waves move mass

[holog]

how is it possible for waves to move a mass?

holog

[Tom Roberts]

On 6/1/12 6/1/12 2:08 AM, holog wrote:
> how is it possible for waves to move a mass?

Waves are any phenomenon that satisfies a wave-like equation.

The most common type, such as waves on the ocean or sound in air, is a specific
kind of periodic traveling motion of a medium. As the medium itself is moving,
any "mass" that couples to the medium can be moved by it, via the force between
medium and object. For instance, a boat responds to ocean waves because of the
buoyant force acting on the boat; your eardrum responds to sound waves in air
because of the pressure force the air exerts on it.

Light is a different type of wave -- it apparently satisfies a wave equation,
but it is not clear what the medium is, as all experimental attempts to identify
it have failed. The key to this is that this is APPROXIMATE, and the underlying
quantum theory, QED, models light as "particles" called photons (excitations in
the quantum field), and it is their PHASE that is "waving"; this needs no "medium".

In non-relativistic Quantum Mechanics, particles are yet another type of wave
(satisfying a different wave equation). Again it is not clear what the medium
is; in this case it is their probability amplitudes that are "waving", and again
no "medium" is required.


Tom Roberts

[holog]

On Jun 1, 5:31 pm, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 6/1/12 6/1/12 2:08 AM, holog wrote:
>

> > how is it possible for waves to move a mass?
>

is "time" a prerequisite for waves to form?

holog

[Tom Roberts]

On 6/6/12 6/6/12 7:00 PM, holog wrote:
> On Jun 1, 5:31 pm, Tom Roberts<tjroberts...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Waves are any phenomenon that satisfies a wave-like equation.

>>[...[

>
> is "time" a prerequisite for waves to form?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Certainly all mainstream theories of physics have time as a coordinate. And more
to the point, every "wave-like" equation has derivatives with respect to both
space and time -- that is the essence of what we mean by "wave".

So I suspect the answer is: yes. But this involves me guessing what you mean.


Tom Roberts

[J. J. Lodder]

holog <ho...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> how is it possible for waves to move a mass?

This for example is what you mean?
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Chladni>

Jan

[raymond]

Also,
if your talking about acoustics, there was a lot of research done for
levitation within controlled
closed environments. it depends mostly on the amplitude you put on
your pressure wave if the object
is heavy and the frequency defines the type of dynamics it will have.
EM basics.

when it comes to moving things with beams, there is a lot of
speculation but the future of
this type of research can go hand by hand with acoustic research.

r.y

[Ron Capik]

Moving things with beams of light was accomplished back in the 70's
at Bell Labs by Art Ashkin. Check out:
< http://www.bell-labs.com/user/feature/archives/ashkin/ >
Steve Chu got a Nobel prize for his extension of the work.

[[Mod. note -- See also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_tweezers
-- jt]]

....or maybe I'm missing something.
==

Later...
Ron Capik
--

[holog]

On Jun 8, 9:28 pm, Ron Capik <r.ca...@verizon.net> wrote:
[[Mod. note -- 27 excessively-quoted lines snipped here. -- jt]]

> Moving things with beams of light was accomplished back in the 70's
> at Bell Labs by Art Ashkin. Check out:
> <http://www.bell-labs.com/user/feature/archives/ashkin/>
> Steve Chu got a Nobel prize for his extension of the work.
>
> [[Mod. note -- See also
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_tweezers
> -- jt]]
>
> ....or maybe I'm missing something.
> ==
>
> Later...
> Ron Capik
> --

the lhc works by magnetism (electro motive force), it creates a wave
so that protons and neutrons can be "accelerated in velocity" , the
medium can transport an object that is not of its consistency
"mass" ,

as "c" the speed of light is dependent on the density through which it
travels, so it is with particles whose constituents do so.


holog

[Rich L.]

On Monday, June 25, 2012 10:16:15 AM UTC-5, holog wrote:
>
> the lhc works by magnetism (electro motive force), it creates a wave
> so that protons and neutrons can be "accelerated in velocity" , the
> medium can transport an object that is not of its consistency
> "mass" ,
>
> as "c" the speed of light is dependent on the density through which it
> travels, so it is with particles whose constituents do so.
>
>
> holog

In almost all particle accelerators, the particles are accelerated by electric fields, not magnetic fields. The magnetic fields in synchrotrons, like the LHC, are there merely to turn the beam into a circle so that we don't need a straight pipe stretching from the earth to the moon.

There are no accelerators that act on neutrons. Neutrons have no charge, and negligible magnetic moment, and would be very difficult to manipulate in any way.

Rich L.

[holog]

>
> There are no accelerators that act on neutrons.
>

> Rich L.

the lhc has been designed to accelerate lead nuclei which contain
neutrons.

holog

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article
<ca529a09-cad4-49f6...@x39g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>,

holog <ho...@bellsouth.net> writes:

> > There are no accelerators that act on neutrons.
> >

> > Rich L.
>
> the lhc has been designed to accelerate lead nuclei which contain
> neutrons.

Right, but there have long been accelerators for heavy nuclei. There is
an entire institute, the GSI (which is an abbreviation for something
which translates as the Society for Heavy-Ion Research) in Darmstadt,
devoted to this. Since neutrons have no net electric charge, they
cannot be accelerated by electric fields as in particle accelerators.

[Rich L.]

Y

Yes, but they accelerate the neutrons because they are attached to the positively charged protons. It is really the protons that are being accelerated, the neutrons are just along for the ride.

Rich L.