This is contradictory -- but maybe I confuse something or misunderstood
the statement. Are photons open or closed strings? Does this depend on the
specific version of string theory? In fact, I'd like to have a sort of
mental image of a photon in string theory. Is there a way to picture
something that is precise enough to be helpful?
jon
> In one of his talks, Robert Dijkgraf said that closed strings behave as
> gravitons at low energy, and that open strings manifest themselves as...
Dear Jon,
in the conventional heterotic string models, all known particles are
closed strings. Moreover, gravitons are closed strings in all models -
because they are always responsible for the geometry of the whole
spacetime - i.e. they cannot be confined.
In the new brane world scenarios, all other particles except for gravitons
can be open strings stretched between the branes. This is helpful e.g. in
the "old large dimensions" models where it explains the weakness of
gravity - gravity is diluted in the large extra dimensions, but everything
else (such as photons) is concentrated on the brane.
There many other types of models where some particles arise from open
strings, some particles arise from singularities, and so on.
These different realizations of a photon are, of course, compatible with
Hawking radiation. Photons are always allowed to move anywhere in the 3+1
dimensions we know; the only ambiguity is whether they are allowed to
move in the additional dimensions. Because they can move anywhere in the
space we know, they can also be emitted by a radiating black hole.
If you would like to have one mental picture of a photon and other
particles - be sure that you're not the only one. I would also love to
have a unique model describing Nature correctly. Unfortunately, string
theory is too rich as of today and we have many potential realizations of
the known physics. Gravitons are always closed strings, as long as there
are any strings at all, but everything else can be both, depending on the
model.
Best wishes
Lubos
______________________________________________________________________________
E-mail: lu...@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/
eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/496-8199 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to keep the discussion concrete, I'd like to focus on photons only.
Since there are many options, and all seem to have some truth, let us take one.
I am not interested (for the moment) in electrons or gravitons - just photons.
Let us take the version where photons are strings between branes, for example.
How do we have to imagine the motion of a photon? When a photon moves in a
light beam, how does the string (and the branes) move?
In simple terms, is the string perpendicular to the motion, or along it?
jon
> Let us take the version where photons are strings between branes, for example.
> How do we have to imagine the motion of a photon? When a photon moves in a
> light beam, how does the string (and the branes) move?
>
> In simple terms, is the string perpendicular to the motion, or along it?
Dear Jon, not only photons in braneworld scenarios, but *all* strings
everywhere in string theory always oscillate in all dimensions (which
usually means "all ten of dimensions") regardless of the motion of the
resulting photon. It would not be a critical string theory (critical means
"with the right number of spacetime dimensions, and therefore canceling
conformal anomaly") if the generic points on the string were moving in a
limited number of dimensions.
The only confined points can be the endpoints. In your case, the endpoints
are restrictd to oscillate within the worldvolume of the branes - which
includes the familiar 3+1 dimensions, and perhaps (but not necessarily)
a subset of the additional dimensions. But within the worldvolume of the
branes, again, even the endpoints are oscillating in *all* directions,
regardless of the motion of the center of mass (of your photon).
Another question is how the strings and their endpoints move in classical
string theory, which is essentially equivalent to the time evolution of
the "zero modes", especially in a particular classical solution. Yes, if
you consider a physical, transversely polarized photon (e.g.
x-polarization in a z-moving photon), the classical mode on the string
that is excited is the x-mode, which adds sinusoidal oscillations to the
string that are directed in the x-direction, and are therefore
perpendicular to the direction of motion. So the classical, average shape
of the string vibrates in this x-direction only - and this would be true
both for closed-string-photons and open-string-photons. But don't forget
that quantum mechanics implies that the string and everything else has
nonzero oscillations in all conceivable directions. Because of the
uncertainty principle, you cannot have a vanishing coordinate as well as
the same component of the velocity of a point along the string.
> Jon <pdkgpzn...@mailinator.com> wrote
> > Are photons open or closed strings?
> I believe that the answer to this question is, for a string theorist, "Yes".
As Lubos has pointed out, the U(1) need not come from the open string
sector. But in recent times, with intersecting barne models etc, this is
maybe the case which is receiving more attention.
> Another question is how the strings and their endpoints move in classical
> string theory, which is essentially equivalent to the time evolution of
> the "zero modes", especially in a particular classical solution. Yes, if
> you consider a physical, transversely polarized photon (e.g.
> x-polarization in a z-moving photon), the classical mode on the string
> that is excited is the x-mode, which adds sinusoidal oscillations to the
> string that are directed in the x-direction, and are therefore
> perpendicular to the direction of motion. So the classical, average shape
> of the string vibrates in this x-direction only - and this would be true
> both for closed-string-photons and open-string-photons. But don't forget
> that quantum mechanics implies that the string and everything else has
> nonzero oscillations in all conceivable directions. Because of the
> uncertainty principle, you cannot have a vanishing coordinate as well as
> the same component of the velocity of a point along the string.
Can one say the following:
In classical string theory, one can imagine
a photon in a beam along the z direction, polarized in the x direction,
as a string somehow moving along z, and oscillating in x direction.
The tails of the string "oscillate wildly" and are barely noticeable
(at usual low energy).
In x and y direction there is some fuzzyness, to agree with the uncertainty
principle. The same in z direction.
If that is correctly rendered, what happens during interference of a
photon going through a double split?
What exactly happens when the photon is "split" and
when it interferes where the two "parts" come back together?
jon
> Can one say the following:
>
> In classical string theory, one can imagine
> a photon in a beam along the z direction, polarized in the x direction,
> as a string somehow moving along z, and oscillating in x direction.
> The tails of the string "oscillate wildly" and are barely noticeable
> (at usual low energy).
Yes, it is roughly correct, I think.
> In x and y direction there is some fuzzyness, to agree with the uncertainty
> principle. The same in z direction.
You would have to specify what exactly is fuzzy. Some quantities are
fuzzy, some quantities are not.
> If that is correctly rendered, what happens during interference of a
> photon going through a double split?
> What exactly happens when the photon is "split" and
> when it interferes where the two "parts" come back together?
I don't know why this question is related to the previous question on the
link between polarization and the direction of oscillation.
Nevertheless interference experiments in string theory work just like
interference in previous quantum theories. The internal structure of the
particle involves a string, but the external behavior is virtually
unchanged. The photon (a vibrating string) has a wavefunction (for its
center-of-mass degrees of freedom), and this wavefunction behaves just
like in quantum mechanics before string theory.
If you discover that a car has a motor inside, it does not change the
rules how it moves on the roads.
> Are photons open or closed strings?
The answer is morally speaking, both. Because there is in general no
un-ambiguous notion whether a given degree of freedom arises from
an open or closed string.
The important point is that generically, various models are not
just different "machines" to achieve gauge symmetry (or chiral
fermions, or other things for that matter) - they are just different
descriptions, or parametrizations of _one and the same thing_.
Because of duality, certain constructions (say of gauge symmetry)
can be equivalent to each other, in the sense that there is no
possible physical measurement that would allow to distinguish between
them.
For example, in heterotic string language, a gauge boson in four
dimensions may arise in a certain Calabi-Yau compactification; this
is a closed string formulation. This theory is generically dual
to a type II string compactification with D-branes, where gauge
symmetry arises via open strings stretched between the D-branes
(there are explicitly known examples for such dualities). These theories
being dual to each other, there is no physical distinction
between the two representations of the gauge field.
The same logic applies to all sorts of intersecting brane constructions,
flux compactifications, type II string-, M-, F-theory constructions
on various manifolds. Generically, these "different" constructions
are just different ways to represent or parametrize the same physics
(though it is often so that one parametrization is better suited
for describing the same physics than another one, depending on the
region of parameter space one is considering). In general there
is no unambiguous notion of what the underlying background geometry,
or string theory is; these notions are not well defined, except in
certain weak coupling limits (where there exist formulations
in terms of string world-sheets, and thus in terms of perturbation theory).
> I don't know why this question is related to the previous question on the
> link between polarization and the direction of oscillation.
>
> Nevertheless interference experiments in string theory work just like
> interference in previous quantum theories. The internal structure of the
> particle involves a string, but the external behavior is virtually
> unchanged. The photon (a vibrating string) has a wavefunction (for its
> center-of-mass degrees of freedom), and this wavefunction behaves just
> like in quantum mechanics before string theory.
My question was wether the string model allows a visualization of
interference.This is indeed an additional question.
I had the -- possibly naive -- idea that the usual quantum
mechanical description of light might be only an "unsharp" image of a
vibrating and oscillating string. In that case, string theory would
help to provide a "mental image" for photons that might be useful even
in simple quantum theory. (And possibly the same for matter
wave functions.) Is there a chance for this to be true?
jon
jon
"R.X." <redlu...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<7b5bf479.04072323...@posting.google.com>...
> Jon <pdkgpzn...@mailinator.com> wrote
>
> > Are photons open or closed strings?
>
> The answer is morally speaking, both.
[...]
> My question was wether the string model allows a visualization of
> interference.This is indeed an additional question.
> I had the -- possibly naive -- idea that the usual quantum
> mechanical description of light might be only an "unsharp" image of a
> vibrating and oscillating string.
No, this is not the case. The center of mass of any string is a point and is
described by a "wavefunction" whose wave-like character has nothing to do
with the oscillations of the string. String theory does not "explain"
quantum mechanics, but takes it for granted.
For more on how to understand states of string at an elementary level see
http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=3E973BB4.273CFACD%40uni-essen.de
and
http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/archives/000334.html .
> What is the answer with the following conditions:
> the usual low-energy viewpoint we have in everyday life is assumed,
> the ususal smaller than one coupling constant for electrodynamics,
> flat background, and usual perturbation theory?
> Are photons open strings in this case?
>
Yes and no - there are both open and closed string models for describing
U(1) gauge symmetry, at weak coupling.
> If you discover that a car has a motor inside, it does not change the
> rules how it moves on the roads.
Hmm hmm comparisions are always dangereus. Suppose for instance a
single vertical engine and a car on a ice skating floor. The car will
turn to preserve angular momentum.
[Moderator's note: I try to make analogies that are not dangerous, unlike
your situation. ;-) LM]
Univ Zaragoza, PhD Science------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The question was simply how a single string representing a photon,
which we represented in a given way (see previous posts) in
free space, looks when the photon passes a double slit.
One must be able to answer this in string theory.
If in free space a photon looks like an short oscillating wavetrain with
fuzzy ends, there must be a picture about how the state looks when the photon
passes a double slit. The diffference between the situations
is simply that the potential is not zero.
The ability of string theory to provide a model for a free photon
implies that it is also able to provide an image for a double slit
situation. I just am looking for that image. I think
it would interest many others as well!
jon
> The question was simply how a single string representing a photon,
> which we represented in a given way (see previous posts) in
> free space, looks when the photon passes a double slit.
> One must be able to answer this in string theory.
Let me say it again: The internal oscillation of the string is what makes it
look like a photon, a graviton, an electron, etc. This oscillation is not
the same as the oscillations of any wavefunction. In the everyday limit like
that of double slit experiments only the center-of-mass motion of the string
is observed and it behaves just like any other point particle. It is
described by a wavefunction which may exhibit self-interference.
[Moderator's note: Further disucssion of the basics of quantum mechanics
are off-topic for sci.physics.strings and should be taken to some other
newsgroup. -usc]