Quroa: Is Venus only visible during the equinox?

[thor stoneman]

dfdfdfdf

[thor stoneman]

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, thor stoneman wrote:
> dfdfdfdf
Also, in classical astronomy, Mercury and Venus are said to be orbiting the Sun between the Sun and the Earth but the dark side of the Earth (night) is always facing away from Mercury and Venus which proves Mercury and Venus both have orbital diameters larger than the Earth's orbital diameter since on May 23, 2023 Venus sets at 12:00 am and night last for nine hours not 12 hours.

[Paul Alsing]

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:33:52 PM UTC-7, thor stoneman wrote:

> Also, in classical astronomy, Mercury and Venus are said to be orbiting the Sun between the Sun and the Earth but the dark side of the Earth (night) is always facing away from Mercury and Venus which proves Mercury and Venus both have orbital diameters larger than the Earth's orbital diameter since on May 23, 2023 Venus sets at 12:00 am and night last for nine hours not 12 hours.

If it was true that Venus and Mercury had orbits larger than Earth's orbit then we would occasionally see them near midnight... but since that *never* happens in mid-latitudes then the opposite must be true. We can only see them for a few hours before dawn or after sunset when they are at or near their greatest elongation points...

http://astronomy.nmsu.edu/nicole/teaching/ASTR505/lectures/lecture08/slide09.html#:~:text=Quadrature%3A%20An%20elongation%20of%2090,the%20Earth%20and%20the%20Sun).

[Volney]

On 5/28/2023 4:33 PM, thor stoneman wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, thor stoneman wrote:
>> dfdfdfdf
> Also, in classical astronomy, Mercury and Venus are said to be orbiting the Sun between the Sun and the Earth but the dark side of the Earth (night) is always facing away from Mercury and Venus

No, the dark side of the earth is facing away from the sun, which is why
it's dark. Remember "facing away" from the sun may mean the sun is a
little below the horizon. In other words, right after sunset and right
before sunrise.

It's clear that Mercury and Venus can be above the horizon while the sun
is below the horizon. If the Venus-Sun-Earth angle is close to 90
degrees, Venus will appear in the sky a distance away from the sun, so
it can be visible after sunset/before sunrise. Draw a diagram to help.

Also Venus has phases (like the moon) visible through a telescope, and
its crescent phase could only happen if it is closer to the sun than the
earth is. (same is true for the crescent moon, it is closer to the sun
at that time)

[Simmon Zee]

Volney wrote:

> No, the dark side of the earth i̶s̶ f̶a̶c̶i̶n̶g̶ a̶w̶a̶y̶ f̶r̶o̶m̶ t̶h̶e̶ s̶u̶n̶, w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ i̶s̶ w̶h̶y̶
> i̶t̶'s̶ d̶a̶r̶k̶. Remember "facing away" from the sun may mean the sun is a

> little below the horizon. In other words, right after sunset and right
> before sunrise.

not true, you have light from sun even after sunset and before sunrise.
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[kellehe...@gmail.com]

There is just solar system research as the term 'astronomer' has been so devalued by experimental theorists and their hapless RA/Dec cronies that they can't enjoy the new partitioning of direct/retrograde motions of the faster-moving and slower-moving planets as seen from a moving Earth in a Sun-centred system.

The direct/retrograde motions of the slower-moving planets as seen from a faster-moving Earth use a stationary field of background stars that represented the Ptolemaic framework of Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo-

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

That is the Earth overtaking Jupiter and Saturn causing them to fall behind in view hence their retrograde motion where they seem to move backwards when it is the faster moving Earth creating the spectacle.

The direct/retrograde motions of the faster-moving Venus and Mercury seen from a slower-moving Earth requires an entirely different framework made possible by a tracking satellite with the Earth around the Sun-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2uCtot1aDg

The satellite looks in towards the inner solar system and sees Venus and Mercury pass behind the Sun ( direct motion) and then between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun ( retrograde motion).

The hapless people who follow Newton's attempt to create an alternative resolution for direct/retrograde motions by conjuring an absolute/relative space and motion into existence are lost souls in this matter-

"For to the Earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the Sun they are
always seen direct,..." Newton

Relativity, based on Newton's absolute/relative definitions above, is a nuisance contrivance when the real work is back with Copernicus and Kepler.

Maybe someday theorists will drop the pretence and research something useful instead of entertaining themselves at the expense of genuine solar system research.

Btw, none of the original astronomers got the direct/retrograde motions of Venus and Mercury right as they were chained to the Ptolemaic reference system

[thor stoneman]

What about at 12 am 5-23-2023 using a nine hour night.

[Paul Alsing]

I will rephrase my previous statement... neither Venus nor Mercury will ever culminate at midnight, which clearly indicates that they are inferior planets.

[Paul Alsing]

Oops, that should be *never* culminate at midnight...

[Volney]

In which timezone? Summer time/daylight saving time in effect? How far
in degrees from the longitude of the timezone? Or in other words, what
time is solar midnight for that location?

I'm not sure if north-south latitude has any effect. Venus is about as
far from the sun (in the sky seen from earth) as it gets around now.

[Paul Alsing]

Well, I am surprised to see that he is actually correct, which is why I modified my claim to say that Venus could never be seen to culminate near midnight. See this...

https://in-the-sky.org/whatsup_times.php

... which shows that on 5/23/2023, from Washington DC, for example, Venus set at 8 minutes after midnight. However, the fact that Venus and/or Mercury can never be seen to culminate near midnight clearly indicates that they are inferior planets. This is really a no-brainer. That they orbit closer to the Sun than the Earth is not in question.

[J. J. Lodder]

Paul Alsing <pnal...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 8:22:07?PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> > On 5/30/2023 3:58 PM, thor stoneman wrote:

> > > On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 12:04:47?PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> > >> On 5/28/2023 4:33 PM, thor stoneman wrote:

Well, if you go north far enough Venus may never set.
Which proves that....?

Jan