mass hidden somewere in a distant location
Since you have no education in physics and routinely fuck up simple
things, I am going to once again ask that you shut the hell up.
You were once an engineer. But you never were a physicist. Stop trying.
It is pathetic.
>
> ATB
> Y.Porat
> ------------------
G=EMC^2 Glazier
Sam Wormley
> Sam Reality is it would be impossible to fake my fast pictures. Bert
>
Herb--you certainly give new meaning to the word "Reality". The image
is bogus and you can not articulate the setup in which you claim it
was taken.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
see your resentment as a form of jealousy. I should be flattered,but
reality is you two are just a joke Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Bert
Sam Wormley
No--I'm simply challenging you on a claim you can't back up, Herb.
Sorcerer
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" <herbert...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27185-450...@storefull-3332.bay.webtv.net...
| Sam & hanson You both just don't know how clever,and inventive I am. I
| see your resentment as a form of jealousy. I should be flattered,but
| reality is you two are just a joke Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Bert
|
hanson jealous of you? That's a good one, a jackal is jealous of a mouse.
Son, if you don't like being eaten alive scurry back to your nest, or as
Harry Truman said: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".
Androcles
hanson
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/9d139adf24f425c5
Herbie, why should we have resentment and be jealous?
We know that you are clever and inventive.
Yes, Hebie, you can flatter yourself because you, Bert,
have stated in YOUR own words that:
::B:: "I have had little or no formal education"
However you, Bert, also posted
::B:: "I do know how every thing works,
::B:: and pass this information on"
::B:: "Why.. am I not loved by all?" Bert
>
Now then Bert, since you "know" and you would like
to be "loved", you will be so, AFTER you "pass on"
Y.Porat
lets se e who i s pathetic
your claimes that E=mc^2
is not valid in a gravitiaional field
so just prove it
or at leat bring a serious quote to veryfy your above claim!
Y.P
-----------------------------
G=EMC^2 Glazier
have the wit to lesson to anything that is not in Google Sad but so
very true Bert
G=EMC^2 Glazier
colors. Hanson was always a joke.Ha Ha Ha I even feel bad that Sam did
not get the picture go figue. No surprise to me that Hanson would get in
his bigoted two cents. Reality is I am a confirmed atheist. My love for
science created a hate for all Gods. Heaven and Hell are two crazy
houses,and God is 100% "hocus pocus" Bert
Sorcerer
| Andocles I'm not taking heat from Sam he is just showing his true
| colors. Hanson was always a joke.Ha Ha Ha
Get something right, son. Do not judge a book by its cover.
Wormley is a joke, hanson has a pretty good idea of what's he's
talking about.
Androcles
Sam Wormley
Being an accomplished photographer, I conclude the image is bogus
and you can't even articulate the setup in which you claim it was
taken, Herb.
hanson
wrote in news:24574-450...@storefull-3334.bay.webtv.net...
> Sam A picture speaks for itself in over a thousand words.
> You do not have the wit to lesson to anything that is not
> in Google Sad but so very true Bert
>
Herbie, Herbie, Herbie, you are not in a position to
give a lesson to Sam about anything because YOU,
Bert, have stated in YOUR own words that:
::B:: "I have had little or no formal education"
However, to your credit, you, Bert, also posted that
hanson
wrote in message news:24573-450...@storefull-3334.bay.webtv.net...
Herbie, Herbie, Herbie, your whining to others with your
pants down does not make you "loved by all"... and Hebie,
no atheist would say "go figure" and no atheist would say
"bigoted' when got caught with his pants down, like you
just were.... ahahahaha.... because, Herbie, YOU have
stated in YOUR own words that:
::B:: Being Jewish I know this is so very true.
::B:: "We do need the help of Israel to help us"
::B:: "I stuck up for Israel"
Jeff…Relf
I am a confirmed atheist. My love for science created a hate for all Gods.
....
God is 100% "hocus pocus"
Like it or not, your land _Lord_ ( including the state ) is one of your gods.
Like a farmer, god is whatever devil happens to be tending you like a crop.
He ( or it ) created you so that he could consume you.
NegEntropy ( a.k.a. infinite and eternal ignitions ) is the Top_Devil_God;
because your consumption consumes you, to live fast is to die fast.
Eric Gisse
a) The concept does not exist in Newton. Just keep that in mind.
b) Energy is a loosely defined quantity in general relativity. It
exists, but it is metric dependant while E=mc^2 is an invariant derived
from special relativity. You want a general function of E for any
metric? Ain't gonna happen.
Look up the Komar integral.
You are not a physicist. Nor do you have a chance of becoming one at
this point. You can't even learn to spell some basic english words
after several years of exposure to them. Photon? Science? Mass? Yea
those are tough.
> Y.P
> -----------------------------
Y.Porat
Eric Gisse wrote:
> Y.Porat wrote:
> > Eric Gisse wrote:
> > > > You were once an engineer. But you never were a physicist. Stop trying.
> > > It is pathetic.
> > -------------------------
> > lets se e who i s pathetic
> >
> > your claimes that E=mc^2
> > is not valid in a gravitiaional field
> >
> > so just prove it
> > or at leat bring a serious quote to veryfy your above claim!
>
> a) The concept does not exist in Newton. Just keep that in mind.
>
> b) Energy is a loosely defined quantity in general relativity. It
> exists, but it is metric dependant while E=mc^2 is an invariant derived
> from special relativity. You want a general function of E for any
> metric? Ain't gonna happen.
i whant nothing little demagoge student
who never learned about honestyn in his university
i whant only evidence to your claim that
E=mc^2
is not valid in a gravitational field
thats all and dont walk around the bush in order to cheat
of which until cheating is your only experties )
bring the above evidence** other than just yours**
EVIDENCE FROM OTHER SCIENTISTS NOT STUDENTS !!
TIA
Y.Porat
-------------------------------
Y.Porat
Y.Porat wrote:
> Eric Gisse wrote:
> > Y.Porat wrote:
> > > Eric Gisse wrote:
> > > > > You were once an engineer. But you never were a physicist. Stop trying.
> > > > It is pathetic.
> > > -------------------------
> > > lets se e who i s pathetic
> > >
and about your Kmar here is a quote from Google about it:
----------
12.1 The Komar integral for spacetimes with Killing vectors
Although the Komar integral (and, in general, the linkage (16) for some
) does not satisfy our general requirements discussed in Section 4.3.1,
and it does not always give the standard values in specific situations
(see for example the 'factor-of-two anomaly' or the examples
below), in the presence of a Killing vector the Komar integral, built
from the Killing field, could be a very useful tool in practice. (For
Killing fields the linkage reduces to the Komar integral for any .)
One of its most important properties is that in vacuum depends only on
the homology class of the 2-surface (see for example [387]): If and
are any two 2-surfaces such that for some compact 3-dimensional
hypersurface on which the energy-momentum tensor of the matter fields
is vanishing, then . In particular, the Komar integral for the static
Killing field in the Schwarzschild spacetime is the mass parameter of
the solution for any 2-surface surrounding the black hole, but it is
zero if does not.
On the other hand [371], the analogous integral in the
Reissner-Nordström spacetime on a metric 2-sphere of radius is ,
which deviates from the generally accepted round-sphere value .
Similarly, in Einstein's static universe for the spheres of radius
in a hypersurface is zero instead of the round sphere result , where
is the energy density of the matter and is the cosmological constant.
-----------------------
now what the hell is here the evidence that E=mc^2
is not valid in a gravitational field ??
Y.Porat
--------------------------
Eric Gisse
Y.Porat wrote:
[...]
> now what the hell is here the evidence that E=mc^2
> is not valid in a gravitational field ??
Wow you actually looked it up, thats more effort than I expected you to
expend.
If you integrate over a hypersurface that extends to infinity, you get
an expression for energy that isn't even fucking close to E=mc^2.
>
> Y.Porat
> --------------------------
Y.Porat
littl e 22 years old Nazi shit student
do you undesrand what you are talking here??
do you think you can fool everybody forever ???
justr go intgreate your fucken hyperface to infinity
and swolow up any garbage theory
and cheat youself and not others
E=mc^2 is still not refutable by crap theoriries that have not justied
themselves yet
so in short
a nazi shit little nazi crook is not anymore a partner fo r physical
discussion with me
not to speak the roll of suoperviser of this ng
had every one here knewn BEFORE ** who realy you are **
no one would have respoded a single shit word on you !!!
BYE
Y.P
-------------------
>
> >
> > Y.Porat
> > --------------------------
Eric Gisse
Y.Porat wrote:
> Eric Gisse wrote:
> > Y.Porat wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > now what the hell is here the evidence that E=mc^2
> > > is not valid in a gravitational field ??
> >
> > Wow you actually looked it up, thats more effort than I expected you to
> > expend.
> >
> > If you integrate over a hypersurface that extends to infinity, you get
> > an expression for energy that isn't even fucking close to E=mc^2.
> >-----------------
> littl e 22 years old Nazi shit student
>
> do you undesrand what you are talking here??
More or less.
>
> do you think you can fool everybody forever ???
No. I can only reasonably expect to fool some of the people most of the
time. I looked into this Goebbels fellow and he had some interesting
ideas.
> justr go intgreate your fucken hyperface to infinity
> and swolow up any garbage theory
> and cheat youself and not others
>
> E=mc^2 is still not refutable by crap theoriries that have not justied
> themselves yet
General relativity, the best theory of gravitation ever made, is a crap
theory?
You do understand that Einstein was the author of both special *and*
general relativity, right? No, of course you don't
You do understand that special relativity is a subset of general
relativity and is applicable only in certain circumstances, right? No,
of course you don't.
You do understand that special relativity is not a theory of
gravitation, right? No, of course not! You don't know jack about shit
because you have no idea what you are talking about.
You were never a physicist. You do not have any education in physics.
Stop pretending you are knowledgable about a topic you have no
understanding of.
>
>
> so in short
> a nazi shit little nazi crook is not anymore a partner fo r physical
> discussion with me
Waaahhhhh
Nazi this Nazi that. You don't have any idea of what it means to be a
Nazi, do you?
>
> not to speak the roll of suoperviser of this ng
>
> had every one here knewn BEFORE ** who realy you are **
> no one would have respoded a single shit word on you !!!
I yam what I yam.
RP
dm wrote:
> Pls. mention any models along the following line....
>
> Something where photons only exist where there are matter. Meaning
> before electromagnetic wave contacts with matter. It is not
> electromagnetic wave but transfer of "potential" and only when
> the potential catches matter that photons occur... maybe the man
> who calls himself TomGee has mentioned something like this
> or Fredifixx. I can only remember these two but not the details.
> If there are others offering the same. Pls. mention the nicks or
> websites (as well as these two self proclaimed photonic wizards).
> I'm comtemplating on the possibility of an ather that is
> lorentz invariant and having no privilege frame. This means
> we may have to do away with the idea of disembodied
> electromagnetic wave or even material aether to carry
> them by proposing different ways of what and how electromagnetic
> wave really travel.. like the photon/electromagnetic wave only
> existing when there is contact with matter. Meaning while
> it is propagating. It is not em wave but potential transfer of
> some kind. This means a material aether is not needed.
> But an new non-material aether that is also GR friendly as it
> solidifies the geometry. Come on. Do you really think geometry alone
> can do all those GR tricks. I mean, there has to be energy
> substrate to power the geometry enough to cause all these
> black holes and other mind bending stuff to even exist. The
> same energy substrate can for example give us straight
> line because there is no reason for nature to make straight
> lines straight unless something conspires for it to be that way
> and thats the energy substrate powering up space and time.
> Einstein proposes disembodied geometry because he
> doesn't know the energy details of it. In the modern times,
> we must produce Super GR. Let me end by this Einstein
> quote:
>
> "As to the part which the new Aether is to play in the physics
> of the future we are not yet clear. We know that it determines
> the metrical relations in the Spacetime continuum, e.g. the
> configurative possibilities of solid bodies as well as the
> gravitational
> fields; but we do not know whether it has an essential share
> in the structure of the electrical elementary particles
> constituting Matter."
>
> dm
I once posted a modified version of the Feynman/Wheeler "Absorber
Theory". The only difference was in the interpretation of the retarded
wave. In my version the waves are all advanced xor all retarded,
depending upon which direction in time you are moving. There is no need
to split the wave into advanced and retarded components as Wheeler
suggested, and that approach did prove to be plagued with difficulties
for Feynman, even outright contradictions. The idea originated from
the fact that Maxwell's equations are time symmetric. Thus a correct
description of em radiation would have to work equally as well in
reverse time. With the advent of photon theory (introduced by Einstein
in his treatment of the photoelectric effect) the notion of light
existing in the form of discrete particles was hard to maneuver around.
The difficulty that Feynman saw was providing a reason for the photon
to be absorbed by an atom without the source atom having some sort of
foreknowledge of it's whereabouts. His solution involved a retarded
wave providing that information to the source. His only justification
for this was the time asymmetric nature of Maxwell's equations. Given
the notion of single quanta of energy originating in one place and
terminating in another, this seems to be the only rational solution.
But when we discard the premise that a photon is a particle, we are
free to explore an entirely wavelike interpretation of radiation.
If we suppose that a "photon" propagates radially from a source atom,
as a wave, then the only way to obtain the effect of the absorption of
an equal energy by some other atom, is to assume a superposition of
waves and the tendency of the other atom to similarly maintain discrete
energy levels. In other words, the absorption of a photon involves an
interference pattern produced by the ambient radiation field. When a
photon's worth of energy is absorbed it is always countered by the loss
of the same amount of energy somewhere else, simply as a matter of
global energy conservation. The incoming photon can be Fourier
transformed into components originating from very many different
sources. This gives the illusion of a particle propagating through
space in a definite path.
This also gives us time reversibility of the events. As that atom emits
the same photon in reverse time, that photon splits into components
which are absorbed by many other atoms. This behavior easily explains
the success of the sum-over-histories approach of Feynman's in his QED
theory.
The biggest problem with the photon-as-a-particle theory is that
whether an electron gains or loses energy via interaction with the
photon, this depends entirely upon the observer's frame of reference.
The relativity of the situation requires that a photon sometimes
transmit energy from the receiving atom to the sending atom, which
would require the propagation of energy backward through time, and
apparently also requiring the existence of negative photons. If on the
other hand we approach em wave phenomena from the perspective of low
frequency radio waves, then the discreetness of the energies
transmitted is no longer a factor. What we witness in this realm is
precisely what I outlined above for photon exchange. Em radiation is
simply propagational delay in the electromagnetic forces between
charged particles, propagating spherically from many point sources and
superposing. From this reference point, when taken as premises, we can
actually derive my statements above about the discrete energies of the
atoms being the source of Einstein's illusion that photons were
particles.
I have also derived the photelectric equation several times in this
group without having to assume anytihing resembling photons. Classical
em waves are entirely sufficient to derive that effect. In addition I
waged a personal war against the so-called "photon counting
experiments", most of which involve green light and a photocathode in a
device designed specifically for the purpose of counting photons. My
conclusion about the device: It only counted photoelectrons, while
simply assuming that the photon energy causing that ejection derived
entirely from the source of green light provided. In other words the
argument for the device is as circular as any argument could possibly
be. It simply does not count photons, period.
I've posted so many arguments against photon theory here that I can't
even remember them all. I've also posted detailed classical
explanations of every behavior of light that I am aware of.
Richard Perry
Tom Potter
"God" is a pseudo-force,
that has been built up by historical correlations,
that is called into play when the normal senses and correlations
are unable to resolve an approach/avoidance situation.
Maybe science (Or more correctly engineering)
is your God. (People do more engineering than science in stressful
situations,
particularly if the stressful situation will have to be resolved in short
order.)
Science is more of a long term approach to relieve possible stressful
situations,
that may, or mat not come into play.)
Plants are hardwired to approach pleasure.
Animals are hardwired to approach pleasure
and to avoid pain.
The "force" curve associated with pain avoidance
is steeper than the curve associated with pleasure seeking.
If the pleasure seeking force is greater
than the pain avoidance force at the point of contact,
or if no pain avoidance force is operative,
the animal partakes of the pleasure.
If the pain avoidance force is greater
than the pleasure seeking force at the point of contact,
the animal vacillates about the point where the forces are equal,
and eventually other factors enter the picture to modulate
the particular force directed to/from the point of
possible pain or pleasure.
When some point (In time or space)
has only a pain force associated with it,
and the pain is within the tolerance level of the animal,
they accept the pain, and go about their business.
When some point (In time or space)
has only a pain force associated with it,
and the pain is intolerable,
(Cancer, death of a loved one, etc.)
people "leave the scene"
in an effort to reduce their pain.
In other words, they navigate in time and space
to find relief.
Some find refuge in science,
but most find refuge in religion, family, friends, strangers, mind control,
neurosis and psychosis.
I dare say that the best hierarchy in finding relief from
unbearable pain is
mind control
religion
family
friends
science
strangers
neurosis
psychosis,
in this order.
Note that anticipated pain and pleasure
controls the responses of animals,
rather than actual pain and pleasure.
The bottom line is that religions serve several useful puposes,
and if they diid not exist, at times people would have
stress overload, and probably go into shock
like opposums, etc.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Warning: Do not use Ultimate-Anonymity
They are worthless spammers that are running a scam.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
p-lanes that crashed "ALLAH I'll get all on Earth. Bert
zzbu...@netscape.net
Pictures don't speak, which is the reason digital was invented,
since digital does it all.
hanson
in news:45057842$0$19659$8826...@free.teranews.com...
to instigate disharmony. YOU are an evil instigator, Tom... just like
all those ashkeNAZI instigators that you so condemn. Only you are
small fry and you don't make any money at it..... while they do.....
>
> "G=EMC^2 Glazier" <herbert...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:24573-450...@storefull-3334.bay.webtv.net...
>> Andocles I'm not taking heat from Sam he is just showing his true
>> colors. Hanson was always a joke.Ha Ha Ha I even feel bad that Sam did
>> not get the picture go figue. No surprise to me that Hanson would get in
>> his bigoted two cents. Reality is I am a confirmed atheist. My love for
>> science created a hate for all Gods. Heaven and Hell are two crazy
>> houses,and God is 100% "hocus pocus" Bert
>
> "God" is a pseudo-force,....
>
[hanson]
Potter, you too are such a pseudo-force when you take a shit
and/or when you talk shit... and it always stinks... ahahaha....
Now, Tom, say: "hanson makes a good point".... ahahaha...
>
[Tom to oye-weh-Zion Glaser]
> Maybe science (Or more correctly engineering) is your God.
>
No Potter, oye-weh-Zion Glaser's God is Israel. He is one of
those kikes who live in the US, but who do live by the belief of
-------- "Israel First, then maybe, just maybe, the USA" ------
"as can be seen" by/in oye-weh-Zion Glaser's above whining
to others... with his pants down which does not make him being
"loved by all", except by you now, Potter,... ahaha... AHAHAHA...
So, Tom, explain to Hebie, that no atheist would say "go figure"
and no atheist would say "bigoted' when got caught with his
pants down, like he just was... ahahahaha.... because, Herbie
stated in HIS own words that:
::B::"Go Figure" .... Jews use that term".
::B:: Being Jewish I know this is so very true.
::B:: "We do need the help of Israel to help us"
::B:: "I stuck up for Israel"
::B:: "I do know how every thing works,
::B:: and pass this information on"
::B:: "Why.. am I not loved by all?" Bert
>
Now then Bert and Tom, since you "know" and you would
like to be "loved", you will be so, AFTER you "pass on"
------ the answer to why ------
>
"...the USA, which is paying to Israel 3-7 Billion $$$US tax
money each year for the last 60 years, and an equal $$
amount to the ass-venters to placate and pacify them so
that they don't continue to kick Jew ass, begs the question:
==== What are all these BILLIONS of US tax-payer dollars
buying the American public, besides continuous terrorism,
mayhem and war where Jews are being connected to or
involved in ? --- What good or benefit has come in return to
the American taxpayers from Israel for all that tax money that
came off the tables from poor American families?"
------- answer that, godly Potter & oye-weh-Bert -------
[Tom]
> Some find refuge [yada, yada, yada and like you
and Hebie]... in neurosis and psychosis.
> I dare say that the best hierarchy in finding relief from
> unbearable pain is [ yada, yada, yada] neurosis and
> psychosis, in this order. [tailor made for you and Hebie]
>
> The bottom line is that religions serve several useful
> puposes, and if they diid not exist, at times people would
> have stress overload, and probably go into shock
> like opposums, etc.
>
[hanson]
Tom, did you just turn into one, or have you always been
a possum? ...ahahahaha... AHAHAHAHA......
You, Tom, being a history buff should have clearly seen
a long, long time ago that any
== Religion has always ONLY demonstrated to be
always nothing more than a mechanism used
** by the few to control, exploit and fuck the many"".
== Religion is a mechanism that is used by your
** "instigators to incite wars for profit and power"**
== Religion is **"opium for the masses"** said the Jews
Marx or Lenin, ...two of the instigators for war and
profit you hate the most (you oddly being a commie)
== Religion, in particular the 3 fucked religions, Judaism,
Xianity and Islam, all of them being a curse onto humanity,
being the evil spawns, ever since 6KY ago when Abe, the
Arab, gave birth to the criminal base for the sociopathy
of Monotheism, all 3 being the same unholy shits which have
only been useful to kill each others disciples and followers...
and to enslave or kill the ones who didn't believe in their
holy shit... Are you that stupid NOT to see that, Tom?
What do you think is going on now in the Middle East?
Now Tom, (pray, pay & repent) & repeat, Tom... ahahahaha...
Thanks for the laughs... ahahaha... ahahanson
hanson
wrote in message news:21480-450...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...
> Tom I'm thankful that I need no Gods. 9/11 had the last words on the
> p-lanes that crashed "ALLAH I'll get all on Earth. Bert
>
Herbie, Herbie, Herbie, your whining to others with your
pants down does not make you "loved by all"... and Hebie,
just were.... ahahahaha.... because, Herbie, YOU have
::B::"Go Figure" .... Jews use that term".
::B:: Being Jewish I know this is so very true.
::B:: "We do need the help of Israel to help us"
::B:: "I stuck up for Israel"
::B:: "I do know how every thing works,
::B:: and pass this information on"
::B:: "Why.. am I not loved by all?" Bert
>
to be "loved", you will be so, AFTER you "pass on"
------ the answer to why ------
>
"...the USA, which is paying to Israel 3-7 Billion $$$US tax
money each year for the last 60 years, and an equal $$
amount to the ass-venters to placate and pacify them so
that they don't continue to kick Jew ass, begs the question:
==== What are all these BILLIONS of US tax-payer dollars
buying the American public, besides continuous terrorism,
mayhem and war where Jews are being connected to or
involved in ? --- What good or benefit has come in return to
the American taxpayers from Israel for all that tax money that
came off the tables from poor American families?"
------- answer that, oye-weh-Bert -------
hanson
Jeff…Relf
Why is the USA paying to Israel 3-7 Billion $$$US tax money each year
for the last 60 years as well as an equal $$ amount to
What are all these BILLIONS of US tax-payer dollars
buying the American public, besides continuous terrorism,
mayhem and war where Jews are being connected to or involved in ?
What good or benefit has come in return to
the American taxpayers from Israel for all that tax money that
came off the tables from poor American families ?
Because U.S.A. Inc. is the land _Lord_ of the Mideast's oil fields and relics;
and that's just what landlords do,
...they lay down the law, evict whomever ( from the planet ) and collect rent.
Jeff…Relf
My erstwhile friend, Patinha, picked up her worst habits at church.
The kids there were making meth, stealing cars, etc.
Vices are just different ways to burn out ( and all things burn out ).
They're ok ( to a point ), because they're a celebration of life;
but which ones get condoned ( e.g. sex, gasoline and reproduction ) and
which ones don't ( e.g. smoking ) is a _Soft_ ( pseudorandom ) science.
Each is imprisoned in a virtual casino... the house always wins in the end.
Like you're both God _And_ Satan to
the animals and plants you raise to feed yourself
( i.e. like you punish and reward them, to control them ),
you're a God_Satan's crop and a God_Satan to your crop.
My land _Lord_ is my most immediate god,
closely followed by my boss and the state.
The universe is _Eternally_ dissipating, I posit, in accordance with
the standard model ( Quantum Mechanics ) and thermodynamics;
so the cosmos is the ultimate God, as it consumes all.
What's more _Real_ than that ? God ( a.k.a. Satan ) lives.
NegEntropy ( i.e. " life " ), as Erwin Schrödinger first coined it,
was to mean " ignitable, consumable, Gibbs Free Energy ".
To this I add:
Like a lit match, consumption consumes you; to live fast is to die fast.
Although control is the goal, it's a mirage.
Einstein's metaphysical philosophies ( i.e. his Logical positivism )
are not directly related to experimental uncertainties such as
the uncertainty principle. See: WikiPedia.ORG/wiki/Logical_positivism
In the following quote from Einstein, he argues that time is pseudo-directional
( i.e. he argues that time is spatial )
because, just as a dice toss is known to be pseudorandom
( i.e. like it's known to be causal ), all randomness is pseudorandom.
But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation.
The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past.
EinsteinAndReligion.COM/sciencereligious.html
and:
People like us, who believe in physics, know that
the distinction between past, present, and future is
only a stubbornly persistent illusion.
SpeakingOfFaith.PublicRadio.ORG/programs/einsteinsgod/unheardcuts.shtml
See also:
WikiPedia.ORG/wiki/Block_time
Philsci-Archive.Pitt.EDU/archive/00002408/
Title: Is There an Alternative to the Block Universe View ?
Urgrue.ORG/lib/mysterious-flow.html
Title: That Mysterious Flow
Journal: Scientific American, Sep 2002
Plato.Stanford.EDU/entries/time/#8
Title: 4D View of Time
Consequently, Einstein felt that
physical processes determined absolutely everything, including man's desires.
For example, he said:
I do not believe in freedom of the will. Schopenhauer's words:
“ Man can do what he wants,
but he cannot will what he wills ”
accompany me in all situations throughout my life and reconcile me with
the actions of others even if they are rather painful to me.
This awareness of the lack of freedom of will preserves me from
taking too seriously myself and my fellow men as
acting and deciding individuals and from losing my temper.
EinsteinAndReligion.COM/credo.html
See also: WikiPedia.ORG/wiki/Physicalism
Einstein thought good theorists are be Logical Positivists,
pushing the border between physics and metaphysics:
I believe that every true theorist is a kind of tamed metaphysicist,
no matter how pure a " positivist " he may fancy himself.
Leiwen.Tripod.COM/eingra.htm
While Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation is
intentionally mute on metaphysical issues,
Einstein thought today's theories and technologies are not the last word;
...if the past is any indicator, theories and technologies will improve.
Einstein's ability to find once hidden causalities
decades before they were empirically proven exemplifies his Logical positivism.
For example, decades before it could be empirically verified,
his General Relativity explained exactly how
a clock with 10 ^ -16 second accuracy ticks faster
with a minute increase in altitude. See:
PhysicsToday.ORG/vol-59/iss-3/p10.html
hanson
news:Jeff_Relf_200...@Cotse.NET...
and is a facliltaotor for the Zuionists.... ahahahaha....
>
[Jerk]
> Hi Ha_Ha_Hanson, You continually ask:
>
::: Why is the USA paying to Israel 3-7 Billion $$$US tax money
::: each year > for the last 60 years as well as an equal $$
::: amount to the ass-venters to placate and pacify them so that
::: they don't continue to kick Jew ass ?
>
::: What are all these BILLIONS of US tax-payer dollars buying
::: war where Jews are being connected to or involved in ?
::: == What good or benefit has come in return to the American
::: taxpayers from Israel for all that tax money that came off the
::: tables from poor American families ?
>
> Because U.S.A. Inc. is the land _Lord_ of the Mideast's oil
> fields and relics; and that's just what landlords do,
> ...they lay down the law, evict whomever ( from the planet )
> and collect rent.
>
What does that have to do with my question, Jerk? Besides,
Jeff, your Anti-American remarks are sick, truly demented.
ahahahahaha..... Jeff, don't be such an excruciating moron
and act as a facilitator and apologist for the Zionists to
encourage them to demand even more aid from the US.
OTOH, from a fucking welfare case, like you are, who doesn't
pay taxes nor his child support one cannot expect an answer
other than what you just gave. -- Zionists love goyims like you
since now more aid will go to them and less to you, Jerk...
You are fucking yourself, Jerk... AHAHAHAHA.... ahahaha...
Jeff-Jerk, I didn't ask what the US is doing in the ME... I asked:
::: Why is the USA paying to Israel 3-7 Billion $$$US tax money
::: each year > for the last 60 years as well as an equal $$
::: amount to the ass-venters to placate and pacify them so that
::: they don't continue to kick Jew ass ?
>
::: What are all these BILLIONS of US tax-payer dollars buying
::: the American public, besides continuous terrorism, mayhem &
::: war where Jews are being connected to or involved in ?
::: == What good or benefit has come in return to the American
alice
> in an effort to reduce their pain.
>
> In other words, they navigate in time and space
> to find relief.
>
> Some find refuge in science,
> but most find refuge in religion, family, friends, strangers, mind control,
> neurosis and psychosis.
> I dare say that the best hierarchy in finding relief from
> unbearable pain is
> mind control
truth, if yes, what i do know meanwhile, it is very, very important,
and why do i post this here, well: BECAUSE I DO LOOK FOR EXPLANATION
FROM SCIENCE.
hello, my name is Monika, i'm 42, living in Antwerp, Belgium.
About one year ago, i realized suddenly something very strange was
going on, it started with my computer wich was
clearly showing things that were not usual, and desperedly i started to
repair it somehow, during that first period, i
thought of a computervirus or some hacking tool, slowly i realized
aswell this "hacking", was not just messing up
things, but very precise, showing on my screen what i was supposed to
see.
Finally after my mail and personal pictures disapeared, and nobody else
seemed to understand that really something
strange was going on on my computer, i wrote a mail to some mailadres
(of the program maker of one pcprogram
appeared, hoping i would reach the people doing this .
I cried and was begging to let my stuff on my pc ect...
finally i recieved an answer:"glad i can finally tell you, this is a
test..."
I stared surprised on my screen, a test i wondered, what for.?
This phrase, was followed with a question about networks, the question
was put together with what i put in my own
mails, i read slowly and highly surprised the long question, summerized
from my own mailconversations with others
about the pc, and even more confused i became, seeing no answer in fact
was possible on that question, only the
grammer gave that impression, so it looked like it was not just a
computer puzzle, aswell i could not understand a test
of some computerstuff, would have reason to take my private things
away, and it looked much more like a test of my
own behaving, in fact a psycholigical test, fooling me infact with
technical questions about networks...
i felt cheated, got very scared, didnt understand who was doing this,
what kind of test this could be.
At that moment i only knew i could communicate directly writing on my
computer questions, getting answers over tv,
radio and gsm, i was rapidly changing moods, from laughter, to deep
sadness and enormious fear, and finally a
confirmation came again direcly on my computer, :"those things they are
dangerous, they could have enormous
pollitical consequences..."
It slowly became completely clear that my moods aswell, were a part of
the game, i panicked, and let pass all kind of
sensations over me, pain of a tooth, vomitting, sexual pleasure, al
kinds of emotions, fine mixed up to an exact coctail
of totally different perception of my envirement, i did not know what
whas real anymore, i wonderdered who was
behind it, searching it in friends , my mother, and realizing nobody i
knew was behind it, my mother saw my acting
strangly, looking for my father who died five years ago, i was even
thinking he was the one joking me....
I do understand my mother is convinced i had a psychotic-like
experience, but it hurts very much though, i can't even
ask her comfort, she simply don't want to hear anything about what
happenend convinced it could not have
happened..., it is simply impossible
I wondered desperedly how long this was going on, having the feeling it
explained some other things from before, but
not being able to logically update with my own thinking 42 years of my
life in one sudden moment, this experience is
the most tortering, i was fully aware, of the fact my entire thinking
failed to understand what was going on, and that is
aswell in fact the most interesting part of it, but aswell the cruel
one, the past is completely different than in my
memories was linked in terms like cause and consequence, and suddenly
all seemed different, but the thinking ability
of a human is clearly too slow to update and relink those facts,
especiallyl aswell in the longterm memorie, that feeling
is awfull and something that normally humans can only know
theoretically (that thinking is a much slowlier process
then reacting, it does not giud behaviour, feeling guides behaviour),
but feeling it happening is amazing, but terrifying.
In the beginning nothing makes sense anymore, even suicide is a
possible solusion, but hope to understand finally
what went on, not believing somebody could do something like this to
destroy my person, i kept as strong i could, for
months pretty confusing and bizarr situations were created around me,
and when some time passed by, the feeling of
not understanding anything faded away, and i could start to draw
conclusions.
The main conclusion ofcourse was that mind manipulating technologie
does really exist, and not just causing over all
symptoms, but very finetuned causing so many sensations, a million of
nuances, of things i felt before, aswell things i
never felt before, it was like trip of alice in wonderland, but aswell
realizing a painfull truth, this really went on, and not
just now, but in the past, as far i can guess out of my own experience,
end sixties, begin seventies.
A very clear memorie as a small girl, seeing on a walk trough the park
in my head some 3D picture of twisted wires,
hair or wool getting thin and getting thik again, getting big and
getting small. this picture was accompagnied with
feeling sick in a strange way i never would forget, it took just a few
seconds. Technical abilities were i suppose not
enough refind for 3D, this problem ten years after did not anymore
exist and 3d pictures apear in colour realistic live
experiences, dreams even while awake. It is like real, and i do now
understand how convincing ufo experiences
could be and how terrifiing real, letting people with a big part of
questions, not realizing the experience was completely
brain simulated.
they (the people who are doing this) did aswell explain how it is
possible they can do it, they explained me more about
electricity, electromagnetism, basic chemistrie and biology, and
several connection between them, how rubbing two
pieces of kwarts and seeing lightflashes, polarity of molecules, how it
works in celmembranes, about spectometrie and
more of all that.
I did not know some things at all especialli the connection with
elektricity so clear, and it would be strange it would
dicover part of this with having a hallucination, so i hope somebody
wil not draw imidiatly conclusions, but wonder if
this really could be really happening, who realizes that this story,
how absurd it sounds, it could be correct, someone
who would ask more details about what happened, and trie to find out
that the total story is too much coherent to be
some hallucination,
Dreams ofcourse are something incredible, not only just dreams by
stimulating some dream area, but dreams with a
clear defined content, like some movie playded over during sleep, those
dreams are very vivid, they all somehow are
connected with very deep human emotions, about life, birt and dead, and
ofcourse the instinct of sexuallity ruling
these acts, compromizing dreams, about violence, incest, war and big
ethic questions, those dreams are
accompagnied with feelings sometimes, or pain that seems real, and most
people i know, they had those dreams
themselves, but can not imagine it was once electronically induced-dig
in your own very deep personal memories
and you will find them aswell, it looks like your own dreams simply)
sleepdeprivation for days or just falling asleep,
hartbeat with trilling movies and getting sentimental over others,
feelings like compassion, rage, and even feelling very
deeply in love, euforic, with music getting shivers, so it seemes that
this is the current state of the art today of mind
manipulation technology .
After looking for information around on the net and some books, i know
now im not wrong in the fact that this
technology is for more then thirty years in use, is develloped and
refined during normal life on people without their
knowledge, and if you try to explain, they dont and cant believe their
own fears and dreams are not really theirs,
because adding emotoions to one's life for so long become normal
emotions associated with your own, with your own
identity, That is the most surprising part of it: even after you know
somebody makes you feel and do things,stil it feels as
if it is under command of your own will, movements, needs and
exitement, not even your own taste you can trust in
whatever you like, because they make you simply like other things.
Now im desperadly looking for contact with people who do meanawhile
aswell know this is going on, and that is the
reason for this mail, on wich i hope for some reaction, it was a cruel
way to get to know i'm in fact so much different
than i thought, it feels releave aswell as it feels terror.
I hope very much to find more people in my situation, i know there are,
some stories i found confirm exactly what i
experienced aswell, but most those people are not anymore to find over
the internet, so i hope this way somebody will
read my story and take contact with me.
Friendly greetings from belgium, Monika.
msn: monika...@gmail.com
mail: monika...@telenet.be
icq:220-647-559
Please realize well the reasons you dont believe this, realize well
those reasons are not rational, but purely intuitif
because you can't imagine, the same way like tv or gsm once was
unimaginable.
tdp...@gmail.com
Here is my take on this:
1. The double-branched hippocampus in the brain is a correlator.
2. During the waking state the hippocampus constantly monitors sensory
inputs,
and compares the data to hardwired (Instinct) and memory (learned)
data.
The scanning can be visualized as the arc paths of a plasma lamp.
To visualize this action do a Google search on "plasma lamp".
3. When high correlations with pleasure or pain occur,
the hippocampus activates the glands
to prepare the body for approach or avoidance activity,
and the presence of high levels of glandular secretions
in the brain fixes the present sensory input as memory.
The intensity of the memory is a function of the level of secretions.
To visualize this action do a Google search on "Stereolithography".
The difference being that a laser "fixes" one point,
and when secretions interact with activated brain cells,
a membrane surface is "fixed".
4. In the resting state, when there is little sensory input,
the two branches of the hippocampus semi-randomly scan
areas of stored data (Memory), and report on any correlations found
by activating appropriate levels of secretions.
Some correlations result in "eureka" situations,
some in replay of old memories, some in fear, etc.
5. The memory "membrane surface" in a normally functioning brain
is relatively fixed in space, but is nominally modulated by
variations in the environment (Electric and magnetic fields, etc.)
and in the speed of the conducting paths in the brain.
6. If the memory "membrane surface is very fixed in space,
and the conducting paths speeds are very fixed in speed,
the person loops on whatever sets of memories happen to be
active at that time. This can result in manic-compulsive
memories and reactions, and other compulsive reactions.
7. Certain chemicals, such as LSD,
and certain secretions in the body,
disturb the normal scanning by the hippocampus,
and this results in all kinds of faulty correlations.
In other words, the sensory inputs at the time
of high intensity pleasure and pain, are shifted,
and false correlations occur.
(The pleasure and pain do no match up with
the sensory inputs at the time the memories were fixed.)
8. To return the system to more normal scanning patterns,
it would be necessary to find out what chemicals or secretions
are causing the hippocampus to malfunction,
and to correct the condition.
No doubt some people like to have their brains
break out of the normal conducting paths sometimes,
and of course, in the case of compulsive memories and activities,
it would be desirable to break out of the loops.
That will be two cents please.
Double-A
What? You don't believe that the international Jewish conspiracy had
taken over her computer in order to brainwash her?
Double-A
tdp...@gmail.com
> taken over her computer in order to brainwash her?
>
> Double-A
Double-A raises a good point
when he points out that Jews have a long history
of instigating conflict and war
for power and wealth,
and that they instigate primarily by using media they control.
As can be seen by using the new Google newspaper archive search,
the New York Times and the Washington Post,
were very active in instigating the Spanish-American War,
the Class Wars of the 1900's, and
they were trying to instigate the Religious Wars of the 2000's
until it became too obvious what they were doing,
and they began to "shuck and jive".
(Just as they began to "shuck and jive"
after FDR died, and Truman and Congress
began to take a hard stand against the people who
were instigating the Class Wars of the 1900's.)
Let us hope that the War-for-profit gang never gains control
of Google and uses it to instigate their wars.
I am pleased to see that Double-A
is still a faithful reader of my posts,
and I trust that he has gained a more world balanced view
from reading my posts.